To what extent does equipment brand matter at PGA level?

[freeze16172002]

Tiger went from mizuno to titleist to nike to taylormade and still hasnt change irons, just a different manufactor stamp

[TollBros]

With Rose's recent win coming a few weeks after his switch to Honma, it leads to the question how much does equipment brand matter to PGA tour pros' performance? There have been a lot of other players recently switching entire bag or portions of their bag and maintaining the same sort of finishes as well. Guys like Koepka seem to have benefited from a mixed bag approach following Nike's equipment exodus.

 

Obviously using some set of Walmart special irons would likely affect play but among the major brands I feel like their is little difference in terms of quality and most differences are more aesthetics and buzz words like "twist face", "jail break", or "rocket ballz" etc.

 

I find it hard to believe that if say DJ suddenly had a full Callaway bag that it would impact his scoring average in a meaningful way, what do you think?

 

To some players it matters a lot. Ask Sergio Garcia how well that Callaway switch went last year. And other guys can adjust much more easily, see Justin Rose. It depends on the individual and of course if the company is going to really invest to make sure they are making the guy one offs to mimic the set up he's comfortable with, which is very common.

[iteachgolf]

Tiger went from mizuno to titleist to nike to taylormade and still hasnt change irons, just a different manufactor stamp

 

Not even close to accurate. Mp14s, 681s, and Mike Taylor irons are very different

[Jagpilotohio]

Tiger went from mizuno to titleist to nike to taylormade and still hasnt change irons, just a different manufactor stamp

 

Not even close to accurate. Mp14s, 681s, and Mike Taylor irons are very different

 

LOL! I know. How many times do we see this “same clubs” stuff reposted here and elsewhere?

 

Once something is repeated enough times it becomes accepted as truth.

[dlygrisse]

It used to matter back in the day. Guys like Payne Stewart were forced to give up their classic blades in favor of oversized GI clubs per their contract and it derailed their careers for a spell. Now the OEM's work closely with the players to get their equipment just right, often milling them special clubs to fit their exact preferences. Usually what they play is NOT what the average guy would buy off the shelf.....although it may resemble it to average consumer.

 

The Rose deal is a perfect example of what the modern OEM's can do. The ball probably makes a bigger difference in this day and age than a perfectly built custom set of irons.

[dlygrisse]

Tiger went from mizuno to titleist to nike to taylormade and still hasnt change irons, just a different manufactor stamp

 

Not even close to accurate. Mp14s, 681s, and Mike Taylor irons are very different

 

LOL! I know. How many times do we see this “same clubs” stuff reposted here and elsewhere?

 

Once something is repeated enough times it becomes accepted as truth.

 

He played several sets of Nike irons that were totally weighted different from the other, even though they were all blades. Mizunos with Titleist stamps were the favorite urban myth for many years. Yeah, they may of all been custom ground for him, and not exactly what you could buy OTR, but they were NOT the same.

[Jagpilotohio]

Has anyone seen all the grind work on the soles of J Days new p760’s??

 

Someone went to town on those bad boys. You ain’t getting that grind off the rack. ; )

[dlygrisse]

Corey Pavin and Lee Janzen both fell off the map after changing clubs, although it was the irons that did them in. Janzen contracted with Hogan to promote a draw biased GI iron, opposite to what he had been playing and to his preferred shot shape. So, it happens, but since the money has gotten so big, an established player doesn't have to make those decisions solely based on money.

 

Pavin won the US Open with the VAS irons. And Woods.

[MattyO1984]

The question from the OP simply cannot be answered completely correctly, because subjectively the answer for each player is going to be different degrees. There are examples of players switching and loving what they have moved to and then there are examples of the polar opposite.

 

Rose has switched over and it has all going swimmingly well. Schauffelle switched from Taylor Made to Callaway last year but for most of 2018 he still had Taylor Made clubs in the bag. I don't think anyone would suggest that Taylor Made is significantly better than Callaway but there was an issue there that prevented him from changing everything over which would suggest for whatever reason, there was a period of time where for him Callaway was not as good as Taylor Made. It could be a comfort thing, it could be a confidence thing, who knows but it was certainly a factor.

 

Same thing with Spieth and his 915D2. It is still in the bag, for whatever reason it is just the right club for him at this present time. Then we have Justin Thomas who immediately went into TS3 despite having won millions of dollars, etc, etc with his 917D2.

 

For some players it is an an issue for others it is not. It is not possible to quantify it based on the tour as a whole.

[Spongerob]

To play their absolute best they have to like what they see. But any tour guy could grab your wife's Walmart special clubs and with a few swings can adapt to them enough to shoot 65 on an average country club course. I've seen it. But they sure wouldn't want to play golf that matters with them.

[nikegal]

It used to matter back in the day. Guys like Payne Stewart were forced to give up their classic blades in favor of oversized GI clubs per their contract and it derailed their careers for a spell. Now the OEM's work closely with the players to get their equipment just right, often milling them special clubs to fit their exact preferences. Usually what they play is NOT what the average guy would buy off the shelf.....although it may resemble it to average consumer.

 

The Rose deal is a perfect example of what the modern OEM's can do. The ball probably makes a bigger difference in this day and age than a perfectly built custom set of irons.

Great point on Payne and that is exactly why Vijay left Staff, because unlike Payne, he refused to make the change, as his contract was up for renewal at that time. Richard has those forged mid-sized irons, and I believe that they were named after their Iconic designer, Bob Mendralla, who basically designed ever Staff iron from the Staff Dynapower blades in the 60’s on through their first cast irons in the late 90’s. I was swinging those old “mid-size” irons and now they’re small, hahaha. Take care DL :) Madison

[dlygrisse]

It used to matter back in the day. Guys like Payne Stewart were forced to give up their classic blades in favor of oversized GI clubs per their contract and it derailed their careers for a spell. Now the OEM's work closely with the players to get their equipment just right, often milling them special clubs to fit their exact preferences. Usually what they play is NOT what the average guy would buy off the shelf.....although it may resemble it to average consumer.

 

The Rose deal is a perfect example of what the modern OEM's can do. The ball probably makes a bigger difference in this day and age than a perfectly built custom set of irons.

Great point on Payne and that is exactly why Vijay left Staff, because unlike Payne, he refused to make the change, as his contract was up for renewal at that time. Richard has those forged mid-sized irons, and I believe that they were named after their Iconic designer, Bob Mendralla, who basically designed ever Staff iron from the Staff Dynapower blades in the 60’s on through their first cast irons in the late 90’s. I was swinging those old “mid-size” irons and now they’re small, hahaha. Take care DL :) Madison

 

I think TopFlite ended up making a set of those cavity backs, can't remember the name, for Payne that were more of a players profile, but with the same backside graphics as the SGI model. Pretty sure you could buy them retail at some point. Trevino used them as well for awhile. IIRC.

[Ferguson]

This is something I'd love to ask a tour player in person if I'd ever met one socialy where they would not be obliged to peddle any kind of product/narrative. They'll never give you a straight answer in the media anyway. My personal believe would be that if you play Titleist blades as a staffer and move to TM they'd have no trouble replicating them because there's no technology anyway. But there's a ton of players who have never been the same again after switching brand so there must be something more going on.

Though you may not meet him in person, you can ask a tour player right here on the board, as I'd bet that he was on both sides of the table through his almost decade long PGA Tour career, and I'm speaking of Patrick Burke(Rangersgoalie) :) M

This is something I'd love to ask a tour player in person if I'd ever met one socialy where they would not be obliged to peddle any kind of product/narrative. They'll never give you a straight answer in the media anyway. My personal believe would be that if you play Titleist blades as a staffer and move to TM they'd have no trouble replicating them because there's no technology anyway. But there's a ton of players who have never been the same again after switching brand so there must be something more going on.

Though you may not meet him in person, you can ask a tour player right here on the board, as I'd bet that he was on both sides of the table through his almost decade long PGA Tour career, and I'm speaking of Patrick Burke(Rangersgoalie) :) M

 

 

Can I help you?

[Cwebb]

It was a potentially a really big deal back in the day. Not nearly as big today, because of where technology is and all the fitting equipment and data that is available

[munichop]

To me the common aspect of the question for each player, cause they are individuals after all, is confidence. At the tour level every one who is in an event can hit the shot required but only one guy each event does it better than anyone else. Equipment and performance are intertwined and together they create confidence or a lack of it for each player when they get one chance to execute the shot at hand. They all do prep work and try to develop a strategy to shoot the lowest but standing over the ball knowing it will go where you intend it to go is about confidence. For some guys the switch to new stuff erodes that feeling for others it enhances it. So if you want to see what guys do when money is no object check out the champions tour where there is little to no endorsement money for clubs. You will see some funky sets; like Langer for instance.

I would say right now Justin Rose is pretty happy with his switch, Fowler still a work in progress and Bubba is happy his volvik days are behind him.

[Ferguson]

To me the common aspect of the question for each player, cause they are individuals after all, is confidence. At the tour level every one who is in an event can hit the shot required but only one guy each event does it better than anyone else. Equipment and performance are intertwined and together they create confidence or a lack of it for each player when they get one chance to execute the shot at hand. They all do prep work and try to develop a strategy to shoot the lowest but standing over the ball knowing it will go where you intend it to go is about confidence. For some guys the switch to new stuff erodes that feeling for others it enhances it. So if you want to see what guys do when money is no object check out the champions tour where there is little to no endorsement money for clubs. You will see some funky sets; like Langer for instance.

I would say right now Justin Rose is pretty happy with his switch, Fowler still a work in progress and Bubba is happy his volvik days are behind him.

 

 

Let's face it - Rose is in a good place presently. He throwing darts. I would say the clubs are going to make him a real threat at the majors.

[RobertBaron]

Well it’s not like they’re picking up their clubs for the first time playing a tournament. They have months to test equipment and get comfortable with them. Considering most play forged blades, there really isn’t all that much difference between their irons. Especially since they can have them custom ground and weighted to their heart’s desire. So really it comes down woods and shafts. There probably isn’t all that much difference between tour heads of the different manufacturers especially when they are hitting hit dead center sweet spot 99% of the time and can play whatever they shaft they want.

 

Overall equipment matters very little at that level