Putting with flag in (MERGED)

[davep043]

Not having read the entire thread ...

 

An altered design of the flagstick is patented, which will allow for the ball to hit the stick and more likely be directed into the cup, instead of bouncing of it

Interesting, do you have a reference to that somewhere? For what its worth, I'm pretty sure the existing flagsticks will capture a few more putts than would be holed without the flagstick in.

[doublehans]

I don't like the new flag rule. I think it will slow play. Not as much in the amateur ranks but in the pro ranks, it may slow play because everyone will have a preference of if they want the flag in or not. We may be seeing flags removed and put back several times in one group. I would of rather seen them legalize laser rangefinder devices on the pro tours because that would speed up play.

 

it has more annoyance potential for amateur golfers. pros all play with caddies. so for the pros, its probably just gonna more of an annoyance for caddies than for the players or slowing play. its gonna be on the caddies to do the flag dance. for amateurs not playing with caddies, it has the potential to speed up the game.....if everyone is on the same page. but to be a wrench if not.

[Matt J]

One of my playing groups we were joking that the first guy who asks for the flag to be put back in for a putt he can see every other guy in the foursome is going to nut punch him. We figure if we make a very strong impression the first time we will discourage the behavior long term.

[Zz24hours]

Not having read the entire thread ...

 

An altered design of the flagstick is patented, which will allow for the ball to hit the stick and more likely be directed into the cup, instead of bouncing of it

Interesting, do you have a reference to that somewhere? For what its worth, I'm pretty sure the existing flagsticks will capture a few more putts than would be holed without the flagstick in.

 

Only seen a prototype/pre-sale model, cant find further information

[Z1ggy16]

I wonder if the USGA has done a (private) study where they found - as did Bryson apparently - that having the stick in may result in more holed putts, thereby lowering scores and drawing more attention/fans to the game, both to events and recreational.

 

It's just interesting either way that people complain how stick in makes putting easier yet that same guy uses a 460cc maxed out COR driver. Where's your persimmon and butter knives?

 

News flash: golf should be fun and enjoyable for you. The reason you use that behemoth of a driver is so it's more fun,enjoyable and easier. Otherwise we'd still be using the same crap that Snead and Hogan played if "making golf easy" mattered.

 

/rant

[shotmark]

It's going to slow things down. In , out , in , out. No way everyone Wants it one way.

 

A few of the new rules will I feel slow play down. Also the way the language in which they're written has been dumbed down leaves too much room for personal interpretation.

[gripandrip]

Personally, I don't think that I'm really good enough that flag in or not is going to make a difference. I'm a decent putter, but don't see an advantage or disadvantage. I play with some guys that will always take out the flag, but played as a single the other day and picked up with a group that always left it in. I saw no real appreciable difference other than it was harder to grab my ball in the hole.

 

Maybe on those incredibly fast impossible down hillers I could hit the flag to stop it...

[straightshot7]

I think this is going to backfire.

 

What if players figure out (which they certainly will if it works) that they can make more 3-10 footers by hitting it firmer, taking out the break, and using the flagstick to "catch" their putt?

 

I suppose they can change the flagstick to a less absorbent one if that happens?

 

Putting is one of the most challenging and important parts of the game. And they essentially just changed it. They changed the game. And for what?

 

There should be two sets of rules, as with other things. Amateurs and weekend golfers should be allowed to putt with the flagstick in.

 

But pros? This could alter golf significantly. It could alter scores significantly. And it will make it impossible to compare scores to previous tournaments, etc.

[Z1ggy16]

I think this is going to backfire.

 

What if players figure out (which they certainly will if it works) that they can make more 3-10 footers by hitting it firmer, taking out the break, and using the flagstick to "catch" their putt?

 

I suppose they can change the flagstick to a less absorbent one if that happens?

 

Putting is one of the most challenging and important parts of the game. And they essentially just changed it. They changed the game. And for what?

 

There should be two sets of rules, as with other things. Amateurs and weekend golfers should be allowed to putt with the flagstick in.

 

But pros? This could alter golf significantly. It could alter scores significantly. And it will make it impossible to compare scores to previous tournaments, etc.

That's basically bifurcation which has been discussed relentlessly here with regards to the possible ball changes (to shorten distances) and deemed a fairly horrible idea.

[straightshot7]

I think this is going to backfire.

 

What if players figure out (which they certainly will if it works) that they can make more 3-10 footers by hitting it firmer, taking out the break, and using the flagstick to "catch" their putt?

 

I suppose they can change the flagstick to a less absorbent one if that happens?

 

Putting is one of the most challenging and important parts of the game. And they essentially just changed it. They changed the game. And for what?

 

There should be two sets of rules, as with other things. Amateurs and weekend golfers should be allowed to putt with the flagstick in.

 

But pros? This could alter golf significantly. It could alter scores significantly. And it will make it impossible to compare scores to previous tournaments, etc.

That's basically bifurcation which has been discussed relentlessly here with regards to the possible ball changes (to shorten distances) and deemed a fairly horrible idea.

 

Well forget the two different sets of rules aspect. That was not the main point of my post.

 

I'm a lot more concerned with how this rule will affect the competitive golf at the highest level.

 

Ball and club improvements I can live with because you still have to play a shot.

 

The flagstick is an outside component that has nothing to do with the shot itself. It's a new element that can be used as a backstop on putts. Therefore you have now changed the way guys will putt, potentially. Which I don't think was necessary to do on the highest level.

 

What's next? Should we put nets along the rough so the ball can't go OB? It would speed up play.

[skyking]

Was listening to Haney's show this morning and he said a source told him the USGA was freakin' out over this leaving the flag in. Somehow, the USGA never considered if the rule change would actually be an advantage to a player. Haney also said Pelz did a video clearly showing an advantage to leaving the flagstick in vs not. Yeah...some pros including Mark O'Meara said they can't putt with the flagstick in. That's FU to me but I've only been playing 10 years or so, started later in life and it's all about scoreboard. Heck, I actually prefer playing golf by myself and have ALWAYS left the flag in. No way I was gonna go through taking it out, laying it down then putting it back in...no way.

[davep043]

 

But pros? This could alter golf significantly. It could alter scores significantly. And it will make it impossible to compare scores to previous tournaments, etc.

We can always compare to the scores of tournaments held between 1956 and 1968, when there was no penalty for a ball hitting the flagstick. I honestly don't think it will change much of anything.

Was listening to Haney's show this morning and he said a source told him the USGA was freakin' out over this leaving the flag in. Somehow, the USGA never considered if the rule change would actually be an advantage to a player. Haney also said Pelz did a video clearly showing an advantage to leaving the flagstick in vs not. Yeah...some pros including Mark O'Meara said they can't putt with the flagstick in. That's FU to me but I've only been playing 10 years or so, started later in life and it's all about scoreboard. Heck, I actually prefer playing golf by myself and have ALWAYS left the flag in. No way I was gonna go through taking it out, laying it down then putting it back in...no way.

Haney said the same thing a month or so back, when Bryson first said he'd leave it in. But Haney (in my personal opinion) is prone to exaggerating anything, making mountains out of molehills, claiming the sky is falling. He's especially prone to do that with issues involving the USGA. My guess is that he heard that individuals within the USGA were going to continue to monitor the flagstick issue, which Haney presents to us as the entire USGA "freaking out."

I'm not defending the USGA in this case, I don't think they really evaluated the effect the flagstick could have. Pelz did some work 10 years ago (maybe more) and concluded that the flagstick helps significantly on putts hit too hard, and was statistically neutral on putts with close to the right speed. I hear that Pelz will be publishing new information soon, along with 2 or 3 other people who have done their own studies.

[straightshot7]

But pros? This could alter golf significantly. It could alter scores significantly. And it will make it impossible to compare scores to previous tournaments, etc.

We can always compare to the scores of tournaments held between 1956 and 1968, when there was no penalty for a ball hitting the flagstick. I honestly don't think it will change much of anything.

Was listening to Haney's show this morning and he said a source told him the USGA was freakin' out over this leaving the flag in. Somehow, the USGA never considered if the rule change would actually be an advantage to a player. Haney also said Pelz did a video clearly showing an advantage to leaving the flagstick in vs not. Yeah...some pros including Mark O'Meara said they can't putt with the flagstick in. That's FU to me but I've only been playing 10 years or so, started later in life and it's all about scoreboard. Heck, I actually prefer playing golf by myself and have ALWAYS left the flag in. No way I was gonna go through taking it out, laying it down then putting it back in...no way.

Haney said the same thing a month or so back, when Bryson first said he'd leave it in. But Haney (in my personal opinion) is prone to exaggerating anything, making mountains out of molehills, claiming the sky is falling. He's especially prone to do that with issues involving the USGA. My guess is that he heard that individuals within the USGA were going to continue to monitor the flagstick issue, which Haney presents to us as the entire USGA "freaking out."

I'm not defending the USGA in this case, I don't think they really evaluated the effect the flagstick could have. Pelz did some work 10 years ago (maybe more) and concluded that the flagstick helps significantly on putts hit too hard, and was statistically neutral on putts with close to the right speed. I hear that Pelz will be publishing new information soon, along with 2 or 3 other people who have done their own studies.

 

When we see guys hammering 5 footers into the flagstick this year on the PGA Tour, let me know if you're still okay with it.

 

It might not be a bad thing, but it will certainly change the game.

[davep043]

 

When we see guys hammering 5 footers into the flagstick this year on the PGA Tour, let me know if you're still okay with it.

 

It might not be a bad thing, but it will certainly change the game.

We'll see. The problem with "hammering 5-footers" is that even the best players miss. If you miss a putt you're trying to hammer, you're going to have another 5-footer, and that one is missable too. In my opinion, most players will continue to try to get the speed about right, to minimize those lengthy come-backers.

[straightshot7]

When we see guys hammering 5 footers into the flagstick this year on the PGA Tour, let me know if you're still okay with it.

 

It might not be a bad thing, but it will certainly change the game.

We'll see. The problem with "hammering 5-footers" is that even the best players miss. If you miss a putt you're trying to hammer, you're going to have another 5-footer, and that one is missable too. In my opinion, most players will continue to try to get the speed about right, to minimize those lengthy come-backers.

 

Okay, but I bet we see some guys who aren't very good putters trying this. Probably more so on 3-4 footers.

 

Either way, how (some) pros putt is almost certainly going to be affected.

 

And why? To potentially speed up play a little?

 

Was it worth changing putting!?

 

I don't think it will last. I don't think the USGA understood the potential ramifications when they proposed this change. I think we will eventually see flagsticks that are not receptive or a retraction of the rule change.

[gioreeko]

I think this is going to backfire.

 

What if players figure out (which they certainly will if it works) that they can make more 3-10 footers by hitting it firmer, taking out the break, and using the flagstick to "catch" their putt?

 

I suppose they can change the flagstick to a less absorbent one if that happens?

 

Putting is one of the most challenging and important parts of the game. And they essentially just changed it. They changed the game. And for what?

 

There should be two sets of rules, as with other things. Amateurs and weekend golfers should be allowed to putt with the flagstick in.

 

But pros? This could alter golf significantly. It could alter scores significantly. And it will make it impossible to compare scores to previous tournaments, etc.

That's basically bifurcation which has been discussed relentlessly here with regards to the possible ball changes (to shorten distances) and deemed a fairly horrible idea.

 

Well forget the two different sets of rules aspect. That was not the main point of my post.

 

I'm a lot more concerned with how this rule will affect the competitive golf at the highest level.

 

Ball and club improvements I can live with because you still have to play a shot.

 

The flagstick is an outside component that has nothing to do with the shot itself. It's a new element that can be used as a backstop on putts. Therefore you have now changed the way guys will putt, potentially. Which I don't think was necessary to do on the highest level.

 

What's next? Should we put nets along the rough so the ball can't go OB? It would speed up play.

 

Two things, if you hit it too hard, it will obviously ricochet off the stick and not go in, and secondly, if you hit it that hard and miss the stick, you're left with a long come backer. I don't see anyone trying to hit it any harder than they would without the stick in, it's too risky.

[straightshot7]

I think this is going to backfire.

 

What if players figure out (which they certainly will if it works) that they can make more 3-10 footers by hitting it firmer, taking out the break, and using the flagstick to "catch" their putt?

 

I suppose they can change the flagstick to a less absorbent one if that happens?

 

Putting is one of the most challenging and important parts of the game. And they essentially just changed it. They changed the game. And for what?

 

There should be two sets of rules, as with other things. Amateurs and weekend golfers should be allowed to putt with the flagstick in.

 

But pros? This could alter golf significantly. It could alter scores significantly. And it will make it impossible to compare scores to previous tournaments, etc.

That's basically bifurcation which has been discussed relentlessly here with regards to the possible ball changes (to shorten distances) and deemed a fairly horrible idea.

 

Well forget the two different sets of rules aspect. That was not the main point of my post.

 

I'm a lot more concerned with how this rule will affect the competitive golf at the highest level.

 

Ball and club improvements I can live with because you still have to play a shot.

 

The flagstick is an outside component that has nothing to do with the shot itself. It's a new element that can be used as a backstop on putts. Therefore you have now changed the way guys will putt, potentially. Which I don't think was necessary to do on the highest level.

 

What's next? Should we put nets along the rough so the ball can't go OB? It would speed up play.

 

Two things, if you hit it to hard, it will obviously ricochet off the stick and not go in, and secondly, if you hit it that hard and miss the stick, you're left with a long come backer. I don't see anyone trying to hit it any harder than they would without the stick in, it's too risky.

 

But I'm not talking about ramming it ridiculously hard. I'm talking about hitting it 10-25% harder than you normally would, which certainly does not ricochet. It just falls right in. You can test it. I've done it.

 

This will also be a factor on downhill putts where the ball will (intentionally or unintentionally) be traveling too fast and would normally miss, but the flag will absorb the speed and sometimes the ball will go in.

 

I'm sure you've seen putts that have hit the back lip and popped straight up but stayed outside the hole? These types of putts will fall in often times if the flagstick is in.

 

There are many many scenarios where it will be beneficial to hit the flagstick. And PGA Tour pros will figure out how to use this to their advantage.

[gioreeko]

I think this is going to backfire.

 

What if players figure out (which they certainly will if it works) that they can make more 3-10 footers by hitting it firmer, taking out the break, and using the flagstick to "catch" their putt?

 

I suppose they can change the flagstick to a less absorbent one if that happens?

 

Putting is one of the most challenging and important parts of the game. And they essentially just changed it. They changed the game. And for what?

 

There should be two sets of rules, as with other things. Amateurs and weekend golfers should be allowed to putt with the flagstick in.

 

But pros? This could alter golf significantly. It could alter scores significantly. And it will make it impossible to compare scores to previous tournaments, etc.

That's basically bifurcation which has been discussed relentlessly here with regards to the possible ball changes (to shorten distances) and deemed a fairly horrible idea.

 

Well forget the two different sets of rules aspect. That was not the main point of my post.

 

I'm a lot more concerned with how this rule will affect the competitive golf at the highest level.

 

Ball and club improvements I can live with because you still have to play a shot.

 

The flagstick is an outside component that has nothing to do with the shot itself. It's a new element that can be used as a backstop on putts. Therefore you have now changed the way guys will putt, potentially. Which I don't think was necessary to do on the highest level.

 

What's next? Should we put nets along the rough so the ball can't go OB? It would speed up play.

 

Two things, if you hit it to hard, it will obviously ricochet off the stick and not go in, and secondly, if you hit it that hard and miss the stick, you're left with a long come backer. I don't see anyone trying to hit it any harder than they would without the stick in, it's too risky.

 

But I'm not talking about ramming it ridiculously hard. I'm talking about hitting it 10-25% harder than you normally would, which certainly does not ricochet. It just falls right in. You can test it. I've done it.

 

This will also be a factor on downhill putts where the ball will (intentionally or unintentionally) be traveling too fast and would normally miss, but the flag will absorb the speed and sometimes the ball will go in.

 

I'm sure you've seen putts that have hit the back lip and popped straight up but stayed outside the hole? These types of putts will fall in often times if the flagstick is in.

 

There are many many scenarios where it will be beneficial to hit the flagstick. And PGA Tour pros will figure out how to use this to their advantage.

 

So what's your solution? You can already keep it in when putting or chipping from the fringe, and it's an advantage to do so. So should that be illegal too? And why?

[scotee]

Sorry if this has already been discussed. Can the flagstick be tended and left in. Say the wind is blowing and you want it to stay more centered in the hole? Is that allowed?

[davep043]

Sorry if this has already been discussed. Can the flagstick be tended and left in. Say the wind is blowing and you want it to stay more centered in the hole? Is that allowed?

The way I read the rules, if the flagstick is attended, it must be removed.

[GMR]

But I'm not talking about ramming it ridiculously hard. I'm talking about hitting it 10-25% harder than you normally would, which certainly does not ricochet. It just falls right in. You can test it. I've done it.

 

This will also be a factor on downhill putts where the ball will (intentionally or unintentionally) be traveling too fast and would normally miss, but the flag will absorb the speed and sometimes the ball will go in.

 

I'm sure you've seen putts that have hit the back lip and popped straight up but stayed outside the hole? These types of putts will fall in often times if the flagstick is in.

 

There are many many scenarios where it will be beneficial to hit the flagstick. And PGA Tour pros will figure out how to use this to their advantage.

News flash, the best putters in the world were already "hammering" their 2-3 footers in, even before the flagstick rule changed. Their ability to take the break out of these short ones accounts for the absurdly high make % most of the PGA tour pros have from inside 3 feet. However, when they miss (which is infrequently) you'll notice there's nearly always some significant work left to do. Case in point: https://www.nbcsports.com/video/rickie-fowler-blows-two-putts-par-shell-houston-open

 

Leaving the flagstick in isn't going to change their strategy from this range in the slightest, I assure you. Nothing to worry about.

[8602081]

Tried it last weekend..

It sure does make it easier to aim..

[wfrogge1]

I think this is going to backfire.

 

What if players figure out (which they certainly will if it works) that they can make more 3-10 footers by hitting it firmer, taking out the break, and using the flagstick to "catch" their putt?

 

I suppose they can change the flagstick to a less absorbent one if that happens?

 

Putting is one of the most challenging and important parts of the game. And they essentially just changed it. They changed the game. And for what?

 

There should be two sets of rules, as with other things. Amateurs and weekend golfers should be allowed to putt with the flagstick in.

 

But pros? This could alter golf significantly. It could alter scores significantly. And it will make it impossible to compare scores to previous tournaments, etc.

 

If you hit it firmer and happen to hit the flag at an angle other than straight on there is a very good chance it will not go in the hole. The "glancing blow" will not slow down the ball sufficiently and the ball could propel outside of the hole.... even if a portion of the ball is below the equator of the lip. Even with this said I am leaving the flag in the hole as its a better visual aid

[OldTomMorris]

Will be interested to see if it has any effect at all on the pace of play on the PGA Tour. Of course too early to tell but not sure the data will show an improvement in that area.

[GeorgeHWB]

Is there any reason the PGA Tour can't create a condition of competition that basically mandates the old flagstick rule for PGA Tour events? I know they impose a "one ball rule" that is not required under the USGA rules of golf.

 

Personally, I think the rule should be the old rules apply if you have a caddie and have the option to leave the flagstick in if you do not.

[davep043]

Is there any reason the PGA Tour can't create a condition of competition that basically mandates the old flagstick rule for PGA Tour events? I know they impose a "one ball rule" that is not required under the USGA rules of golf.

 

Personally, I think the rule should be the old rules apply if you have a caddie and have the option to leave the flagstick in if you do not.

Here's an excerpt from the Rules governing the Committee:

Rule 1.3c(3) states that the Committee does not have the authority to apply penalties in a different way than stated in the Rules of Golf. Therefore, it is inappropriate for a Committee to write an unauthorized Local Rule that waives a penalty or changes a penalty. For example, a Committee cannot change the penalty for using a non-conforming club from disqualification to the general penalty or change the general penalty for failing to replace a ball which was moved to a single stroke. The Committee must not impose penalties when the Rules do not impose them, for example, penalizing a player who failed to total his or her score on the scorecard in stroke play.

The One-Ball rule is listed in the Model Local Rules, so that's been deemed acceptable. However, there is no Model Local Rule that allows the Committee to impose a penalty when a putt strikes the unattended flagstick. To do so would be to deviate from the Rules of Golf. That's not to say it won't happen at some point, but as far as I know the PGA has always said it intends to operate under the RoG.

[GeorgeHWB]

Is there any reason the PGA Tour can't create a condition of competition that basically mandates the old flagstick rule for PGA Tour events? I know they impose a "one ball rule" that is not required under the USGA rules of golf.

 

Personally, I think the rule should be the old rules apply if you have a caddie and have the option to leave the flagstick in if you do not.

Here's an excerpt from the Rules governing the Committee:

Rule 1.3c(3) states that the Committee does not have the authority to apply penalties in a different way than stated in the Rules of Golf. Therefore, it is inappropriate for a Committee to write an unauthorized Local Rule that waives a penalty or changes a penalty. For example, a Committee cannot change the penalty for using a non-conforming club from disqualification to the general penalty or change the general penalty for failing to replace a ball which was moved to a single stroke. The Committee must not impose penalties when the Rules do not impose them, for example, penalizing a player who failed to total his or her score on the scorecard in stroke play.

The One-Ball rule is listed in the Model Local Rules, so that's been deemed acceptable. However, there is no Model Local Rule that allows the Committee to impose a penalty when a putt strikes the unattended flagstick. To do so would be to deviate from the Rules of Golf. That's not to say it won't happen at some point, but as far as I know the PGA has always said it intends to operate under the RoG.

 

The USGA is such a clown show.

[davep043]

Is there any reason the PGA Tour can't create a condition of competition that basically mandates the old flagstick rule for PGA Tour events? I know they impose a "one ball rule" that is not required under the USGA rules of golf.

 

Personally, I think the rule should be the old rules apply if you have a caddie and have the option to leave the flagstick in if you do not.

Here's an excerpt from the Rules governing the Committee:

Rule 1.3c(3) states that the Committee does not have the authority to apply penalties in a different way than stated in the Rules of Golf. Therefore, it is inappropriate for a Committee to write an unauthorized Local Rule that waives a penalty or changes a penalty. For example, a Committee cannot change the penalty for using a non-conforming club from disqualification to the general penalty or change the general penalty for failing to replace a ball which was moved to a single stroke. The Committee must not impose penalties when the Rules do not impose them, for example, penalizing a player who failed to total his or her score on the scorecard in stroke play.

The One-Ball rule is listed in the Model Local Rules, so that's been deemed acceptable. However, there is no Model Local Rule that allows the Committee to impose a penalty when a putt strikes the unattended flagstick. To do so would be to deviate from the Rules of Golf. That's not to say it won't happen at some point, but as far as I know the PGA has always said it intends to operate under the RoG.

 

The USGA is such a clown show.

I wonder what this specific issue has to do with the "clown show" comment. Would it be more appropriate for the USGA/R&A to say "These are our rules, but the Committee may change any damn thing they want to suit the specific whims of their audience. Regardless of any changes by the Committee, golf played under those altered rules will still be considered as "Played under the USGA/R&A Rules of Golf""

[jmck]

Is there any reason the PGA Tour can't create a condition of competition that basically mandates the old flagstick rule for PGA Tour events? I know they impose a "one ball rule" that is not required under the USGA rules of golf.

 

Personally, I think the rule should be the old rules apply if you have a caddie and have the option to leave the flagstick in if you do not.

Here's an excerpt from the Rules governing the Committee:

Rule 1.3c(3) states that the Committee does not have the authority to apply penalties in a different way than stated in the Rules of Golf. Therefore, it is inappropriate for a Committee to write an unauthorized Local Rule that waives a penalty or changes a penalty. For example, a Committee cannot change the penalty for using a non-conforming club from disqualification to the general penalty or change the general penalty for failing to replace a ball which was moved to a single stroke. The Committee must not impose penalties when the Rules do not impose them, for example, penalizing a player who failed to total his or her score on the scorecard in stroke play.

The One-Ball rule is listed in the Model Local Rules, so that's been deemed acceptable. However, there is no Model Local Rule that allows the Committee to impose a penalty when a putt strikes the unattended flagstick. To do so would be to deviate from the Rules of Golf. That's not to say it won't happen at some point, but as far as I know the PGA has always said it intends to operate under the RoG.

 

The USGA is such a clown show.

I wonder what this specific issue has to do with the "clown show" comment. Would it be more appropriate for the USGA/R&A to say "These are our rules, but the Committee may change any damn thing they want to suit the specific whims of their audience. Regardless of any changes by the Committee, golf played under those altered rules will still be considered as "Played under the USGA/R&A Rules of Golf""

 

Not to speak for the other guy, but I think the clown show comment is about the USGA in general as it applies to these new rules, rather than anything specific about CoCs or what have you.

 

It's like no one at the USGA even bothered to TRY dropping a ball at knee height. If they had surely someone would've said "hey, that looks absolutely ridiculous, maybe we should rethink it."

 

Same with the flagstick in/out. It's apparently come as a huge surprise to the USGA that there could ever possibly be unintended consequences vis a vis the Brysons of the world.

 

To borrow a saying from the old country.....they'd screw up a two car funeral if you spotted them the hearse.

[GeorgeHWB]

I wonder what this specific issue has to do with the "clown show" comment. Would it be more appropriate for the USGA/R&A to say "These are our rules, but the Committee may change any damn thing they want to suit the specific whims of their audience. Regardless of any changes by the Committee, golf played under those altered rules will still be considered as "Played under the USGA/R&A Rules of Golf""

 

Not to speak for the other guy, but I think the clown show comment is about the USGA in general as it applies to these new rules, rather than anything specific about CoCs or what have you.

 

It's like no one at the USGA even bothered to TRY dropping a ball at knee height. If they had surely someone would've said "hey, that looks absolutely ridiculous, maybe we should rethink it."

 

Same with the flagstick in/out. It's apparently come as a huge surprise to the USGA that there could ever possibly be unintended consequences vis a vis the Brysons of the world.

 

To borrow a saying from the old country.....they'd screw up a two car funeral if you spotted them the hearse.

 

 

What he said... :)

 

I read an article where the person in charge of rules for the USGA said they did not consider whether leaving the flagstick in the hole would give a person an advantage in holing putts. That's total malfeasance. But given the USGA's history of making poorly reasoned rules changes it doesn't surprise me in the least.