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Is the Pro V1 in trouble?


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Anyone seen head-to-head Snell MTB Black vs ProV1 or MTB Red vs ProV1x? I'd put money on Snell.

Titleist also has lots of head pros at private clubs on their staff.

Is there anybody not being paid to play a ball on tour?

Not many are Pro V1X winners. I think the Titleist dynasty had run it's course, especially after the Costco's original 4 piece K Sig. at $20 per doz. That was an industry shaker ! I wonder if the player counts will drop if they do away with the lucrative bonus paid to the player staffs. Titleist seemed to pay their player staff the highest endorsement fee. Is The Titleist still paying the tee off bonus of $5,000 ? Or the tee price had gone up or down nowadays ?

 

Ksig although a good ball was nothing more than viral hype and so hard to get I have only seen them once in the store and have only found one on the course (and I play 50+ rounds a year). This is no different than in years past when some cheaper price ball goes viral. No different than the Preciept Lady, no different than the MG, etc.. Ksig will sell but if they tried to compete with the big dogs and sell in retail golf shops it would be a dud

 

Long as Titleist keeps with the overall ball count every week like they have been for over a decade they will be ok. Saying "Not many are ProV1x winners" is kind of silly. Hell most of the TP5 wins are TP5x and that does not mean the TP5 line as a whole is in trouble.

Yir correct that even the original K Sig as popular as it was on the internet I had only played with several golfers whom had it, and I only play about 30 rounds last year.

The point is, once the myth of the price of golf balls between MSRP Vs. VALUE is busted, the earth is actually flat and the search for the end of the world ENDED. golfers are now more open to explore the other brands of golf balls instead of grabbing the Titleist as the life line in hope to better their golf game.

In fact, the edge the Pro V1 had over the rest against the rest of the field is diminishing, wishing to hold on to the leader's thrown without innovation is , just a wishful thinking.

I don't know if I'll see it but, eventually a golf ball with a single material will dominate the market. I just wish whatever they come up with will be environmentally friendly besides the playability.

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ProV1 is no doubt still the benchmark, however, the only thing we can be sure of is the assurance of change. Titleist at some point in the future will become just one of the boys, but not yet. They were the original innovator of the modern ball, so there is a brand loyalty there to all those out there who were in their golf prime when the original came out years ago. The ball felt amazing and was leaps and bounds above everything else. All those loyalist will have to "die off" if you will to tilt the scales back to neutral for other manufacturers who have technically caught up.

The human brain will see what it wants to see when brand loyalists are comparing other premium balls to the prov1, despite physics saying there's not much difference at all. Nothing wrong with that-if the prov1 gives someone a mental edge, you need all the edge you can get in this game.

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As of October titleist had 45% market share down 1%, Callaway had 16% down 1% Tm and Bridgestone had 10% each up 1% each.

 

It's going to be awhile before anyone catches titleist market share. TM or Bridgestone probavky carch Callaway before anyone them really cut into titleist

Those are overall numbers including DT Soft etc correct? One must think some golfers are going to realized there are tour level balls available at DT Soft or Tour Soft pricing.

 

BTW, Such a hype when the Tour Soft came out and most people I know who tried it didn't like the performance regardless of price.

 

Titleist took a long time to have a yellow tour ball and really for those who golf on a budget they have priced themselves out of the premium market.

 

I wonder if you strictly tallied up retail and online sales (omit proshop and country club sales where Titleist and Pinnacle are the only options) what the split would be.

 

Is Titleist going away.... no. Are they at risk of losing another 5% market share over the next 5 years. Very good possibility. Question is do they care? If their margins are high enough a 5% hit may be better than weakening their brand perspective by lowering their price.

Cobra F7+ - Stiff
Callaway V-Series 3 & 5 wood with Aldila Rouge Silver
Srixon 585 5-AW - Modus 105 Stiff
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 53 & 58 Degree
EVNROLL ER5
Srixon XV - Yellow

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As of October titleist had 45% market share down 1%, Callaway had 16% down 1% Tm and Bridgestone had 10% each up 1% each.

 

It's going to be awhile before anyone catches titleist market share. TM or Bridgestone probavky carch Callaway before anyone them really cut into titleist

Those are overall numbers including DT Soft etc correct? One must think some golfers are going to realized there are tour level balls available at DT Soft or Tour Soft pricing.

 

BTW, Such a hype when the Tour Soft came out and most people I know who tried it didn't like the performance regardless of price.

 

Titleist took a long time to have a yellow tour ball and really for those who golf on a budget they have priced themselves out of the premium market.

 

I wonder if you strictly tallied up retail and online sales (omit proshop and country club sales where Titleist and Pinnacle are the only options) what the split would be.

 

Is Titleist going away.... no. Are they at risk of losing another 5% market share over the next 5 years. Very good possibility. Question is do they care? If their margins are high enough a 5% hit may be better than weakening their brand perspective by lowering their price.

 

I was one of the testers here on WRX for the Tour Soft. I didnt enjoy it at all. Add the price to it and it wasn't even on the radar. Tried out the AVX, I could use it if I practiced enough with it around the greens. Off the tee it was good-but still not enough to dethrone the Chrome Soft X.

 

I am going to be honest, when I started playing and was losing 6 balls a round there was zero way I was paying for ProV type balls. Now I am more consistent and I have always played my best golf with w ProV1x, even though I used CSX Truvis (liked the pattern). I am going back to the PV1X this year and going to stay with it for the majority of the season. Every premium ball seems to be a wash until I get around the greens and I just prefer the feel of PV1X's over everything. If they had Truvis it wouldn't even be a thought, the yellow option helps a lot though.

WITB:
*Ping G410 LST Tensei Pro Orange 60
*Taylormade M3 15* Tensei Blue
*Ping i25 Hybrid 18*
*Titleist T100-S C-taper 120s
*Vokey SM8 Jet Black Limited 56/60
*Toulon Atlanta Stroke Lab slant
*Vice Pro Plus
*Nike camo cart bag.
 

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Given it's the #1 ball on Tour by 2.5 - 3:1 and it has the same number of Tour wins as Callaway I'd be a bit nervous if I was Titleist.

Driver - Home Callaway MAVRIK / G400 MAX
Woods - XXIO 10 3W
Hybrids - XXIO 10 3H, 4H, 5H
Irons - Home - PXG Gen 2 0311P 5-SW   Away - Callaway Epic Forged 5-SW
Wedge - Callaway MD5 JAWS X Grind 60* 
Putter - Odyssey Triple Track 7
Ball - TM TP5X, TM Tour Response

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Genesis Open 2019

Titliest Pro V1-96

Competitors-22

Winner-SRIXON

 

UPDATED:

Safeway open- Kevin Tway Pro V1

Cimb classic- Mark leishmania Chrome soft

CJ cup-Brooks Koepka Pro V1

Wgc-hsbc championship- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sanderson farms- Cameron Champ Srixon Z star

Shriners- Bryson Dechambeau Bridgestone BX

OHL classic- Matt Kuchar Bridgestone BX

RSM classic- Charles Howell III Pro V1

Hero world challenge- John Rahm TP5

Tournament of champions- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sony Open- Matt Kuchar bridgestone BX

Career builder challenge- A. Long Pro V1

Farmers insurance- Justin Rose Tp5

Phoenix open- Ricky FowlerTP5

Attached pebble beach- Phil Mickelson chrome soft

Genesis Open- J B Holmes Srixon Z Star.

 

Titliest-4

Callaway-4

Taylormade-3

Bridgestone-3

Srixon-2

 

75+% of the tour "market", but only 25% of the tour wins.

 

Hmmm... :mellow:

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Tiger played a Nike ball and won 80 times. During his prime, did we argue Nike was the best ball (over Titleist) because of WIN%? I think not...

Titleist TSi3 (Driver)
Titleist TSi3 (3 Wood)

Titleist u510 (2-Iron)
Titleist T200 (4-W)
Titleist SM8 (52 & 56)
Newport 1.5 Studio Stainless Prototype

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They were the original innovator of the modern ball,

 

If you mean the modern solid core ball with a spinny cover then no they weren't the original innovator. The first to be used, and win, on pro tours was the Topflight Strata and I believe there was another company or two had similar balls out before Titleist did.

Ping G410 Plus 10.5°/Alta CB55 r flex
Maltby KE4 TC 5w/Xcaliber SL FW r flex

Maltby KE4 ST-H 3h/Xcaliber HY r flex
Maltby KE4 ST-H 4h/Xcaliber HY r flex
Maltby KE4 Tour 5h/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex
Maltby KE4 Tour+ 6-G/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex
Maltby Tricept 54° and 58°/Xcaliber Rapid Taper r flex
Mizuno Bettinardi C06

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I haven't played a ProV1 I haven't found in close to 10 years, maybe longer.

 

Marketing only goes so far, still can't convince me that a ProV1 @ $4+ a ball, is that much, if any, better than those I get for $3 or less.

 

I wonder how many PGA guys play Titleist cuz they're paid to do so? Those guys are good enough, and ball performance close enough across OEMs, that they could likely win with about any brand (except Volvik, as Bubba clearly demonstrated)

 

I wonder how many PGA guys play non-Titleist balls cuz they're paid to do so?

 

answer: all of them

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There is the ball that changed the ball. LOL I did read a Callaway Engineer say "we haven't even scratched the surface on what golf balls will do in the future"

 

To relate it to us hacks. If a pen manufacturer gave me $5,000 every Monday morning to use their pen and said pen exploded ink all over my desk I'd think well that sucks. The following Monday I'd have paper towels on hand to clean up while I deposited said 5 grand. repeat every Monday

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At one point in time, Sears Roebuck & Company was the #1 retailer in the US, and also had the largest availability of products for delivery, via catalog/phone sales.

 

And, I'm sure that there were those who said that Sears was never going to go away.

 

The only thing certain is the uncertainty of how things turn out, whether in business or sports.

 

This is so true. I remember when Titleist could barely sell clubs, the only thing they were known for was balls and Footjoy products. They weren't really known as a club company till the 1990's. Sure they sold them, but they were inferior and not widely used. MacGregor, Ram, Wilson, Spalding and Hogan were the leaders in selling clubs.

 

In 1975 no one would have ever thought Most of the companies would be out of business, or the golf business. Wilson is a minor player now, and only exists because of their range of products. Wilson was the most dominant name in golf, similar to TM or Callaway now for many, many years.

 

It would not surprise me one bit if 10 years from now someone else took the bulk of their market share. Until then they still rule the roost.

I pick 14 of the following:
Ping G400
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood
Ping G 400 4 hybrid
Ping G 4-U
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS
Grips NDMC +4
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer
ProV1x-mostly
ECCO Biom Hybrid 3

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Not in trouble per se, but definitely losing market share. I used to only want to play ProV but now I'll happily play my TP5X and if I need some more spin, TP5... and if I somehow need even more, then Chrome Soft or Kirkland. In the past year or so, I've really realized how similar most balls are now so I buy mostly on price and feel.

Taylormade SIM Max 9* - Ventus Black 6x

Cobra Speedzone Big 3 Tour - Accra FX 2.0 370 M5

Cobra Speedzone - Accra FX 2.0 380 M5

Titleist 818H1 - Ventus Blue 10x

Cobra Forged Tec Black 6i, Forged CB 6-GW - AMT X100 Onyx

Titleist SM8 54.12D, 58.8M - S400 Tour Issue Onyx

Custom Atwood

TP5 (testing Vice Pro)

 

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UPDATED:

Safeway open- Kevin Tway Pro V1

Cimb classic- Mark leishmania Chrome soft

CJ cup-Brooks Koepka Pro V1

Wgc-hsbc championship- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sanderson farms- Cameron Champ Srixon Z star

Shriners- Bryson Dechambeau Bridgestone BX

OHL classic- Matt Kuchar Bridgestone BX

RSM classic- Charles Howell III Pro V1

Hero world challenge- John Rahm TP5

Tournament of champions- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sony Open- Matt Kuchar bridgestone BX

Career builder challenge- A. Long Pro V1

Farmers insurance- Justin Rose Tp5

Phoenix open- Ricky FowlerTP5

Attached pebble beach- Phil Mickelson chrome soft

Genesis Open- J B Holmes Srixon Z Star.

Puerto Rico Open- Martin Trainer Srixon Z Star

 

Titliest-4

Callaway-4

Taylormade-3

Bridgestone-3

Srixon-3

 

 

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UPDATED:

Safeway open- Kevin Tway Pro V1

Cimb classic- Mark leishmania Chrome soft

CJ cup-Brooks Koepka Pro V1

Wgc-hsbc championship- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sanderson farms- Cameron Champ Srixon Z star

Shriners- Bryson Dechambeau Bridgestone BX

OHL classic- Matt Kuchar Bridgestone BX

RSM classic- Charles Howell III Pro V1

Hero world challenge- John Rahm TP5

Tournament of champions- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sony Open- Matt Kuchar bridgestone BX

Career builder challenge- A. Long Pro V1

Farmers insurance- Justin Rose Tp5

Phoenix open- Ricky FowlerTP5

Attached pebble beach- Phil Mickelson chrome soft

Genesis Open- J B Holmes Srixon Z Star.

Puerto Rico Open- Martin Trainer Srixon Z Star

WGC-Mexico- Dustin Johnson TP5

 

Titliest-4

Callaway-4

Taylormade-4

Bridgestone-3

Srixon-3

 

For all those trying to discredit Choo, I have been on point every prediction. The most trusted ball in golf have not lift a trophy in 5 weeks.

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UPDATED:

Safeway open- Kevin Tway Pro V1

Cimb classic- Mark leishmania Chrome soft

CJ cup-Brooks Koepka Pro V1

Wgc-hsbc championship- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sanderson farms- Cameron Champ Srixon Z star

Shriners- Bryson Dechambeau Bridgestone BX

OHL classic- Matt Kuchar Bridgestone BX

RSM classic- Charles Howell III Pro V1

Hero world challenge- John Rahm TP5

Tournament of champions- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sony Open- Matt Kuchar bridgestone BX

Career builder challenge- A. Long Pro V1

Farmers insurance- Justin Rose Tp5

Phoenix open- Ricky FowlerTP5

Attached pebble beach- Phil Mickelson chrome soft

Genesis Open- J B Holmes Srixon Z Star.

Puerto Rico Open- Martin Trainer Srixon Z Star

WGC-Mexico- Dustin Johnson TP5

 

Titliest-4

Callaway-4

Taylormade-4

Bridgestone-3

Srixon-3

 

For all those trying to discredit Choo, I have been on point every prediction. The most trusted ball in golf have not lift a trophy in 5 weeks.

 

It's not just that a Titleist ball player hasn't won in 5 weeks, but the high number of pro's that play Titleist which puts the odds in their favor. Seems the other manufacturers have signed up the hot players.

Driver - Home Callaway MAVRIK / G400 MAX
Woods - XXIO 10 3W
Hybrids - XXIO 10 3H, 4H, 5H
Irons - Home - PXG Gen 2 0311P 5-SW   Away - Callaway Epic Forged 5-SW
Wedge - Callaway MD5 JAWS X Grind 60* 
Putter - Odyssey Triple Track 7
Ball - TM TP5X, TM Tour Response

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UPDATED:

Safeway open- Kevin Tway Pro V1

Cimb classic- Mark leishmania Chrome soft

CJ cup-Brooks Koepka Pro V1

Wgc-hsbc championship- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sanderson farms- Cameron Champ Srixon Z star

Shriners- Bryson Dechambeau Bridgestone BX

OHL classic- Matt Kuchar Bridgestone BX

RSM classic- Charles Howell III Pro V1

Hero world challenge- John Rahm TP5

Tournament of champions- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sony Open- Matt Kuchar bridgestone BX

Career builder challenge- A. Long Pro V1

Farmers insurance- Justin Rose Tp5

Phoenix open- Ricky FowlerTP5

Attached pebble beach- Phil Mickelson chrome soft

Genesis Open- J B Holmes Srixon Z Star.

Puerto Rico Open- Martin Trainer Srixon Z Star

WGC-Mexico- Dustin Johnson TP5

 

Titliest-4

Callaway-4

Taylormade-4

Bridgestone-3

Srixon-3

 

For all those trying to discredit Choo, I have been on point every prediction. The most trusted ball in golf have not lift a trophy in 5 weeks.

 

It's not just that a Titleist ball player hasn't won in 5 weeks, but the high number of pro's that play Titleist which puts the odds in their favor. Seems the other manufacturers have signed up the hot players.

 

Wonder how these numbers would stack up if you looked at the Euro PGA Tour and LPGA Tour.

Callaway Mavrik 9° driver Tensei Pro White 50 S Flex

Callaway Mavrik 15° fairway wood Tensei Pro Blue 60 S Flex

Callaway Mavrik 20° and 23° hybrids MMT 90 S Flex

Mizuno JPX 921 Forged 4-PW & GW Modus3 Tour 120 S flex

Mizuno T20 Raw Wedges 50-07 Modus3 Tour 120 S flex, 55-13 and 60-06 Modus3 125 Wedge

Odyssey RSX Milled V-Line Fang 

Callaway Chrome Soft Triple Track

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The problem with this type of "analysis" is you aren't accounting for selection bias from the ball makers. Titleist may spread their money out amongst more players, but among the top 10-20 guys I would imagine the ball brands are more evenly distributed. The best method would be to find players who changed brands and see how their performance and stats changed. Still, kind of interesting to see.

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