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Is it just me....Epic Pro Irons distances.....


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Ok, So I have a set of the epic pro irons. I actually really really liked the way they looked in person, the photos didn't do them justice IMO. Very attractive club, especially from address. I kinda dig the sound too.

 

Anyway, I played a few rounds with them and I found I was just flat out struggling with distance control. I mean, the same swing, same shot would result in distances that were 10+ yards apart. I'm a pretty low handicap and able to hit them pretty well, so i'm not hitting them all over the face. They just seemed to have a very erratic face. I don't know if the spin is getting killed or if the ballspeed is changing.

 

What's interesting, as I started to see that, I went back and watched some more of the youtube reviews to see if anyone talked about it. They really don't BUT when you really look at most review data, you will notice all of the reviewers really are struggling with the same issue. Rick Shields has distance variations all over the place in that review (for him), and some of the other guys are seeing the same thing. There's a comparison video against the PXG and that reviewer (can't remember his name) did mention the distance issue somewhat I guess.

 

So my question, has anyone else had this experience? I really wanted to LOVE this irons after seeing them in real life, but man, I'm already back to the Apex combo set. Just curious to hear experiences because I don't see this being discussed much after searching and these clubs were one of the most inconsistent I've every used on the course.

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Maybe it's the shafts?

The stock shaft, I think, is a made for Callaway Prohect X LZ 105, very different than the mass produced LZ shaft

 

I don't think so. I'm using my normal steel fiber shafts that I use in my setup for everything else, never had any issue. I guess it's possible these shafts were mislabeled by them or something, but I don't think so.

 

Like I said too, I notice in the reviews, many reviewers are getting strangely variable distances as well, seemingly far more than normal.

 

It's really too bad because I love the look and really want to like them, but.....

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I did some players distance iron testing/comparisons for a local shop, the Epic Pro's were one of the clubs I hit. I remember hitting the 5 iron and I expected a little distance increase because of the loft and saw it as I was hitting the 5 iron on avg. around 205-208 carry, and then would hit one that flew 215 carry and then one that might carry 200. As you said good clubs to look down at but spin and distance numbers seemed to jump all over the place for me, not a club I could take out on the course and feel comfortable knowing how far it was going to go.

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I did some players distance iron testing/comparisons for a local shop, the Epic Pro's were one of the clubs I hit. I remember hitting the 5 iron and I expected a little distance increase because of the loft and saw it as I was hitting the 5 iron on avg. around 205-208 carry, and then would hit one that flew 215 carry and then one that might carry 200. As you said good clubs to look down at but spin and distance numbers seemed to jump all over the place for me, not a club I could take out on the course and feel comfortable knowing how far it was going to go.

 

I appreciate the response. I have been trying to figure out if I was going nuts, or really just mis-striking them and not realizing. Some of the cavity backs have that slightly elevated sweet spot where it kills spin and they can kinda jump a bit, but they also tend to fly a little short without that spin because it's a bit heavy of a strike. But I normally know when I've hit it that way, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case, unless these are incredible at masking solid impact.

 

My son is scratch and I gave them to him for a round or 2 (it's not the right shaft setup for him though) just to get his opinion. He kinda had the same reaction, he felt the distances were jumping around on him as well. Same kind of opinion, it's too bad because they are actually really nice looking in real life and the unique feel is something I could definitely like. But to your point, 200 to 215 is just way too big a gap on the same type of strike!

 

I just think it's a little weird that it hasn't been talked about more in the forums, unless no one is actually playing them.

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I hit these (and similar irons) on Trackman quite a bit last winter just playing around and experienced exactly what you mentioned above. Distance irons are certainly not “distance control” irons. They go a mile but there is simply no consistency. There are reasons that I still carry and old school forged blade and distance control is on the top of that list.

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I just got fit yesterday. Hit a lot of clubs. Most all the 7 irons went between 145 and 148 yds. Hit an M3 7 iron. 3 well struck shots went 145 to 147. Great club. Was excited to buy them. Hit it a fourth time, and really flushed it. 165 yds. That's cool but not playable on the course.

 

If TM has solved that issue on the 790, sign me up.

 

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Distance control seems to be a forgotten skill or so low on the list of things people look for in a set of clubs these days.

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A one piece hunk of metal on a stick is going to be “slow everywhere!”

 

And that isn’t a bad thing for certain golfers.

 

For others, the distance irons (loft for loft, not iron # for iron #) are a wonderful new option.

 

To thine owns self be true!

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[img]http://pxc86358mpx1hyn3hdxen4o1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/171831.png[/img]

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A one piece hunk of metal on a stick is going to be "slow everywhere!"

 

And that isn't a bad thing for certain golfers.

 

For others, the distance irons (loft for loft, not iron # for iron #) are a wonderful new option.

 

To thine owns self be true!

 

"Flyers" - the reason most golfers (not players) think that they hit their 9 iron 150

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I experienced major distance consistency issues when I tried a set of distance irons a few years ago. Since then, I've only considered traditional loft irons.

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I did some players distance iron testing/comparisons for a local shop, the Epic Pro's were one of the clubs I hit. I remember hitting the 5 iron and I expected a little distance increase because of the loft and saw it as I was hitting the 5 iron on avg. around 205-208 carry, and then would hit one that flew 215 carry and then one that might carry 200. As you said good clubs to look down at but spin and distance numbers seemed to jump all over the place for me, not a club I could take out on the course and feel comfortable knowing how far it was going to go.

 

I appreciate the response. I have been trying to figure out if I was going nuts, or really just mis-striking them and not realizing. Some of the cavity backs have that slightly elevated sweet spot where it kills spin and they can kinda jump a bit, but they also tend to fly a little short without that spin because it's a bit heavy of a strike. But I normally know when I've hit it that way, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case, unless these are incredible at masking solid impact.

 

My son is scratch and I gave them to him for a round or 2 (it's not the right shaft setup for him though) just to get his opinion. He kinda had the same reaction, he felt the distances were jumping around on him as well. Same kind of opinion, it's too bad because they are actually really nice looking in real life and the unique feel is something I could definitely like. But to your point, 200 to 215 is just way too big a gap on the same type of strike!

 

I just think it's a little weird that it hasn't been talked about more in the forums, unless no one is actually playing them.

 

Ugh this again. It’s not talked about because it isn’t real.

 

It’s not the same strike. Mr wishon wrote a paper on “hot spot” irons being a myth. You can find it searching the forums.

 

Post a track man screen shot with the exact strike being off 15 yards. It doesn’t exist. You can’t “feel” if you strike the ball exactly the same or not. You’re not sensitive enough to it.

 

There is no way you are seeing 15 yard differences on “identical” strikes.

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I did some players distance iron testing/comparisons for a local shop, the Epic Pro's were one of the clubs I hit. I remember hitting the 5 iron and I expected a little distance increase because of the loft and saw it as I was hitting the 5 iron on avg. around 205-208 carry, and then would hit one that flew 215 carry and then one that might carry 200. As you said good clubs to look down at but spin and distance numbers seemed to jump all over the place for me, not a club I could take out on the course and feel comfortable knowing how far it was going to go.

 

I appreciate the response. I have been trying to figure out if I was going nuts, or really just mis-striking them and not realizing. Some of the cavity backs have that slightly elevated sweet spot where it kills spin and they can kinda jump a bit, but they also tend to fly a little short without that spin because it's a bit heavy of a strike. But I normally know when I've hit it that way, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case, unless these are incredible at masking solid impact.

 

My son is scratch and I gave them to him for a round or 2 (it's not the right shaft setup for him though) just to get his opinion. He kinda had the same reaction, he felt the distances were jumping around on him as well. Same kind of opinion, it's too bad because they are actually really nice looking in real life and the unique feel is something I could definitely like. But to your point, 200 to 215 is just way too big a gap on the same type of strike!

 

I just think it's a little weird that it hasn't been talked about more in the forums, unless no one is actually playing them.

 

Ugh this again. It’s not talked about because it isn’t real.

 

It’s not the same strike. Mr wishon wrote a paper on “hot spot” irons being a myth. You can find it searching the forums.

 

Post a track man screen shot with the exact strike being off 15 yards. It doesn’t exist. You can’t “feel” if you strike the ball exactly the same or not. You’re not sensitive enough to it.

 

There is no way you are seeing 15 yard differences on “identical” strikes.

 

 

You should read more before responding. It’s not about identical strikes, it’s a discussion about the relative distance dispersion in a set of irons in a testing session (or playing session). When options a, b, and c all have dispersions of 5 yards and another has 15, on the same day, with the same swing, Something isn’t right. You can point to “wishon” white papers al you want, you don’t need them to look at track man results and compare to see what iron model is more consistent for YOU on that testing day. What I, and others, are saying is the epic pro irons fall into the bottom of the barrel in terms of that consistency on any given day. The distance is all over the place on strikes that while not identical, are close enough to NOT have created the distance dispersion we are seeing.

 

And hot spots aren’t increasing ball speed, they decrease spin, the same as when grass gets stuck between the club and ball. Some clubs absolutely have a tendency to spin far less when struck above the ideal, hence increasing distance on what feels to the user like only a slight miss.

 

 

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I did some players distance iron testing/comparisons for a local shop, the Epic Pro's were one of the clubs I hit. I remember hitting the 5 iron and I expected a little distance increase because of the loft and saw it as I was hitting the 5 iron on avg. around 205-208 carry, and then would hit one that flew 215 carry and then one that might carry 200. As you said good clubs to look down at but spin and distance numbers seemed to jump all over the place for me, not a club I could take out on the course and feel comfortable knowing how far it was going to go.

 

I appreciate the response. I have been trying to figure out if I was going nuts, or really just mis-striking them and not realizing. Some of the cavity backs have that slightly elevated sweet spot where it kills spin and they can kinda jump a bit, but they also tend to fly a little short without that spin because it's a bit heavy of a strike. But I normally know when I've hit it that way, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case, unless these are incredible at masking solid impact.

 

My son is scratch and I gave them to him for a round or 2 (it's not the right shaft setup for him though) just to get his opinion. He kinda had the same reaction, he felt the distances were jumping around on him as well. Same kind of opinion, it's too bad because they are actually really nice looking in real life and the unique feel is something I could definitely like. But to your point, 200 to 215 is just way too big a gap on the same type of strike!

 

I just think it's a little weird that it hasn't been talked about more in the forums, unless no one is actually playing them.

 

Ugh this again. It’s not talked about because it isn’t real.

 

It’s not the same strike. Mr wishon wrote a paper on “hot spot” irons being a myth. You can find it searching the forums.

 

Post a track man screen shot with the exact strike being off 15 yards. It doesn’t exist. You can’t “feel” if you strike the ball exactly the same or not. You’re not sensitive enough to it.

 

There is no way you are seeing 15 yard differences on “identical” strikes.

 

 

You should read more before responding. It’s not about identical strikes, it’s a discussion about the relative distance dispersion in a set of irons in a testing session (or playing session). When options a, b, and c all have dispersions of 5 yards and another has 15, on the same day, with the same swing, Something isn’t right. You can point to “wishon” white papers al you want, you don’t need them to look at track man results and compare to see what iron model is more consistent for YOU on that testing day. What I, and others, are saying is the epic pro irons fall into the bottom of the barrel in terms of that consistency on any given day. The distance is all over the place on strikes that while not identical, are close enough to NOT have created the distance dispersion we are seeing.

 

And hot spots aren’t increasing ball speed, they decrease spin, the same as when grass gets stuck between the club and ball. Some clubs absolutely have a tendency to spin far less when struck above the ideal, hence increasing distance on what feels to the user like only a slight miss.

 

The dispersion is related to the distance those irons travel, its not inherent in the iron itself. The epic irons are lofted much stronger. A 7 iron epic will have much more "distance dispersion" than a 7 iron blade from 1980. Its not because distance control is a "lost art" (lol) its because the farther the ball goes the more margin for error will show up.

 

If you compare the epic club that goes 150 to the mizuno blade that goes 150 they'll be identical distance dispersion on identical swings. This discussion is nonsense. Particular irons don't have "hot spots" that kill spin - did you read Wishon's paper?. If they did they'd be non-conforming. You might be able to convince me if you showed me significant launch monitor data (all of Wishon's arguments are theoretical, and it *is* golf, where we learn new things all the time), but you just "feeling" like you've made "good swings"? Come on man.

 

You're hitting it slightly thin and calling it a hot spot. Golf clubs that conform can't have "spots on the face" that are different from the rest of the face. They have to scale exactly evenly from the center to the edge. Now yes, a golf club will kill spin above center, but its relative to the center (or else it wouldn't be conforming). Any conforming club will decrease (or increase) by exactly the same amount relative to itself.

 

EDIT: Someone should make a driver out of whatever it is they use to create these spots on the epic irons.

G400 Max 9* Ventus Red 5X, SIM Ventus Red 6X 

Callaway Mavrik 4 (18*) - AW (46*) Project X 5.5

Vokey SM4 50* SM5 56*

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I don’t think most players realize how individual their strikes are. Not only that, but club speed, steepness, angle of attack, so many things to influence contact and launch and spin. Even if it looks like you hit the ball in the exact same spot, it’s not simple — still could be substantial variation in the swing.

 

I am not on a Trackman often, but I am a believer in impact tape. Gives you a much more accurate assessment than going by feel, simply because irons like these are designed to feel nice even if the contact wanders. But put impact tape on and you will see movement and its impact on the shot. And you will see some shots made a more dramatic mark, clearly compressed the ball with more authority than others. Those shots are going different distances. You can’t really see it just by looking at the club with no tape.

 

If you hit 10 balls, you won’t see one mark made in the same spot by 10 straight shots, even in a driving range rhythm. That is even less so on the course, with different lies, stances and when the shot counts.

 

I checked out reviews on YouTube. Shiels regularly hits the ball all over the face and regularly blames it on offset and club design. I like his vids, but we can’t count on him being a source on something like this. He’s an entertainer making a living and good for him. Wishon knows what he is talking about. Also, one reviewer, ‘The Average Golfer.’ praised the Epic Pro for being highly consistent on distances. Perception is everything but the clubs can’t be hotter than the rules allow, anywhere.

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