El Tucan Speaks..... (NO POLITICS)

[Under2hours]

Another interesting note is thinking back to those Kuch defenders saying he would have been $3,000 out of pocket if he didn't make the cut...... It was actually $1,000.....

 

Let me tell you something, if I was going to play Mayakoba, I'd be be $1,000 out of pocket paying for 2 days green fees & a Caddie too.

 

Again call a spade a spade..... This does not happen if it was a $7,200,000 tour event in the US.

[Konklifer]

Kuchar's latest statement certainly doesn't make him look good, but for the caddy to feel underpaid after he agreed to an amount is b.s. If Kuchar missed the cut, would this be a story?

[sfiggins]

Tightwads always think they are generous.

 

And the people who the general public think are "tightwads" often have donated more money to charity and have given more money away than you'd ever see in your lifetime.

 

Foundations pro athletes set up are often fronts for a means to give family members $$$. Charitable donations are also tax deductions.

[deadsolid...shank]

Another interesting note is thinking back to those Kuch defenders saying he would have been $3,000 out of pocket if he didn't make the cut...... It was actually $1,000.....

 

Let me tell you something, if I was going to play Mayakoba, I'd be be $1,000 out of pocket paying for 2 days green fees & a Caddie too.

 

Again call a spade a spade..... This does not happen if it was a 3,000,000 tour event in the US.

 

No,it wasn’t. If he didn’t make the cut the pay was $3,000. How much more black and white can it get. The bonus added the possibility of the pay going up to $4,000.

[rightslice]

Man, you'd think Steinberg would be aloooot better at PRing this thing. What a cluster. I'm of the opinion Call El Tucan whatever you'd like, Resort Caddie, No a regular PGA looper, etc. He did provide the vibe for Kuch to win his first tourney in years, To me that's priceless. He's probably got hacks down shooting the best scores of their lives. It really doesn't matter to me if Kuch asked for yardages and El Tucan Replied "no Copmprede" He got stiffed and this damage control is a joke. I'm really starting to not like Kuch. Alright, it's his money etc. but his pathetic attempt now to hold on to it is really distasteful. It's gonna cost him much more in the long run.

[deadsolid...shank]

Tightwads always think they are generous.

 

And the people who the general public think are "tightwads" often have donated more money to charity and have given more money away than you'd ever see in your lifetime.

 

Foundations pro athletes set up are often fronts for a means to give family members $$$. Charitable donations are also tax deductions.

 

Go ahead and say that about Tiger’s foundation. I double dog dare you!

[Komarms]

"5k is a good week" is an idiotic thing to say. My god Matt.

 

I'd take 5k for 4-6 days of work!

The public sentiment is that Kuchar did Tucan wrong, and Matt saying 5k is a good week for a guy who normally makes $200 is so out of touch. Kuchar seeems to have no idea how the public is viewing this situation.

 

The comments by Kuchar dont come off well, but I totally understand what he was trying to say, and I think most other rational people do too.

 

I think what this situation is highlighting is the fact that this country has become obsessed with other people's business, especially financial. From what someone else makes compared to you, to what someone else has more than you, etc. We've become a society where everyone is more focused on what everyone else has/does rather than just focusing on themselves. And one thing for sure we as a society have become really good at is spending other people's money.

 

This caddie was paid an agreed amount to do a job. The job was completed. He was paid. The amount he was paid is irrelevant. The amount of money his employer made from the job is irrelevant. As Ive said many times, it was a business transaction done between two adults. Something that happens millions of times every day across the world. Anyone in the business world understands this.

 

Now, does Kuchar come off as "cheap" or "tight" or whatever adjective you want to use? I suppose. But its his money. Money he earned. As long as he fulfilled his agreement with the man he employed, its none of our business how Matt Kuchar spends his money. And I doubt he cares what anyone else thinks. And his comments about someone making $5K being a good week for someone who makes $200 a day is actually on point....he just said it the wrong way We as a society have completely gone off the rails from being grateful for what we have, and instead have turned into a society where its now a bad thing to make a lot of money, because you've must have screwed someone over to get it.

 

If a professional golfer came to a club I worked at and offered me $5K in cash, no strings attached and no matter where he finished, to carry his bag for 4 rounds and offer some insights to the course that he may not otherwise know, I would have jumped at the chance, and I bet most everyone else here would have done the same.

 

Honestly I think all of this is irrelevant to the main issue. The fact is, how many times are we ever going to see a local caddy in a final pairing on Sunday let alone in the winners circle. Kuch had a major opportunity here to do something pretty cool for the entire golf community. We all know if somehow Phil was in this same position he would have paid the guy at least 50k and probably 100k but that’s beside the point. It’s a situation that might never occur again and I really think he dropped the ball. Who cares about the prior agreement and all the other stuff that has come about. Bottom line is the opportunity was there and he didn’t even recognize it which really says a lot about Matt as a person. It’s a win win win for him. First of all your caddy isn’t there so you don’t have to pay the 130k fee/all the other fees that comes with your caddy that week (hotel, food etc). He pays this guy 50k and he’s still up 80k on what he would have had to pay his normal caddy. Just simple things like this don’t make sense to me. Kuch does a lot of things to come across as a nice guy, which I’m sure he is but in this case he really had the chance to gather an even larger fan base but he probably turned that into the opposite. Also for people saying this guy won’t get a bag next year, lol to that. Tour players will ask for this guy just to spite Kuch. Could imagine someone missing the cut and paying the guy 5k just as a joke.

[Matt97GT]

"5k is a good week" is an idiotic thing to say. My god Matt.

 

I'd take 5k for 4-6 days of work!

The public sentiment is that Kuchar did Tucan wrong, and Matt saying 5k is a good week for a guy who normally makes $200 is so out of touch. Kuchar seeems to have no idea how the public is viewing this situation.

 

The comments by Kuchar dont come off well, but I totally understand what he was trying to say, and I think most other rational people do too.

 

I think what this situation is highlighting is the fact that this country has become obsessed with other people's business, especially financial. From what someone else makes compared to you, to what someone else has more than you, etc. We've become a society where everyone is more focused on what everyone else has/does rather than just focusing on themselves. And one thing for sure we as a society have become really good at is spending other people's money.

 

This caddie was paid an agreed amount to do a job. The job was completed. He was paid. The amount he was paid is irrelevant. The amount of money his employer made from the job is irrelevant. As Ive said many times, it was a business transaction done between two adults. Something that happens millions of times every day across the world. Anyone in the business world understands this.

 

Now, does Kuchar come off as "cheap" or "tight" or whatever adjective you want to use? I suppose. But its his money. Money he earned. As long as he fulfilled his agreement with the man he employed, its none of our business how Matt Kuchar spends his money. And I doubt he cares what anyone else thinks. And his comments about someone making $5K being a good week for someone who makes $200 a day is actually on point....he just said it the wrong way We as a society have completely gone off the rails from being grateful for what we have, and instead have turned into a society where its now a bad thing to make a lot of money, because you've must have screwed someone over to get it.

 

If a professional golfer came to a club I worked at and offered me $5K in cash, no strings attached and no matter where he finished, to carry his bag for 4 rounds and offer some insights to the course that he may not otherwise know, I would have jumped at the chance, and I bet most everyone else here would have done the same.

 

 

A millionaire used leverage to secure work at a rate seriously under market value.

 

He's a professional athlete in a global entertainment game/industry.

 

He had the opportunity to do something grand and create an awesome PR story to help the game of golf. A feel good story that fights the recent growing anger towards ultra wealthy in this country.

 

We're only talking a fraction of the money he would have otherwise paid if he had his regular caddie on the bag. He chose to pocket it all instead. It's his choice to live with, but the court of public opinion is going to be very unkind, and will probably cost him way more in potential sponsorship money too. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I think it was a bad move as an ambassador of the game of a golf.

[Hawkeye77]

Based on what has been available for public consumption to date, with about the only agreed upon "fact" being the $5,000 in the envelope(that's how I paid my caddie after money games, and the Field Club said that they prefer that I not use an envelope with a "PFC" logo on it, hahaha. I guess they felt it unseemly, lolol), even though I think that Kuchar's actions were a disgrace and the minimum that he should've given in a precedent setting action should have been $50,000, I do believe his rendition of events versus El WhateverTF his name is. I just think that too many peeps have gotten to him, as Kuchar notes,

and he's already got a few different stories out there.

 

This is some nice work by Ben~

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/

 

Have a Great Valentines Day Gals & Gents❤️

RP

 

I agree, Ben probably has the most factual, least slanted take of any article so far (maybe that's why it's so brief, lol).

 

I have no idea about the $50,000 figure, really don't. I think if Kuch had given the guy $15k over the $5k at the time or shortly thereafter there may not have been a story that lasted very long, if it even got out there. Is that "fair", I don't know. Again, part of it was a "journalist" in particular rushing to print an article about how the caddie was in line for 10% and telling the caddie he "should" be in line for 10% without doing what journalists should do - check a few facts. Then Gillis thinking he's the Almighty's conscience on earth, or at least on Twitter, and Mr. Plaid Shorts with his campaign, his "help" and flat out begging on Twitter for various golf news outlets to contact him (you get a pretty good idea of this guy just reading a lot of what he puts out there).

 

Someone wants to call Kuch "cheap" because he didn't pay what they think they may have paid - I get that, but once it gets into the "should have" you have our threads, lol.

 

I have no doubt most on here would say or have said they would have paid more (easy to say with someone else's money, but I believe they would have - I know I would have). But I don't think what I would have done vs. what Kuch did gives me the higher moral ground, just can't see that. To me, that's where a lot of it gets off the rails and I think there is quite a bit of agreement there, and it gets mischaracterized because for some its either "Kuch sucks" or "you suck because you won't say Kuch sucks", lol.

 

Heck, we've got one person on here now saying the people that support Tucan are well-intentioned, but nevertheless they are actual racists - WTF! If I had a nickel for every time Kuch as been called a "POS", lol.

 

Anyway, enjoying the rational takes (including yours) and enjoying the irrational ones - Tiger needs to tee off and get this site back to it's main order of business - talking about everything Tiger! (Sarcasm folks).

[Jagpilotohio]

Better to keep mouth shut and have people think your CHEAP rather than Open it and remove all doubt. :D

 

 

Soooooo correct.

 

He thought “explaining himself” would smooth things over?!? LOLOLOLOL!!! ; )

[lowheel]

It really sounds to me there was a bonus structure agreed to that probably ended with "and if I finish top 10, I will throw you another $1,000. It probably didn't go any further than that...nothing about top 5 and obviously nothing about a specific percentage of the winners check. Tucan probably thought at the time....sure, extra G for top 10 sounds good to me.

 

Then when Tucan saw the winners check, he probably figured -- Man, Kuch has to give e a little bonus based off cashing in on $1.3 mil. Tucan opens envelope and its an extra G on top of the agreed amount. Tucan prob thinks...well, he will probably send me more later with a big thank you basket. Kuch thinks...5,000 is a good payday for the little guy (kuch even says this now in the Golfchannel story). Tucan stews and stews, nothing ever comes. Stories in Nov. about a payday. More stewing and it finally hits social media and boom -- parties dig in and we have a media firestorm.

 

No, Kuchar took advantage of the guy.

 

No he really didn't.

 

Yes, he really did.

 

I don't think Kuchar is going to have any fun in Mexico next week.

 

Why? because some people on twitter want to form a social justice mob? its real life, he'll be just fine playing golf for alot of money while keyboard warriors fume that he wont succumb to their demands.

[Komarms]

Another interesting note is thinking back to those Kuch defenders saying he would have been $3,000 out of pocket if he didn't make the cut...... It was actually $1,000.....

 

Let me tell you something, if I was going to play Mayakoba, I'd be be $1,000 out of pocket paying for 2 days green fees & a Caddie too.

 

Again call a spade a spade..... This does not happen if it was a 3,000,000 tour event in the US.

 

No,it wasn’t. If he didn’t make the cut the pay was $3,000. How much more black and white can it get. The bonus added the possibility of the pay going up to $4,000.

 

It literally says $1000 for an MC right in the article.

[Komarms]

"5k is a good week" is an idiotic thing to say. My god Matt.

 

I'd take 5k for 4-6 days of work!

The public sentiment is that Kuchar did Tucan wrong, and Matt saying 5k is a good week for a guy who normally makes $200 is so out of touch. Kuchar seeems to have no idea how the public is viewing this situation.

 

The comments by Kuchar dont come off well, but I totally understand what he was trying to say, and I think most other rational people do too.

 

I think what this situation is highlighting is the fact that this country has become obsessed with other people's business, especially financial. From what someone else makes compared to you, to what someone else has more than you, etc. We've become a society where everyone is more focused on what everyone else has/does rather than just focusing on themselves. And one thing for sure we as a society have become really good at is spending other people's money.

 

This caddie was paid an agreed amount to do a job. The job was completed. He was paid. The amount he was paid is irrelevant. The amount of money his employer made from the job is irrelevant. As Ive said many times, it was a business transaction done between two adults. Something that happens millions of times every day across the world. Anyone in the business world understands this.

 

Now, does Kuchar come off as "cheap" or "tight" or whatever adjective you want to use? I suppose. But its his money. Money he earned. As long as he fulfilled his agreement with the man he employed, its none of our business how Matt Kuchar spends his money. And I doubt he cares what anyone else thinks. And his comments about someone making $5K being a good week for someone who makes $200 a day is actually on point....he just said it the wrong way We as a society have completely gone off the rails from being grateful for what we have, and instead have turned into a society where its now a bad thing to make a lot of money, because you've must have screwed someone over to get it.

 

If a professional golfer came to a club I worked at and offered me $5K in cash, no strings attached and no matter where he finished, to carry his bag for 4 rounds and offer some insights to the course that he may not otherwise know, I would have jumped at the chance, and I bet most everyone else here would have done the same.

 

 

A millionaire used leverage to secure work at a rate seriously under market value.

 

He's a professional athlete in a global entertainment game/industry.

 

He had the opportunity to do something grand and create an awesome PR story to help the game of golf. A feel good story that fights the recent growing anger towards ultra wealthy in this country.

 

We're only talking a fraction of the money he would have otherwise paid if he had his regular caddie on the bag. He chose to pocket it all instead. It's his choice to live with, but the court of public opinion is going to be very unkind, and will probably cost him way more in potential sponsorship money too. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I think it was a bad move as an ambassador of the game of a golf.

 

This is exactly what I’m talking about.

[RSinSG]

It’s funny that the Tucan camp keeps predicting Kuchar is going to be a pariah everywhere he goes and anything he endorses is going to tank because “everyone” is outraged when probably 1/3 of those posting on a hardcore golf forum don’t share their outrage. I predict this will soon be forgotten by the casual golfer and general public in short order.

 

Man, some of you guys need to get out and play some golf. This thread would be much smaller if the weather was good.

[SMcGavin1]

Just picked up some Skechers shoes, damn they are comfy.

 

Funny, I heard they were a little tight.

 

Tightest on tour.

 

But you can't return them because "WE HAD AN AGREEMENT!!!!"

 

Well, that makes zero sense, because part of the initial purchase agreement is that you can in fact return them.

 

Nope, apparently you cannot, not if you are a Mexican caddy who can't speak English. You should be grateful for your Sketchers, and it is an outrage you would even think of asking to return them. WE'RE RUNNING A BUSINESS HERE, NOT A CHARITY

[Konklifer]

I believe this is the definitive debate:

 

[Hawkeye77]

Tightwads always think they are generous.

 

And the people who the general public think are "tightwads" often have donated more money to charity and have given more money away than you'd ever see in your lifetime.

 

Foundations pro athletes set up are often fronts for a means to give family members $$$. Charitable donations are also tax deductions.

 

Go ahead and say that about Tiger’s foundation. I double dog dare you!

 

LOL, love to see the proof of legitimate charitable foundations given that status by the IRS being used as fronts "often" - love to see the frequency and reality of that accusation.

 

And so what if charitable donations are tax deductions, that really means nothing at all. In the end, the charitable organization gets FULL use of the money, which is the point, and yes the tax deductibility is the incentive and billions of dollars of charitable donations happen because of it.

 

I know you get it, just can't get over what some folks will say, lol.

[Under2hours]

From the golf.com article here is the most crazy thing I see in the article ...

 

"Kuchar seemed slightly embarrassed that the additional sum had been offered, as he felt his financial obligation to Ortiz was complete. Asked how it came to be that the additional sum was offered, Kuchar said, “That was the agency.” He was referring to Excel Sports Management, which represents him. Kuchar’s agent there is Mark Steinberg, who also represents Tiger Woods and Justin Rose.

Kuchar was asked who would actually pay the money.

 

Kuchar smiled and said, “It’s not coming out of Steinberg’s pocket.” In other words, Kuchar would be paying. He said the additional proffered payment was Steinberg’s effort at damage control."

 

 

 

So the way I read this is that basically Kuchar is coming out and saying... I personally never would have offered the caddie one more single nickel... that was just my peeps trying to do damage control.

 

If nothing else in this whole mess makes him look cheap, to me that certainly does.

 

Incredible how few people seemed to have read the article and not see that.

 

Same with the following:

 

$1,000 if Kuchar missed the cut, $2,000 if he made the cut, $3,000 if he had a top-20 and $4,000 if he had a top-10.

 

 

So really the $3,000 was a top 20. He offered the guy $500/day to carry his bag.

[DLBTide7]

I love reading everyone’s comments on the El Tucan/Kuch “controversy”. Great points from both sides of the debate.

 

Dpavs summarized it perfectly, IMO. Kuch has a certain persona in the golf world...smiling, happy and is a fan favorite. An endorser’s dream. That Steinberg stepped in and tried to limit the short term reputational damage speaks volumes.

 

 

 

 

 

[josepht1010]

kuchar should have headed this off with the 50000.00 payment as soon as the press got wind of this. This hasn't even made main stream media. Just as soon as it does this is going to go SOUTH really fast for kuchar. Public opinion will drop just as soon as MSM catches this. Would have gone away a month ago when story broke if he had have just paid up. Now I think the press will put him in an unusual spot for a golfer. Especially with it being a minority case. Good luck.

[lowheel]

Tightwads always think they are generous.

 

And the people who the general public think are "tightwads" often have donated more money to charity and have given more money away than you'd ever see in your lifetime.

 

Foundations pro athletes set up are often fronts for a means to give family members $$$. Charitable donations are also tax deductions.

 

Go ahead and say that about Tiger’s foundation. I double dog dare you!

 

You read my mind... he wont though

[Hawkeye77]

I believe this is the definitive debate:

 

 

+100 for anything Mr. Pink!

[Man_O_War]

kuchar should have headed this off with the 50000.00 payment as soon as the press got wind of this. This hasn't even made main stream media. Just as soon as it does this is going to go SOUTH really fast for kuchar. Public opinion will drop just as soon as MSM catches this. Would have gone away a month ago when story broke if he had have just paid up. Now I think the press will put him in an unusual spot for a golfer. Especially with it being a minority case. Good luck.

 

sadly, Kuchar like many, he doesn't even get it.

[deadsolid...shank]

"5k is a good week" is an idiotic thing to say. My god Matt.

 

I'd take 5k for 4-6 days of work!

The public sentiment is that Kuchar did Tucan wrong, and Matt saying 5k is a good week for a guy who normally makes $200 is so out of touch. Kuchar seeems to have no idea how the public is viewing this situation.

 

The comments by Kuchar dont come off well, but I totally understand what he was trying to say, and I think most other rational people do too.

 

I think what this situation is highlighting is the fact that this country has become obsessed with other people's business, especially financial. From what someone else makes compared to you, to what someone else has more than you, etc. We've become a society where everyone is more focused on what everyone else has/does rather than just focusing on themselves. And one thing for sure we as a society have become really good at is spending other people's money.

 

This caddie was paid an agreed amount to do a job. The job was completed. He was paid. The amount he was paid is irrelevant. The amount of money his employer made from the job is irrelevant. As Ive said many times, it was a business transaction done between two adults. Something that happens millions of times every day across the world. Anyone in the business world understands this.

 

Now, does Kuchar come off as "cheap" or "tight" or whatever adjective you want to use? I suppose. But its his money. Money he earned. As long as he fulfilled his agreement with the man he employed, its none of our business how Matt Kuchar spends his money. And I doubt he cares what anyone else thinks. And his comments about someone making $5K being a good week for someone who makes $200 a day is actually on point....he just said it the wrong way We as a society have completely gone off the rails from being grateful for what we have, and instead have turned into a society where its now a bad thing to make a lot of money, because you've must have screwed someone over to get it.

 

If a professional golfer came to a club I worked at and offered me $5K in cash, no strings attached and no matter where he finished, to carry his bag for 4 rounds and offer some insights to the course that he may not otherwise know, I would have jumped at the chance, and I bet most everyone else here would have done the same.

 

 

A millionaire used leverage to secure work at a rate seriously under market value.

 

He's a professional athlete in a global entertainment game/industry.

 

He had the opportunity to do something grand and create an awesome PR story to help the game of golf. A feel good story that fights the recent growing anger towards ultra wealthy in this country.

 

We're only talking a fraction of the money he would have otherwise paid if he had his regular caddie on the bag. He chose to pocket it all instead. It's his choice to live with, but the court of public opinion is going to be very unkind, and will probably cost him way more in potential sponsorship money too. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I think it was a bad move as an ambassador of the game of a golf.

 

Why do so many people think it was his responsibility to “do something grand” or something of the sort? That really sums up our world today, if someone else has it, then they should happily give it someone who doesn’t. If he wants to do so fine, but it’s his call.

 

Does anyone take responsibility for themselves anymore?

[lowheel]

I'm glad Kuchar is not caving to a bunch of social media warriors. There used to be a time when a agreement between two people was private and those involved honored that agreement. The way deals should be.

 

I get no pleasure from seeing a worker get stiffed regardless of where the story got traction.

 

Deals should be done with contracts when it involves that scale of money but seems like (some) PGA Tour players want their cake and to eat it too.

 

There's a big difference between a resort caddy and a Tour caddy. The dude could have said No Thanks to Kuchar.

 

 

So it's OK to stiff a resort caddy because he's not part of the PGA Tour clique, thats fair.

Did he not get paid? In my world if you stiff someone you don't pay them anything.

 

Thats because youre a grown man with reasoning and logic.It used to be standard but alas..

[Hawkeye77]

kuchar should have headed this off with the 50000.00 payment as soon as the press got wind of this. This hasn't even made main stream media. Just as soon as it does this is going to go SOUTH really fast for kuchar. Public opinion will drop just as soon as MSM catches this. Would have gone away a month ago when story broke if he had have just paid up. Now I think the press will put him in an unusual spot for a golfer. Especially with it being a minority case. Good luck.

 

MSN mainstream? LOL. Anyway, "mainstream" media reported it a month ago and nobody cared and they won't care this time, for whatever someone thinks is better or whatever someone thinks is worse. You think all those "mainstream" reporters aren't glued to the internet looking for clickbait? Bigger and real problems out there for real reporters to work on and that billions of people in the world care about (those mainstream organizations still have to sell ads and get clicks, and likes and shares).

[Forged4ever]

Yes, it sounds as though "legally(I friggin love that now we got 100+ attorneys in the herd??)," Kuchar May have covered his arse, substitute YOUR name for Matt Kuchar.

 

Knowing that this was a precedent setting situation, and knowing how Kucher handled it, would you want YOUR name substituted for Kuchar's at this moment, with the game over and the results in??

 

Even knowing that you "held up your end," would you want you name associated with this amateur hour cluster f*** when in the future this occurs and people look back, dredge this up and your name has basically become a verb as in, "whatever ya pay him, just make sure that ya don't KUCH him???"

 

However, legally, you're good????!!!!

 

Stay well my Friends?

RP

 

I appreciate your opinion.

 

However, the flip side to this thinking is simple.

 

Regardless of the amount the Kuchar pays right now...someone will be dissatisfied with the amount. Someone will deem the amount as being "not fair".

 

So, if Kuchar (or whomever else is in this type of situation) caters to the public outcry and mob mentality to get their way (while ignoring all prior Agreements)...where does it end?

 

You folks don't have to agree with it...but...by standing firm and adhering to the pre-negotiated Agreement...Kuchar thwarts additional people coming at him with their hand(s) out...hopeful that the same public outcry will help open Kuchar's wallet for their own benefit.

 

Should the Caddie have been paid more? Maybe. But, that was the whole point of the Agreement prior to Kuchar's first tee shot. The fact that Kuchar hadn't won in several years likely played into the amount he was willing to offer in that upfront arrangement.

 

The fact that Kuchar won has zero bearing on what was agreed to beforehand.

I understand that one will never please everyone regardless of what they do or how they do it.

 

That is why my Mentors impressed upon me that there is only ONE moral/ethical scoreboard that I should look at care about or come out the victor on, and that is MINE!!

 

I’ve already stated what I’ve done in real life situations where I won over a thousand dollars and I have ALWAYS adhered to these parameters regarding the guy on my bag.

 

Regarding this situation, I can say unequivocally, unarguably and no doubt about it, my caddie is gettin 10% of my check.

 

However, I understand that not all agree with that and even the majority who believe that Kuchar screwed the guy do not believe that he deserved 10% of the winnings.

 

In fact, Maddie is one of them, as she thinks the fair amount would have been $50,000-60,000(5%).

 

That’s fine too.

 

I say that I march to my own compass however a quick story and while this amount is laughable compared to Kuchar’s, it is more than 99%+ of the Ams readin this have or will EVER Play for or win/lose in an amateur money game.

 

Back in the late 80’s-early 90’s, my former BB Partner, who I’ve spoken of previously and is one of only two Players that Sam Snead ever staked his personal dollars on for a run at the Tour, and I used to travel for money games set up by “money guys,” for lack of a better definition, lolol. So we’re in northern WVa(Weirton) at a a place called Williams CC and long story short, we won $30k and change, with half going to us to split and the other half to the “money man,” lol.

 

I got like $7500+ from my half and I had from day one given 10% in any money game but in my mind, by myself, I’m lookin at and debating giving my caddie basically almost a month’s rent at that time and he’s not near me and doesn’t really know what we won or our arrangement. Our arrangement with the caddies was a Benjamin for the day which was over twice what they’d get carryin at the club for a member.

 

So I’m thinkin if I give him another hundred, this kid from Weirton, WV is gonna think I’m a god, tipping basically what I paid him to carry.

 

I’ll tell ya that I was leaning that way~

 

Then into my head pops my Grandmother’s voice”~

 

“The only individual that you answer to is the man in the mirror”

 

No obviously, throughout life there are more individuals that someone will or should answer to, however I always have done what allowed me to look in the mirror and win, lose or draw, know that I could look at myself and say “well Played.”

 

Again, that was hard as hell and I went back and forth.

 

I gave the guy $760+.

 

My partner, who’s family was a multi-millionaire “old school” family in town, gave his guy $350, which he was elated by.

 

I did not judge Chucky cuz $350 was a nice day anyway ya cut it but I had ALWAYS given 10% and if left to my own devices I would’ve given less that day, no doubt.

 

That’s why I thank God every night for my Grandmother, Pete & Madison, cuz if not for them, hell, my name would be a negative verb??

 

So I’m good with those that would’ve given much less than 10%, and I understand that the amount given would not satisfy everyone, regardless of the amount and even to the point that if it were what I would’ve given(10%), guys would be chirpin that I gave tooooo much, however I just think what Kuchar gave is a disgrace.

 

As always, just my .03 worth ?

 

Have a Great day JJ?

RP

[t4t3r]

Kuchar confirmed chump status with his comments. It's tough to make yourself look that much worse in this situation, and he knocked that one out of the park. I have to question that Kuchar & Co DID actually offer the extra 15k as there were reports that it was actually from the tournament guy as someone here posted many, many pages ago.

 

Luckily Kuchar is paying God knows how much to Steiny for what amounts to PR suicide, and pays Tuc 5k for a windfall of 1.29 million. Sounds right.

[lowheel]

kuchar should have headed this off with the 50000.00 payment as soon as the press got wind of this. This hasn't even made main stream media. Just as soon as it does this is going to go SOUTH really fast for kuchar. Public opinion will drop just as soon as MSM catches this. Would have gone away a month ago when story broke if he had have just paid up. Now I think the press will put him in an unusual spot for a golfer. Especially with it being a minority case. Good luck.

 

"do as we say or else"

[stanger37]

Now that both sides have "weighed in", here is my fill in the blanks version of the discord.

 

The local caddie was fine with a $3000 base salary, for what he is generally paid $200/day that entails a "generous tip". I'm sure he gets stiffed by cheap resort guests occasionally and that is $100 or even less some days. So guaranteed $3000 was a good week in his eyes for a day or 2 of practice round/Pro Am and then 2 OR 4 days of tournament play. I'm sure a resort caddie in Mex or any other foreign land, isn't knowledgeable on what the Tour "standards" are for caddie pay and the accompanying "bonus structure" for cuts made, top 10's, 5's and wins. Just like if any of us asked a non-golfer in our household, business or the local bar...they also would have no clue. So I'm sure when Matt said, hey if I get a top 10, I will throw in another $1000, this also sounded great and was agreed too....Again with no knowledge base of Tour norms, so no hey, these other guys out here would be getting 5% of the pro's paycheck for that top 10 so maybe I should speak up now.

 

Now I'm not defending Matt here, but I'm sure if any of us were in a multi yr victory drought and in process of hiring a local caddie for the week(low expectation for myself), I'm pretty sure WINNING this week wasn"t even in the thought process in his mind, much less, let me cover this scenario with this guy.

 

So we have the perfect storm of, local guy agrees to a deal that is pretty good(for him) for the week....more pay than normal, thrill/honor of being involved in a Tour event and the added honor of being on the bag for an established "star" not just some Gillis journeyman. Matt has a relaxed week plan, low expectations, and a deal in place for a guy to carry my bag, clean the clubs, and prob just "stay out of the way." I don't mean that in a derogatory manner, but I'm sure he could have hired any number of established Tour caddies to fill in that week... but he was gpingat a resort, event isn't very high on importance being a Fall event in season...so I'm sure it was more of the mindset of hey, this is a relaxed working vacation...and golly gee, what happens...WE WON

 

I posted this on the other thread and I'll go shorter this time around. I don't want to victim center blame, nor necessarily defend Kuch for what appears to be, being a little more than a little cheap. But this is the problem with being privy to the amount of money exchanged that we don't deserve to know. That is private, between them. It appears Kuch offered $15k and it was turned down because El Tucan expected $50k. I have been on the support team of outside sales reps and helped them achieve their yearly budgets which meant they earned their bonuses, anywhere from $5,000-$7,000. It isn't my business to know how much their bonuses are but I knew, so I expected a certain amount when it came to their bonus time. And when I was given a fraction of what I THOUGHT I deserved, I was extremely ungrateful. That is the problem with assuming just because someone else made money, you are entitled to a certain amount of it. Fact is, you are not entitled to any certain amount. I get that it seems like an industry standard and we can hate on Kuch for it, but we don't know how going on a few years of not winning on tour has affected him financially. And it isn't our business to know, but we all assume he is very well off because he has been a pro on tour for a few decades now.