Would you join a "Just Golf " course.

[Augustok]

How do courses like #1 pay for a grounds crew and staff? I always thought a decent amount of a clubs revenue came from the F+B side of the house. Seems like it would be hard to sustain a model where you are getting an A+ greenskeeper/crew *and* the dues are inexpensive *and* there aren't a ton of members.

 

F&B loses money everywhere. It's a vicious cycle for those clubs that don't value their clubhouse/dining facilities - F&B loses money, so you pump more events, weddings, etc. through it to cover the losses, and to get more weddings, you need bigger facilities, which creates bigger losses.

 

You can pretty easily maintain a golf course (in the Northeast) at a private club standard for ~$1.5M a year in cost. Call it 400 members at $2,500 each gets you to $1M; throw in a handful of Monday events and guest fees and you've got yourself covered.

 

 

 

Agree about the F&B loosing cycle. However if you have 400 members who actually want to golf a lot, that is too many members. I’ve basically belonged to a private #1 for many years. Beautiful course, well maintained, grounds budget about $ 1.5. There is a clubhouse with relatively small locker rooms..not everyone has a locker, and lunch/dinner/bar I think closes at 9:30 or so. I play in the morning about 4 times a week April through October. No tennis or pool. A single is about $6000 per year.

[third-times-a-charm]

1. Would you join a course that is just golf? No pool, tennis, fine dining, gym . It may have a snack bar. Golf course is great and dues are moderate say $2000 a year.

 

I love all the responses that go something like:

 

"That's exactly like my club! All we have is a golf course, a locker room appointed with the finest mahogany lockers and steam showers, a very modest bar with a selection of all the finest scotch and cigars, a dining room, a grill room (and the food is great!), valet parking, bag drop, and top notch caddy program. I'm so lucky to be at a club that's 100% golf and nothing else..."

 

My own experience with this was that I went on the waitlist for a club like Club #1 a while back; the club had a very well maintained 9 holes of golf and a very clean porta-potty adjacent to the 9th green. And nothing else. Cost was/is about $2,000. While I was waiting it out, I joined another full-boat country club, with all the sports/dining/family activities that entails. Cost was, well, more. My name came up at Club #1, and I didn't join. I came to appreciate everything at Club #2 and couldn't justify two memberships within a few miles of each other.

 

If Club #2 had never existed, I would have been very happy at Club #1...but where it was a choice, I'd rather have the option to do more than just play golf.

 

My wife and I WANT a private with other things to do and other people to meet, as well.

 

As a guy who golfs, of course a golf only would be cool, but we live on our course and can walk to the clubhouse so it makes sense to do the social stuff.

 

 

Agree about the F&B loosing cycle. However if you have 400 members who actually want to golf a lot, that is too many members. I’ve basically belonged to a private #1 for many years. Beautiful course, well maintained, grounds budget about $ 1.5. There is a clubhouse with relatively small locker rooms..not everyone has a locker, and lunch/dinner/bar I think closes at 9:30 or so. I play in the morning about 4 times a week April through October. No tennis or pool. A single is about $6000 per year.

 

Sorta agree/disagree. For MOST courses F&B is...but some do not have weddings and etc nor need to do them since people actually WANT to go to dinner there. Our $1200 F&B min is very easy to meet with one dinner a month if we wanted to do the bare minimum.

[Schley]

There are almost 100 responses in this thread and I would count 2 of them as what you described. I don't see the same observations. Having a bar and a mens locker room is a far cry from what you were referencing don't you think? There are some over the top clubs, but those posting in this thread I don't think are being disingenuous about the amenities they are valuing. Some maybe have the extra crap that they don't use (I certainly do) but having a great course and locker room/grill are worth it to me. I see others saying the same. Some like the other amenities and they get value out of them.

[raynorfan1]

There are almost 100 responses in this thread and I would count 2 of them as what you described. I don't see the same observations. Having a bar and a mens locker room is a far cry from what you were referencing don't you think? There are some over the top clubs, but those posting in this thread I don't think are being disingenuous about the amenities they are valuing. Some maybe have the extra crap that they don't use (I certainly do) but having a great course and locker room/grill are worth it to me. I see others saying the same. Some like the other amenities and they get value out of them.

 

The Dye Preserve is the one that got me.

 

The OP was whether *just golf* with MAYBE a “snack bar” is viable. Then people (including you) are piping in with: “absolutely! As long as it has a locker room, full bar, and grille!”

 

The premise was golf, bare bones.

 

I’d be comfortable in either model, but as indicated above, chose the full country club when I actually had he decision to make.

[@_the_crook]

based on what I've read here, the muni I live near sounds better and better.

park district owned and operated. they run it like a community CC.

27 holes. decent range.

small grill. locker room.

good instructors, friendly staff.

you need to get a tee time.

they have a bonus plan where you can pay $1000 up front to get $1400 in golf value. equals about eight extra green fees for the season.

five minutes from home.

our group loves the place.

[vbb]

I did. Was a member of a full private course with pool, tennis and dining. Sold it to the family as something we could all use (I'm the only one interested in golf in my household of 5). We were members for 2 years, and if my family was at the club 20 times in those two years I'd be surprised. The kids liked the pool just fine, but we have a pool at home. We had a few family dinners there and they did a nice Halloween party, but more often than not we were forcing ourselves to go there just to not get hit with the food minimum.

 

I dropped membership earlier this year and rejoined at my old course which is just golf for less than half the price. Now, there is a super premier golf-only course in my area which is probably double or triple the cost of the club I used to belong to. Practice facilities and course conditions are pristine. That I would not be able to sell to the wife.

[raynorfan1]

However if you have 400 members who actually want to golf a lot, that is too many members. I’ve basically belonged to a private #1 for many years. Beautiful course, well maintained, grounds budget about $ 1.5.

 

One of the interesting dynamics of the "UK" model is that there is an elasticity of demand shift in the pricing: if you charge a lot, you attract two groups: avid golfers who want to get their money's worth, and rich people for whom "a lot" is actually not that much on a relative basis.

 

If you charge half of what everybody else charges (call it $4,000 a year instead of $8,000), because you're no frills, just golf, you are like a magnet for avid golfers. They love the place. But to your point, if you have 400 of them, the balance of the whole place is thrown off. You can't get a tee time on the weekends; you can't sneak out after work, etc.

 

But if you get really affordable. Call it $1,500, you can attract golfers who are only going to play ~10 - 15 rounds a year. Suddenly, it's reasonable for somebody to join just so that they can play in the Tuesday afternoon ladies' game. So you end up with 1,500 members, most of whom only play a dozen rounds a year.

[justasgood]

I am a member of option 1. Used to have tennis, boat launch, pool and restaurant.

 

Now just golf. $200/month

 

Just kind of curious, how has the change impacted membership?

 

My club has discussed this a bunch. The dining room and the overhead that it brings is just unsustainable with a diminishing membership. The fear is that we'll lose a handful of social members, but I am curious to hear if the reduction of amenities actually increased membership at all?

 

Membership is low( mostly old guys) probably around 200 members. greenskeeper does one hell of a job keeping the course playable and nice. No golf tournaments for the members worth playing. No food other than snacks and drinks. No cart refreshments on course.

 

But I play everyday and love having the course mostly to myself for around $225/month(includes trail fee for my cart)

[Browns71213]

1. Yes. I hate paying for others to enjoy all the amenities at our club that we don't use or don't need

2. No. I like playing in the AM and fall rounds would be severely limited if you can only play in the afternoons

3. I could sell #1 to the wife not #2

[bigred90gt]

I have been a member at 3 clubs.

 

1 - full private country club with pool, tennis courts, locker rooms, restaurant/bar, etc. short course, easy layout, incredibly walkable, driving range and putting green (no short game area to speak of). It was an old country club in the middle of town, with a lot of old money retired Exxon folks. For $100/month, no tee time needed, could play 18 in 2 hours easily in a cart, 2.5 walking, it wasn’t a bad deal especially since it was about 3 minutes from my house. I think I got in the pool once in the 4 years I was a member, never set foot in the tennis courts, and only went into the locker room to use the restroom. Food was great and service was great, I just didn’t use the amenities.

 

2 - semi private course with a decent range, mediocre short game area and putting green. No locker rooms. Tough layout but great course, till they lost the greens in the drought back in 2011. Full bar with typical course grill food (burgers, dogs, wings, etc). $72/month and $15 per round whether you walked or rode. Was a member for 8 years till they sold the course to a developer. The last 5 conditions were deplorable, but I had a lot of friends there including the owners, and service to the members was impeccable. We fished in the ponds (catch and release of course), played whenever we wanted with no waiting, and basically had free run of the course.

 

3 - local municipal course that is one of the best public courses in the Houston area. $100/month and $18 per round walk or ride (weekend green fees for non-members are $65, so al2 rounds a month is just about break even point). They have a pro shop and a small grill. No bar, but they sell beer. No liquor. No locker rooms. Great range/short game area/putting green. It is pure golf. But it gets packed. They host a ton of local tournaments, to the point that from March to July it is tough to get a weekend tee time. Conditions are incredible year round, some of the best greens and lush fairways. If you don’t have a weekend tee time, you might as well not even show up till twilight because chances are it will be packed. 4 hours is typical unless you are there mid week middle of the day.

 

The best overall experience was #2. Even after they lost the greens, we still kept our membership. For me it was an escape from my marriage. I spent 4-5 days a week there, including dawn to dark on sundays. There was no locker room but we bellied up to the bar and hung out. These days, #3 is what I want, but I don’t play enough to justify the cost and my wife doesn’t care for the course. She’s too new to the game and it’s a tough course, and she hasn’t grown to appreciate the immaculate conditioning yet. I have no desire to spend all day hanging out at a golf course anymore. I want to show up, warm up, play golf and go home. When my wife is with me, we might have a beer after, otherwise, I’m headed to the house. All the fluff and stuff does nothing for me, so I can’t see a need to pay for it.

[Under2hours]

Geez still reading and wish we had those choices. Minimum dues for a course here is $4,000, with a 45 min drive from the city (typical probably $6,000+) and a 7 month season if lucky. Add to that minimums and overpriced guest fees (as you want to show off the club and bring out clients & friends).

 

I had a one year trial membership and it was a good 45 minute drive (won in an auction). Old non-descript clubhouse and locker room and passable food. The course was well maintained, good mix of holes, fun & playable I didn't bring a single client/associate as it was the other side of the city where my golf playing clients lived. I played almost exclusively in the afternoon & twilight.....

 

Now I am at a top rated private that has a gorgeous patio, above average food, old style clubhouse (though showing age and below average locker room, but perfectly fine) and above average practice area (a little shortish range). Happy to show off and bring clients. Family no interest except a meal or two to use my minimum and still trying to get them to golf.

 

All told I expect I am spending $10,000/yr, which is more then I want, but in line with private courses here.

 

Enjoy the mid-west & UK........ I'm envious.

[clinkinfo]

1. Would you join a course that is just golf? No pool, tennis, fine dining, gym . It may have a snack bar. Golf course is great and dues are moderate say $2000 a year.

2. Would you join a course that allows you only to play golf at certain times say after 1 . No real club house privledges. Course is outstanding and national ranked. Dues in the $3000 + range.

3.Could you sell this to your wife?

 

Where do you live? I can barely get a Muni course membership for $2k? The answer is yes to all of them, and honestly would be a bargain around here. All those options by the way exist here in the North East, it's not hypothetical.

[Fairwindsgolfer]

How do courses like #1 pay for a grounds crew and staff? I always thought a decent amount of a clubs revenue came from the F+B side of the house. Seems like it would be hard to sustain a model where you are getting an A+ greenskeeper/crew *and* the dues are inexpensive *and* there aren't a ton of members.

 

F&B loses money everywhere. It's a vicious cycle for those clubs that don't value their clubhouse/dining facilities - F&B loses money, so you pump more events, weddings, etc. through it to cover the losses, and to get more weddings, you need bigger facilities, which creates bigger losses.

 

You can pretty easily maintain a golf course (in the Northeast) at a private club standard for ~$1.5M a year in cost. Call it 400 members at $2,500 each gets you to $1M; throw in a handful of Monday events and guest fees and you've got yourself covered.

I would give anything to join a well groomed private club for 2500, here in CT.

[Ray5592]

Sure I would

[DivinDave]

yes. I would join a Just Golf club. I have no use for the rest of it.

[sdrthedj]

I haven't found a a 'just golf' club that has a price that I can justify. A formerly private course was sold and redone. It is really nice. The price for a single is the same as 40+ rounds of golf, and I would have to pay for carts. They don't have a driving range and no practice area other than a putting green.

 

I also like playing different courses sometimes. I would never be able to justify playing somewhere else if I had already paid $2k to a course.

[Lagavulin62]

We were members of this small 9 hole course in the mid to late 70’s. The cost was 25 a month for the family. Great deal even back then. Not the best course but in NE Texas the fairways were mostly nice due to all the rain the area gets. It had a small pool, a little larger than you might see in someone’s backyard. A huge area to hit your own balls and surprisingly I don’t even remember if it had a putting green. All I can say is it was one of two options in the whole city, unless you were a member of the other 9 hole course.

[SilverBullets]

I was a member at a club like described in #1 and it was great. Then it became too far from my job so I joined a really nice full blown country club. I used the pool twice a year, never used the gym... I had a gym membership at a place closer to my house, never attended a social event and never ate dinner there unless I was grabbing a quick bite after I played on a weekday.

 

I'm all about the golf and the course. I have zero desire to use the pool, gym or any of the social elements of the club.

[unrepentant 60s kid]

1. Would you join a course that is just golf? No pool, tennis, fine dining, gym . It may have a snack bar. Golf course is great and dues are moderate say $2000 a year.

2. Would you join a course that allows you only to play golf at certain times say after 1 . No real club house privledges. Course is outstanding and national ranked. Dues in the $3000 + range.

3.Could you sell this to your wife?

 

I like spending time at my club other than playing golf.

It's not the highest brow private club in the area by any means

but it's a pleasant place to hang out and to socialize.

[Swamprat]

I am a member of #1. it also has a snack bar and cheap beer.

[moegolfer11]

Played Sweetens Cove recently, literally has a shack for a clubhouse. I would rather be a member there, than my 18 hole country club with excess amenities (that I do not use).

[bazinky]

Don't need a fancy clubhouse or pool, but with the state of my game I can't imagine being a member at a course without a bar!

[Hogan9]

I would love to be a member of a golf only club. I joined my current club 35 years ago when my kids were young and my wife played tennis. We used the pool frequently and attended social events. Today all I do is play golf two or three times a week and drink a couple of beers after the round. The dues (and assessments) have increased to the point where I feel like I'm wasting money. However, in one more year I will move to senior member status where my dues drop by 40%. Even then it will still be expensive. I've considered leaving but the club is .9 miles from my house. Since there aren't any other attractive options available, I will hang in there until I can no longer physically play.

[blarkin97]

1. Would you join a course that is just golf? No pool, tennis, fine dining, gym . It may have a snack bar. Golf course is great and dues are moderate say $2000 a year.

2. Would you join a course that allows you only to play golf at certain times say after 1 . No real club house privledges. Course is outstanding and national ranked. Dues in the $3000 + range.

3.Could you sell this to your wife?

 

I already belong to #1. Municipal course around here that has gotten much better over the last couple years and dues are about $500 for the whole year. Have a snack bar and a high school type locker room with a few toilets and showers that never get used.

 

#2 would be impossible as I play a lot of golf early in the morning to get through my rounds before 10am

 

#3 is easy when you tell her the fees are only $500 for the year and as much golf as you could want. No chance I could sell $3000+ range

[Hogan9]

Twenty years ago I joined a golf only club near Clinton SC called Musgrove Mill. It's about an hour and a half from Charlotte, but I had a customer in the same area.

I played there at least once a month for two years.I had a couple of friends that played there and I loved every round although it was a very difficult course (Slope was 140). However, I lost the customer so I dropped out of the club. Now that I'm retired I've thought about re-joining, but it is too far away to make it feasible. Also, it probably won't suit my "senior" game now.

[alcap26]

Public course here golf only with a small grill and nice range. 1000 bucks a year to be a member. Great Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday game and good tournament schedule. Don’t need the rest. Have tennis courts at our alma mater less than 5 minutes that we have access to anytime other than when they practice and the neighbors give us unlimited access to their pool. I’m good.

[Matt J]

I would prefer it. I don't care if they start us out if the maintenance barn.

 

I think in the right market, a really pure golf course with a locker room, nothing special like a gym, club storage, and a self-serve beer bar (just chit slips and stocked coolers of beer, mixers for someone who wants to leave a bottle in their locker), would be the cat's meow. Probably all-male.

[fairways4life]

"Golf" only is the "the" only way in my opinion. I would love to see more clubs do away with the big clubhouses and other unnecessary amenities. You can keep dues so much lower when you aren't financing a $3 million clubhouse. You can devote a greater portion of the dues to the actual golf course and probably make some gains in shedding the whole "elitist" stereotype and maybe bring some more people into the game with greater affordability.

 

Unfortunately, it seems like these types of clubs are an endangered species. There are about a dozen private clubs within 30 minutes from me and not a single one abides by this model.

[Schley]

 

Unfortunately, it seems like these types of clubs are an endangered species. There are about a dozen private clubs within 30 minutes from me and not a single one abides by this model.

 

So what does that tell you?

[FairwayFred]

For me the golf course is #1 and only priority. I was a member at basically a golf only club when I lived in the south. I loved the way that club worked. Just show up and play golf. Never busy. Loved the course too. The people and internal politics were another thing entirely however. Now I am a member at a club up in MI and it's a whole full family club with a pool etc. I like the course even better but I don't like how busy it is. My kids enjoy the pool and my wife likes hanging out there and I like all the people there pretty much. I prefer the golf only club and would go back to that setup if I could keep my current course. I guess for me give me the course I enjoy the most and I won't worry about the rest.

 

Also I would not join a place that restricted my ability to play.