Prices in the UK

[YouDaHamHider]

[babyfade]

I will do a short Midlands trip end of April and play Notts, Woodhall Spa, Sherwood Forest, Little Aston and Beau Desert all between 65 and 75 per round.

They are all Heathland (except Little Aston) and should all be very playable end of April. What a bargain for such great courses.

[Londoner]

You will enjoy Woodhall Spa. Plenty of heather. One bunker you could put a double decker bus in! Everybody drops a ball in just to have a go at getting out.

[babyfade]

Thanks, I'm so excited. The course is on my bucket list for a while now.

I'm also looking forward to Notts. You only hear good things about it.

[milesgiles]

Still my inland U.K. favourite, it’s exceptional.

[duffer987]

Nice! I've played 3 of those 5 and would say it's my fave of those. Proper elevation changes there. Although Woodhall Spa is really cool, similarish to Ganton or Walton Heath, and one I'll definitely play again, not so much BD.

Did you take a look at Luffenham Heath or Northamptonshire County? Along with Sherwood Forest, those are three I've been meaning to play, especially LH.

[tiderider]

will do a similar trip end of may ... notts/alwoodley/ganton/woodhall spa ... great prices for top ranked courses ...

[babyfade]

i hear this a lot. have you played sunningdale? that's the only course that's higher on my list than WS.yes, actually I have really taken a look at them too. in the end I went with the higher ranked courses. you didn't like Beau Desert? the course seems pretty popular.alwoodley and ganton are also on my list for the future. they have both good twilight offers. :)

[El Gringo]

If you are playing Woodhall Spa do yourself a favour and play Seacroft, it's just down the road in Skegness (be sure to stay in W'Spa!). This links is surprisingly good and has been getting a face-lift from a young archie with a great eye for features.

 

You also may want to consider playing Moortown. It's one of the gang of excellent north of Watford Gap courses which fits in well with your list.

 

 

 

[milesgiles]

I haven’t played Sunningdale, St George’s Hill, Swinley etc and won’t unless I can get into an Open there. They all want well over £100 in the middle of the winter.. Recently played Woking, Worplesden, North Hants and Hindhead, still about £70 in the winter but my impression is that they are damn near as good as the top courses mentioned EXCEPT the practise facilities and ancillary bits aren’t quite at the same level.

I have played Ganton, Moortown, Alwoodley, Fulford, Sherwood, Coxmoor, Worksop etc and will be playing Beau Desert and the other heathland North Birmingham courses this year, all about £70 which these days is ok ish. I’m an average guy with average disposable and for me £100 is absolute top whack. I’ll simply never play most of the U.K. top 50.

backto the question, yes Notts is still my fave. Make sure the gorse is in flower the drive in is jaw dropping.

[Chanceman]

Definitely love to do the Brancaster, Woodhall Spa, Ganton, Alwoodley, Notts loop next time I go to the UK.

Adding in Cavendish, Delamere, Kington, Painswick and Minchinhampton as a great supporting cast.

Finishing off with Old Fold Manor where my old mate Cyril was a member.

[babyfade]

In April Gorse should be in flower, so it should get nice.

As you mentioned Surrey: Woking GC has no Driving Range and Short Game area, is this true? Do you know a course with good facilities? Have you played Liphook? How are the practice facilities there? Or at West Hill?

I also get your thoughts about green fees. There are a few courses that I paid a lot, but normally I am trying to do good deals.

 

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

That’s what I did after playing Tain on a golf trip last August. The course is a gem in itself and now that my buddies and I will go to Scotland every year, the Country Membership at Tain is a great deal- Dornoch for £20.

We went in August 19 and Dornoch was £180 regular fee and £130 after 5 pm. We played the Struie course then, just too expensive.

So we looked for the hidden gems in the Highlands and there’s many of them. Brora (not so hidden but affordable), Fortrose&Rosemarkie, Golspie, to name a few.

My buddy is an overseas member at Dufftown and it’s so authentic- you can find these courses easily and even get better rates with GolfNow.

Nairn, Castle Stuart, Trump Aberdeen- I‘d love to play them but can’t justify the green fees.

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

That’s what I did after playing Tain on a golf trip last August. The course is a gem in itself and now that my buddies and I will go to Scotland every year, the Country Membership at Tain is a great deal- Dornoch for £20.

We went in August 19 and Dornoch was £180 regular fee and £130 after 5 pm. We played the Struie course then, just too expensive.

So we looked for the hidden gems in the Highlands and there’s many of them. Brora (not so hidden but affordable), Fortrose&Rosemarkie, Golspie, to name a few.

My budd is an overseas member at Dufftown and it’s so authentic- you can find these courses easily and even get better rates with GolfNow.

Nairn, Castle Stuart, Trump Aberdeen- I‘d love to play them but can’t justify the green fees

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

That’s what I did after playing Tain on a golf trip last August. The course is a gem in itself and now that my buddies and I will go to Scotland every year, the Country Membership at Tain is a great deal- Dornoch for £20.

We went in August 19 and Dornoch was £180 regular fee and £130 after 5 pm. We played the Struie course then, just too expensive.

So we looked for the hidden gems in the Highlands and there’s many of them. Brora (not so hidden but affordable), Fortrose&Rosemarkie, Golspie, to name a few.

My budd is an overseas member at Dufftown and it’s so authentic- you can find these courses easily and even get better rates with GolfNow.

Nairn, Castle Stuart, Trump Aberdeen- I‘d love to play them but can’t justify the green fees

[milesgiles]

If they have anypractise area at Woking it’s well hidden and not near the clubhouse. You have to get in your car at hindhead and then again to get to the short game area! Worplesden has a small area, no room for a wood. It’s just a quirk that reflects the age of the courses and to a lot of people won’t be remotely important. North Hants has a more modern setup, Notts has a practise area that I wasn’t allowed on for some reason, still love it.

i May not bother with West Hill in the immediate future since it’s right next to Worplesden and I’m sure very similar. Liphook and West Sussex (Pulborough) are on my list for sure.

[duffer987]

Indeed, it is REALLY popular with one person on here ;-) It's solid no doubt, I just wouldn't go out of my way or explicitly dictate plans to play it, personally I prefer the other heathland tracks I've played to it. And since those have been from pretty darn good to absolutely fantastic courses, it's no huge slight against it. You're going to have an enjoyable round there :-)

[duffer987]

The difference in the clubs and the difference in their prices, is not about facilities. IMHO Sunny Old and St. George's Hill , along with West Sussex, are about as good as it gets in my books, and Swinley isn't far behind

St. George's Hill doesn't charge the rates they do because they have a couple practice nets and a practice green to use and Swinley doesn't because they happen to have a practice green and a disused field to bang balls in.

Hindhead's set up is as good with a range and practice greens, Alwoodley's clubhouse is hardly a block of council flats, when compared to any of the others, and Notts is like entering an estate, it has more of these practice facilities and ancillary bits than most others.

If you have a bee in your bonnet about what some clubs charge that's fair enough. There are places I don't go to or return to because I think their rates are bonkers for what you get.

[milesgiles]

Well at what they are charging, I’ll never know, will I?

its not about having a ‘bee in my bonnet’. I’m on other (non golf) forums and most people like to give it the big un and make out that three or four hundred dollars for a 4 hour game of golf is ‘no big deal’ yadda yadda... whether you really think that, I couldn’t care less, I’m making a more nuanced point.

top 200 courses in the U.K. have doubled in visitor price in less than 15 years. Wages have barely moved in 10. I was going to go to South Wales this summer, there’s no particular reason it should be that expensive, never had an Open, but Porthcawl is 200, Kyle and Pfenfig and Pennard 90-100.. ridiculous. And by the way, empty. My club tour used to go to Kent and Southport. Impossible now. In Scotland, these prices now are knocking on to the next tier of courses, especially if they are in the vicinity of somewhere more famous.

ill remind you, and this will go way over your head, that golf was supposed to be an egalitarian game for everyone. That’s long gone, clubs are shutting, less are playing, millennials are onto other things.

 

Ps hollinwell was £70 three years ago. £110 this summer. Another one I won’t be going back to

[El Gringo]

West Hill is not really that similar to Worpy. Worpy (seriously under rated imo) is more akin to Woking and better than West Hill or Liphook though all are good courses. I think Liphook is currently going through some major work to rectify a terrible road crossing. I would make enquiries before visiting as I don't know the works schedule. On paper, it looks like course may be improved when all is said and done. All the golf down London way is expensive. Even a bit removed Huntercombe has the bug and raised its fees a ton in the past few years.

A few courses not often mentioned include Stoneham near Southampton. It recently cleared a ton of trees and improved the bunkering...very good course on a hilly property. Knole Park near 7 Oaks is also very good. A bit closer to London, Addington is an excellent design let down by presentation. I think there are plans to do something about this so keep an eye out. If the budget is the big worry, there is no better value around than Reigate Heath.

[milesgiles]

I rate Worplesden very highly. I don’t think there are a hundred better U.K. courses. Stoneham is a tough walk but pretty good, top 200 possibly.

[duffer987]

That private clubs have increased their guest rates in excess of inflation/CPI/whatever metric you want to use is a given. As clubs they can charge what they want and do. If they make that work for whatever their club metrics/concerns are, bully for them. As visiting golfers we make a value judgement and will/won't play accordingly.

Anyways to the egalitarian nature of things, there are a shedload of cheap and cheerful public golf courses around (and some top notch 'clubs' as EG points out with Reigate Heath) you can play as an adult for 25quid or so or go out in the afternoon and play for 1/2 that, with annual passes/memberships that work out really cheap per round. Heck there's a annual pass for 400quid/35 month that covers 8 public courses in Ayrshire. For driving age teens it's 100quid/year or 9 a month. That's a great deal IMHO, all within the 'vicinity of somewhere more famous'. There is lots of accessibility still out there and as you point out the yoof are not taking it up at a decent enough replacement rate, but having Notts drop their rates from 110 to 90 quid has zero, absolutely zero to do with that.

None of these top whatever clubs owes you a cheap green fee, just because you are an earnest golfer and want to play there.

Here in the Bay Area my four regular courses cost $52/$48/$48/$46 per round prime time Sat/Sun morning; should Pasatiempo drop their $200-something morning rates because I like golf and can talk about the good doctor? Of course not.

[milesgiles]

Memberships aren’t the issue. They are mostly very good value. Green fees on top 200 courses that you might play casually or on holiday are the issue. The typical buffoons that run golf clubs struggle to get members and think by putting visitor fees up they can make up the shortfall.

This is nonsense on toast. I’m near the Grove, Watford, which had the Amex that tiger won years ago. I’d happily pay 70 quid occasionally for it, but in the summer it wants twice that and more. The kicker is when I drive past it, I’ve never seen a single person on it! It has gone bust too many times to mention. I’m told Brocket Hall has now shut (had an lpga and challenge tour events). Exact same story. I’d have played it once a year at least if they were asking something sensible and im sure plenty would have done the same, but no, let’s ask twice the price and keep it empty. Brilliant.

 

[duffer987]

Funnily enough back in the day when the a412/a411 were full up, I'd go around Chandler's Cross to/from work and would see the ocassional group down that back stretch the other side of Grove Mill lane (think it's a par 3 and two par 4s). I've never played it, when I lived there we'd play other Herts/Beds cheap rounds and returning as a travelling golfer it's never struck me as great value. Maybe I'll eventually get there and play during their twilight rates. I've never been put out by it. They make their money on corporate events and have managed to stay open for what 15 years now. They must be OK with their business model, so be it.

With Brocket Hall, AFAIK it's not simply a oh lower green fees, they had 900 members at one point and I am sure as you know, who got turfed during the first upheaval, and have had years of ownership battles between them, Lord Brocket and the accompanying, private/public/resort back and forths

OK cool, so we agree there is good value golf to be played and this isn't an accessibility or egalitarian golfing thing :-) It really comes down to your personal high water mark for daily green fees and having too many courses above that, that you want to play. OK fair enough, but what about the person who's mark is a tenner below that or maybe even twenty? Now the same POV has simply been realigned, but is still there.

More common here in North America, than the UK, but lots of people over here could list courses that started private or were public with seasons passes, that for whatever reason got in trouble and started chasing more revenue via all sorts of reduced fees, different payment options, different business models. Lots of those closed, as the golfers weren't there at $75/round anymore than they were there at $100. Courses such as Notts, Huntercombe, three Ws, lowering their guest rates would be a worse sign for the strength of golf than having them increase unfortunately.

[milesgiles]

im certain the Grove has had several different owners, going bust each time. Brocket has sacked all the members off twice without a penny, only to resurface under a different name but with the same people in charge. Know 3 people that lost 50k each on their debentures.

your main argument is just a strawman im afraid. If $100 is ok why not $150? $200? There’s no excuse for shoving up green fees as fast as they have in the last couple of years. When we get like Scotland, and the next rank of courses also get more expensive (let’s say those ranked 200-400) what then? Too many lower ranked courses are shutting and that’s severely limiting U.K. travel options. Do we really want golf to be like a tiny number of exclusive polo clubs?

Ill stress this thread was about green fees rather than memberships. My contention is that the top clubs do have a wider responsibility to the game itself, I’m sure you don’t agree.

[El Gringo]

Miles

Clubs exist to serve the membership. If a club can successfully charge a pile for visitors there is an argument that fewer visitors are then needed to achieve the goals of the club. That said, one of the realities of a healthy bank account is clubs begin to look for ways to spend money...sometimes wastefully and not to the betterment of the house or course. In the past 30 years I have slowly watched courses become more homogenised in the name of health and safety, fairness and championship golf. Taken as a whole these three are the evil trinity which slowly erode character and distinction.

While I agree that some clubs chase money for dubious purposes, I certainly don't believe I have a right to play these places at cheaper rates. I do, however, feel sorry for the next generation and golf in general because so many of our fields of dreams are too posh to allow visitors or too expensive for most. It's a long term trend which will lead to fewer golfers, clubs and courses.

[babyfade]

[milesgiles]

I’ve golfed abroad and it’s overwhelmingly 4 par 5’s and 4 par 3’s. Never seen a par 69 like St David’s or Hindhead. The quirkiness in U.K. golf is what makes it, with every type of land imaginable used. But it’s not about playing them ‘cheaper’, I’m pointing out just how quickly they are getting ever more expensive. When you overhear a conversation at Royal Cinque Ports that Kingsbarns has gone up in price far too much, I think it’s obvious there’s a serious problem.

when you hear of private clubs struggling for members but charging eye watering amounts for visitors when the course is empty, you have to question the logic. Most clubs are run by bumbling committees of people who have never made their mark in the real world and love the sounds of their own voices. It’s a rubbish state of affairs.

i certainly do feel sorry for the next generation. No juniors at my club and barely any under 40. Ditto anywhere I go with the odd exception.

[duffer987]

Lolz at strawman. You've been all over the shop in this thread to have a whinge about Top 100/200 courses charging more for daily green fees than you want to pay.

A clubs role in supporting the game is in getting the children, juniors, and then young adults of existing members into golf and then into theirs or another club. And having a strong junior program overall - regardless of whether they are kids of members or not. Subsequently they have reduced subs to such and such and age and off you go. Having an introductory program for adults wanting to get into the game is good as well, and I've seen clubs that offer this type of practice/learn the game membership before transferring to full playing members. That's how a club handles its wider responsibilities to the game.

A club doesn't 'grow the game' by keeping their visitor fees at what someone considers an 'acceptable level' for the occassionnal visiting middle aged golfer, who want to stop in for a game. So no I don't agree with you, that clubs are obligated to keep their visitor fees in check, because it's a... what do you say? strawman argument... in their golf stewardship.

I've joined up with lots of members/locals over the years at various UK courses and when they ask me where else I am playing, they'll reply - oh yes I've heard that's a good course - yet they've never played it as it's 100 miles down the motorway and their happy with their home course and the 4 or 5 away days they play each year against other clubs. Those of us keen to explore loads of other courses are in the minority.

A tangent, but on topic generally in regard to prices, I know I've seen it mentioned by EG here and on GCA, but don't county cards help mitigate these visitor fees for UK golfers? Isn't that a bone a fair few clubs throw to golfers in the offseason and during afternoons in season.

 

[milesgiles]

Mine isn’t a straw man at all. Most committees couldn’t run a whelk stall. It’s true people like me are the minority, but we are paying a heavy price for clubs exploiting international tourists for every red cent. It doesn’t sit well with me on any level. Is that really what those who had the vision to set up and invest in those top clubs had in mind? I’ve seen all sorts of choppers at these places, there not because the course meant anything at all to them, just that they were happy to pay the price and shout about it at the bar.

the county card is not thought through. It has no name or egu number on it so it gets abused/handed out to chums who aren’t members anywhere. More and more clubs only allow it for the county you are in, or not at all.