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Do you spec out your new / old clubs?


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I spent my crappy Sunday out in the garage on my loft and lie machine. I decided I needed to spec out all of the iron sets I have been known to play with and then build a spreadsheet on my computer to keep track of all the specs. Yes, I realize this was a total nerd thing to do, but what the hell else am I gonna do while its raining and sleeting outside, right?

 

I only had a chance to overexert myself twice today. Once when I slipped on the ice in the driveway and caught myself on the side view mirror of my car before I busted my arse (can't believe I didn't break the mirror), and second when I had to bend a Ping Eye 2 (6 iron) 3 degrees weaker. For those of you with club bending experience, I don't have to tell you what a PITA bending a Ping iron by 3 degrees in any direction can be. For those of you who have never had the pleasure, lets just say it will wear your butt out...which it did this old timer. Took me about 30 minutes on that one 6 iron!

 

But anyway, sitting here studying all these numbers and it's just amazing to me how the different manufacturers were all over the damned place with their specs. So I want to ask my fellow tinkerers a question: When you acquire a new set of old clubs, do you ever bother to spec them out? Or do you just play em as is? I generally check length because I play longer irons. If its a set that I intend to play quite a bit, they usually get shaft extensions or a shaft swap. But this was the first time I had really paid closer attention to the lies, lofts and the gaps between them. Mostly, I just check the loft on the wedges to see what I'm working with and then go play em. But now I think I will inventory the whole sets and keep building out my spreadsheet. The sets that got added to the spreadsheet today were:

 

Cleveland TA7 irons (my A game set that I can't get out of the bag)

Ping Eye 2

Hogan Redline

Hogan Producers

Founders Club 200 Series

Palmer Standards

Macgregor Reverse Drafts

 

Curious to hear what everyone else does.

Cobra F9 Driver 10.5 (9.5) UST ProForce V2 HL 47"

Taylormade M4 3HL UST ProForce V2 HL 45"

Cobra Bio Cell 3-4 (20.5) Stock Bio Cell 41.75"

3-W Ping Eye 2 White Dot +1.5" ZZ lite

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 56(54) & 60(59) TT Traction Wedge Flex Both 36.75"

Cleveland Classic Huntington Beach #10 35.5"

 

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Yes, I'll create a spreadsheet for "new" irons (all implements for that matter) and those of the classical variety that have potential as L/T keepers subject to modifications.

 

Standard loft, lie, length numbers and adjusted (add length and more upright also). Bounce numbers if known. Swing weight, and the amount of weight added to a head. Head weight. Grip type and weight. Shaft info: Raw weight, tip trim, cut weight. Same for woods and hybrids. As much information as can be gathered about the clubs I'm tinkering with. Use the information as something of a benchmark for subsequent builds. Might not be the same, but at least I have reference points. Info on classic clubs may require research and all the figures may not be found. I know what my "spec" preferences are and will build/modify towards that end.

 

On classic clubs, the amount of information gathered and how much putzing I perform on them is based on "it all depends". Categorize them as: 1.) Interesting implements, but unlikely to ever see a course. They get minimal enhancements other than a cleanup. 2.) Have possibilities as potential players. Will install some fresh grips (not necessarily new), add extensions and see how they play. These hang around for awhile thinking they may get some use. But if they haven't been played in two years, I tend to sell them off. 3.) Definitely keepers. Will get the full makeover, adjusted lies, may include a reshaft. Only two have met this criteria. These are the ones I will chronicle.

Laissez les bons temps rouler!

OGA - Mitglied Nummer Sechs

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Yes, I'll create a spreadsheet for "new" irons (all implements for that matter) and those of the classical variety that have potential as L/T keepers subject to modifications.

 

Standard loft, lie, length numbers and adjusted (add length and more upright also). Bounce numbers if known. Swing weight, and the amount of weight added to a head. Head weight. Grip type and weight. Shaft info: Raw weight, tip trim, cut weight. Same for woods and hybrids. As much information as can be gathered about the clubs I'm tinkering with. Use the information as something of a benchmark for subsequent builds. Might not be the same, but at least I have reference points. Info on classic clubs may require research and all the figures may not be found. I know what my "spec" preferences are and will build/modify towards that end.

 

On classic clubs, the amount of information gathered and how much putzing I perform on them is based on "it all depends". Categorize them as: 1.) Interesting implements, but unlikely to ever see a course. They get minimal enhancements other than a cleanup. 2.) Have possibilities as potential players. Will install some fresh grips (not necessarily new), add extensions and see how they play. These hang around for awhile thinking they may get some use. But if they haven't been played in two years, I tend to sell them off. 3.) Definitely keepers. Will get the full makeover, adjusted lies, may include a reshaft. Only two have met this criteria. These are the ones I will chronicle.

 

You're more thorough than I am. I just did loft, lie, length, shaft type, swingweight and total weight. I wish I had a deflection board or a frequency machine so that I could dial in the shaft flex better. Funny that I group my clubs similarly like you do. The ones I don't plan on playing, I don't touch other than cleaning them. But if I want to give them a fair shot at being a playable set, they always get a length adjustment first. If I decide to keep them in the rotation, I will often swap out the shafts for something I know will work well for me.

Cobra F9 Driver 10.5 (9.5) UST ProForce V2 HL 47"

Taylormade M4 3HL UST ProForce V2 HL 45"

Cobra Bio Cell 3-4 (20.5) Stock Bio Cell 41.75"

3-W Ping Eye 2 White Dot +1.5" ZZ lite

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 56(54) & 60(59) TT Traction Wedge Flex Both 36.75"

Cleveland Classic Huntington Beach #10 35.5"

 

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I generally play a different vintage set each week and have no idea of the lofts of any of them, I just go on a rough idea based on approximate decade of manufacture, but that could still be miles out based on how close was my guess of year of manufacture, what the original spec was and if it's changed at all through play or being adjusted at some time in the past!

 

I'd love to know the lofts of all my sets but don't have a loft lie machine to measure them, I've tried fiddling round with a protractor but that was hopeless.

Is there a simple but effective way to measure loft without a loft lie machine?

It's not all about the score.

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I'll generally play them as they are first, and they adjust lies if I feel the need. Also, if I find the distances I hitting the irons are whacked, I'll check the lofts. That can produce some surprises. A set of Mizunos from 1994 had a 7i with 32* of loft. No wonder I was hitting it long every time....

 

I usually get new grips, and occasionally new shafts or extensions, but I try to find irons that have a shaft I can play.

And yes, I keep a spreadsheet of lofts and lies as well.

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Arch. Keeping track of specs of a build is an old habit. Going back to the beginning of my component club building days. A means to remember what the heck I was doing during the learning process. Record so I don't have to remember.

 

Always length first. I'm taller with short arms (38.5" WTF). Cannot hit an iron decently if I feel it's to short. Lie angles can be "manipulated" during an evaluation phase.

 

The one glaring omission to the work bench is not having a bending machine. Had a hard time justifying the funds required to acquire a decent one, never have run across one on the cheap. Figured how much use would it get back in the time of only one set of golf clubs. Obviously, this was pre-WRX and the proliferation of classic irons. At $5.00 per from my local bender, there is a reluctancy to have any and all irons adjusted. Only the keepers.

 

Jiggered. It's possible to perform a DIY method for checking lofts (and lies). Requiring a level, bubble level and a cheap magnetic protractor. Works better on carbon steel heads than SS. While not perfect like an expensive gauge, it's close enough to ascertain what the measurements are. Actually if done correctly, it's surprisingly accurate. Just have to make sure the club is square before measuring. Here's the tutorial on how to do it. Post #10 in particular for DIY loft measurement.

 

Edit add: Just remembered a story I read about Lee Trevino (or was it Lanny Watkins, can't remember) on how he adjusted the lie on an off-spec club. Whacked it on a concrete floor a few times until...... "There. That looks just about right".

Laissez les bons temps rouler!

OGA - Mitglied Nummer Sechs

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The one glaring omission to the work bench is not having a bending machine. Had a hard time justifying the funds required to acquire a decent one, never have run across one on the cheap. Figured how much use would it get back in the time of only one set of golf clubs. Obviously, this was pre-WRX and the proliferation of classic irons. At $5.00 per from my local bender, there is a reluctancy to have any and all irons adjusted. Only the keepers.

 

 

I was delighted last year when I found out the range I go to has a workshop than anyone can use. So far, I have only mastered the lie/loft machine, but it means I have already saved a small fortune by bending my irons myself. Oh, and the belt sander also came in handy when I wanted to grind a wedge.

They have a machine for measuring shaft frequency as well, but I haven't figured out how to use it yet...

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I stopped adjusting the loft angles for the iron sets as long as the gap between sticks makes sense, may be tweak the lie angle once in awhile.

I gave up on making all the 7 irons in different set fly the same distance, instead, in some set replacing the 7 iron with the 6.I'll use thinking the 150 yard club, instead of the number stamped on the sole. Some set I'll go up one club or two and some set I'll go down one number.

It's not just the loft angle, the shaft also makes a lot of difference for distance and the trajectory control, even the roll out distance.

Different length weight and flex all have influence on the ball flight.

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I'd love to know the lofts of all my sets but don't have a loft lie machine to measure them, I've tried fiddling round with a protractor but that was hopeless.

Is there a simple but effective way to measure loft without a loft lie machine?

 

If you're really lazy like me then you could download a clinometer app to your cell phone. I have used mine to measure loft and it's quit accurate provided you take the time to clamp the shaft and ensure that the sole is level.

Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!
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I set all my sets up to very specific loft and lie numbers so my clubs are very consistent set to set. I also generally like the weights to be about the same but depending on the set I buy I may just play the stock weight. I am also particular about shaft flex, so unless I am planning to reshaft the set, I won't buy clubs if they don't have the flex I am looking for.

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Good stuff.

 

Fella - I had a tough time justifying the cost of a great club bending machine too because I just use it for my own tinkering. I went with the cheap economy model from Golfworks and have been stunned at how well it works I bolted metal plates under and on top of my work bench to anchor the thing without tearing up my bench and it works great. I always double check the measurements with a protractor and using bubble levels (which I learned here on WRX) But that cheap machine is surprisingly accurate. I too am very tall with short arms, so everything needs a length adjustment for me...and usually lie angle too.

 

Jiggered - Check out the threads on here that describe using the bubble levels and a protractor. It's a great "McGyver" type method for measuring and takes some time to set up but its very accurate. I always double check my bends this way. Or more importantly, confirm that it needs a bend first before taking one on. I checked and double checked that Ping 6 iron 3 times yesterday because I refused to believe the loft could have been that far off. The previous owner must have hit a boulder or a serious tree root to throw off the loft that much.

 

Scomac - I'm going to have to check out that phone app. It sounds worthwhile. Any particular app you would recommend???

 

Catchy - I love that the range you go to has a work shop. That's a great idea but also very scary letting others use their tools. I guess they don't have the trust issues that I have :)

Cobra F9 Driver 10.5 (9.5) UST ProForce V2 HL 47"

Taylormade M4 3HL UST ProForce V2 HL 45"

Cobra Bio Cell 3-4 (20.5) Stock Bio Cell 41.75"

3-W Ping Eye 2 White Dot +1.5" ZZ lite

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 56(54) & 60(59) TT Traction Wedge Flex Both 36.75"

Cleveland Classic Huntington Beach #10 35.5"

 

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I put any new acquisitions on the lie and loft machine and set to "factory" specs -- or as close to those specs as I can find. My club has a lie and loft machine so I take them over there and do it myself -- the specs are usually way off.

 

Recently checked sets include:

 

Redlines

Apex 92 Ft Worth

Apex PC

Personals

 

Anyone sensing a pattern?

WITB:
Driver: Taylormade Sim Max 10.5*
3 Wood: Titleist 915f 15*
Hybrid: Titleist 816 H2 19*
Irons: Titleist 716 CB 4-7; 716 MB 8-P
Wedges: Vokey sm6 52, 56, 60
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Studio Style

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Bigarch the clinometer app I use is published by plaincode. It's an older one, but works fine for my purposes. There maybe something better out there now. I think I got the suggestion to download it from the clubmaking section here on WRX.

Your problem is LOFT -- Lack of friggin' talent!
_____________________________________

TM RBZ Black 12°

Cobra Baffler Rail F 15.5°/20°

TM '09 Rescue 25°

Adams Idea Tech 28°

TM Burner Plus 7-AW

Cleveland CBX 56°

Never Compromise NCX RAY tau

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This remind me of one particular golf club repair hop in town. The place has the only digital automated loft and lie adjustment with hydraulic power for bending, that I know of.

All the fitter does is to input the loft and lie bunbers and just push a bottom and everything will be done in 5 seconds. He charges $4 per club to bend the loft and the lie with a lifetime adjustment policy if the numbers need to be tweaked in the future.

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Do you spec out your new / old clubs?

 

Curious to hear what everyone else does.

 

 

I'm not particularly tall, but have short arms, and as such play an upright lie angle. I really should be playing a 63* 5 iron in my Rams, at 37.75" or 38" club length. For the most part, I'll have any set I get bent to those lie angles. I've been moderating that a degree flatter in recent years, but not for any change in swing or arm length. ;)

 

For lofts, I try to keep them close to their standard, though I've tweaked that a bit, such as with my 1980 Golden Rams, where I went 20* to 52* in even 4* increments for 2-PW. My Ram FX Nickels are set to a 27* 5 iron and 47* PW, which is spec for them.

 

As far as shafts, I'll reshaft where necessary. I'm a high trajectory player, something low bend/soft tip would be a poor fit for me. KBS Tours turned out to be not so wonderful, as an example.

 

And so on. :)

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft pending); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400; Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 58*, Dynamic S; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or TaylorMade TP5

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Catchy - I love that the range you go to has a work shop. That's a great idea but also very scary letting others use their tools. I guess they don't have the trust issues that I have :)

 

The pro whose shop it was retired, leaving his tools to the range. They have a couple of teaching pros there, but they don't use seem to use the workshop very much. I've never seen anyone but me else use it.

Being able to adjust the lies and lofts myself has helped my club 'going enormously, because I have been able to save so much doing it myself. I want to get around to regripping and reshafting clubs myself at some point, but all in good time.

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I spent my crappy Sunday out in the garage on my loft and lie machine. I decided I needed to spec out all of the iron sets I have been known to play with and then build a spreadsheet on my computer to keep track of all the specs. Yes, I realize this was a total nerd thing to do, but what the hell else am I gonna do while its raining and sleeting outside, right?

 

I only had a chance to overexert myself twice today. Once when I slipped on the ice in the driveway and caught myself on the side view mirror of my car before I busted my arse (can't believe I didn't break the mirror), and second when I had to bend a Ping Eye 2 (6 iron) 3 degrees weaker. For those of you with club bending experience, I don't have to tell you what a PITA bending a Ping iron by 3 degrees in any direction can be. For those of you who have never had the pleasure, lets just say it will wear your butt out...which it did this old timer. Took me about 30 minutes on that one 6 iron!

 

But anyway, sitting here studying all these numbers and it's just amazing to me how the different manufacturers were all over the damned place with their specs. So I want to ask my fellow tinkerers a question: When you acquire a new set of old clubs, do you ever bother to spec them out? Or do you just play em as is? I generally check length because I play longer irons. If its a set that I intend to play quite a bit, they usually get shaft extensions or a shaft swap. But this was the first time I had really paid closer attention to the lies, lofts and the gaps between them. Mostly, I just check the loft on the wedges to see what I'm working with and then go play em. But now I think I will inventory the whole sets and keep building out my spreadsheet. The sets that got added to the spreadsheet today were:

 

Cleveland TA7 irons (my A game set that I can't get out of the bag)

Ping Eye 2

Hogan Redline

Hogan Producers

Founders Club 200 Series

Palmer Standards

Macgregor Reverse Drafts

 

Curious to hear what everyone else does.

always thought PING clubs should go to PING for adjustments, I understand it does not cost much, and they know how to handle those clubs.

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Arch. Keeping track of specs of a build is an old habit. Going back to the beginning of my component club building days. A means to remember what the heck I was doing during the learning process. Record so I don't have to remember.

 

Always length first. I'm taller with short arms (38.5" WTF). Cannot hit an iron decently if I feel it's to short. Lie angles can be "manipulated" during an evaluation phase.

 

The one glaring omission to the work bench is not having a bending machine. Had a hard time justifying the funds required to acquire a decent one, never have run across one on the cheap. Figured how much use would it get back in the time of only one set of golf clubs. Obviously, this was pre-WRX and the proliferation of classic irons. At $5.00 per from my local bender, there is a reluctancy to have any and all irons adjusted. Only the keepers.

 

Jiggered. It's possible to perform a DIY method for checking lofts (and lies). Requiring a level, bubble level and a cheap magnetic protractor. Works better on carbon steel heads than SS. While not perfect like an expensive gauge, it's close enough to ascertain what the measurements are. Actually if done correctly, it's surprisingly accurate. Just have to make sure the club is square before measuring. Here's the tutorial on how to do it. Post #10 in particular for DIY loft measurement.

 

Edit add: Just remembered a story I read about Lee Trevino (or was it Lanny Watkins, can't remember) on how he adjusted the lie on an off-spec club. Whacked it on a concrete floor a few times until...... "There. That looks just about right".

 

Hey Fella, just thought I would throw this out there. The economy bending machine from golfworks is marked down right now. Its the same one I have and it works surprisingly well. You might want to give it a look. https://www.golfworks.com/economy-iron-bending-machine/p/gw0053/

Cobra F9 Driver 10.5 (9.5) UST ProForce V2 HL 47"

Taylormade M4 3HL UST ProForce V2 HL 45"

Cobra Bio Cell 3-4 (20.5) Stock Bio Cell 41.75"

3-W Ping Eye 2 White Dot +1.5" ZZ lite

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 56(54) & 60(59) TT Traction Wedge Flex Both 36.75"

Cleveland Classic Huntington Beach #10 35.5"

 

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Super Peening Blue

 

Edit add: Just remembered a story I read about Lee Trevino (or was it Lanny Watkins, can't remember) on how he adjusted the lie on an off-spec club. Whacked it on a concrete floor a few times until...... "There. That looks just about right".

 

Trevino.... what a guy... brings back an old memory from the '89 US Open at Oak Hill in Rochester, NY, I was a rookie at going to a PGA tour event so wasn't really up on the etiquette in obtaining autographs... while at the 1st tee (practice round)... Norman, Watson, Wadkins and 1 other I don't recall were just walking around shooting the breeze waiting for the fairway to clear... I was close enough to ask them to autograph my hat... It was as if I didn't even exist.. no acknowledgement at all so I said to myself.. ok thanks for nothing guys.... later that day I was near the 5th green watching Trevino play to the crowd.... As he left the green and started the walk up to the 6th tee(160 or170 yds away) I grabbed a Marshall gave him my hat and a sharpie and asked him if he could get Mr. Trevino's autograph for me... he caught up to Trevino and asked him to sign my hat... so he turned around and walked at least 100 yards back to where I was.. signed the hat, shook my hand and asked me how I was doing....then he walked up to the tee and hit it to about 3 feet, as he walked back past me he looked right at me and winked.... that hat is still in a protective plastic bag in my closet and his is the only autograph on it.....what a nice man he is... Thanks for bringing back that memory......

Taylor Made M2 Driver  12* Stock shaft R flex

Taylor Made M2 HL 3wood 16* Stock shaft R flex

Adams A3 OS Boxer  2,3,4,5 Hybrid Pro Launch Platinum R flex shaft

Cobra King F7 One Length irons 6-SW Pro Launch Blue R flex shafts

Putters vary... can't find perfection

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For my main gamers, I've documented the length, lies, lofts, total weight, bp, and estimated SW.

 

It takes some time and money to get them spot on, so I only have one full set right now how I want them.

Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
2-10 - 1954 Spalding Synchro Dyned
SW - Wilson Staff
Putter - Bullseye
Ball - Pro Plus

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I measure pretty much every set of irons I pick up. I'll research what the original specs were and try my best to return them to that. I too then record everything in charts in a book. No spreadsheets for me - I've lost too much data that way. I find that changing the loft tends to ruin the original designers idea of how they should play/feel, and the original feel is at least half of why I'm doing this in the first place. I've gone down the "improve to modern standards" road and have personally been disappointed almost every time. I might reshaft or lengthen but it's not very often.

 

 

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With me usually I play them as I find them unless when eyeballing them I see something amiss. Sometimes being where I get most of my stuff I will run into that. My Mac specs I know by heart. Other stuff I have a notebook that I write stock specs in and shaft info etc. Like you I double check my bends with a protractor. I also have some POS clubs that are not hit that have been checked on other machines for reference and I will check my machine from time to time and then double check my test club with the protractor. Some clubs I have not ever checked like my Precisions because they hit good for me on the get go. Pings you can take the time and heat them some before bending and then check them after they cool. The downside to that is even though you are not heating them that much I still re epoxy them.

Driver--- Honma G1-X Stock Regular shaft

3W Callaway Steel Head UST 65 Pro Force Gold Stiff

2I-- 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R steel shaft

Irons 4 thru PW 1980 Mac Vip Hogan Apex #2 shafts

SW Cleveland 588 56* S- 400 Sensicore

Putter Old Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye fluted shaft

Bag Old Ping Hoofer I had in my stash

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      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       

       
      2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play - Monday #1
      2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play - Monday #2
      2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play - Monday #3
      2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play - Monday #4
      2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play - Monday #5
      2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play - Monday #6
       
       

       
      Hideki testing putters at WGC Dell Technologies Match Play
      Odyssey/Toulon Atlanta putter - 2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play
      Cameron putters - 2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play
      Patrick Reed testing TPT shafts 2021 WGC Dell Technologies Match Play
       
       
      • 54 replies
    • 2021 Players - discussion and links
      Please post any questions or comments here
       
       

       
      2021 Players - Monday #1
      2021 Players - Monday #2
      2021 Players - Monday #3
      2021 Players - Monday #4
      2021 Players - Tuesday #1
      2021 Players - Tuesday #2
      2021 Players - Tuesday #3
      2021 Players - Tuesday #4
      2021 Players - Tuesday #5
      2021 Players - Tuesday #6
       
       

       
      Maverick McNealy's custom 1 of 1 Callaway Apex MB irons - 2021 Players
      Adam Long's Cameron T-5 proto - 2021 Players
      Abraham Ancer's custom Muira irons and custom MMT shafts - 2021 Players
      Bettinardi putters & cover - 2021 Players
      Jon Rahm's bag - 2021 Players
      Xander Schauffele's bag - 2021 Players
      Sergio with a Cameron putter - 2021 Players
      Cameron T11 & 11.5 putters - 2021 Players
      Sergio Garcia's clubs - 2021 Players
      Scott Brown's Odyssey gamer - 2021 Players
       
       
       
      • 52 replies

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