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How is Cantlay not getting penalised?


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No, I don't, thus my last sentence and my Keegan example. (btw, I've been saying the same thing about Keegan that you wrote above. Is he really that slow or are people just annoyed at his "routine?") But, like I said, hard to see how someone could stand over almost every shot for this long could not result in generally slow play.

By being ready to play when it is their turn. Not beginning the discussion with the caddie when it is their turn to play...cough cough YJS. By not dawdling in their walk to next shot. By lining up their putt when others are putting. That is a few ways.....

 

Do you think that's really happening or just saying it's a possibility? I agree it's a possibility but haven't watched Cantlay enough to know either way.

You stated it was.."hard to see how someone could stand over almost every shot for this long could not result in generally slow play". I am just showing how easy it would be to make up that time. If Cantlay and his group are keeping up it is most likely he does make up time somewhere.

 

I said it's hard to see, not exactly the same as claiming it was, especially considering I then followed with the fact it's plausible he's fast elsewhere.

 

But anyway, wasn't really intending to get into a semantics battle. It sounds like several posters think he might actually be faster elsewhere? Or, are people also just saying it's POSSIBLE he's fast elsewhere. What are you contending yourself?

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This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

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Lol. I say , I say ...... what the hell is going on here ??????

 

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Well...to me it's just agitating to watch on tv - haha. Perhaps he makes the up the time elsewhere. But the coverage on the tv is tortuous. On the flip side, I can watch Champ and his caddie talk about a shot for just as long and be mesmerized. Also, sidenote...I understand that Cantlay has experienced some pretty bad personal juju the past couple years. It might be manifesting itself in odd ways like this. The dude's got game, though.

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The problem with slow players is they don't give a crap they are slow. I play lots of tournament golf. I am extremely fast - too fast for my own good. Most players are fine too. But when paired with a slow player, the fast players pay the price. We instinctively speed up even more to cover for them. And if a warning is given and I'm in a tournament where the group is penalized (vs just the slow player), which by the way is ridiculous, then I don't even read putts before I hit them. I'm at a full out run Meanwhile, the slow player drags along, taking 10 practice swings, lining up the line on the ball, constantly changing clubs, etc, etc.

 

The solution is simple at pro level. Official with every group. Stopwatch on every shot. 1 warning. Next one is 2 shots. Next one is DQ.

 

It's much harder to monitor at the amateur level with limited rules officials.

 

Case in point, the AJGA has a severe slow play penalty and it's on the whole group. My son was in a qualifier tournament in Texas and the group behind them was in position all day. Then one kid had a bad hole (quad). Then the same kid had another bad hole (quad). They got behind my sons group quite a bit. So on the next hole that entire group was on the green and the poor player was still on the tee. The kids knew they need to move to avoid a penalty. Instead of handling it with the one kid, they slapped the whole group with 2 shots. One of the kids on the green had driven all the way from Nebraska for the tournament and missed qualifying by 1, through no fault of his own. He petitioned them to recall the penalty and they wouldn't. He missed for no reason other than he was paired with a bad player.

 

And there is where it gets tough. Never should a group be penalized for the actions of one player, especially when officials aren't watching every single shot to understand the situation. But how can they figure out the problem.

 

The answer at the am level to me is the group having a say in where the problem is, and the official putting that person on the clock the rest of the way.

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So what you want is for everyone to play at your pace.

 

That is a terrible Committee practice to penalize the whole group. But that's what some people here in this thread want. Do you agree with that practice? That sounds like terrible judgement and application and I dare say, that would drive more people away from golf than any stroke and distance or divot hole.

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So what you want is for everyone to play at your pace.

 

That is a terrible Committee practice to penalize the whole group. But that's what some people here in this thread want. Do you agree with that practice? That sounds like terrible judgement and application and I dare say, that would drive more people away from golf than any stroke and distance or divot hole.

 

Vin Diesel Dog!

 

I say that if it looks bad, you get thrown in golf jail.

 

What does "bad" look like?

 

Well, its like SCOTUS justice Potter Stewart said about a certain topic,

 

"I know it when I see it"

 

; )

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This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

 

You're right. Your post not only had nothing to do with slow play it also had absolutely no point and was totally worthless. And you really should learn to use paragraphs.

 

Other than that, it was a good post.

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This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

 

Without risk of hyberbole

 

This is the best post ever made ; )

 

 

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No, I don't, thus my last sentence and my Keegan example. (btw, I've been saying the same thing about Keegan that you wrote above. Is he really that slow or are people just annoyed at his "routine?") But, like I said, hard to see how someone could stand over almost every shot for this long could not result in generally slow play.

By being ready to play when it is their turn. Not beginning the discussion with the caddie when it is their turn to play...cough cough YJS. By not dawdling in their walk to next shot. By lining up their putt when others are putting. That is a few ways.....

 

Do you think that's really happening or just saying it's a possibility? I agree it's a possibility but haven't watched Cantlay enough to know either way.

You stated it was.."hard to see how someone could stand over almost every shot for this long could not result in generally slow play". I am just showing how easy it would be to make up that time. If Cantlay and his group are keeping up it is most likely he does make up time somewhere.

 

I said it's hard to see, not exactly the same as claiming it was, especially considering I then followed with the fact it's plausible he's fast elsewhere.

 

But anyway, wasn't really intending to get into a semantics battle. It sounds like several posters think he might actually be faster elsewhere? Or, are people also just saying it's POSSIBLE he's fast elsewhere. What are you contending yourself?

Without going out and watching an event with him in person and following his group? That's the only way to tell. If his group is not often on the clock then he is making it up somewhere.

It's not like he has to make a lot of time. It does seem like it watching his routine but it's probably 30 seconds longer than others at the most. Not hard to make up 30 seconds.

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This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

 

If you found this so weird & disturbing, maybe you could play somewhere on your own dime with with your high class new job rather than ridicule the people who were nice enough to rent you their house & get you access a nice private club. Sheesh...were they decent people or super creepy? I can't keep up.

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This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

 

Without risk of hyberbole

 

This is the best post ever made ; )

 

Agreed. Completely entertaining. Though I'd imagine the Judge Smails types on this board will take offense!

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This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

 

Without risk of hyberbole

 

This is the best post ever made ; )

 

Agreed. Completely entertaining. Though I'd imagine the Judge Smails types on this board will take offense!

 

I cant imagine anyone being offended by this. Its hysterical.

 

Sounds like that movie

 

Get Out ; )

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This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

 

Without risk of hyberbole

 

This is the best post ever made ; )

Definitely top notch. Being from where I come from I have never seen that, it would be a nice archeological trip to come to such a club. Even at the Premium clubs in Stockholm its like "hi". But anyways, I sometimes do that kind of analysis of people behavin'. For the guys that NEVER yell fore for instance, I wonder if they grew up on skid row where noone whined about a tiny golf ball in the face, or if they are from a place like described above - Patrons should really kneel down and bow when the walk past, lowly people with a minus handicap, and should be honored about getting hit by the golf ball of a professional golfer. Probably neither, being sunday school boys in every other way. But its a nice place to foster your wrath.

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This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

 

Let's just say, I'll take Patrick Cantlay's slow (really slow) play over the above post any day.

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He is purgatory. Horsfield tweeted he knows he has an issue and is doing something about it. Cantlay is getting beyond belief. The 2019 rules revisions are about speeding up play but obviously touring pros will be exempt...

 

Some new rules are in the name of slow play, but will have little effect at all, at the expense of the integrity of the rules overall.

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So what you want is for everyone to play at your pace.

 

That is a terrible Committee practice to penalize the whole group. But that's what some people here in this thread want. Do you agree with that practice? That sounds like terrible judgement and application and I dare say, that would drive more people away from golf than any stroke and distance or divot hole.

 

As a fast player, yes I WANT everyone to play at my pace.

 

The difference is a slow player FORCES everyone to play at their pace.

 

Play at a reasonable pace and I won't get aggravated at you to play up to my pace. But if you play at a normal pace a slow player FROCES you to play at their pace. Along with everyone behind them likely for the rest of the day.

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He has no business being on a golf course. That's ridiculous. Bring on the Shot Clock and Make Golf Great Again :)

 

They already have a shot clock and use it when a group is behind. What rule is he violating?

The current form of timing is often ineffective and sometimes arbitrary hence some previous controversy. It also penalizes the group rather than dealing with the offender. It doesn't go into effect until the group is at least a hole behind so the damage has already started. Check out the Shot Clock Masters it solves the problem and shaved 30 mins off the average tour time.

 

Unless they changed the rules, the group is never penalized. A group get's put on the clock and then each player is timed.

 

Why is that arbitrary?

 

I guess I'm confused what you're getting at. Being painful to watch isn't in itself breaking a rule (Keegan Bradley for many, for instance) but I think we're taking the logical next step that him taking forever to pull the trigger is going to result in slow play that should be penalized.

 

It is hard to fathom how you could stand over the ball at setup for literally 40 seconds and not be playing holes at an extremely slow pace. But, maybe everything he does to that point is very fast and then he just stands over the ball forever?

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. How long you stand over the ball is irrelevant.

 

There are two issues here;

 

1. The rules: Is Cantlay violating a rule? Nobody has presented evidence that he is violating a rule or getting special treatment.

 

2. The product: The PGA Tour sells an entertainment product. That's their business. So until they start losing revenue due to slow play, why would they change anything? I don't like watching Cantlay take so much time to hit, but that has not stopped me from watching golf on TV. I also don't like watching the pros make 2 foot putts but that hasn't changed my viewing habit. From a TV viewer standpoint, slow play is not an issue at all. With good TV camera management the viewers don't have to experience the slow play much at all.

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No, I don't, thus my last sentence and my Keegan example. (btw, I've been saying the same thing about Keegan that you wrote above. Is he really that slow or are people just annoyed at his "routine?") But, like I said, hard to see how someone could stand over almost every shot for this long could not result in generally slow play.

By being ready to play when it is their turn. Not beginning the discussion with the caddie when it is their turn to play...cough cough YJS. By not dawdling in their walk to next shot. By lining up their putt when others are putting. That is a few ways.....

 

Exactly. How long did he stand over the ball? Maybe 30 -40 seconds? Keeping pace allows them about 15 minutes per hole, so spending an extra 20 seconds over each shot is not a big deal.

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This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

 

Without risk of hyberbole

 

This is the best post ever made ; )

 

Made me think of one of my favorite songs (bands) from my yute.

 

 

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This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

 

Dude, if you can't handle how other people choose to live their lives, you have problems. You should travel a bit more and experience variety.

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Come on. We can’t defend that scene can we?

 

Born, raised and still live in the Deep South. That isn’t a cultural enlightening. It’s idiots who build a cave for them and other idiots to play in , a fantasy land they control. On surface that’s fine. The problem is they are allowed to venture out of the cave .

 

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There are two issues here;

 

1. The rules: Is Cantlay violating a rule? Nobody has presented evidence that he is violating a rule or getting special treatment.

 

 

There is a problem with the rule. It's so vague that there are differing opinions on what consists of "breaking the rule."

 

Is taking more than 40 seconds from when you get to your ball to when you hit it breaking the rule, is it 60 seconds? Can you only break the rule if you are more than a hole behind?

 

 

Here is the only thing I could find on the write up of the "slow play penalty" for the PGA tour. I put it in comic sans because that seems super appropriate. Finding evidence of someone breaking a rule that is this vague and has this much level of time required to validate is going to be nearly impossible, given that TV coverage will never show an entire group that is out of position for the entire hole. The best we will be able to do as spectators is provide subjective evidence. We know PGA tour rounds are at a snails pace, we know Cantlay's routine is slower than Christopher Reeve with 2 flat tires in wet sand. But can we "prove" he's broken this rule. No, but sometimes circumstantial evidence is enough to prove reasonable doubt.

 

 

PGA Tour slow play rules and penalties are based on what the tour calls "bad times." Let's say Group X has fallen off the pace and is out of position (meaning, too much space - usually a full hole - has opened between this group and the group ahead of it).

 

 

 

 

A rules official or Tour official will notify all players in the group that the group is being put "on the clock." Once a group is on the clock, PGA Tour officials begin timing each player. Once that timing of a group begins, each player has 40 seconds to play each stroke, except in the following cases when he has 60 seconds:

 

 

A player who can't meet those requirements is informed that he has a "bad time." A bad time can, in theory, lead to penalty strokes or even disqualification from a PGA Tour event. The slow play penalty process goes like this:

  • The player receives a warning for his first "bad time" of the round.
  • If he records a second bad time in the same round, he gets a 1-stroke penalty and $5,000 fine.
  • If he records a third bad time in the same round, he gets a 2-stroke penalty and a $10,000 fine.
  • If he records a fourth bad time in the same round, he is disqualified.

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This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

 

Dude, if you can't handle how other people choose to live their lives, you have problems. You should travel a bit more and experience variety.

 

Lol, is that what you gleaned from his post?

 

Also, what are the initiation fees at Virginia CC and are you even offering memberships at this time?

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There are two issues here;

 

1. The rules: Is Cantlay violating a rule? Nobody has presented evidence that he is violating a rule or getting special treatment.

 

 

There is a problem with the rule. It's so vague that there are differing opinions on what consists of "breaking the rule."

 

Is taking more than 40 seconds from when you get to your ball to when you hit it breaking the rule, is it 60 seconds? Can you only break the rule if you are more than a hole behind?

 

 

Here is the only thing I could find on the write up of the "slow play penalty" for the PGA tour. I put it in comic sans because that seems super appropriate. Finding evidence of someone breaking a rule that is this vague and has this much level of time required to validate is going to be nearly impossible, given that TV coverage will never show an entire group that is out of position for the entire hole. The best we will be able to do as spectators is provide subjective evidence. We know PGA tour rounds are at a snails pace, we know Cantlay's routine is slower than Christopher Reeve with 2 flat tires in wet sand. But can we "prove" he's broken this rule. No, but sometimes circumstantial evidence is enough to prove reasonable doubt.

 

 

PGA Tour slow play rules and penalties are based on what the tour calls "bad times." Let's say Group X has fallen off the pace and is out of position (meaning, too much space - usually a full hole - has opened between this group and the group ahead of it).

 

 

 

 

A rules official or Tour official will notify all players in the group that the group is being put "on the clock." Once a group is on the clock, PGA Tour officials begin timing each player. Once that timing of a group begins, each player has 40 seconds to play each stroke, except in the following cases when he has 60 seconds:

A player who can't meet those requirements is informed that he has a "bad time." A bad time can, in theory, lead to penalty strokes or even disqualification from a PGA Tour event. The slow play penalty process goes like this:

  • The player receives a warning for his first "bad time" of the round.
  • If he records a second bad time in the same round, he gets a 1-stroke penalty and $5,000 fine.
  • If he records a third bad time in the same round, he gets a 2-stroke penalty and a $10,000 fine.
  • If he records a fourth bad time in the same round, he is disqualified.

 

And whose opinions differ? The rule is clear. If a group is put on the clock, each player is timed. The amount of time is spelled out clearly and varies according to the situation as it should.

 

I don't see it as vague nor confusing. It's very clear to me.

 

This post has nothing to do with slow play but just because you guys are talking about this Cantlay fellow I thought I'd share an experience with ya. It's not a feel good story, quite the opposite actually. So I moved to long beach CA for a high class new job years ago (I've since gotten the hell out of cali) and found a great house to rent on pacific ave in bixby knolls. Cool neighborhood if a bit "old money" as they say. You're basically living in mahogany mansions a mile from compton where they, well, let's just say they don't. California is weird like that I learned. Anyway, the people we rented from were some old couple, both divorced I think like 3 or 4 times each, and they're members of this country club called Virginia. It was literally on my road, fancy shmancy. I was able to work a deal where they'd let me play a couple times at their club for being a good renter. So the day comes where I cash that check and tell them my dad from CT is coming into town and I'd love to take him to play on your fancy course. They oblige, decent people. No they were super creepy to be honest but alas that's neither here nor there. These decent people pick us up in their giant mercedes that was like I swear 20 feet long, I think it needed a commercial license, and drove us up to the clubhouse. They asked if we knew this guy named Paul Goydos or Patrick Cantlay. I knew Goydos - he was that turtle dude that played on tour and had a couple streaks, well I guess this was his "club". Cool I think. I never heard of Cantlay but they told me he was some young phenom that was also a member and learned to play here. Whatever, shut up, let's just play golf I don't need a history lesson of Virginia Country Club. Anyway, here's the weirdest thing - and this is coming from a normal guy who played public courses my whole life - we pull up to the front and a valet comes and parks the car. He's a black dude dressed like it's 1850 on a georgia plantation. We go inside and I look around, and not trying to be judgy, but I swear to god it's like this big dining area and every single person working there is black and every single patron is some 80 year old white dude with a cigar in his mouth and a really lame blazer with gold buttons. The hostess is of course also black and I s*** you not she does the southern thing where she's like "suh (you know, "sir" but with the super racially southern accent thing) "suh, can I take yo hat suh?" "Pleasha to have ya suh" "Best o luck on yo golf game suh". I couldn't believe it, I felt like I just went into a time machine. Honestly the whole thing made me sick and really weirded out, I was like, is this what country clubs are all about? Is this like a reenactment thing? My dad was like what...the...f***.....Anyway, bottom line is Cantlay comes from these people, so I dunno, take that as you will. Just sharing a day in my life.

 

Dude, if you can't handle how other people choose to live their lives, you have problems. You should travel a bit more and experience variety.

 

Lol, is that what you gleaned from his post?

 

Also, what are the initiation fees at Virginia CC and are you even offering memberships at this time?

 

You tell me. I've never been there. What did you pay?

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