How is Cantlay not getting penalised?

[chigolfer1]

My son's last tournament (kids through teens) us dads were commenting on how slow play is and that we think it might be from what the kids are seeing on tv. It was 20 minutes/hole. Slowest golf I've ever seen firsthand. Kids don't have the sense of urgency us older guys have...haha!

 

The weird thing is when a lot of good golfers were younger, wasn't it a thing to play as fast as you could? Just strange that it's totally reversed itself, especially in this day and age when everyone wants to do things faster.

[BearQ]

My son's last tournament (kids through teens) us dads were commenting on how slow play is and that we think it might be from what the kids are seeing on tv. It was 20 minutes/hole. Slowest golf I've ever seen firsthand. Kids don't have the sense of urgency us older guys have...haha!

 

The weird thing is when a lot of good golfers were younger, wasn't it a thing to play as fast as you could? Just strange that it's totally reversed itself, especially in this day and age when everyone wants to do things faster.

 

Yup. My junior squad, tour friends and high school team we all played fast and usually had to because we were twilight fiends. Also most were multi sport athletes and slow play is even more annoying if you’re used to speed

[iBanesto]

Painful...

 

http://youtu.be/qiN0_3Xru3Y

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Painful...

 

http://youtu.be/qiN0_3Xru3Y

He has no business being on a golf course. That's ridiculous. Bring on the Shot Clock and Make Golf Great Again :)

[OutBackHack]

It's pretty impressive he's playing so well after watching that garbage, I mean how much junk is he thinking about before he finally pulls the trigger.

[golfandfishing]

It's pretty impressive he's playing so well after watching that garbage, I mean how much junk is he thinking about before he finally pulls the trigger.

 

I’m guessing it’s progressively positive thoughts.

[Roadking2003]

You are right, he's the poster boy for slow play.

 

The tour is weak enforcing their own rules, that's why these shenanigans go on and on.

 

Watching Cantlay is like having a severe case of the yips.

 

What slow play rule did he violate?

[Roadking2003]

He has no business being on a golf course. That's ridiculous. Bring on the Shot Clock and Make Golf Great Again :)

 

They already have a shot clock and use it when a group is behind. What rule is he violating?

[Golfer4Life]

Painful...

 

http://youtu.be/qiN0_3Xru3Y

 

What a turd!

[Golfer4Life]

You are right, he's the poster boy for slow play.

 

The tour is weak enforcing their own rules, that's why these shenanigans go on and on.

 

Watching Cantlay is like having a severe case of the yips.

 

What slow play rule did he violate?

 

Are you serious? Ok, lol...

[BlackDiamondPar5]

He has no business being on a golf course. That's ridiculous. Bring on the Shot Clock and Make Golf Great Again :)

 

They already have a shot clock and use it when a group is behind. What rule is he violating?

The current form of timing is often ineffective and sometimes arbitrary hence some previous controversy. It also penalizes the group rather than dealing with the offender. It doesn't go into effect until the group is at least a hole behind so the damage has already started. Check out the Shot Clock Masters it solves the problem and shaved 30 mins off the average tour time.

[Roadking2003]

You are right, he's the poster boy for slow play.

 

The tour is weak enforcing their own rules, that's why these shenanigans go on and on.

 

Watching Cantlay is like having a severe case of the yips.

 

What slow play rule did he violate?

 

Are you serious? Ok, lol...

 

Yes. Are you? LOL

[Roadking2003]

He has no business being on a golf course. That's ridiculous. Bring on the Shot Clock and Make Golf Great Again :)

 

They already have a shot clock and use it when a group is behind. What rule is he violating?

The current form of timing is often ineffective and sometimes arbitrary hence some previous controversy. It also penalizes the group rather than dealing with the offender. It doesn't go into effect until the group is at least a hole behind so the damage has already started. Check out the Shot Clock Masters it solves the problem and shaved 30 mins off the average tour time.

 

Unless they changed the rules, the group is never penalized. A group get's put on the clock and then each player is timed.

 

Why is that arbitrary?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

He has no business being on a golf course. That's ridiculous. Bring on the Shot Clock and Make Golf Great Again :)

 

They already have a shot clock and use it when a group is behind. What rule is he violating?

The current form of timing is often ineffective and sometimes arbitrary hence some previous controversy. It also penalizes the group rather than dealing with the offender. It doesn't go into effect until the group is at least a hole behind so the damage has already started. Check out the Shot Clock Masters it solves the problem and shaved 30 mins off the average tour time.

 

Unless they changed the rules, the group is never penalized. A group get's put on the clock and then each player is timed.

 

Why is that arbitrary?

There’s been debate in the past about who was really responsible. Some guys maybe get a bit more leniency. There were at least two instances of it on the PGA tour this season. A clock that follows the player works. As I said check out the Shot Clock Masters.

[chigolfer1]

He has no business being on a golf course. That's ridiculous. Bring on the Shot Clock and Make Golf Great Again :)

 

They already have a shot clock and use it when a group is behind. What rule is he violating?

The current form of timing is often ineffective and sometimes arbitrary hence some previous controversy. It also penalizes the group rather than dealing with the offender. It doesn't go into effect until the group is at least a hole behind so the damage has already started. Check out the Shot Clock Masters it solves the problem and shaved 30 mins off the average tour time.

 

Unless they changed the rules, the group is never penalized. A group get's put on the clock and then each player is timed.

 

Why is that arbitrary?

 

I guess I'm confused what you're getting at. Being painful to watch isn't in itself breaking a rule (Keegan Bradley for many, for instance) but I think we're taking the logical next step that him taking forever to pull the trigger is going to result in slow play that should be penalized.

 

It is hard to fathom how you could stand over the ball at setup for literally 40 seconds and not be playing holes at an extremely slow pace. But, maybe everything he does to that point is very fast and then he just stands over the ball forever?

[Shilgy]

He has no business being on a golf course. That's ridiculous. Bring on the Shot Clock and Make Golf Great Again :)

 

They already have a shot clock and use it when a group is behind. What rule is he violating?

The current form of timing is often ineffective and sometimes arbitrary hence some previous controversy. It also penalizes the group rather than dealing with the offender. It doesn't go into effect until the group is at least a hole behind so the damage has already started. Check out the Shot Clock Masters it solves the problem and shaved 30 mins off the average tour time.

 

Unless they changed the rules, the group is never penalized. A group get's put on the clock and then each player is timed.

 

Why is that arbitrary?

 

I guess I'm confused what you're getting at. Being painful to watch isn't in itself breaking a rule (Keegan Bradley for many, for instance) but I think we're taking the logical next step that him taking forever to pull the trigger is going to result in slow play that should be penalized.

 

It is hard to fathom how you could stand over the ball at setup for literally 40 seconds and not be playing holes at an extremely slow pace. But, maybe everything he does to that point is very fast and then he just stands over the ball forever?

Do you know for certain that Cantlay and other "slow" players-those that people think their routine is too slow- do not make up that time elsewhere? There is a lot more to slow play than a players routine over the ball. And a shot clock gimmick is not what golf needs.

[chigolfer1]

No, I don't, thus my last sentence and my Keegan example. (btw, I've been saying the same thing about Keegan that you wrote above. Is he really that slow or are people just annoyed at his "routine?") But, like I said, hard to see how someone could stand over almost every shot for this long could not result in generally slow play.

[bscinstnct]

Painful...

 

http://youtu.be/qiN0_3Xru3Y

 

 

If I was there, I be like

 

 

[bladehunter]

shot clock masters was in fact a hugely bad optic in my opinion ... last thing we need... You will see some fast players use all that clock where they never would before... Bottom line is some guys just look slow... Tournament golf takes more time.... Nobody raking back 4 footers etc... if a group is behind they get put on the clock.. most times they speed up and no penalty...what else do you want >? The idea that a shot clock will make these guys turn in 1.30 and finish in 3.40 is just a farse...

[Shilgy]

No, I don't, thus my last sentence and my Keegan example. (btw, I've been saying the same thing about Keegan that you wrote above. Is he really that slow or are people just annoyed at his "routine?") But, like I said, hard to see how someone could stand over almost every shot for this long could not result in generally slow play.

By being ready to play when it is their turn. Not beginning the discussion with the caddie when it is their turn to play...cough cough YJS. By not dawdling in their walk to next shot. By lining up their putt when others are putting. That is a few ways.....

[BlackDiamondPar5]

shot clock masters was in fact a hugely bad optic in my opinion ... last thing we need... You will see some fast players use all that clock where they never would before... Bottom line is some guys just look slow... Tournament golf takes more time.... Nobody raking back 4 footers etc... if a group is behind they get put on the clock.. most times they speed up and no penalty...what else do you want >? The idea that a shot clock will make these guys turn in 1.30 and finish in 3.40 is just a farse...

 

Oh come on blade! The farce is that anyone is expecting them to finish in 3:40 as you stated--- that's not the case at all. In the Shot Clock Masters they knocked 30 mins off the average tournament round --- so instead of 4:45 it was 4:15. The PGA tour is closer to 5 hours which is ridiculous since these guys rarely have to search for lost balls.

[300_Straight]

I agree that watching Cantlay is frustrating but slow play on the Tour is a collective effort. Hard to tell watching on TV but was his group ever out of position? I wonder if Tour officials give some slack on individual times if a group is not out of position if getting them to hurry up would only serve to have them wait even longer to hit their next shots.

I'd love to see a tour player call out his competitor on the tee/fairway where he's been consistently dragging the group down and they're at risk of being put on the clock. Plenty make comment post round but few stand up to challenge during play - especially when a group is put on the clock and not a player. Sadly I think this is very unlikely.

Let him play a round with Bubba.

[smithpr81689]

One thing I'd like to know is how slow Cantlay is between shots. An important part of playing golf at a good pace is what happens inbetween shots. 15-20 second here or there standing over the ball don't add up to much. It's a 4-5 minutes getting to your ball, picking you club and shot, THEN hitting the ball.

 

In short, how is he inbetween shots?

[chigolfer1]

No, I don't, thus my last sentence and my Keegan example. (btw, I've been saying the same thing about Keegan that you wrote above. Is he really that slow or are people just annoyed at his "routine?") But, like I said, hard to see how someone could stand over almost every shot for this long could not result in generally slow play.

By being ready to play when it is their turn. Not beginning the discussion with the caddie when it is their turn to play...cough cough YJS. By not dawdling in their walk to next shot. By lining up their putt when others are putting. That is a few ways.....

 

Do you think that's really happening or just saying it's a possibility? I agree it's a possibility but haven't watched Cantlay enough to know either way.

[nsxguy]

I don't really like the other sports analogies, very much. Sometimes they work, but sometimes they don't. Pitchers have to deliver to the plate in a certain time, but still baseball games take for-EVER.

 

But annoying routines aside, is Cantlay or Bradley or anyone else shooting after 40 seconds. Has anyone kept track? I have no idea.

 

I didn't even know that was a baseball rule until now. It's stupid. It's the runner causing the throws to 1st. Not the pitcher. If every idiot didn't try to get a lead halfway to 2nd nobody would throw over.

 

Agreed. Baseball is slow as crap no matter how you cut it. I have a 10 year old who plays to a pretty high level regionally. Each season we have games where even the players are falling asleep it's so boring. Why ? Players aren't taught to swing the bat anymore. They look for perfect pitches and walks. Then try to steal bases. So thegame is 98% pitcher / catcher , pitcher /1st baseman.

 

Do you get paid by the post or something?

You have zero idea what you are talking about. None.

Please stop. It's embarrassing.

 

Click on your name in the upper right hand corner.

 

Click on "My Settings".

 

Look for "Ignore Preferences" on the left.

 

From there it should be easy. :hi:

[Johnnypenso]

Isn't there a way to quantify this? Looking at videos of Cantlay standing over a driver for 40 seconds is entertaining but it's an anecdote and entirely meaningless in the full round. So how long is his average round vs. his competitors and how far is he behind the group in front at the 18th tee on average? If he can still see them on the course he's not a slow player.

[curitiba]

FYI: The Pgatour uses a time par as well as relation of position of the group ahead.

 

The PGATOUR has a time par from which each group needs to finish equal or under after each hole. For example: Let's say the Commission decided the time par for hole number 1 was 14 minutes, ( average par 4 ), each group should finish 14 minutes or under in regards to their start time.

 

HOWEVER: let's say a player loses a ball on number 1 and has a 5 minute ball search, would the group not be allowed to be over 14 minutes after 1? The answer is yes and the Rules staff would know how much over they finished so they can see how fast they play the next hole.

 

Many circumstances come into play but rest assured If the group is under time par, they will never get clocked. If a group is over time par and out of position ( par 3 (fully open), par 4 (not 1 drive in air before group ahead leaves the green ), par 5( not all 3 drives in air before group ahead leaves the green ) ), they will get an official warning. If they don't make up time and hole in front remains open, they will get put on the clock.

 

HOWEVER: What if there is a short par 5 or par 4 and groups are waiting on the tee to hit a few holes ahead of this slow group, what would be the purpose of timing a group into a big Waiting wall?

 

Golf is a funny sport in that there are so many aspects that affect the play. ( Wind, rain, hard hole location, short par 5, drivable par 4, hard par 3 ). Before criticizing whether PGATOUR does their job or not, you should get informed first on how they work.

 

Cheers

[djonasson]

I have watched golf on tv for the last 30 years and PVR almost all recordings so i do not have to watch the commercials. But even with that i end up fast forwarding through all the garbage time these players use wandering around trying to make a decision. If the PGA tour does not do something serious about this they are going to suffer as no one will watch. Last year the Euro tour had the stop clock open and it was great. You knew the player was going to pull the trigger right away. The tour should do this at the Web.com level and after a few years on the regular tour. Way more entertaining.

[bladehunter]

I don't really like the other sports analogies, very much. Sometimes they work, but sometimes they don't. Pitchers have to deliver to the plate in a certain time, but still baseball games take for-EVER.

 

But annoying routines aside, is Cantlay or Bradley or anyone else shooting after 40 seconds. Has anyone kept track? I have no idea.

 

I didn't even know that was a baseball rule until now. It's stupid. It's the runner causing the throws to 1st. Not the pitcher. If every idiot didn't try to get a lead halfway to 2nd nobody would throw over.

 

Agreed. Baseball is slow as crap no matter how you cut it. I have a 10 year old who plays to a pretty high level regionally. Each season we have games where even the players are falling asleep it's so boring. Why ? Players aren't taught to swing the bat anymore. They look for perfect pitches and walks. Then try to steal bases. So thegame is 98% pitcher / catcher , pitcher /1st baseman.

 

Do you get paid by the post or something?

You have zero idea what you are talking about. None.

Please stop. It's embarrassing.

 

Click on your name in the upper right hand corner.

 

Click on "My Settings".

 

Look for "Ignore Preferences on the left.

 

From there it should be easy. :hi:

 

Yes please. Anyone easily melted please choose ignore.

 

Zero idea. Please. If you don’t get what I’m saying at least in part. You haven’t been involved In youth baseball in 20 years. It was a shock to me too. When I was a kid in the 80s this wasn’t the case. The game isn’t the same now.

[Shilgy]

No, I don't, thus my last sentence and my Keegan example. (btw, I've been saying the same thing about Keegan that you wrote above. Is he really that slow or are people just annoyed at his "routine?") But, like I said, hard to see how someone could stand over almost every shot for this long could not result in generally slow play.

By being ready to play when it is their turn. Not beginning the discussion with the caddie when it is their turn to play...cough cough YJS. By not dawdling in their walk to next shot. By lining up their putt when others are putting. That is a few ways.....

 

Do you think that's really happening or just saying it's a possibility? I agree it's a possibility but haven't watched Cantlay enough to know either way.

You stated it was.."hard to see how someone could stand over almost every shot for this long could not result in generally slow play". I am just showing how easy it would be to make up that time. If Cantlay and his group are keeping up it is most likely he does make up time somewhere.