Fan Hit by Koepka's Drive - **MERGED TOPICS**

[MtlJeff]

They should do their best to clear general landing areas , and not allow fans to form those narrow tunnels when pros are hitting escape shots

 

Other than that, not much you can do except pay a settlement every 5-7 years

[MtlJeff]

Its funny to me that something terrible happens and people automatically say “someone owes me money”

 

Who would pay if a meteorite dropped from the sky on your foot and broke it?

 

Somebody owes me!

 

The laws run amok sometimes but the idea behind them makes sense. It's for everyone's protection that you can't just host something that endangers people

 

And it's furthermore for everyone's benefit that you mostly can't waive your right to certain things

 

Some lawsuits are frivolous. But the opposite is probably much worse.

[Golfer4Life]

Perhaps tour events should be closed to the public. If you want to watch, pay per view.

 

There you go!

[wcbjr]

[pinhigh27]

Yell fore and the Marshalls spotting balls should pay attention and warn people.

 

If you can't hear fore from 270 out then what is the point of yelling? You definitely can hear. Not yelling is negligent.

 

Of course there is an element of risk but you have to take some basic steps to mitigate risk. For instance if there was no net directly behind home plate that would be extremely risky.

[bladehunter]

This is a joke...Nobody forced her to attend the event. Nobody forced her to stand in a landing zone.

(1) What could the event organizers done? Maybe they should just remove all fans. Keeps fans safe. Keeps players from getting breaks on errant shots.

(2) What did she do to prevent getting hit? I have been to both the memorial and bridgestone invitational twice. I never once stood 20 yards in front of the tee box. Never stood in the landing area for drives. My eye-sight is corrected to 20/20 but I usually can track a shot even if I am few hundred yards away. Maybe she was not paying attention?

 

Either way, spectators should take some personal responsibility.

 

Your question #1 is really what the lawsuit would deal with I suppose. I am guessing the argument would be that if the situation was knowingly dangerous, the tournament should not have allowed people to stand there.

 

Much as we would sometimes like, stupidity isn't always accountability. If you host something, the law seems to think in some cases that you have a responsibility to protect people from their stupidity

 

Remember the most notorious case ever.... someone getting awarded 1M for spilling coffee on themselves

 

Read that coffee case again. It wasnt that simple. Its was due to neglegance on mcdonalds part.

 

Yep, its funny people use that as the height of ridiculousness. The media made it seem that way because it sold papers, but it really wasnt so simple as the headlines screamed it was.

 

I read the case again...it was because the coffee was served "too" hot as to constitute a burn hazard. But again, you could just as easily argue that it's the consumers responsibility not to pour it on themselves.

 

Re-reading the case actually was fun because I had forgotten the legal arguments I suppose. But if anything, it doesn't change my thoughts here. The case probably had merit even though many would still argue its ridiculous and on the consumer

 

no such thing as coffee thats "too hot'.... If you spill coffee on yourself ..you get what you get . Its a mentality that i personally dont understand .. Its along the lines of people who can never go to a restaurant without sending their food back or running the waiter/waitress around for 20 trips back and forth for "more" everything... This is the same person who thinks sue everytime they stub their toe. People are unwilling to accept their responsibility in things , and in the instance of sending food back i gave, they are unwilling to just accept that sometimes you just have a bit of bad luck ... So what , my potatoes arent piping hot.. eat them and shut up ..Thats what i do, everytime.. Ive never sent a meal back in my life.

 

I guess my opinion is due to my 17 years in business. The business has been sued a couple times. Once because a customer , after completion of a project , complained that he saw materials priced on our invoice higher than some he found elsewhere ... 3 months later. Takes us to small claims court for $3k.... If not for outrage of our attorney the judge was inclined to give him half to "shut him up"... Our attorney almost did a backflip when the judge tells us this in private before he ruled..eventually it was thrown out. But still cost me $1500 plus in fees and day off work.

 

 

In the case of this poor fan.. I absolutely think that she should be taken care of.. By that i mean all her bills etc .. BUT her part of the responsibility is that she attended and stood in a very unsafe spot .. A spot that any fans knows isnt really danger free. Its a sad sad happening , but its roughly 50/50 blame at best .. probably more 75-25 with the 75 being the fans responsibility .. They do not have assigned seating with a ticket and can move freely to any number of safer vantage points.

[golfandfishing]

Putting signs up increases the liability for the tour. They are basically admitting the area is unsafe and they are aware of it, but not willing to do any more than warn. Right or wrong, in a court’s eyes this increases their negligence.

 

Put up a Beware of Dog sign, then have your dog bite someone. Their lawyer will use that sign against you 100% of the time.

[Simp]

There's a guy with a big white or yellow paddle that let's people know where the ball is headed. Pay attention.

[Socrates]

Quite a lot of people that go to events are clueless about golf. Most of the time if a warning is issued, rather than turn away from the direction the "fore" came from, they turn to look. Exposing themselves to greater danger.

 

In many cases, the people are standing in an area they think the next ball will be played from and want to get a good vantage point if they are correct. The inherent danger is that they are in the landing area and you would think they would be really paying attention while the group they are watching tees off.

[DavePelz4]

It's the same with baseball. Fans want to be as close as possible to get the ultimate experience. Fans want to feel like they're on the field.

 

We all understand the risks at sporting events. The challenge with golf is that the ball is still in play when it goes stray, unlike baseball, so you can't put covers or glass enclosures around the fans. People placement will always be second guessed when these things happen.

 

It's unfortunate and a challenging situation. There's not much time for a warning, and hearing the warning is difficult from far away as mentioned.

 

MLB has been pretty aggressive with requiring netting down the first and third base lines to address the issue. Not sure it's as easy to replicate on a golf course though.

[me05501]

Being hit by a ball is among the known risks when you attend an event where balls are being hit.

 

It's sort of like riding a motorcycle. You're accepting certain risks in exchange for an experience. Some of us are unwilling to accept that risk, and we miss out on the experience. That's life.

[golfandfishing]

Being hit by a ball is among the known risks when you attend an event where balls are being hit.

 

It's sort of like riding a motorcycle. You're accepting certain risks in exchange for an experience. Some of us are unwilling to accept that risk, and we miss out on the experience. That's life.

 

Motorcycle riders sue people regularly, some law firms specialize in accidents involving riders.

[dcmidnight]

Would love to know where exactly she was - AND what she expected the RC to do to make it "safer".

 

Even if she had heard someone yell fore initially - which I doubt given the distance from the 6th tee and the wind and the massive crowds - but there's no way to immediately tell where it was coming from. I think that spot is @ 300 yards off the 6th tee - but also 250 yards off the tee of the hole parallel to it *and* within shouting distance of the next tee box.

[Retsdon]

Quite a lot of people that go to events are clueless about golf. Most of the time if a warning is issued, rather than turn away from the direction the "fore" came from, they turn to look. Exposing themselves to greater danger.

 

And there's the problem. Shouting 'fore' is pointless if half the people have no idea what it means. They need to come up with some other more universally recognized danger signal.

[Hawkeye77]

Would love to know where exactly she was - AND what she expected the RC to do to make it "safer".

 

Even if she had heard someone yell fore initially - which I doubt given the distance from the 6th tee and the wind and the massive crowds - but there's no way to immediately tell where it was coming from. I think that spot is @ 300 yards off the 6th tee - but also 250 yards off the tee of the hole parallel to it *and* within shouting distance of the next tee box.

 

Looked like she was in the long rough just to the right side (looking from the tee) of the green. There's a pretty good vid out there, sorry I don't have time to link it, that showed him teeing off, hearing the cries of "fore" and seeing the crowd around her spot right when/after the ball hit her.

[Hawkeye77]

Quite a lot of people that go to events are clueless about golf. Most of the time if a warning is issued, rather than turn away from the direction the "fore" came from, they turn to look. Exposing themselves to greater danger.

 

And there's the problem. Shouting 'fore' is pointless if half the people have no idea what it means. They need to come up with some other more universally recognized danger signal.

 

Actually, they really don't. Knowing what it means is pretty basic to golf and that core tradition/warning whatever you want to call it is all part of why you won't see and don't want to see people banned from any reasonable access to the sides of fairways or unwieldy and silly barriers to try and anticipate every possible bad outcome.

 

Accidents are going to happen, but it really is part of the well known risk (and the OMG somebody isn't a golfer or might not know angst is just opening up the floodgates).

[lopey986]

 

no such thing as coffee thats "too hot'.... If you spill coffee on yourself ..you get what you get.

 

Lol the coffee was hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns that required 8 days in the hospital and extensive skin graft surgery. So, yes, that is "too hot" and has nothing to do with "a mentality", it's gross negligence on the part of McDonalds.

[Socrates]

Quite a lot of people that go to events are clueless about golf. Most of the time if a warning is issued, rather than turn away from the direction the "fore" came from, they turn to look. Exposing themselves to greater danger.

 

And there's the problem. Shouting 'fore' is pointless if half the people have no idea what it means. They need to come up with some other more universally recognized danger signal.

If they are going to a golf event and don't know what "fore" means, maybe they shouldn't be going?

[doublehans]

Usually the injuries are nasty bruises, maybe a fracture in some circumstances. But generally the sorts of things that heal up over time without a lot of medical care needed. So I wonder if the PGAT has any sort of internal practice on this, like just paying for any medical care. I wouldn’t be surprised. Of course, for legal reasons they aren’t going to promise that on your ticket. And this was the Ryder Cup so not relevant to her. But given that the total costs involved in the big picture are unlikely to be large (just talking medical costs, the PGAT would likely contest anything else), severe injuries like this aren’t the norm, the PGAT may just cover injuries already. Not only is it a good way to keep bad press away and perhaps the right thing to do as well, but it’s probably cheaper and less trouble than trying to add a bunch of safety precautions.

 

Pure speculation I know. But it’s also the sort of thing where the PGAT would for liability reasons never tell you are covered even if they do it after the fact.

[cvhookem63]

This picture of Brooks Koepka for a Golf Digest shoot (from August) did not age well...

 

[ProphetLogic]

Maybe they should stop selling tickets. People can sit on their nice safe couches in front of their TVs.

[manku]

What dogleg at Riviera? I don't even think there is one, though a couple holes have a slight bend.

[stanger37]

1) marshal signals which way the ball is headed and there is typically a little sign of panic from the players and officials on the tee that just hit a ball into a bunch of people. pay attention and take a hint if you are in that general direction.

 

2) 50,000 people on a course which what they estimated were at the RC everyday, odds increase drastically of someone getting hit.

 

3) for the amount of golf tournaments there are every weekend year round and not having life-altering events like this every weekend tells me this is a freak accident. No one meant for this to happen. At least I don't think Brooks aimed at a pool of people anyways. And if anything I hope this getting widespread news on the media will bring awareness going to golf tournaments. But on the other hand with it getting this much media attention, bunch of non-golf attenders are going to have an opinion. No need to act like this is an epidemic.

 

I would be very shocked to hear that she will have to pay for her own medical bills. She'll probably get tickets to some PGA/Euro tour events if she wants to attend again. There isn't an amount of money that will bring her eye back unfortunately. I hope she is an avid golfer and tournament attender and has some sort of understanding that this isn't typical and what happens at golf events.

[avrag]

The severity of the injury should not dictate liability.

 

+1000

But it seems to be impossible to explain that to people who don't know the law, no matter in which country.

[DFS PFD]

There is a clear and present risk of serious injury at sporting events such as golf, baseball, and hockey. Anyone who claims to have been unaware or uninformed of those risks is delusional.

[MK7Golf21]

Most the stories I’ve seen of bloodied spectators are usually wives or girls brought by people and don’t know a thing about golf from the looks of them. I guessing they don’t understand what’s going on and get hit

[cvhookem63]

There has been some discussion of this over in the 'Fan hit by Koepka's drive' thread. I don't think there is any real way to prevent all of these types of accidents. As long as fans are able to stand along the fairway - these incidents will sporadically occur. Even with marshals signaling / the player pointing and yelling 'FORE' it is hard to see where the ball is going from the side of the fairway.

 

I am betting Brooks wishes he could have this particular photo from his August Golf Digest shoot back.

 

[doublehans]

The severity of the injury should not dictate liability.

 

+1000

But it seems to be impossible to explain that to people who don't know the law, no matter in which country.

 

That’s true in theory, but in practice any case will be about whether safety precautions are adequate and the nature of potential injuries is a factor there. Perhaps more importantly tho, going to court is expensive, so it’s gonna take a severe injury to bother with an attorney to contest any safety issues.

 

Plus of course, we are also talking French Law here so there could be some wrinkle those of coming from a US/English legal tradition wouldn’t expect.

[chigolfer1]

This picture of Brooks Koepka for a Golf Digest shoot (from August) did not age well...

 

 

Unbelievable

[PappyVanWinkle53]

There has been some discussion of this over in the 'Fan hit by Koepka's drive' thread. I don't think there is any real way to prevent all of these types of accidents. As long as fans are able to stand along the fairway - these incidents will sporadically occur. Even with marshals signaling / the player pointing and yelling 'FORE' it is hard to see where the ball is going from the side of the fairway.

 

I am betting Brooks wishes he could have this particular photo from his August Golf Digest shoot back.

 

 

Premonition, perhaps??