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MD/DC/VA Golfers - Twelve Monkeys Mental Divergence


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Man, that's such a good course. I love how 12 and 17 greens just "lay on the land" as the fancy lads say. 

 

Such a good looking course. 

 

I used to say that I liked Whiskey more than WM but not for the money. These days, I don't think that at all. 

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1 hour ago, TheCityGame said:

Man, that's such a good course. I love how 12 and 17 greens just "lay on the land" as the fancy lads say. 

 

Such a good looking course. 

 

I used to say that I liked Whiskey more than WM but not for the money. These days, I don't think that at all. 

 

Absolutely. I love Whiskey, but there is something about WM just takes it a notch higher. Definitely has a more "raw" yet refined look to it, while Whiskey seems more crafted. Other than 3 & 4 you don't really see any other houses/buildings and I like that you can see large portions of the holes at various points on the course. I also enjoy the fact that it is compact without being cramped (I know this will be debated). 

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1 hour ago, TheCityGame said:

@Puppetmaster are those pics all iPhone? 

 

They have a "depth" that looks like a short-focal length lens. 

 

The one of 17 (without Chief) is sweet. The one with Chief is sweet too, but it's degrees of sweetness. 

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1 hour ago, TheCityGame said:

Man, that's such a good course. I love how 12 and 17 greens just "lay on the land" as the fancy lads say. 

 

Such a good looking course. 

 

I used to say that I liked Whiskey more than WM but not for the money. These days, I don't think that at all. 

co-sign.  Fell off my radar for a good decade, but Ive now played it three times in the last year and I think WM is the best public track around. 

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8 minutes ago, Terphack said:

Any comments about Michelle Wie's commentary on the Masters? Needs some polish but some really insightful comments.

 

 

Like how insightful? Like awesome insightful or like totally sweet insightful? I mean, like, she certainly seems smart enough and is like um good enough of a golfer to do it. But that's just like... my opinion. 

 

Totally kidding. I have not heard her speak in about 10 years. I will tune in after the next 3 hr block of meetings. 

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2 hours ago, Terphack said:

Not sure if I have heard Christina Kim so I cannot compare the two. Wie, as a modern player and a woman makes comments from a professional viewpoint and because she is a woman, from outside of the boys club. I certainly prefer the commentary of the old guys who have competed at Augusta but Wie's insight is fresh. IMO

 

Which telecast is she on? I'm only watching online on the Masters site. 

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9 hours ago, FAbb said:

This situation came up the other day, more than once.  It's come up at the home course several times recently as well.  It came up at Worthington at least once a few weeks ago.  Sometimes you get a pin cut on or in very close proximity to a substantial slope.  You have a putt that is perpendicular or somewhere in the ballpark of perpendicular to it, but your straight line to the hole is on a gentler slope.  I wonder what the ideal strategy is in those scenarios, to average the fewest putts. 

 

The only way you have any chance of making the putt is to throw it way up onto the slope.  The downside is that inevitably that slope makes your putt gather speed as it approaches, and runs past the hole.  It seems like even if you could hit a putt with absolute perfect speed, and get your ball to nearly come to a stop at the crest of the slope, it would still just gather up speed from there and run by.

 

On the opposite end of the spectrum, let's say you just whack one directly at the hole, to avoid the slope as much as possible.  It won't have nearly as much speed as it approaches the hole, since you haven't thrown the putt way up onto the slope, but you're still going to miss the hole by a decent margin since you've played zero break.

 

Are either of those approaches ideal, and you just accept that you're going to 3-putt a lot in those scenarios?  Or is there a happy medium, where you play just enough break that you avoid getting a ball way up onto a slope where it's going to gather speed, but you've given yourself a little cushion direction-wise such that you don't miss the hole by a mile?

 

I'm going to cross post this in the instruction forum, to see what other wrx'ers think as well.

My old course we had a green severely sloped back to front especially the back left. Sometimes when the pin was back there and I was just about hole high right of the pin I would chip it. Chip it high and let the spin kill and trickle down. If I was too close to putt I would Pitt and pray. No way I was gonna make it or get it really close putting. A putt had to be hit hard to get there, slightly uphill so when you missed it went way down. Also, not hit hard enough it went way down. Just a brutal pin. Had to short and left. 

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End of season update...

 

Mid-October Outing went well. Convinced my dad to play Eagle's Landing Thursday, greens were absolutely pure. Rained out at Rum Pointe Friday after 12 holes, was able to score a raincheck and got 18 in Monday. Saturday at Lighthouse Sound was the most disappointing... 45 minute delay out of the gate and only got in 16 holes before it was dark. The course was in the worst condition of the 4, much worse than when I played a few years ago. Glen Riddle Man O' War was a blast. 

 

Finished up my lesson package with Jim at Arundel. Considering re-upping, but also looking into alternatives... I hear Andrew at Worthington Manor is good... but that is about 90 minutes from my house. Jim seems more suited to helping beginners get their bearings. I am a strong believer in tech... Mark Russo at Night Hawk is another option, but pricey. 

 

Had the opportunity to finally get fit for irons last week with Jim at 2nd Swing in Columbia... Turns out my XP 115 standard length and lie are no bueno for me... Was fit into C-Taper 130X +0.5" 1° Upright. While I was primarily looking to retro-fit, Jim suggested I hold out and buy something new (P770 or JPX SEL) the next time I can afford it, as my irons are getting older. I opted to order shafts on Golf Works, and will be installing them myself this weekend, along with some BBF&Co Ferrules that match my grips. I am in a weird spot where I am not a good enough ball striker to move into something more challenging than my JPX 850 Forgeds, and these heads have plenty of life left in them as I barely played until this year. Hoping this shaft update will give them a couple of years of life. Will be looking into driver/hybrid shafts, a new 3 wood, and a fitted putter in the spring, likely taking advantage of the Club Champion promo for the putter, and returning to 2nd Swing for the rest. 

 

Continuing to play and practice as much as possible, making use of my PDP membership at Compass Pointe. Less range, more golf. Have found that hitting off mats messes with my head, and my AoA. Recently broke 80 for the first time with a 79 that included 3 birdies, another PB. Finishing the year with an officially unofficial handicap of 8.8, with a goal for <5 for next season. 

 

On the practice front... I added a smart ball about a month ago, and I must say, my ball striking is through the roof. I've gained about a club of distance throughout my bag, partly due to effortless speed, and partly due to much better dynamic loft. Combined with religious use of the planemate, I can confirm that my armsy OTT tendencies are nearly dead and gone. 

 

I picked up the SuperSpeed Sticks for my birthday a few weeks ago, and have been working through the first protocol as often as I can remember. Results pending. 

 

Considering a G-Box due to both my admiration of Gankas and the influence he's had on my swing, as well as the positive review by the TXG guys. Have seen some negative reviews regarding its quality. Might make my own...

 

Does anyone have any recommendations of courses to play/join next year? I am happy with the course(s) and conditions, but I am looking for an overall higher caliber of golf (mostly in terms of people to play with). As I shoot low 80s usually, I've only played with a handful of solid golfers in the 70+ rounds I've played with this year over there.... damn I wish I lived close to Worthington Manor... that 5 year deal is SWEET 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, golfman1023 said:

End of season update...

 

Mid-October Outing went well. Convinced my dad to play Eagle's Landing Thursday, greens were absolutely pure. Rained out at Rum Pointe Friday after 12 holes, was able to score a raincheck and got 18 in Monday. Saturday at Lighthouse Sound was the most disappointing... 45 minute delay out of the gate and only got in 16 holes before it was dark. The course was in the worst condition of the 4, much worse than when I played a few years ago. Glen Riddle Man O' War was a blast. 

 

Finished up my lesson package with Jim at Arundel. Considering re-upping, but also looking into alternatives... I hear Andrew at Worthington Manor is good... but that is about 90 minutes from my house. Jim seems more suited to helping beginners get their bearings. I am a strong believer in tech... Mark Russo at Night Hawk is another option, but pricey. 

 

Had the opportunity to finally get fit for irons last week with Jim at 2nd Swing in Columbia... Turns out my XP 115 standard length and lie are no bueno for me... Was fit into C-Taper 130X +0.5" 1° Upright. While I was primarily looking to retro-fit, Jim suggested I hold out and buy something new (P770 or JPX SEL) the next time I can afford it, as my irons are getting older. I opted to order shafts on Golf Works, and will be installing them myself this weekend, along with some BBF&Co Ferrules that match my grips. I am in a weird spot where I am not a good enough ball striker to move into something more challenging than my JPX 850 Forgeds, and these heads have plenty of life left in them as I barely played until this year. Hoping this shaft update will give them a couple of years of life. Will be looking into driver/hybrid shafts, a new 3 wood, and a fitted putter in the spring, likely taking advantage of the Club Champion promo for the putter, and returning to 2nd Swing for the rest. 

 

Continuing to play and practice as much as possible, making use of my PDP membership at Compass Pointe. Less range, more golf. Have found that hitting off mats messes with my head, and my AoA. Recently broke 80 for the first time with a 79 that included 3 birdies, another PB. Finishing the year with an officially unofficial handicap of 8.8, with a goal for <5 for next season. 

 

On the practice front... I added a smart ball about a month ago, and I must say, my ball striking is through the roof. I've gained about a club of distance throughout my bag, partly due to effortless speed, and partly due to much better dynamic loft. Combined with religious use of the planemate, I can confirm that my armsy OTT tendencies are nearly dead and gone. 

 

I picked up the SuperSpeed Sticks for my birthday a few weeks ago, and have been working through the first protocol as often as I can remember. Results pending. 

 

Considering a G-Box due to both my admiration of Gankas and the influence he's had on my swing, as well as the positive review by the TXG guys. Have seen some negative reviews regarding its quality. Might make my own...

 

Does anyone have any recommendations of courses to play/join next year? I am happy with the course(s) and conditions, but I am looking for an overall higher caliber of golf (mostly in terms of people to play with). As I shoot low 80s usually, I've only played with a handful of solid golfers in the 70+ rounds I've played with this year over there.... damn I wish I lived close to Worthington Manor... that 5 year deal is SWEET 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How did you like the fitting at 2nd Swing?  Also how did it work, did you have to have a set of clubs for sale in mind, then they alter those? Is it only for new sticks?  I'm looking to do one here in the next month or two and was just curious. 

 

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Admittedly, it's the only fitting that I have ever been through. It seemed pretty good. The only downside is Indoor Trackman, but Club Champion has that too. There was some discussion about how the spin numbers wouldn't be correct because of this, and so we needed to get to what would be an otherwise low number, about 1000 fewer RPMs than what would be ideal outdoors. 

 

Jim, my fitter, used to work at CC... the indication I got is there's no reason to pay $350 there when 2nd Swing includes the fitting with purchase when it comes time to get a fully custom set. 

 

Only exception is CC has the PuttLab, and 2nd Swing does not... so I will be taking advantage of the CC Promo for a putter.

 

2nd Swing's "Tour Van" area has all the new stuff, a good selection of exotic shafts... saw Ventus, Graphite Designs, Fuji Pro, Paderson, etc.

 

Hit about 10 shots with a 3/4 swing, then about 10 more with a full swing... he started making up some clubs.

 

Tried P770 with C Taper 130X, which worked well... (Don't see myself ever gaming a TM iron, though). Tried the JPX set.... Tours spun too much. 

 

Tried a couple of lengths and lie angles.

 

Hit a few more with the P770, he basically told me to come back in the Spring... my path was a little wonky. Was pulling everything, which is not my normal miss.


The fitting turned into a bit of a lesson... he ended up asking about my instructor and recommended Andrew at Worthington Manor, who is the head pro. 

 

Indication is I need +.5" and 2 upright, but he said that would just exacerbate the pull miss... but remember, that's not my miss. I was not swinging my swing. 

 

I scheduled an "nFlight" fitting for the purpose of retro-fitting my JPX 850s with new shafts... It was supposed to be $75 for the hour, but he didn't charge me.

 

Based on the positive impression, I will be going back in the Spring for a 3 Wood and Driver/Hybrid Shafts and spending a good bit of coin. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by golfman1023
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9 hours ago, golfman1023 said:

End of season update...

 

Mid-October Outing went well. Convinced my dad to play Eagle's Landing Thursday, greens were absolutely pure. Rained out at Rum Pointe Friday after 12 holes, was able to score a raincheck and got 18 in Monday. Saturday at Lighthouse Sound was the most disappointing... 45 minute delay out of the gate and only got in 16 holes before it was dark. The course was in the worst condition of the 4, much worse than when I played a few years ago. Glen Riddle Man O' War was a blast. 

 

Finished up my lesson package with Jim at Arundel. Considering re-upping, but also looking into alternatives... I hear Andrew at Worthington Manor is good... but that is about 90 minutes from my house. Jim seems more suited to helping beginners get their bearings. I am a strong believer in tech... Mark Russo at Night Hawk is another option, but pricey. 

 

Had the opportunity to finally get fit for irons last week with Jim at 2nd Swing in Columbia... Turns out my XP 115 standard length and lie are no bueno for me... Was fit into C-Taper 130X +0.5" 1° Upright. While I was primarily looking to retro-fit, Jim suggested I hold out and buy something new (P770 or JPX SEL) the next time I can afford it, as my irons are getting older. I opted to order shafts on Golf Works, and will be installing them myself this weekend, along with some BBF&Co Ferrules that match my grips. I am in a weird spot where I am not a good enough ball striker to move into something more challenging than my JPX 850 Forgeds, and these heads have plenty of life left in them as I barely played until this year. Hoping this shaft update will give them a couple of years of life. Will be looking into driver/hybrid shafts, a new 3 wood, and a fitted putter in the spring, likely taking advantage of the Club Champion promo for the putter, and returning to 2nd Swing for the rest. 

 

Continuing to play and practice as much as possible, making use of my PDP membership at Compass Pointe. Less range, more golf. Have found that hitting off mats messes with my head, and my AoA. Recently broke 80 for the first time with a 79 that included 3 birdies, another PB. Finishing the year with an officially unofficial handicap of 8.8, with a goal for <5 for next season. 

 

On the practice front... I added a smart ball about a month ago, and I must say, my ball striking is through the roof. I've gained about a club of distance throughout my bag, partly due to effortless speed, and partly due to much better dynamic loft. Combined with religious use of the planemate, I can confirm that my armsy OTT tendencies are nearly dead and gone. 

 

I picked up the SuperSpeed Sticks for my birthday a few weeks ago, and have been working through the first protocol as often as I can remember. Results pending. 

 

Considering a G-Box due to both my admiration of Gankas and the influence he's had on my swing, as well as the positive review by the TXG guys. Have seen some negative reviews regarding its quality. Might make my own...

 

Does anyone have any recommendations of courses to play/join next year? I am happy with the course(s) and conditions, but I am looking for an overall higher caliber of golf (mostly in terms of people to play with). As I shoot low 80s usually, I've only played with a handful of solid golfers in the 70+ rounds I've played with this year over there.... damn I wish I lived close to Worthington Manor... that 5 year deal is SWEET 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


I’m currently taking lessons with Mark (12month program) and I can’t recommend him enough. If you want an instructor who uses tech he’s your guy. Trackman for every lesson and video review of the lesson and practice goals sent to your phone before you get to the car. He’s got a couple other toys coming online. I like his philosophy and has been instrumental in the improvements I’ve seen in my game this year. He is pricey, but you’re going to pay for quality instruction. He’s a younger guy, and his coaching style suits me and my game.  I’d try him out especially if he’s closer. 

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7 minutes ago, golfman1023 said:

Admittedly, it's the only fitting that I have ever been through. It seemed pretty good. The only downside is Indoor Trackman, but Club Champion has that too. There was some discussion about how the spin numbers wouldn't be correct because of this, and so we needed to get to what would be an otherwise low number, about 1000 fewer RPMs than what would be ideal outdoors. 

 

Jim, my fitter, used to work at CC... the indication I got is there's no reason to pay $350 there when 2nd Swing includes the fitting with purchase when it comes time to get a fully custom set. 

 

Only exception is CC has the PuttLab, and 2nd Swing does not... so I will be taking advantage of the CC Promo for a putter.

 

2nd Swing's "Tour Van" area has all the new stuff, a good selection of exotic shafts... saw Ventus, Graphite Designs, Fuji Pro, Paderson, etc.

 

Hit about 10 shots with a 3/4 swing, then about 10 more with a full swing... he started making up some clubs.

 

Tried P770 with C Taper 130X, which worked well... (Don't see myself ever gaming a TM iron, though). Tried the JPX set.... Tours spun too much. 

 

Tried a couple of lengths and lie angles.

 

Hit a few more with the P770, he basically told me to come back in the Spring... my path was a little wonky. Was pulling everything, which is not my normal miss.


The fitting turned into a bit of a lesson... he ended up asking about my instructor and recommended Andrew at Worthington Manor, who is the head pro. 

 

Indication is I need +.5" and 2 upright, but he said that would just exacerbate the pull miss... but remember, that's not my miss. I was not swinging my swing. 

 

I scheduled an "nFlight" fitting for the purpose of retro-fitting my JPX 850s with new shafts... It was supposed to be $75 for the hour, but he didn't charge me.

 

Based on the positive impression, I will be going back in the Spring for a 3 Wood and Driver/Hybrid Shafts and spending a good bit of coin. 

 

 

 

 

 


Ive been debating going to them for a driver/woods fitting so thank you for this. Last time I was there I saw their selection and it piqued my interest. Just a little worried about the quality of the fitting. 

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5 minutes ago, jak77 said:


I’m currently taking lessons with Mark (12month program) and I can’t recommend him enough. If you want an instructor who uses tech he’s your guy. Trackman for every lesson and video review of the lesson and practice goals sent to your phone before you get to the car. He’s got a couple other toys coming online. I like his philosophy and has been instrumental in the improvements I’ve seen in my game this year. He is pricey, but you’re going to pay for quality instruction. He’s a younger guy, and his coaching style suits me and my game.  I’d try him out especially if he’s closer. 

 

I live in Pasadena, so Gambrills/Crofton is fine. Better than going to Urbana on a weekly/bi-weekly basis. Just can't commit the cash yet (laid off). Good to hear a glowing review... that will be the primary direction I look 

 

 

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I really don't see how CC could be better than 2nd Swing. They have the same set-up and the fitters are just as credentialed (Jim worked at CC for like 20 years and Kevin was a Tour Rep for Scratch).

 

Now... if you're looking for an $8000 set of the most expensive stuff on the market... 2nd swing doesn't stock Honma or Miura from what I saw....

 

But they have all the major OEMs and all the shafts you hear people talking about...

 

The only other direction I might consider is "Golf Care Center" in Bethesda with Wade... but I get the impression that he's $$$$

Edited by golfman1023
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Somebody posted this in the thread I created about the putting scenario I mentioned last week.  I expected the putt aimed low to miss by the greatest margin, but it really ran by quite a bit.  I'd rather see this experiment done with a ghost hole, so we can see how far by the makes went.  They didn't slam into the cup, but they weren't exactly dying in, either.

 

 

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3 hours ago, flipmode said:

Hey guys, I'm looking to purchase a set of Ping G400 or 410 irons. Is there anywhere that will do a fitting included in a purchase of new irons? 

 

Flipmode, 

 
Nighthawk Crofton, MD .. money gets applied to the purchase of new clubs. 

 

Brandon is one of the best fitters in our area .. 

Edited by misplacedtexan83
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1 hour ago, misplacedtexan83 said:

 

Flipmode, 

 
Nighthawk Crofton, MD .. money gets applied to the purchase of new clubs. 

 

Brandon is one of the best fitters in our my area .. 

Thank you!!!

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2 hours ago, misplacedtexan83 said:

 

Flipmode, 

 
Nighthawk Crofton, MD .. money gets applied to the purchase of new clubs. 

 

Brandon is one of the best fitters in our my area .. 

 

Second this.  He fitted me for my irons a few months ago.  Will be seeing him again shortly for my driver/woods. Highly recommended. 

 

He fits using trackman outside so you get the numbers and can see ball flight for validation.  Only downside is it's off mats, but he knows what the numbers should be to compensate, just cant get the turf interaction portion.

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23 minutes ago, jak77 said:

 

Second this.  He fitted me for my irons a few months ago.  Will be seeing him again shortly for my driver/woods. Highly recommended. 

 

He fits using trackman outside so you get the numbers and can see ball flight for validation.  Only downside is it's off mats, but he knows what the numbers should be to compensate, just cant get the turf interaction portion.

 

Only guy I trust when I don't fit myself 🙂 

 

Yeah this time frame its tough to get fitted on grass but it is possible. However,  have to reach out to courses who have fitting carts

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On 11/14/2020 at 12:42 PM, golfman1023 said:

Admittedly, it's the only fitting that I have ever been through. It seemed pretty good. The only downside is Indoor Trackman, but Club Champion has that too. There was some discussion about how the spin numbers wouldn't be correct because of this, and so we needed to get to what would be an otherwise low number, about 1000 fewer RPMs than what would be ideal outdoors. 

 

Jim, my fitter, used to work at CC... the indication I got is there's no reason to pay $350 there when 2nd Swing includes the fitting with purchase when it comes time to get a fully custom set. 

 

Only exception is CC has the PuttLab, and 2nd Swing does not... so I will be taking advantage of the CC Promo for a putter.

 

2nd Swing's "Tour Van" area has all the new stuff, a good selection of exotic shafts... saw Ventus, Graphite Designs, Fuji Pro, Paderson, etc.

 

Hit about 10 shots with a 3/4 swing, then about 10 more with a full swing... he started making up some clubs.

 

Tried P770 with C Taper 130X, which worked well... (Don't see myself ever gaming a TM iron, though). Tried the JPX set.... Tours spun too much. 

 

Tried a couple of lengths and lie angles.

 

Hit a few more with the P770, he basically told me to come back in the Spring... my path was a little wonky. Was pulling everything, which is not my normal miss.


The fitting turned into a bit of a lesson... he ended up asking about my instructor and recommended Andrew at Worthington Manor, who is the head pro. 

 

Indication is I need +.5" and 2 upright, but he said that would just exacerbate the pull miss... but remember, that's not my miss. I was not swinging my swing. 

 

I scheduled an "nFlight" fitting for the purpose of retro-fitting my JPX 850s with new shafts... It was supposed to be $75 for the hour, but he didn't charge me.

 

Based on the positive impression, I will be going back in the Spring for a 3 Wood and Driver/Hybrid Shafts and spending a good bit of coin. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jim at 2nd Swing worked at CC for just several months.  Got let go because he couldn't really keep up with everything going on over there.  I think he'll do much better at 2nd Swing.  Not everyone at CC is a great fitter, but I still recommend Nick Gunawan at the Rockville location for fittings.  Several people in the Hive have been fitted by Nick.  He's the best builder in the area too.  I still haven't been to Nighthawk.  I have heard several guys here say great things but I have also heard about one bad fitting. 

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My go to has always been the fitting studio out at Westfields. Indoor studio hitting out onto the range. But I did a fitting a couple years ago at CC in Fairfax and it was fine. If you buy now when they have their 50% off sale and you go in knowing that the price they are going to charge you for the build is a complete ripoff - then the fitting part itself at CC IMO is great.

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SIM Max 12* - HZRDUS Smoke Green 6.5 / SIM 15* 3W - Diamana 75s 
SIM 2i UDI Diamana Thump / 5i Steelfiber 95s
P790 6,7i / P770 8i-GW Steelfiber 95s
Vokey SM8 Raw 54* / 58* / 62*
Putter / TM TP5 Pix

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I had a great fitting experience at the CC in Owings Mills. The price quote was of course outrageous but you are paying them handsomely for their time and I didn't feel any pressure to buy anything. I definitely would go back for a driver fitting. 

 

The only downside is that I haven't really played up to the irons I was fit too. They accomplished their goal of consistent flight and carry distance, but I do wish I would have gone with a more forgiving iron in the long run. It's one thing to get in a sweet groove during fitting and lay 10 shots over a picnic blanket, but once you get into tricky lies it's a different animal. 

"In Transit, Arriving Late"

Flash SZ 17°, VTS Silver 8x
Mizuno MP Fli Hi 21°, Recoil 110

MP-20 MMC  5-P, PX 6.5
SM7 50F, 54S, 58M
PXG Closer Gen 2  
Tour BX

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