Bandon - 4 Top 100?

[mallrat]

Personally, I like Old MacDonald and Chambers Bay better than Bandon Dunes, Pacific Dunes, and Bandon Trails. I will admit that I have never caught Bandon Dunes or Bandon Trails when the weather wasn't vile. I think there's a certain nod that goes to Bandon because it's a purist's vision and one the industry wants to encourage. Keiser is the acolyte of traditional golf. The experience is not like anything else anywhere in the USA.

 

Those lists are kind of a joke. I think the more courses you play and the more courses on the list you play the easier it is to see that it is marketing and very little else.

 

Did not know that the final decision had been made to use Coore for the Sheep's Ranch property. I think it's the best piece of land of the four courses... I really hope they don't move a lot of dirt, the talk of the Tonka trucks scares me. Gil Hanse must be pissed.

 

Right now the Tonka trucks are routing irrigation. So moving a ton of dirt but putting it back in place

[raynorfan1]

Any time anyone doubts the quality of the Bandon courses, particularly some one who hasn't set foot on the premises, I cite Matt Ginella in the April 2010 Golf Digest issue, when he quoted David Fay, former executive director of the USGA:

 

"If someone gave me tee times at Pebble Beach, Cypress, Spyglass and one of the two

courses at Monterey Peninsula Country Club versus the same deal at Bandon -- four

courses in two days -- it's no contest: I'd take Bandon hands down, and I think I've seen

just about everything there is to compare it to. I love everything about the place."

 

David Fay has a longstanding and well known bias against "exclusive" courses (and few are more exclusive than Cypress and MPCC).

 

He'd probably say the same about his darling Bethpage vs. Shinnecock/Friar's Head/Sebonack/NGLA.

[mci711]

Any time anyone doubts the quality of the Bandon courses, particularly some one who hasn't set foot on the premises, I cite Matt Ginella in the April 2010 Golf Digest issue, when he quoted David Fay, former executive director of the USGA:

 

"If someone gave me tee times at Pebble Beach, Cypress, Spyglass and one of the two

courses at Monterey Peninsula Country Club versus the same deal at Bandon -- four

courses in two days -- it's no contest: I'd take Bandon hands down, and I think I've seen

just about everything there is to compare it to. I love everything about the place."

 

David Fay has a longstanding and well known bias against "exclusive" courses (and few are more exclusive than Cypress and MPCC).

 

He'd probably say the same about his darling Bethpage vs. Shinnecock/Friar's Head/Sebonack/NGLA.

 

Spyglass is the worst out of those 6 public courses. Cypress probably the best (haven't played there) overall, but that is the #1 course on my bucket list if I could play anywhere. I would say Pac Dune/Bandon > Pebble. So it is pretty close. Now obviously, I would take the private option over Bandon because I'll never have that opportunity. But golf course vs golf course Bandon Dunes resort might just be better, if not pretty damn close.

[Schley]

Personally, I like Old MacDonald and Chambers Bay better than Bandon Dunes, Pacific Dunes, and Bandon Trails. I will admit that I have never caught Bandon Dunes or Bandon Trails when the weather wasn't vile. I think there's a certain nod that goes to Bandon because it's a purist's vision and one the industry wants to encourage. Keiser is the acolyte of traditional golf. The experience is not like anything else anywhere in the USA.

 

Those lists are kind of a joke. I think the more courses you play and the more courses on the list you play the easier it is to see that it is marketing and very little else.

 

Did not know that the final decision had been made to use Coore for the Sheep's Ranch property. I think it's the best piece of land of the four courses... I really hope they don't move a lot of dirt, the talk of the Tonka trucks scares me. Gil Hanse must be pissed.

 

C&C combined with Keiser won't allow too much to be moved I'm sure. Gil Hanse has had his share of jobs and recently been very fortunate with the amount of work he has received. I personally would have liked him to get the job so we can have all the best modern minimalist architects with a course there.

I've mentioned in some other Bandon threads, that it would have been great to go to a regional designer instead of one of the usuals.

It's unfortunate John Harbottle passed away a few years ago, he would have been an excellent choice. I'd have liked to see Bunker Hill Design get it as the named architects, as opposed to possibly just being out there anyway on the shaping crew.

But if a named firm was being chosen C&C makes me happy :) Although Phillips would have been a neat choice, being able to apply his links experience in North America for once.

 

In the end though, pretty much no one cares - myself included - as long as it's an enjoyable course.

 

I also like Mike DeVries.

[duffer987]

Any time anyone doubts the quality of the Bandon courses, particularly some one who hasn't set foot on the premises, I cite Matt Ginella in the April 2010 Golf Digest issue, when he quoted David Fay, former executive director of the USGA:

 

"If someone gave me tee times at Pebble Beach, Cypress, Spyglass and one of the two

courses at Monterey Peninsula Country Club versus the same deal at Bandon -- four

courses in two days -- it's no contest: I'd take Bandon hands down, and I think I've seen

just about everything there is to compare it to. I love everything about the place."

 

David Fay has a longstanding and well known bias against "exclusive" courses (and few are more exclusive than Cypress and MPCC).

 

He'd probably say the same about his darling Bethpage vs. Shinnecock/Friar's Head/Sebonack/NGLA.

 

Spyglass is the worst out of those 6 public courses. Cypress probably the best (haven't played there) overall, but that is the #1 course on my bucket list if I could play anywhere. I would say Pac Dune/Bandon > Pebble. So it is pretty close. Now obviously, I would take the private option over Bandon because I'll never have that opportunity. But golf course vs golf course Bandon Dunes resort might just be better, if not pretty damn close.

Spy is definitely a precipitous drop off. Cypress | Pebble | MPCC x 2 or adding in Poppy would be 'better' than Spy IMHO.

I'm having flashbacks to the Wisconsin is best in the world thread.

[mci711]

Any time anyone doubts the quality of the Bandon courses, particularly some one who hasn't set foot on the premises, I cite Matt Ginella in the April 2010 Golf Digest issue, when he quoted David Fay, former executive director of the USGA:

 

"If someone gave me tee times at Pebble Beach, Cypress, Spyglass and one of the two

courses at Monterey Peninsula Country Club versus the same deal at Bandon -- four

courses in two days -- it's no contest: I'd take Bandon hands down, and I think I've seen

just about everything there is to compare it to. I love everything about the place."

 

David Fay has a longstanding and well known bias against "exclusive" courses (and few are more exclusive than Cypress and MPCC).

 

He'd probably say the same about his darling Bethpage vs. Shinnecock/Friar's Head/Sebonack/NGLA.

 

Spyglass is the worst out of those 6 public courses. Cypress probably the best (haven't played there) overall, but that is the #1 course on my bucket list if I could play anywhere. I would say Pac Dune/Bandon > Pebble. So it is pretty close. Now obviously, I would take the private option over Bandon because I'll never have that opportunity. But golf course vs golf course Bandon Dunes resort might just be better, if not pretty damn close.

Spy is definitely a precipitous drop off. Cypress | Pebble | MPCC x 2 or adding in Poppy would be 'better' than Spy IMHO.

I'm having flashbacks to the Wisconsin is best in the world thread.

 

Haha I had that same thought.

[Schley]

As much as I love Bandon, anything with Cypress Point I have to go with, sorry Dr. Fay.

[Edaw68]

Personally, I like Old MacDonald and Chambers Bay better than Bandon Dunes, Pacific Dunes, and Bandon Trails. I will admit that I have never caught Bandon Dunes or Bandon Trails when the weather wasn't vile. I think there's a certain nod that goes to Bandon because it's a purist's vision and one the industry wants to encourage. Keiser is the acolyte of traditional golf. The experience is not like anything else anywhere in the USA.

 

Those lists are kind of a joke. I think the more courses you play and the more courses on the list you play the easier it is to see that it is marketing and very little else.

 

Did not know that the final decision had been made to use Coore for the Sheep's Ranch property. I think it's the best piece of land of the four courses... I really hope they don't move a lot of dirt, the talk of the Tonka trucks scares me. Gil Hanse must be pissed.

 

C&C combined with Keiser won't allow too much to be moved I'm sure. Gil Hanse has had his share of jobs and recently been very fortunate with the amount of work he has received. I personally would have liked him to get the job so we can have all the best modern minimalist architects with a course there.

I've mentioned in some other Bandon threads, that it would have been great to go to a regional designer instead of one of the usuals.

It's unfortunate John Harbottle passed away a few years ago, he would have been an excellent choice. I'd have liked to see Bunker Hill Design get it as the named architects, as opposed to possibly just being out there anyway on the shaping crew.

But if a named firm was being chosen C&C makes me happy :) Although Phillips would have been a neat choice, being able to apply his links experience in North America for once.

 

In the end though, pretty much no one cares - myself included - as long as it's an enjoyable course.

 

Harbottle on Bandon sand would have been great.

[mallrat]

What would have been real interesting would have been to see the Sweetens Cove designers take. But I understand that many view it as the best piece of land on property and you kind of need a name with it.

[spud3]

Did not know that the final decision had been made to use Coore for the Sheep's Ranch property. I think it's the best piece of land of the four courses... I really hope they don't move a lot of dirt, the talk of the Tonka trucks scares me. Gil Hanse must be pissed.

 

C&C combined with Keiser won't allow too much to be moved I'm sure. Gil Hanse has had his share of jobs and recently been very fortunate with the amount of work he has received. I personally would have liked him to get the job so we can have all the best modern minimalist architects with a course there.

I've mentioned in some other Bandon threads, that it would have been great to go to a regional designer instead of one of the usuals.

It's unfortunate John Harbottle passed away a few years ago, he would have been an excellent choice. I'd have liked to see Bunker Hill Design get it as the named architects, as opposed to possibly just being out there anyway on the shaping crew.

But if a big name firm was being chosen C&C makes me happy :) Although Phillips would have been a neat choice, being able to apply his links experience in North America for once.

 

In the end though, pretty much no one cares - myself included - as long as it's an enjoyable course.

 

Would loved to see how Dan Hixson or John Fought would have gone about that property. Though any architect would be salivating, not only over the property, but at the chance to work with Keiser. They'll need to move a little dirt, as there are vast tracts of the Sheep Ranch that are essentially flat:

 

 

I'm pretty confident that C&C will know exactly what to do with it, though...

[duffer987]

What would have been real interesting would have been to see the Sweetens Cove designers take. But I understand that many view it as the best piece of land on property and you kind of need a name with it.

Forget name, how about experience.

They've reworked a single 9 hole course. So by my count that means anyone in this thread is only 9 redesigned holes behind them - heck someone here may even be closer than that.

[dpark]

So glad my annual group finally got a chance to play the Sheep Ranch last year: http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1616032-bally-bandon-sheep-ranch/

 

I guess we won't have the chance to play it again in its current state. It was so much fun, and the green out on the point is phenomenal. I hope to God that C&C don't F it up.

[mallrat]

What would have been real interesting would have been to see the Sweetens Cove designers take. But I understand that many view it as the best piece of land on property and you kind of need a name with it.

Forget name, how about experience.

They've reworked a single 9 hole course. So by my count that means anyone in this thread is only 9 redesigned holes behind them - heck someone here may even be closer than that.

 

I thought that but wasn’t sure. No way with that little experience.

 

I completely agree on Fought, I generally really enjoy his courses.

[Matt J]

I'm sure C&C will do a great job. It will be nice when there's another option over there, it's getting pretty tough to get a tee time.

[mci711]

What would have been real interesting would have been to see the Sweetens Cove designers take. But I understand that many view it as the best piece of land on property and you kind of need a name with it.

Forget name, how about experience.

They've reworked a single 9 hole course. So by my count that means anyone in this thread is only 9 redesigned holes behind them - heck someone here may even be closer than that.

 

But...but... Zac Blair said it is the best course in the world! And The Fried Egg would rather play there than Augusta! :swoon: Exaggerating, but it is a really cool place that is completely overblown because it is edgy and the new "cool"

[ebrasmus21]

Hey OP - I think you should go.

 

[ebrasmus21]

 

Love that course.

[duffer987]

What would have been real interesting would have been to see the Sweetens Cove designers take. But I understand that many view it as the best piece of land on property and you kind of need a name with it.

Forget name, how about experience.

They've reworked a single 9 hole course. So by my count that means anyone in this thread is only 9 redesigned holes behind them - heck someone here may even be closer than that.

 

But...but... Zac Blair said it is the best course in the world! And The Fried Egg would rather play there than Augusta! :swoon: Exaggerating, but it is a really cool place that is completely overblown because it is edgy and the new "cool"

Ya I didn't mean to be d1ckish or negative in my reply - just that as you point out, I may be suffering from coverage fatigue :)

[mci711]

What would have been real interesting would have been to see the Sweetens Cove designers take. But I understand that many view it as the best piece of land on property and you kind of need a name with it.

Forget name, how about experience.

They've reworked a single 9 hole course. So by my count that means anyone in this thread is only 9 redesigned holes behind them - heck someone here may even be closer than that.

 

But...but... Zac Blair said it is the best course in the world! And The Fried Egg would rather play there than Augusta! :swoon: Exaggerating, but it is a really cool place that is completely overblown because it is edgy and the new "cool"

Ya I didn't mean to be d1ckish or negative in my reply - just that as you point out, I may be suffering from coverage fatigue :)

 

No I completely I agree. People will mention King and Collins like they are Coore and Crenshaw. But as you mentioned they have had 1 project. A 9 hole course that very little people have played and a fictional course that may never see the light of day (Buck club). Now that Blair mentioned he wants to do a public 9 hole track first, how far does that push the buck club out? Not to get way off track of the OP, though I already am, Blair is a genius because he sold a ton of merch with the logo of a fake club to a bunch of fools who would probably never be members if it does happen... Anyway, way off topic rant over. Sorry.

[duffer987]

What would have been real interesting would have been to see the Sweetens Cove designers take. But I understand that many view it as the best piece of land on property and you kind of need a name with it.

Forget name, how about experience.

They've reworked a single 9 hole course. So by my count that means anyone in this thread is only 9 redesigned holes behind them - heck someone here may even be closer than that.

 

But...but... Zac Blair said it is the best course in the world! And The Fried Egg would rather play there than Augusta! :swoon: Exaggerating, but it is a really cool place that is completely overblown because it is edgy and the new "cool"

Ya I didn't mean to be d1ckish or negative in my reply - just that as you point out, I may be suffering from coverage fatigue :)

 

No I completely I agree. People will mention King and Collins like they are Coore and Crenshaw. But as you mentioned they have had 1 project. A 9 hole course that very little people have played and a fictional course that may never see the light of day (Buck club). Now that Blair mentioned he wants to do a public 9 hole track first, how far does that push the buck club out? Not to get way off track of the OP, though I already am, Blair is a genius because he sold a ton of merch with the logo of a fake club to a bunch of fools who would probably never be members if it does happen... Anyway, way off topic rant over. Sorry.

Ach I think the OP was 1/2 trolling - think Bandon resort is kind of established at this point lol and in last summer's US Open thread he was calling Shinnecock overated and only up so high due to politics. I could see if he had a beef with Erin Hills coming out of nowhere, but Shinny and Bandon? OK.

Oh I am one of the fools that bought a cap - I wanted a white cap to sweat through in the summers here so I picked one up for kicks ;) But ya cynical me does wonder too, especially with this latest pivot.

I'm running out of time to get to Sweetens while I am closeish, I could just never be arsed before, but maybe I'll go next weekend and I will be amazed. I don't doubt it's fun, but not Bandon fun... speaking of which it's only 10 2/3rds months till trip 9!

[spud3]

I'm sure C&C will do a great job. It will be nice when there's another option over there, it's getting pretty tough to get a tee time.

 

I chatted with more than a few manager-types during my last visit, and they all acknowledge that another course means they'll need more lodging and dining options.

[Schley]

So glad my annual group finally got a chance to play the Sheep Ranch last year: http://www.golfwrx.c...on-sheep-ranch/

 

I guess we won't have the chance to play it again in its current state. It was so much fun, and the green out on the point is phenomenal. I hope to God that C&C don't F it up.

 

Where have C&C F'd it up to date? I can't really think of one.

[Schley]

BTW with all due respect to Zac Blair, how many courses has he designed? So a very knowledgeable GCA student of the game for sure, but I think C&C have proven over time they know how to produce great courses in a variety of locations. They have produced the best courses IMO of present architects IMO, with Doak right behind them.

[2bGood]

How is it that Bandon manages to get 4 courses into the GD Top 100?

Are they actually that nice or is there some kind of influence at play here?

Have you ever played them? I assume no. They are truly unbelievable courses. I actually think Bandon Dunes suffers from being on site with the other 3. It is a remarkably beautiful course. The views from Pac dunes are difficult to replicate.

 

Yes, I've never been. Just judging by the pictures I've seen and they all look the same. So I found it odd that 4 courses in the same place made it in.

Do the courses all look the same when you are there or do they have a unique feel to them?

 

Old Mac and Bandon Trails are very different in every way other then they are geographically close. One is as Links as it gets, the other a true Parkland course.

 

Pacific Dune and Bandon Dunes look similar but offer very different playing experiences.

 

I have been lucky enough to play many of the worlds top 50 courses and personally I believe the Bandon Courses fully and completely belong in the the top 20 public courses in the US.

 

Thing is, once you get into even the top 50 there is really is not much separating the courses - case in point is how little us Bandon lovers agree about which of the 4 is the best course when typically Trails is rank 15-20 spots lower than Pacific Dunes.

[duffer987]

^That's it. We all know the ratings are silly to begin with, but there really isn't umpteen places between any of them - regardless of what is offered up as the criteria.

You could get 25 Bandonistas to list their order and it'd be all over the shop, with the caveat that folks would agree collectively they are all top drawer and there is a lot of hair splitting involved.

[spud3]

When someone asks which is my favorite, my standard response is "whichever one I'm playing, and the other three are tied for second."

[Matt J]

I'm sure C&C will do a great job. It will be nice when there's another option over there, it's getting pretty tough to get a tee time.

 

I chatted with more than a few manager-types during my last visit, and they all acknowledge that another course means they'll need more lodging and dining options.

 

Keiser and the development team have been fighting the Oregon Coast Alliance again about the proposed tear down and rebuild of the Bandon Beach Hotel. My assumption has been that perhaps part of the plan was to route certain visitors, most likely in-state or in-region with their own transportation, to the Beach Hotel.

 

In essence, part of the vision for some time has been that some tee times should include an allotment for employees including caddies, local high school players, and local residents. Ultimately the proposed project down at the Bandon State Natural Area was supposed to fill those needs.

 

There were a couple of obstacles in using the far north piece of land where Doak built the Ballybandon Sheep's Ranch greens. Rumor had it that when the acquisition was made for that land, some of which was used for Old Macdonald, that Phil Friedmann, Mr. Keiser's partner in Recycled Paper Greetings, was part of the ownership. So, first, the resort had to acquire his share of the property. Behind the scenes the Hanse course (27 holes) at the State Natural Area and the Sheep's Ranch were always spoken about as an either/or situation. I don't know if that means that the new Sheep's Ranch course is going to be slated to simply relieve some pressure for tee times or if the resort will try to expand to hold another 140 or so players everyday. Let's remember that they have been working to expand some of the original infrastructure like McKee's Pub in this last calendar year.

 

I have been on property when it was 100% occupied, most of us probably have as that seems to be common, and it seems that between guys wanting to play 36, locals that they've already turned away, and employees with the day off, they could easily fill another tee sheet. Especially in the shoulder seasons when they have a course closed every day for maintenance. I think with some more efficiency in communication with booking clients and some slight changes they could disperse the dinner crowds over to Trails and PD's restaurants pretty easily.

 

Has anyone been since they finished the Pub remodel? It seems that was the weakness in the plan so far. They need one place, McKee's would be the obvious choice, that if every single player on property at any given time showed up, they could accommodate albeit quite crowded.

 

That's the thing that I hear from their patrons that is the biggest turn off. Feeling forced to leave the resort to dine if you don't have reservations when it's real busy. Basically you could probably squeeze up to a 4some in by showing up early or dining late after the bigger rush, but so much of their business is now 20+ people groups, that they need a banquet service room so that one group can't take the whole restaurant or whole pub up for the night. I could even see an old fashioned "fish and chips" fast food option being popular, wrap 'em in newspaper and go! I think it's always a work in progress and there's some red tape as is often the case when management and ownership are different entities.

[duffer987]

^We were there at Thanksgiving and didn't notice any difference inside McKees.

Personally I like getting off site for food - but I can understand if some arrive in larger groups or without transport it can be difficult.

[Rohlio]

^That's it. We all know the ratings are silly to begin with, but there really isn't umpteen places between any of them - regardless of what is offered up as the criteria.

You could get 25 Bandonistas to list their order and it'd be all over the shop, with the caveat that folks would agree collectively they are all top drawer and there is a lot of hair splitting involved.

 

This is totally true! Except that they are all wrong and my order is the correct one!

 

1. Old Mac

2. Bandon

3 Pacific

4. Trails

 

All other rankings are spurious!

[ebrasmus21]

^That's it. We all know the ratings are silly to begin with, but there really isn't umpteen places between any of them - regardless of what is offered up as the criteria.

You could get 25 Bandonistas to list their order and it'd be all over the shop, with the caveat that folks would agree collectively they are all top drawer and there is a lot of hair splitting involved.

 

This is totally true! Except that they are all wrong and my order is the correct one!

 

1. Old Mac

2. Bandon

3 Pacific

4. Trails

 

All other rankings are spurious!

 

Okay Bandonistas - what are the 18 best holes? In other words, if one super-course could be built at the resort what would the 18 holes be?