Driver vs Driver 2

[linkerpan]

If you paid MSRP $449 exactly two years ago when the Triton came out, you have a trade value of $29.

 

Even with the Rogue 125?

 

Yup, is the PGA trade in value

 

Seeing $30-75 on eBay. Youd think the 125 is at least worth that.

 

If I could play 65g shafts I would be all over that. I play the Aldila Rogue 75, in 110. The cheapest 125 I found on 75g is around $150.

[QuigleyDU]

I hit this driver tonight and was sadly disappointed. I would love for this driver to perform, but it did not. I think I did not like it for two reason, it felt very light, the head is 40 percent carbon giving it a strange feel to me.

[jpdx]

Tim ended up taking a job with Nike in their engineering department https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/sports/college/oregon-state/2018/11/13/salem-man-falls-short-250-000-prize-driver-vs-driver-2/1934799002/

 

Article says he may have a few of the samples coming to him. If he plays some munis around Nike, Portland metro area, a real possibility I could run into him at some course, unlikely but possible. Wouldn’t that be something? Especially if he bags the Rozwell! Lol!

[jmiller2]

i had to finish watching the show just to see. I think everyone knew it was going to be Cortex, but the show truly lacked any true build up of anticipation. I applaud Wilson for their efforts - but does anyone see this going anywhere but in the red for them? EVEN if the thing outperforms, it would have to do so by a very large margin to get customers to switch over from M1s, Rogue SZs, G400s and TS3s. Beyond that, you are trying to compete at the same premium level/ price point? Just don't see it happening. Even if it was cheaper - I picked up my 2017 M2 for $150, pretty much in brand new condition. Just don't ever see myself spending $350 more than that on that driver...

 

I thought the buildup during the last episode was great until the Golf Channel ruined it.

 

I started laughing so hard when the advertisement at the bottom for RG popped up "Wining Driver Cortex now available" about 5-10 minutes before the reveal on the show itself.

[RichieHunt]

The counter-argument to that is it becomes like Nike used to be. The "MSRP" just provides an arbitrary point to discount based off of. There were Nike wedges listed at $140 MSRP for a month, then slashed to $99, where they'd stay for most of the year, under the guise of "30% off!" or "Sale - save $40". I'd argue that a brand doing that immediately cheapens its image more than pricing it there originally.

 

If Wilson really wanted to be a disruptor, they would sell the club very inexpensive - $200? - supported by a strong grassroots/ambassador/retail program. Just to get people back into the brand. Then once people are more supportive of the product itself, they could work their way towards the other brands' prices in coming years. OR they would do like Cobra is doing with their OL irons and offer free at-home trials for a certain period of time.

 

 

Unrelated - anyone else get the PGASS saying "Order Cortex" with an image of the final 3 or 4 designs, including a big "MAGNUS" front & center and the Cortex barely visible? Ha.

 

I've worked a lot in terms of pricing products. It goes beyond the actual sales and goes into future of the company.

 

The big responsibility of a President of a company like Tim Clarke is the brand. Sales could be very good, but if the brand is struggling or not where ownership wants it to be that's when heads start to roll.

 

For instance, I used to work for a company who had Home Shopping Network as a sister company. The idea came up to naturally sell our products on HSN at virtually the same price. But, we ended up not doing so just because our brand image was of a higher end, specialized product. And even though we would keep the prices the same on HSN, the issue is that HSN's brand image didn't jive with the brand image we sell our product as. Just by selling it on HSN, the product comes off as 'cheap.'

 

I don't necessarily think that pricing the Cortex at $499 to start is the best move, but I understand why Wilson is doing it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[RichieHunt]

I hit this driver tonight and was sadly disappointed. I would love for this driver to perform, but it did not. I think I did not like it for two reason, it felt very light, the head is 40 percent carbon giving it a strange feel to me.

 

I do wonder what the head weight is at. The Callaway Rogue heads are around 188 grams which is pretty light for a driver head.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[QuigleyDU]

I hit this driver tonight and was sadly disappointed. I would love for this driver to perform, but it did not. I think I did not like it for two reason, it felt very light, the head is 40 percent carbon giving it a strange feel to me.

 

I do wonder what the head weight is at. The Callaway Rogue heads are around 188 grams which is pretty light for a driver head.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

interesting, it felt much more solid. i think the oddness in the feel for the cortex is due to the construction. being 40ish % carbon, and the location of it.

[RayGorman]

If the head is THAT light, I'd struggle all day long. I'd lose "feel" of where it was at any given time. I have enough trouble with modern drivers as it is. My best driving and distance was with the steel headed drivers of the early 90's, a steel shaft, and the relatively hard balls of the day (Titleist Balata Tour 90's/100's). I could feel where it was on the backswing, when I 'dropped it into the slot' properly, etc...

 

<shrug> Progress moves on, and I've moved to my M3 in the last year, but it's still more of a struggle than it used to be... IMO...

[umassgolfer]

Would love to see Rick hit it head to head vs his g400 lst, allowing him to adjust the sliding weight to what works best for him.

 

Looks like the My Golf Spy guys are doing that exact comparison tonight according to twitter: LINK

[Holy Moses]

If the driver performs, the $499 price point won’t be an issue. I don’t see what the fuss is about.

[Scottie68]

If the driver performs, the $499 price point wont be an issue. I dont see what the fuss is about.

We are wrx members, we are fussy!

[salmon2]

If the driver performs, the $499 price point won't be an issue. I don't see what the fuss is about.

 

With the Ping G400 (for example) now selling for $299 it needs to really outperform some other very good clubs.

[Ri_Redneck]

I will probably pick one of these up to go in my Wilson bag around late '19. Atmos Blue X looks interesting or perhaps an Evenflow Black 75 6.5. Not to mention the head looks REALLY nice too. However, I will do a few things to it before putting it in play.

 

1. Remove the center weight completely. Only 8gm front to back does nothing. And it will probably be a tee/dirt magnet like the weight on the Fly-Z+.

2. Butt trim to 44.5 and add hotmelt to the back half of the clubhead (heel & toe) to balance it to my liking. Most of my driver heads weigh between 208 - 214 gms, with most in the back of the clubhead

3. Grip it with a nice GM Pittards Wrap leather grip sized to my specs.

 

With that, I will have a fine Wilson driver to go with my set of WS Tour Model irons. Can't say anything bad about the price. Tech costs what tech costs.

 

BT

[averysdad]

Popped in my local shop tonight and my guy had just put his cortex display up...I gotta be honest....the cortex looks great!!! Looks awesome at address and the bottom. I’m not in the market for a new driver but I’m dang sure going to hit it for fun! I hope it does well!

[Double Gee]

[tbone18]

I will probably pick one of these up to go in my Wilson bag around late '19. Atmos Blue X looks interesting or perhaps an Evenflow Black 75 6.5. Not to mention the head looks REALLY nice too. However, I will do a few things to it before putting it in play.

 

1. Remove the center weight completely. Only 8gm front to back does nothing. And it will probably be a tee/dirt magnet like the weight on the Fly-Z+.

2. Butt trim to 44.5 and add hotmelt to the back half of the clubhead (heel & toe) to balance it to my liking. Most of my driver heads weigh between 208 - 214 gms, with most in the back of the clubhead

3. Grip it with a nice GM Pittards Wrap leather grip sized to my specs.

 

With that, I will have a fine Wilson driver to go with my set of WS Tour Model irons. Can't say anything bad about the price. Tech costs what tech costs.

 

BT

You may not have to hot melt the head. I weighed one of the heads today and it was 207g with all the weights.

[ode1]

I will probably pick one of these up to go in my Wilson bag around late '19. Atmos Blue X looks interesting or perhaps an Evenflow Black 75 6.5. Not to mention the head looks REALLY nice too. However, I will do a few things to it before putting it in play.

 

1. Remove the center weight completely. Only 8gm front to back does nothing. And it will probably be a tee/dirt magnet like the weight on the Fly-Z+.

2. Butt trim to 44.5 and add hotmelt to the back half of the clubhead (heel & toe) to balance it to my liking. Most of my driver heads weigh between 208 - 214 gms, with most in the back of the clubhead

3. Grip it with a nice GM Pittards Wrap leather grip sized to my specs.

 

With that, I will have a fine Wilson driver to go with my set of WS Tour Model irons. Can't say anything bad about the price. Tech costs what tech costs.

 

BT

You may not have to hot melt the head. I weighed one of the heads today and it was 207g with all the weights.

 

Assuming this does not factor in the adapter, but ??

[tbone18]

I will probably pick one of these up to go in my Wilson bag around late '19. Atmos Blue X looks interesting or perhaps an Evenflow Black 75 6.5. Not to mention the head looks REALLY nice too. However, I will do a few things to it before putting it in play.

 

1. Remove the center weight completely. Only 8gm front to back does nothing. And it will probably be a tee/dirt magnet like the weight on the Fly-Z+.

2. Butt trim to 44.5 and add hotmelt to the back half of the clubhead (heel & toe) to balance it to my liking. Most of my driver heads weigh between 208 - 214 gms, with most in the back of the clubhead

3. Grip it with a nice GM Pittards Wrap leather grip sized to my specs.

 

With that, I will have a fine Wilson driver to go with my set of WS Tour Model irons. Can't say anything bad about the price. Tech costs what tech costs.

 

BT

You may not have to hot melt the head. I weighed one of the heads today and it was 207g with all the weights.

 

Assuming this does not factor in the adapter, but ??

correct. just head.

[Holy Moses]

I think DVD2 worked out really well for Wilson. They had Roenick to bring in the middle-aged crowd and MGS and Shiels for the younger crowd. Melanie was beautiful and smooth as always. The finale episode was really exciting and they did Tim a solid by paying for his last year of college. Yes the Golf Channel messed up with the premature ad for the winner, but not much harm done. The Cortex looks great, comes with some nice shafts, and performs (at least from the MGS test) almost as well as the G400 LST. No, there’s nothing groundbreaking about it, but it puts Wilson right with the big boys for now. But if you want to sell it at $499, it had to be better by a few MPH/yards than the G400 LST and have better dispersion than it. Ping, TaylorMade, and Callaway will soon release their 2019 drivers which will be just as expensive as the Cortex, but they will probably outperform it by a little more than the G400 already does. By then Wilson will have to drop the Cortex’s price to compete. But still, progress for Wilson.

[Hawkeye77]

Have a hard time believing too many people tuned in because of Roenick anymore than they would have tuned in to watch some baseball or football great who plays some golf. He was articulate and looks good on TV so checks a couple boxes. Shiels' presence would have drawn a lot of eyeballs. Was it good for him - sure. Was he drawing potentially thousands of viewers because of his platform? Definitely. That's why they had him there. He will translate into some sales. Roenick's minimal impact is over.

 

Will be interesting to see how this one does.

[Holy Moses]

Thought I read that DVD2 got over 3 million total views according to Clarke across multiple platforms. That sounds pretty good.

[new2g0lf]

The counter-argument to that is it becomes like Nike used to be. The "MSRP" just provides an arbitrary point to discount based off of. There were Nike wedges listed at $140 MSRP for a month, then slashed to $99, where they'd stay for most of the year, under the guise of "30% off!" or "Sale - save $40". I'd argue that a brand doing that immediately cheapens its image more than pricing it there originally.

 

If Wilson really wanted to be a disruptor, they would sell the club very inexpensive - $200? - supported by a strong grassroots/ambassador/retail program. Just to get people back into the brand. Then once people are more supportive of the product itself, they could work their way towards the other brands' prices in coming years. OR they would do like Cobra is doing with their OL irons and offer free at-home trials for a certain period of time.

 

 

Unrelated - anyone else get the PGASS saying "Order Cortex" with an image of the final 3 or 4 designs, including a big "MAGNUS" front & center and the Cortex barely visible? Ha.

 

I've worked a lot in terms of pricing products. It goes beyond the actual sales and goes into future of the company.

 

The big responsibility of a President of a company like Tim Clarke is the brand. Sales could be very good, but if the brand is struggling or not where ownership wants it to be that's when heads start to roll.

 

For instance, I used to work for a company who had Home Shopping Network as a sister company. The idea came up to naturally sell our products on HSN at virtually the same price. But, we ended up not doing so just because our brand image was of a higher end, specialized product. And even though we would keep the prices the same on HSN, the issue is that HSN's brand image didn't jive with the brand image we sell our product as. Just by selling it on HSN, the product comes off as 'cheap.'

 

I don't necessarily think that pricing the Cortex at $499 to start is the best move, but I understand why Wilson is doing it.

 

RH

 

Wilson is trying to leverage the show and capture early adopters at a premium price to help offset design and production costs. Once the hype wears off from the Driver vs Driver show, I expect a $100 price cut at or before the PGA Equipment show. Wilson took a lot of heat with the Triton because the adjustability was limited to sole plates and that it wasn't obvious looking at the driver on the rack that it had any adjustability. Most people (including myself) that bought the Triton did so for the shaft and were somewhat pleased with the performance.

 

The CorTex is obviously adjustable and is being paired with a great shaft so it should have a longer shelf life if it performs well for early adopters and they share their experiences.

[kiwii]

Will the Wilson Tour staff play it? Streelman had the Triton in play for what, one tournament?

 

He had the Triton in for a few tournaments. I'm thinking for about 1-2 months.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

I think it's really important that at least 2/4 of their staffers play it for a good chunk of the 2019 season and win with it if Wilson wants to have sustained success with the Cortex. But I guess you could also say that the Wilson Tour staff aren't big enough names to really move the club.

 

 

100% agree here. Tour Validation is HUGE. Wilson has awesome traction on this club right now. They need to continue with it and expand it. Also it would be wise to tie in the rest of their golf line along with the publicity of the DVD2. I think a huge chunk of golfer's who are watching the show/ seeing the ads/ and are curious bout this driver haven't considered Wilson's other golf clubs or products. Other posts mention that Wilson is lacking strength as a "brand" in golf but they have some serious potential and all they need is a spark to catch fire.

[joekelli]

I had the chance this morning to stop by my local Golf Galaxy to see and hit the Cortex. First impression is that the looks are awesome. From address it sits square to open for me and just looks great behind the ball. If I had to compare it to anything I would say it looks more like a Callaway driver with a better looking hosel. The sole looks just as good and definitely looks like a high end driver. I didn't have time to dial anything in, but I took a few swings with it and the sound and feel are very pleasing. The sound is muted with a nice powerful crack. definitely a huge improvement over the Triton! I have had some wrist issues recently so I was not swinging it very well but it seems like it will be a good performing head.

 

Instead of bashing Wilson and the Cortex I think everyone should at least give it a test drive first. It is not going to out perform all the other top drivers but it is going to be just as good, so it does give you another choice in the price range. On a side note, I have never paid more than $200 on a driver, so the $400+ price range for any of them are out of my league. My latest is my Ping G lst that I picked up for $180 and I hit it just fine!

[GoGoErky]

I had the chance this morning to stop by my local Golf Galaxy to see and hit the Cortex. First impression is that the looks are awesome. From address it sits square to open for me and just looks great behind the ball. If I had to compare it to anything I would say it looks more like a Callaway driver with a better looking hosel. The sole looks just as good and definitely looks like a high end driver. I didn't have time to dial anything in, but I took a few swings with it and the sound and feel are very pleasing. The sound is muted with a nice powerful crack. definitely a huge improvement over the Triton! I have had some wrist issues recently so I was not swinging it very well but it seems like it will be a good performing head.

 

Instead of bashing Wilson and the Cortex I think everyone should at least give it a test drive first. It is not going to out perform all the other top drivers but it is going to be just as good, so it does give you another choice in the price range. On a side note, I have never paid more than $200 on a driver, so the $400+ price range for any of them are out of my league. My latest is my Ping G lst that I picked up for $180 and I hit it just fine!

 

Nobody’s bashing Wilson or the cortex. It’s been a question of whether Wilson made the right choice on the price range for something that’s not demo stably better than its competitors offerings that are current on the market at or below the $500 price tag. Plus the fact stores aren’t getting proper fitting carts or even enough head/shaft offerings to do a decent fitting and in some cases no fitting equipment. That’s not a good thing if you are trying to sell a new product

[joekelli]

I had the chance this morning to stop by my local Golf Galaxy to see and hit the Cortex. First impression is that the looks are awesome. From address it sits square to open for me and just looks great behind the ball. If I had to compare it to anything I would say it looks more like a Callaway driver with a better looking hosel. The sole looks just as good and definitely looks like a high end driver. I didn't have time to dial anything in, but I took a few swings with it and the sound and feel are very pleasing. The sound is muted with a nice powerful crack. definitely a huge improvement over the Triton! I have had some wrist issues recently so I was not swinging it very well but it seems like it will be a good performing head.

 

Instead of bashing Wilson and the Cortex I think everyone should at least give it a test drive first. It is not going to out perform all the other top drivers but it is going to be just as good, so it does give you another choice in the price range. On a side note, I have never paid more than $200 on a driver, so the $400+ price range for any of them are out of my league. My latest is my Ping G lst that I picked up for $180 and I hit it just fine!

 

Nobody's bashing Wilson or the cortex. It's been a question of whether Wilson made the right choice on the price range for something that's not demo stably better than its competitors offerings that are current on the market at or below the $500 price tag. Plus the fact stores aren't getting proper fitting carts or even enough head/shaft offerings to do a decent fitting and in some cases no fitting equipment. That's not a good thing if you are trying to sell a new product

 

I am fine with them pricing it that high. It is a high end driver, and you are going to have guys that have more money than they know what to do with buy it. Then in a few months, once all the review video's come out and prove that it is a top end driver, they can lower the price a little to get that next tier of buyer. Once sales level off at that price they can lower it some more. I just know I will not get a Cortex until the Fourtex version is out!

[GoGoErky]

I had the chance this morning to stop by my local Golf Galaxy to see and hit the Cortex. First impression is that the looks are awesome. From address it sits square to open for me and just looks great behind the ball. If I had to compare it to anything I would say it looks more like a Callaway driver with a better looking hosel. The sole looks just as good and definitely looks like a high end driver. I didn't have time to dial anything in, but I took a few swings with it and the sound and feel are very pleasing. The sound is muted with a nice powerful crack. definitely a huge improvement over the Triton! I have had some wrist issues recently so I was not swinging it very well but it seems like it will be a good performing head.

 

Instead of bashing Wilson and the Cortex I think everyone should at least give it a test drive first. It is not going to out perform all the other top drivers but it is going to be just as good, so it does give you another choice in the price range. On a side note, I have never paid more than $200 on a driver, so the $400+ price range for any of them are out of my league. My latest is my Ping G lst that I picked up for $180 and I hit it just fine!

 

Nobody's bashing Wilson or the cortex. It's been a question of whether Wilson made the right choice on the price range for something that's not demo stably better than its competitors offerings that are current on the market at or below the $500 price tag. Plus the fact stores aren't getting proper fitting carts or even enough head/shaft offerings to do a decent fitting and in some cases no fitting equipment. That's not a good thing if you are trying to sell a new product

 

I am fine with them pricing it that high. It is a high end driver, and you are going to have guys that have more money than they know what to do with buy it. Then in a few months, once all the review video's come out and prove that it is a top end driver, they can lower the price a little to get that next tier of buyer. Once sales level off at that price they can lower it some more. I just know I will not get a Cortex until the Fourtex version is out!

 

If/when they lower the price the perception of the brand being cheap will only continue especially if they do it in less than 1 year. At $500 those with more money to do with unless already have a liking for Wilson are going to buy Titleist, Callaway, TM or Ping offerings right now because they are more proven brands that have performed and the numbers on the cortex aren’t significantly better than those brands, the rest currently looking will see the previous mentioned brands have currebt models at or lower than $500 and will go that route. The next tier down you talk about are going to buy the g400, rogue, epic, m3/4 because at that point they will still be lower than cortex and those who were considering Cortex are going to think why did Wilson drop the price so quick, was it performance, did they over price to start with and so on which is where the brand perception comes into play. The tier below that are going to buy only for the shaft of will wait a bit longer til it drops lower so they can get the shaft even cheaper.

 

[linkerpan]

A lot of slobs here criticizing the price. Now that Dicks is allowing them to get them at a 25% less, would they put their money on the product?

[Holy Moses]

A lot of slobs here criticizing the price. Now that Dicks is allowing them to get them at a 25% less, would they put their money on the product?

 

A Black Friday sale?

[mustang]

Tim ended up taking a job with Nike in their engineering department https://www.statesma...r-2/1934799002/

 

Article says he may have a few of the samples coming to him. If he plays some munis around Nike, Portland metro area, a real possibility I could run into him at some course, unlikely but possible. Wouldn't that be something? Especially if he bags the Rozwell! Lol!

Kid is my brothers neighbor in South Salem. His sister is a REAL deal college golfer. Several state championships and won the state amateur i believe. Nice to see Oregon State represented..