Club Building Method

[TheWalkingGolfer]

I’m about to build an iron set and was thinking of changing my method and steps.

 

Usually I cut the shafts to length grip them then Adjust swing weight and glue.

 

This time I am thinking of cutting shafts then swing weight then glue then grip.

 

Only thing stopping me is a rough calculation on how much the grip will reduce SW. I have a grip cut in half which I may use to dry fit. Also could weigh the grip and calculate the SW impact and just build to the sans grip SW.

 

Any thoughts or opinions?

[Hot Rod 71]

The second option you listed is how I build clubs. I keep a split grip (50 grams) for dry fitting. I also sit a ferrule on the head while its on the SW scale. Depending on the ferrule size, it can add ~1 point to the finished swing weight.

 

I always measure and cut shafts to length, place the split grip on the shaft, dry weigh with split grip and ferrule, epoxy the shafts and let them cure, install the grips, turn the ferrules, and then remeasure and weigh once everything is assembled.

 

Stuart G and Howard Jones have both discussed assessing swing weight without a grip and how to calculate what swing weight will be once the grip is installed. Perhaps one of them will chime in here.

[Howard_Jones]

To handle SW values rigth, we should IMO split the them in 2 terms.

 

True SW, and play SW

 

The SW scale return a error when we use grips with wgt below or above 50 grams

 

To eliminate that, dry fit 1/8" short of target play length and use a SW target 9 swp above what it should measure with a 50 gram grin. As example, if your target is D2, dryfit to E1 without grips

 

Unless you was fitted to those shaft, and a specific sw value, build 1 club and tune it up, Then measure SW value when done. Dont use original value as target

 

EDIT...tons of spelling errors from my mobile

[Howard_Jones]

The second option you listed is how I build clubs. I keep a split grip (50 grams) for dry fitting. I also sit a ferrule on the head while its on the SW scale. Depending on the ferrule size, it can add ~1 point to the finished swing weight.

 

I always measure and cut shafts to length, place the split grip on the shaft, dry weigh with split grip and ferrule, epoxy the shafts and let them cure, install the grips, turn the ferrules, and then remeasure and weigh once everything is assembled.

 

Stuart G and Howard Jones have both discussed assessing swing weight without a grip and how to calculate what swing weight will be once the grip is installed. Perhaps one of them will chime in here.

 

Be careful using split grips, sometimes we dont get it fully in place, and by accident extend the club 1/16 to 1/8, so if used, and the return value seems high, check if the grip is fully seated or remove it, and just sub 9 SWP from the reading.

[ChipNRun]

Be careful using split grips, sometimes we dont get it fully in place, and by accident extend the club 1/16 to 1/8, so if used, and the return value seems high, check if the grip is fully seated or remove it, and just sub 9 SWP from the reading.

 

The costlier swingweight machines have trays upon which you can place the grip for dry swingweighting (pre-epoxy).

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

Mizuno cuts to length, installs the grip, and finally glues the head. I've built clubs for a really long time for years I did the cut, weigh with a dummy grip, glue the head, install the grip but I changed to how Mizuno does it and my specs have gotten much tighter.

 

I'm not following the Mizuno method because I play Mizuno (Callaway guy) but rather because I saw a video of their entire build process and it just made sense.

[Howard_Jones]

Be careful using split grips, sometimes we dont get it fully in place, and by accident extend the club 1/16 to 1/8, so if used, and the return value seems high, check if the grip is fully seated or remove it, and just sub 9 SWP from the reading.

 

The costlier swingweight machines have trays upon which you can place the grip for dry swingweighting (pre-epoxy).

 

The best SW scale on the marked dont, and thats for a reason. (Mitchell Tour Gauge)

 

Way to many players think the original SW is a magic spec number they need, but they could not be more wrong, and since most of them was never fitted to play the club they build, with the original SW value, they should not build it at all before they have made a test club and tuned it up to find the values they should be building. Thats where way to many takes a short cut, we see it daily in here where folk ask for how many grams to reset SW if......

 

If we think the club using standard grips at D2 will feel the same as the same club using MID size or Jumbo with a return value of D2 we mess it up, and get a club where both total wgt and head wgt might get over and beyond what the player can handle, since the SW scale CANT tell us what the actual resistance is, and the scale goes blind when we go up or down in grip wgt.

 

When a club is truly fitted and tuned up for the player, we can measure all specs for reference, but i strongly advocate that the grips we wants to use is removed, so we can measure our target specs without grips. Now we have the base line to build the set, and can add the grips back on later with no worries what so ever, we cant me mess up if we do it this way.

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

Be careful using split grips, sometimes we dont get it fully in place, and by accident extend the club 1/16 to 1/8, so if used, and the return value seems high, check if the grip is fully seated or remove it, and just sub 9 SWP from the reading.

 

The costlier swingweight machines have trays upon which you can place the grip for dry swingweighting (pre-epoxy).

 

The best SW scale on the marked dont, and thats for a reason. (Mitchell Tour Gauge)

 

Way to many players think the original SW is a magic spec number they need, but they could not be more wrong, and since most of them was never fitted to play the club they build, with the original SW value, they should not build it at all before they have made a test club and tuned it up to find the values they should be building. Thats where way to many takes a short cut, we see it daily in here where folk ask for how many grams to reset SW if......

 

If we think the club using standard grips at D2 will feel the same as the same club using MID size or Jumbo with a return value of D2 we mess it up, and get a club where both total wgt and head wgt might get over and beyond what the player can handle, since the SW scale CANT tell us what the actual resistance is, and the scale goes blind when we go up or down in grip wgt.

 

When a club is truly fitted and tuned up for the player, we can measure all specs for reference, but i strongly advocate that the grips we wants to use is removed, so we can measure our target specs without grips. Now we have the base line to build the set, and can add the grips back on later with no worries what so ever, we cant me mess up if we do it this way.

 

I guess I'm old school and I have a swingweight I prefer. I know you're a huge opponent of swingweight but that's what I like so it's kind of hard to tell me I'm wrong about what I like.

 

If you want to build a set to match swingweight the way I found gives me the best results is how I saw Mizuno do it. The only variable is the amount of epoxy and that's easy to control +/- 1 gram where as if you use a dummy grip you have to control grip weight and the amount of tape weight. Tape isn't hard but unless you've got a big batch of grips you're looking at OEMs with tolerances of 7 or 8 grams from light to heavy.

 

It is splitting hairs a little but if your target is a swingweight I've found the easiest way to control the variables is to cut to length, grip, dry swingweight, glue. I personally use a Mitchell SteelClub and I know that I like D3 in most of my irons so if I get a dry swingweight of D1.5 I find that I end with right on D3 after I install the ferrule and glue it.

[Howard_Jones]

Be careful using split grips, sometimes we dont get it fully in place, and by accident extend the club 1/16 to 1/8, so if used, and the return value seems high, check if the grip is fully seated or remove it, and just sub 9 SWP from the reading.

 

The costlier swingweight machines have trays upon which you can place the grip for dry swingweighting (pre-epoxy).

 

The best SW scale on the marked dont, and thats for a reason. (Mitchell Tour Gauge)

 

Way to many players think the original SW is a magic spec number they need, but they could not be more wrong, and since most of them was never fitted to play the club they build, with the original SW value, they should not build it at all before they have made a test club and tuned it up to find the values they should be building. Thats where way to many takes a short cut, we see it daily in here where folk ask for how many grams to reset SW if......

 

If we think the club using standard grips at D2 will feel the same as the same club using MID size or Jumbo with a return value of D2 we mess it up, and get a club where both total wgt and head wgt might get over and beyond what the player can handle, since the SW scale CANT tell us what the actual resistance is, and the scale goes blind when we go up or down in grip wgt.

 

When a club is truly fitted and tuned up for the player, we can measure all specs for reference, but i strongly advocate that the grips we wants to use is removed, so we can measure our target specs without grips. Now we have the base line to build the set, and can add the grips back on later with no worries what so ever, we cant me mess up if we do it this way.

 

I guess I'm old school and I have a swingweight I prefer. I know you're a huge opponent of swingweight but that's what I like so it's kind of hard to tell me I'm wrong about what I like.

 

If you want to build a set to match swingweight the way I found gives me the best results is how I saw Mizuno do it. The only variable is the amount of epoxy and that's easy to control +/- 1 gram where as if you use a dummy grip you have to control grip weight and the amount of tape weight. Tape isn't hard but unless you've got a big batch of grips you're looking at OEMs with tolerances of 7 or 8 grams from light to heavy.

 

It is splitting hairs a little but if your target is a swingweight I've found the easiest way to control the variables is to cut to length, grip, dry swingweight, glue. I personally use a Mitchell SteelClub and I know that I like D3 in most of my irons so if I get a dry swingweight of D1.5 I find that I end with right on D3 after I install the ferrule and glue it.

 

Dont get me wrong here, if you actually know what works the best for you, use it, i never said anything else, so when you think im a opponent to swing weight, its the way its being treated by most out there. They dont really know what works the best,(actual fitting never done) and the value itself is not compatible with another club, where either play length or total wgt (shaft wgt) is different, so we have to be in control of both total wgt progression and balance to make it right, no matter method or system we use.

[TomWishon]

I'm about to build an iron set and was thinking of changing my method and steps.

 

Usually I cut the shafts to length grip them then Adjust swing weight and glue.

 

This time I am thinking of cutting shafts then swing weight then glue then grip.

 

Only thing stopping me is a rough calculation on how much the grip will reduce SW. I have a grip cut in half which I may use to dry fit. Also could weigh the grip and calculate the SW impact and just build to the sans grip SW.

 

Any thoughts or opinions?

 

Here's what I have always done and it always works well, takes about 90-100 mins to do an 8 club iron set over two days of work. First though you need to have a decent swingweight or MOI calculator program so you can input the head weight, length, shaft weight, grip/tape weight to determine the approximate amount of weight you will need to have in the head to achieve the final swingweight or MOI desired. Such programs are around and can be found by searching or asking others on WRX.

 

1. Measure, bend and re-check the lie and loft on all the heads. When you do the lie bend you might as well have checked and are doing a bend for loft to get them all on spec since all heads come +/-1* for loft and lie. You can do both the loft and lie bend at the same time the head is in the LL machine. More advanced clubmakers can do the loft and lie in one bend by knowing what angle to set the bending bar on the hosel so it bends the right amount of loft vs lie at the same time. It's dumb to take the time to bend lie and do nothing to check and adjust the lofts when they are off just because of normal +/- tolerances from the factory that made the heads.

 

2. Measure and tip trim all shafts and rough the tips. Sharpie mark the number of each head on the butt of each shaft. Bore depths vary +/-1mm so you don't want to get the shaft for each head mixed up once you do step 3.

 

3. Install ferrules and slam the tips to the bottom of the bore which pushes each ferrule up into final place. Slamming means having a steel plate on the floor (concrete floor also works) to slam the butt end down on while you FIRMLY hold the head on the tip of the shaft. One hand holding the shaft, one hand holding the shaft with the hosel firm against the ferrule while you slam the butt down on the plate or concrete floor. Does not matter if you bend/damage the very butt end because it will be cut off when you do the length trim.

 

4. Check all the first step positions if steel or logo position if graphite to be sure these are in the proper incremental difference in position from club to club. For normal half inch increments of length the first step/graphite shaft logo also need to change in half inch increments. Due to +/- tolerances in bore depth, step placement and logo placement you will not see the shafts in perfect incremental sequence for this unless you check and adjust the shaft trims.

 

5. Measure and cut for length. Be sure to know the thickness of the end cap of the grips you are using so you can butt trim to allow for that difference in the final length with the grip on.

 

6. Install all required grip tape on the butt end of each shaft. You do this now to allow for the weight of the tape when determining what weight to add to the head to achieve the desired swingweight.

 

7. Using a split grip of the type to be installed, you dry assemble each club with the head, shaft and split grip to put on the swingweight scale (or MOI machine if matching to MOI instead of swingweight) to know how much weight to add to each head to get to the desired final swingweight (or MOI). If the weight to be added is in the form of a shaft tip weight, nip off enough of the tip of the shaft to allow for the thickness of the end of the tip weight so the ferrule fits flush against the top of the hosel. If the weight is in the form of a weight to be epoxied into a hosel weight bore in the head, you drop the weight in dry during the test assembly. Note the swingweight and if you need to grind a little off the hosel bore weight to get to the final swingweight, do it now.

 

8. Epoxy the shafts and weights into the head (or shaft in the case of tip weights). Insert shafts with a slow rotating motion. Wipe ferrules clean with pre-cut pieces of paper towel with a spinning motion and set aside to dry, either horizontally or preferably with the head down. You can wet the wipe towel piece with acetone to help remove the excess epoxy fully clean. If you do this, wear a rubber glove on the hand that holds the acetone wet towel to eliminate skin contact with acetone. Rotate shafts after installation so silkscreen or logo is in the proper desired position, consistent on all clubs.

 

9. DAY 2 - Turn ferrules on cloth belt on 1x42 or 1x30 belt sander. Buff ferrules smooth with 3/0 or 4/0 steel wool. Polish ferrules with Glanz Wach buffing compound on an unstitched buffing wheel running at anywhere betweem 1725 and 3450 rpms. No acetone finishing on ferrules. Glanz Wach buffing creates a very deep rich professional shine, not a cheap glossy shine.

 

10. Install the first grip and check size with calipers so you know whether you need to stretch, push up or leave the grip length normal when installed to get consistent final sizes on all clubs.

 

11. Inspect and clean up any dirt/smudges on any of the clubs. Install a plastic bubble wrap bag on each head. Box up or set aside for the customer.

 

This does it very well with super tight build tolerances. If you want better tolerances you can always order 2x the number of grips you need, weigh sort the grips so you use only grips within +/-0.5 grams for tighter swingweight tolerance. Then you can either keep the extra grips for a future job or return them for credit. If really want to be even more accurate you can do the same thing with the shafts.

 

TOM

[TheWalkingGolfer]

Be careful using split grips, sometimes we dont get it fully in place, and by accident extend the club 1/16 to 1/8, so if used, and the return value seems high, check if the grip is fully seated or remove it, and just sub 9 SWP from the reading.

 

The costlier swingweight machines have trays upon which you can place the grip for dry swingweighting (pre-epoxy).

 

The best SW scale on the marked dont, and thats for a reason. (Mitchell Tour Gauge)

 

Way to many players think the original SW is a magic spec number they need, but they could not be more wrong, and since most of them was never fitted to play the club they build, with the original SW value, they should not build it at all before they have made a test club and tuned it up to find the values they should be building. Thats where way to many takes a short cut, we see it daily in here where folk ask for how many grams to reset SW if......

 

If we think the club using standard grips at D2 will feel the same as the same club using MID size or Jumbo with a return value of D2 we mess it up, and get a club where both total wgt and head wgt might get over and beyond what the player can handle, since the SW scale CANT tell us what the actual resistance is, and the scale goes blind when we go up or down in grip wgt.

 

When a club is truly fitted and tuned up for the player, we can measure all specs for reference, but i strongly advocate that the grips we wants to use is removed, so we can measure our target specs without grips. Now we have the base line to build the set, and can add the grips back on later with no worries what so ever, we cant me mess up if we do it this way.

 

So in my case I am building an iron set to "standard length" with 51g grips and one extra wrap of double sided tape. In this scenario using your method you would still build to E1 to achieve a true D2?

[Howard_Jones]

Be careful using split grips, sometimes we dont get it fully in place, and by accident extend the club 1/16 to 1/8, so if used, and the return value seems high, check if the grip is fully seated or remove it, and just sub 9 SWP from the reading.

 

The costlier swingweight machines have trays upon which you can place the grip for dry swingweighting (pre-epoxy).

 

The best SW scale on the marked dont, and thats for a reason. (Mitchell Tour Gauge)

 

Way to many players think the original SW is a magic spec number they need, but they could not be more wrong, and since most of them was never fitted to play the club they build, with the original SW value, they should not build it at all before they have made a test club and tuned it up to find the values they should be building. Thats where way to many takes a short cut, we see it daily in here where folk ask for how many grams to reset SW if......

 

If we think the club using standard grips at D2 will feel the same as the same club using MID size or Jumbo with a return value of D2 we mess it up, and get a club where both total wgt and head wgt might get over and beyond what the player can handle, since the SW scale CANT tell us what the actual resistance is, and the scale goes blind when we go up or down in grip wgt.

 

When a club is truly fitted and tuned up for the player, we can measure all specs for reference, but i strongly advocate that the grips we wants to use is removed, so we can measure our target specs without grips. Now we have the base line to build the set, and can add the grips back on later with no worries what so ever, we cant me mess up if we do it this way.

 

So in my case I am building an iron set to "standard length" with 51g grips and one extra wrap of double sided tape. In this scenario using your method you would still build to E1 to achieve a true D2?

 

YES that would be what i call TRUE SW, with grips on i use PLAY SW, and thats the value we should find using a test club we tune up using that grip and the numbers of BU we want, thats our real target, but for the building process, we should now remove the grip and the grip tape from the test club, and measure again, and thats your dry fit value without grips.

 

Dont forget the weight of epoxy with 0.35 to 0.5 grams, that could be a strip of tape you use to fix the ferrule outside the shaft, but in its correct position during dryfit to tune head wgt and SW to target.

[GimmieHendrix]

As for single length, can't do it. Just can't. Call it an affront to my religion or something.

 

I bought some Wishon single length irons and I must say they are amazing. Several people hit my 5 iron, say it's the best 5 iron they've ever hit, then go back to struggling with their old 5 iron — "religion or something" is actually a really good explanation for it. :)

[Deano802]

I like this method which I think makes a lot of sense so the clubs are always constant regardless of grip, my question is do i put the club with the cut butt end all the way flush with end of scale then subtract the 9 points, or my swingweight scale has a little 1/8" contraption/spacer that you push out to hold shaft and in effect makes it correct playing length, then subtract the 9 points?? They two methods will produce different results and I'm not sure which is correct.

[Stuart_G]

flush. The 9 sw pts includes compensation for the change in length when a grip is added. 10 sw pts for a 50 gm grip and minus one for the extra 1/8" of playing length = the 9 sw pts. You could use the spacer but then it would be a 10 sw pt adjustment to get the real swing weight.

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

The factor 9 SWP is included the length missing from the grip cap (its the total difference from un-gripped to gripped with a Golfpride Tour velvet standard), so the un-gripped club shall be flushed against the end of the scale, just like there was a grip on it.

So for FLEX/Butt CPM judgement, consider E1 as the standard value (un-gripped), and for each SWP higher, butt CPM will go down with 1 CPM or opposite when the return value is below E1. That means shafts like KBS Tour Parallels who has D2 as standard value for flex rating, really have E1 as the right value since we always measure without grips, and RIFLE FCM "old model" has E2 as standard SW value, the "new model" after 2012 has E1.

 

EDIT:

Avoid using split grips, its mentioned above, we can fail and dont get the grip fully seated and that changes "play length on the scale", and DONT use the actual grips either, they can vary plus minus 3.5 grams in weight, and we dont want a set where the balance job is made due to grip weight tolerances who is down the drain at the first grip change.

Measure grip weight anyway, and distribute them to even out total weight progression from club to club. (take notes for reference so you know what you did when the first grip change comes along)

[Deano802]

Thanks, really helpful @Stuart_G @Howard_Jones

[Deano802]

Regarding your edit i was planning on using your method ungripped and base off the test 7iron I built which is about d2, I'm using Lamkin cords which weigh approx 50g, i was going to weigh them and use the heaviest for the longest iron to make a slightly lighter playing swingweight and so on and not actually worry about gripped swingweight differences too much, I think it is splitting hairs.

[Howard_Jones]

I understand your thinking, but do yourself a favor, when the clubs is built, and before you add grips on them, put each club without grips on the gram scale and take notes. Im not familiar with what kind of shafts you are using, but as example, if its a set with constant weight shafts and they are built to the classic 4/8" between clubs, all to the same SW value, the "ideal" is 7.0 grams from club to club all the way. Now look at your notes for grip weight....you dont want 2 clubs in the set with the same or almost the same total weight, thats what my suggestion is all about, where we can take advantage of grip tolerances to even out total weight progression. Even shafts like Dynamic Gold has a shaft wgt tolerance of plus minus 1.5 grams, who has the potential to move 2 clubs by 3 of totally 7 grams, so it dont take much before we end up with 2 clubs that has the same or almost the same weight....So do yourself that favor this time, put each club on the gram scale un-gripped, so with the grips, then ask yourself if its splitting hairs or if we talk a easy non cost solution to improve over all specs...

[Deano802]

Ok so yes I'm using shimada constant weight, tolerences are very good, and classic 1/2", so instead of using the swing weight scale why don't I get my 7i where i like it then just aim for 7g diff along the set on my digital scales dry ungripped then use grips to balance out any differences after glue. I think thats what you are saying, and doing it by digital weight is quicker and more accurate!

 

Edit. OEM makes PW 1pt heavier, so in that case i just make my PW 14g heavier than 9i

[Howard_Jones]

The reason for why 7.0 grams head weight want fit "spot on" (to get the same SW), is each heads center of gravity, so actual distance from butt to COG dont follow play length 1:1 trough the set. This can be both by design (higher VCOG as lofts goes up), or that "bastard" we call "tolerances" from production.

1 mm off is 0.25 SWP and thats 0.5 grams head weight (by the rule of thumb 2 grams = 1 SWP)

We have the same issue with lie angles, thats why we should do loft and lie as the very first tasks of them all. 4* on lie is 1 SWP so only 1* off on lie angle is 0.25 SWP equal to 0.5 grams head weight.

#9 to PW is often only 0.25" or 2/8" if you like, so TW progression becomes the half or 3.5 grams, PLUS that 1 SWP raise, and for a standard PW of 35.75", 1 SWP = 2.3 grams, so the picky builder wants the PW to become 3.5 + 2.3 = 5.8 grams above the #9 iron before grips is added.

[Deano802]

Ok so I’m better to go by sw scale then? Then make sure I spread the weight out nicely with the grips so nothing gets too close in dead weight

[Howard_Jones]

We "normally" measure each head (weight), and take notes, then find the needed tip weights for each head to get a 7 gram slope as a start. (for a flat SW match and 4/8" between clubs). In some cases, hosel drilling to reduce head weight might be needed on a few heads, it all depends on our SW target from the club used for fitting.

During dryfit to our target using the SW scale, we fine adjust the weight from the 7.0 gram slope, often by grinding down a tip weight (typical to a tolerance within 1/10 of a gram)

The ferrule we shall use should be attached outside of the shaft tip during dry fit (about where it will end), fixed with a piece of tape who during dryfit replace the amount of epoxy needed (about 0.35 grams of epoxy, we mix 0.5 grams for each club, but loose average 0.15 on the mixing paper and as wipe off)

 

[Ri_Redneck]

Howard and Tom have posted the proper methods. The one thing many seem to not grasp is "Do you really know what SW will work best for you with THESE clubs?" If you DO either through a fitting or they are identical to your aging set, then your good to go. However, if not, building a single to test is imperative. Assuming that "D-0", or any other SW you may have used in the past, will work with your new graphite shafted players cavities with oversized grips is a joke. You have to hit them to make sure what you need. As Howard said, pick a starting point and build one club (preferrably one from the middle of your planned set) and go to the course. Hit it off GRASS and see if it feels right and hits right. If not, tweak the weighting (total and/or SW) till your happy with it. Then build the rest to match.

BT

[Howard_Jones]

its already mentioned, but cant be mentioned to often, just scroll up to post #8 and you will find a "horror example"....someone who thinks "D3" is his preferred value, but when we know how WRX profiles mess around with both shaft models and grip models they should know that "D3" is NOT a transferable value, it never was, but 99% still think that value represent a certain feel of head weight even if it dont.......And who have learned folks to "tune SW values" by overdosing epoxy? thats where epoxy rattles in steel shafts comes from, or graphite shafts broken at the hosel top, or so filled up in the tip they cant be reused without repair with special equipment. Even True Tempers own Tour van used epoxy to tune SW in a "how too" video....like grinding down a tip weight to target took to much time?...its begging for returning customers, but they return to make a complain, and for good reasons.

 

[Deano802]

Ok so first attempt completed, noted head weights and dry sw no grip, had to add approx 1g to 5 and 6 to get in range, pw sw is a bit heavy but didn’t want to go crazy drilling into hosel this time I tried a little bit, will check sw again tomorrow when epoxy cured and get the grips on