Grooving slight OTT move

[cardoustie]

Want to give this a run for a repeatable fade... feels good at the range. Just think I need to learn how to make sure it falls right and isn't a aimed left shot that starts left and draws.

 

Thinking Irwin and Lietzke type moves

 

Open to any and all pointers and personal experiences

 

Seems like an easier move for a bigger and less flexible guy. I want to be less hands at the bottom

[ChrisSP]

Want to give this a run for a repeatable fade... feels good at the range. Just think I need to learn how to make sure it falls right and isn't a aimed left shot that starts left and draws.

 

Thinking Irwin and Lietzke type moves

 

Open to any and all pointers and personal experiences

 

Seems like an easier move for a bigger and less flexible guy. I want to be less hands at the bottom

 

This video might be of some help to you - specifically the third swing shape that McLean discusses.

 

I definitely found it interesting and thought of it when I read your post.

 

[cardoustie]

great video, thanks for sharing

[PreppySlapCut]

Love it. Look at Gore’s move, as well. Stockier guy who just flushes it.

[gators78]

Want to give this a run for a repeatable fade... feels good at the range. Just think I need to learn how to make sure it falls right and isn't a aimed left shot that starts left and draws.

 

Thinking Irwin and Lietzke type moves

 

Open to any and all pointers and personal experiences

 

Seems like an easier move for a bigger and less flexible guy. I want to be less hands at the bottom

 

For my money Lietzke has the #1 all time best swing. He absolutely never practiced and just flushed it.

[cwglum]

I've been way too far underneath and from the inside coming into the ball for some years now. I've had improvement recently by hitting the 'outside of the ball at the range, swinging what feels like way left, getting hands arms out in front of my body through the ball. I'll even hit balls into the trees left of the range. Need to see divots tailing to the left to zero out my path into the ball.

[gentles]

Made me think of this video with DJ

 

 

The more I think about it the more wisdom there is in it....if you're trying to hit a fade the most important thing is to fade it!

 

OP - lots of ways to hit a consistent fade - at the end of the day the only think that matters is that the path is left of the face angle at impact...everything else is style.

 

A few things that have helped me are to try groove the fade with a solid left wrist...it's easy to get the face open by cupping the left wrist at the top, but that can get out of control very quickly...I prefer the Trevino/DJ type of fade that is achieved with lots of body rotation

 

Might be a useful exercise to jump on a sim and experiment with different swings and see what it does to your path and face angles? From what i read, path tends to vary much less than face angle.

[vanillafunk616]

I'd say you should check Freddie Couples out. Get that club upright with a super cupped left wrist at the top, and you can hit it as hard as you want without it going left.

[getitdaily]

Is your backswing inside/under?

 

Or is your backswing on plane/on too of plane?

 

[cardoustie]

Is your backswing inside/under?

 

Or is your backswing on plane/on too of plane?

 

I am playing with the backswing

 

Used to be inside and under

 

Any other tips, sorry for delay in answering, was off in Europe for almost a month .. no golf or golfwrx but I did get to see some big guys play at Valderamma

[getitdaily]

Is your backswing inside/under?

 

Or is your backswing on plane/on too of plane?

 

I am playing with the backswing

 

Used to be inside and under

 

Any other tips, sorry for delay in answering, was off in Europe for almost a month .. no golf or golfwrx but I did get to see some big guys play at Valderamma

 

Lots of really good players played an inside to ott swing...lietzke and Christie Kerr immediately come to mind.

 

Tempo has to be really good, especially transition.

[The Pearl]

[PowderedToastMan]

Hogan used to hit big cuts with long irons on the range to engrain the feel you’re looking for.

[cardoustie]

On 11/10/2018 at 5:59 AM, The Pearl said:

New favourite video

[MPAndreassi]

16 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

New favourite video

This is a great video. I’ve been working on trying to get rid of a similar movement this winter. I’m a fairly good ball striker, and if I miss greens it’s due to something other than my ball striking. I may be overthinking it and chasing aesthetics. 

[cardoustie]

Looking at my swing vids, I def. make this move when I am swinging well

 

Last few rounds and range sessions here I am working on it and the caliber of strikes and HIGH high fades are really solid

 

For me it is a function of inside going back forces me to do a better coil / torso / shoulder turn (I am not a flexible guy) and then letting my hands move towards the ball before starting down gets me unstuck.  I am a bigger guy with a barrel chest and gut so this is part of the equation no doubt.  Keeping the club coming from the inside is not a big deal 

 

Monte saw my swing in a post last year and said I make it work with my recovery to come down ... and I know from past lessons with a Trackman guru my bad move is coming from way too far inside.  My right shoulder per the guru has mobility issues as well so maybe this is part of the equation?

[TheDeanAbides]

Dariusz used to write about this a lot before his permaban. I miss his vodka fuelled rants. 

 

http://biokineticgolfswing.blogspot.com/2011/03/ott-from-inside.html

[dlygrisse]

Snead had a bit of this move along with Jones, Irwin and Lietzke. But if you really want to commit here is what has to happen. 
 

You have to ditch the Miller/Nicklaus avatar. You need to start growing a mustache.  Then channel your inner Craig Stadler. 
 

 

[cardoustie]

I was on his site last night, a lot of way too technical stuff for me but the old vids of the greats swings from the past helped me visualize the top of swing transition better

 

Jim MacLean nails the move up in his video starting at about 8:15 .. it’s just the reverse of a Couples  move

 

I think Ray Floyd made the same “loop”

[cardoustie]

Shut face fader

2 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

Snead had a bit of this move along with Jones, Irwin and Lietzke. But if you really want to commit here is what has to happen. 
 

You have to ditch the Miller/Nicklaus avatar. You need to start growing a mustache.  Then channel your inner Craig Stadler. 
 

 

shut face fader looks like

[cardoustie]

 

[cardoustie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQLZZ6s1kA8

 

here is Floyd above, vid won’t embed

 

Side note Miller and Trevino on that vid, my goodness, Johnny in his prime was pure poetry

Edited February 6, 2021 by cardoustie

[Hstead]

I have studied a ton of Lietzke, Stadler, Gore, De Jonge, Boros, and a bunch of other guys that "came over it".  I have to try to feel like I do so I do not right tilt too early.

 

Chase is building my swing to fade only for the most part and wants my path 3 left with irons.  A feel he gave me that really clicked was to make my nose go down and left.  When I feel like I swing my nose down and left my shoulder also goes that way and then I stay in left tilt longer.  Then I control the rest with wrist angles to keep it from slicing too much. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Hstead

[Gsea]

[golfsticks]

Excellent article, thanks for posting.  It captures much especially the  In-and-Over swing path produces greater accuracy and more power, and one of the feels:  the right shoulder comes out to the ball,  but is more than just a feel, it does, in a restoration attitude.  

 

Knowing how to straighten out a pull move is an easy way to produce smash.  

[dlygrisse]

How do you grip the club with this technique, like Lietzke really strong and just hold off the CF?  Or weaker like Irwin?  Stadler looks pretty neutral 

[golfsticks]

Many, if not most,  grip a club with the purpose of putting the club into their hands.  A proper grip puts the club onto the arms via the hands, so there's not a lot of wiggle room doing that properly when the arms hang in their fundamental position.    With that attachment to the instrument there is nothing that cannot be accomplished within leveraged motion.

 

Would have to try the other grips to see what the outcomes would be, probably not much to overcome, but it wouldn't be a hold off of anything as the shoulders direct the drive and the hands follow. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by golfsticks

[Hstead]

3 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

How do you grip the club with this technique, like Lietzke really strong and just hold off the CF?  Or weaker like Irwin?  Stadler looks pretty neutral 

Personally, I have fiddled with both a more neutral weak-ish grip and a strong to very strong grip.  For me, if I get the grip to strong and the face too closed, I right tilt like monkey nuts.  I like to have a more open face at the top and a little more neutral grip so I do not right tilt too early.

[cardoustie]

Left hand strong ... right weak or neutral ... ymmv 

[Bogeyboy15]

I have hit some of my longest drives and solid iron shots using this method, the drawback has been pull shots and very little fade. I am sure it has to do with the club head not being open enough but not sure. I am a lefty playing right handed do that move feels very powerful to me,