i hope this is the place...

[Sourpuss]

first off i do not want to make this a racially charged subject but with all the talk at the genesis open about charlie sifford and cameron champ and tiger woods and the exemption they received is awesome but the basis that they are of color also means a lot to me. to make a long story short for the last 2 years i have been the guest of several friends at a country club in my area, these are friends i have known for years. when we play i always treat when when we play public courses and they have always treated when we play their clubs, it's really the best of both worlds. i would also like to say that at the CC i have taken at least 2-5 lessons a month from the pro's and built up a great rep-or with them but last week i had a disturbing situation happen to me. as i was sitting in the parking lot waiting for my friend who invited me too breakfast at one of the CC i was approached by a security guard who asked me if i was a member, to which i said no, i was waiting for a friend who invited me up there. he then repeatedly asked me for my friends name, repeatably 5x's and said that he was called my multiple members at the club who were concerned about their safety because of me. now i did not take any offense as i am not a member and wanted to conduct myself with the utmost respect as to honor my friends at the club so i left. later i was then called by the GM to which he said that i was not allowed into the club again, period. in a sense i was racially profiled, which i understand because i am of color and big. anyways i was deeply hurt by this and can only say i am happy that my son will not have the issues that i have had in my life. so long story short, i am a tiger fan and a champ fan but really appreciate what charlie sifford has done and is doing for this sport i love.....

[ChillyDipper]

Firstly, and less seriously, I did not know that Cameron Champ was a person of colour. Doesn't really mean much either, but that's cool.

 

More importantly, I'm sorry to hear about your experience and that you were treated in that way. I'm sure there are many clubs who would have handled that - and I hesitate to use this word - situation better, but it seems you received the short end of the stick. I like to think that golf is a sport for the masses, but there are elements of society that do not see it that way. I won't apologize for them (because I don't like them and they are not worth it), but here we are in 21st Century America.

I hope you are okay, OP, and that you find a more welcoming place to play soon.

[Konklifer]

Should probably go here: http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/forum/270-the-cooler-heated-topics/

[titleistprov1man]

"Shift" key is your friend. Quick question. Why would you not just provide your friends name when asked the first time, before they had to ask five more times? I am a member of a private club, and if any person of any size, race, gender, age, etc. is hanging around, I would hope the staff would ask. If you refuse to tell them who you are with, I would expect them to ask you to leave. Also, if the GM called you personally to tell you that you were not welcome back, how did he have your contact info if they didn't know who you were?

[Lagavulin62]

It’s hard to believe in this day and time that is what you are faced with. I know it’s not any consolation but I believe there are big issues with Country Clubs that go beyond racial discrimination. I would never join one, although maybe a small golf club if I ever started playing consistently again.

 

It is amazing what guys like CS were willing to put up with. Last week we read a few stories of Jackie Robinson. I can tell you I don’t think I could have had his strength to put up with what he faced. It does make you stop and think of the selfless committment they made to create what we have today. You are a better man for handling it the way you did.

[Lagavulin62]

"Shift" key is your friend. Quick question. Why would you not just provide your friends name when asked the first time, before they had to ask five more times? I am a member of a private club, and if any person of any size, race, gender, age, etc. is hanging around, I would hope the staff would ask. If you refuse to tell them who you are with, I would expect them to ask you to leave. Also, if the GM called you personally to tell you that you were not welcome back, how did he have your contact info if they didn't know who you were?

 

 

 

Cant speak for the OP but going to guess they probably knew him from his friend. And that probably included the security guard. So if a security guard who knew you and your business, and who you were here to see. If this person asked your name and who you were here to see, how would you respond?

 

We don’t know what the truth is. But why do you assume your answer over other possibilities? I will admit I know nothing of the OP. Maybe there is more to it?

[golfgirlrobin]

I had kind of a mixed reaction to your story. On the one hand, I hate that people of color still deal with situations like this, and on the other hand I feel like something is missing from the story. A person dressed appropriately for a country club round of golf isn’t generally going to be seen as a physical threat, even by the most bigoted of people. Certainly not multiple people calling security. Honestly, I kind of wonder if the call from the GM was more about some members thinking that you’re abusing the guest policy. Where I’ve been a member, a guy who plays a lot and takes lessons at the club but doesn’t join would be looked at with something less than a welcoming attitude by the folks who actually ponied up.

 

Regardless, agree completely with you on the efforts made by guys breaking the color barrier in golf and other “country club” sports. The women, too, who are still fighting for the right to full memberships and access to tee times at clubs that integrated decades ago.

[deadsolid...shank]

Touchy subject. An one that just shouldn’t occur, but the fact of the matter is, it still does.

 

My question, why not allowed to play there anymore. What happened to bring that about?

[Sourpuss]

"Shift" key is your friend. Quick question. Why would you not just provide your friends name when asked the first time, before they had to ask five more times? I am a member of a private club, and if any person of any size, race, gender, age, etc. is hanging around, I would hope the staff would ask. If you refuse to tell them who you are with, I would expect them to ask you to leave. Also, if the GM called you personally to tell you that you were not welcome back, how did he have your contact info if they didn't know who you were?

i gave them 4 friends who belong there and told him who i was meeting 5x's. he kept asking me who do i know and who am i meeting. weird, he was expecting me lie or something

[Sourpuss]

I had kind of a mixed reaction to your story. On the one hand, I hate that people of color still deal with situations like this, and on the other hand I feel like something is missing from the story. A person dressed appropriately for a country club round of golf isn’t generally going to be seen as a physical threat, even by the most bigoted of people. Certainly not multiple people calling security. Honestly, I kind of wonder if the call from the GM was more about some members thinking that you’re abusing the guest policy. Where I’ve been a member, a guy who plays a lot and takes lessons at the club but doesn’t join would be looked at with something less than a welcoming attitude by the folks who actually ponied up.

 

Regardless, agree completely with you on the efforts made by guys breaking the color barrier in golf and other “country club” sports. The women, too, who are still fighting for the right to full memberships and access to tee times at clubs that integrated decades ago.

i was wearing the appropriate clothing, tucked in. i have multiple friends who are members, they all ask me to play in the member guest, i spent $1500 on dinner a few weeks back and spend anywhere from 2-5 hundred bucks a month, plus i spend another $200 on tennis racquets getting strung and was asked to join but their gym is horrible. we were considering joining up until this happened.

[Sourpuss]

Touchy subject. An one that just shouldn’t occur, but the fact of the matter is, it still does.

 

My question, why not allowed to play there anymore. What happened to bring that about?

he gave me no answer

[Les Strokes]

Club security guard sounds like he needs re-training. The Club GM sounds pretty unreasonable. Sorry you had to go through all the hassle.

 

BTW that's quite back story about Cameron Champ's father and grandfather. I like CC, seems like he was pretty camera shy last year but getting more comfortable in the spotlight. Hope being a star doesn't change him

[dropkicked]

Well, sincerely crappy to hear this type of behavior. We should all be treating each as like minded enthusiasts, unless proven otherwise.

Security guard, behavior is typical.. but GM's behavior is unacceptable.

In this day and age and quite unfortunately, the only real manner in which to hold them accountable is to hold press in the court of public opinion.. It won't be pretty, but it may give you the satisfaction of forcing them to recognize this as an experience to learn and grow from.

This is what hastags were meant to be used for... #bringthenoise

[Birdie Mac]

OP, sorry this happened to you. These kinds of things absolutely make my blood boil. Curious - how did your friends handle it when you told them what happened? From experience, this is one way to determine who your true friends are.

 

Consider yourself lucky to be rid of that club; your money spends just as well, or better, at a place where you're welcome.

[Les Strokes]

Well, sincerely crappy to hear this type of behavior. We should all be treating each as like minded enthusiasts, unless proven otherwise.

Security guard, behavior is typical.. but GM's behavior is unacceptable.

In this day and age and quite unfortunately, the only real manner in which to hold them accountable is to hold press in the court of public opinion.. It won't be pretty, but it may give you the satisfaction of forcing them to recognize this as an experience to learn and grow from.

This is what hastags were meant to be used for... #bringthenoise

 

he doesn't have to do that yet, that's a card he could play later. It's better to handle it privately first

[titleistprov1man]

"Shift" key is your friend. Quick question. Why would you not just provide your friends name when asked the first time, before they had to ask five more times? I am a member of a private club, and if any person of any size, race, gender, age, etc. is hanging around, I would hope the staff would ask. If you refuse to tell them who you are with, I would expect them to ask you to leave. Also, if the GM called you personally to tell you that you were not welcome back, how did he have your contact info if they didn't know who you were?

 

 

 

Cant speak for the OP but going to guess they probably knew him from his friend. And that probably included the security guard. So if a security guard who knew you and your business, and who you were here to see. If this person asked your name and who you were here to see, how would you respond?

 

We don't know what the truth is. But why do you assume your answer over other possibilities? I will admit I know nothing of the OP. Maybe there is more to it?

 

I made no assumptions, just merely questions. I assume nothing, because we know what assuming gets you. I am not assuming the OP was in the right/wrong, or the club was in the right/wrong. I just have a inclination that the OP has his side, the club would have theirs, and there would always be a disagreement about where the truth lies. Society as a whole is quick to jump on any story and pick a side. I am not picking a side, as I do totally agree that there are still things that go on in this world that are completely unfair. But to judge everyone at this facility as being wrong, with nothing but an opinion of the OP, is just as unfair.

 

Sounds like you visited this club a lot, and if you haven't joined, at least you saw how you would feel there as a member before shelling out the money. Every club has those people, and you hate to be paired with them in any event, because they are the "get off my lawn" guys. They complain about everything. Not defending the GM, but he is answering to the members who are paying the membership money to keep his job. Not saying I agree with what he did or said, but he has self preservation motives too.

 

As quick as everyone was to jump on the OP side, and condemn the club, that is as bad as the club was for the rash judgement of the OP. Just amazing nobody sees that irony.

[ClintDagger]

"Shift" key is your friend. Quick question. Why would you not just provide your friends name when asked the first time, before they had to ask five more times? I am a member of a private club, and if any person of any size, race, gender, age, etc. is hanging around, I would hope the staff would ask. If you refuse to tell them who you are with, I would expect them to ask you to leave. Also, if the GM called you personally to tell you that you were not welcome back, how did he have your contact info if they didn't know who you were?

 

 

 

Cant speak for the OP but going to guess they probably knew him from his friend. And that probably included the security guard. So if a security guard who knew you and your business, and who you were here to see. If this person asked your name and who you were here to see, how would you respond?

 

We don't know what the truth is. But why do you assume your answer over other possibilities? I will admit I know nothing of the OP. Maybe there is more to it?

 

I made no assumptions, just merely questions. I assume nothing, because we know what assuming gets you. I am not assuming the OP was in the right/wrong, or the club was in the right/wrong. I just have a inclination that the OP has his side, the club would have theirs, and there would always be a disagreement about where the truth lies. Society as a whole is quick to jump on any story and pick a side. I am not picking a side, as I do totally agree that there are still things that go on in this world that are completely unfair. But to judge everyone at this facility as being wrong, with nothing but an opinion of the OP, is just as unfair.

 

Sounds like you visited this club a lot, and if you haven't joined, at least you saw how you would feel there as a member before shelling out the money. Every club has those people, and you hate to be paired with them in any event, because they are the "get off my lawn" guys. They complain about everything. Not defending the GM, but he is answering to the members who are paying the membership money to keep his job. Not saying I agree with what he did or said, but he has self preservation motives too.

 

As quick as everyone was to jump on the OP side, and condemn the club, that is as bad as the club was for the rash judgement of the OP. Just amazing nobody sees that irony.

Yep. Two sides to every story. I had a work acquaintance show up to my club as my guest much earlier than he should have and when I got there he told a story very similar to OP about being harassed and treated poorly. I was outraged until I learned that the guy was being very aggressive and inappropriate after being questioned about some of the things he was doing. Not saying that’s OP, but it’s very easy to make ourselves the hero or victim in our own versions of the story.

[golfandfishing]

Why on earth would you tell the guard that you are waiting on a “friend”? You know full well that he was sent to find out who you are and why you are in the parking lot. Why be ambiguous like that? Why not just say “Hi. I’m Sourpuss, a guest of Jim Smith. He’s a member here and I’m his guest today, just waiting for him to arrive.”

 

Saying “I’m waiting on a friend” while parked in the lot of a private club begs for them to ask you to leave, you are not indicating in any way that you are with a member.

 

 

Edit to add: I’m sorry this happened to you. Your race certainly drew attention from the members. However I believe your unclear response led to your dismissal. May not have been intentional on your part to omit that your “friend” is a member, but not providing that piece of information welcomes suspicion on anyone hanging out in their car in the parking lot.

[Christosterone]

.

[hammer1]

Why on earth would you tell the guard that you are waiting on a friend? You know full well that he was sent to find out who you are and why you are in the parking lot. Why be ambiguous like that? Why not just say Hi. Im Sourpuss, a guest of Jim Smith. Hes a member here and Im his guest today, just waiting for him to arrive.

 

Saying Im waiting on a friend while parked in the lot of a private club begs for them to ask you to leave, you are not indicating in any way that you are with a member.

 

 

Edit to add: Im sorry this happened to you. Your race certainly drew attention from the members. However I believe your unclear response led to your dismissal. May not have been intentional on your part to omit that your friend is a member, but not providing that piece of information welcomes suspicion on anyone hanging out in their car in the parking lot.

 

See post #9 in this thread. He gave the security guard the names of 4 members who he was meeting on 5 occasions.

[golfgirlrobin]

I had kind of a mixed reaction to your story. On the one hand, I hate that people of color still deal with situations like this, and on the other hand I feel like something is missing from the story. A person dressed appropriately for a country club round of golf isn’t generally going to be seen as a physical threat, even by the most bigoted of people. Certainly not multiple people calling security. Honestly, I kind of wonder if the call from the GM was more about some members thinking that you’re abusing the guest policy. Where I’ve been a member, a guy who plays a lot and takes lessons at the club but doesn’t join would be looked at with something less than a welcoming attitude by the folks who actually ponied up.

 

Regardless, agree completely with you on the efforts made by guys breaking the color barrier in golf and other “country club” sports. The women, too, who are still fighting for the right to full memberships and access to tee times at clubs that integrated decades ago.

i was wearing the appropriate clothing, tucked in. i have multiple friends who are members, they all ask me to play in the member guest, i spent $1500 on dinner a few weeks back and spend anywhere from 2-5 hundred bucks a month, plus i spend another $200 on tennis racquets getting strung and was asked to join but their gym is horrible. we were considering joining up until this happened.

 

I wasn’t inferring that you weren’t dressed properly, just that people who are usually go unnoticed in most social situations.

 

Your list of expenditures actually makes it more likely to me that you ticked off some club members or the GM. You’re a regular around the place but you didn’t buy a membership. You were asked to join but hadn’t, but you’re using the facilities/services like you belong there. Just saying, people notice that sort of thing.

[golfandfishing]

Why on earth would you tell the guard that you are waiting on a “friend”? You know full well that he was sent to find out who you are and why you are in the parking lot. Why be ambiguous like that? Why not just say “Hi. I’m Sourpuss, a guest of Jim Smith. He’s a member here and I’m his guest today, just waiting for him to arrive.”

 

Saying “I’m waiting on a friend” while parked in the lot of a private club begs for them to ask you to leave, you are not indicating in any way that you are with a member.

 

 

Edit to add: I’m sorry this happened to you. Your race certainly drew attention from the members. However I believe your unclear response led to your dismissal. May not have been intentional on your part to omit that your “friend” is a member, but not providing that piece of information welcomes suspicion on anyone hanging out in their car in the parking lot.

 

See post #9 in this thread. He gave the security guard the names of 4 members who he was meeting on 5 occasions.

 

Not exactly. He said he gave them names of 4 friends who were members, not that he was meeting them. Put yourself in the guard’s place. “I’m here meeting a friend. I know 4 members here. I’m meeting a member, his name is ....”. Repeat 5x.

 

Why would it take 3 sentences to get to that? I understand he was maybe flummoxed, but at the point the guard is obligated to be highly suspicious and act on behalf of the members who raised concern. Again, his race likely drew attention - but his action drew his dismissal. Incorrect as it may be in hindsight, the guard didn’t have the luxury of reading about the account prior to being in a situation with a person not giving a straight answer. Sourpuss’ first answer of “I’m meeting a friend here” is ambiguous at best. It is the equivalent of saying “I don’t have to show you my ID” to a police officer when you are a passenger in a stopped vehicle. It’s true, you don’t. And it’s true, he was meeting a friend. But the answer is not a forthcoming or positive way to participate in the interaction. Then rattling off 4 names of people he knows before settling on his statement of being a guest of another member couldn’t have helped.

[bladehunter]

Op. I’m going to give you my opinion without reading anyone else’s.

 

 

 

If I’m the member who invited you . The fireworks would still be going off. They had all better hope I don’t have any pull. But I guess in the end I’d just leave. Wouldn’t belong to a place that was that way.

 

Being a guy myself from a poor background I worked at a private club as a kid. Drove a piece of shat car that was multi colored. And twice was denied access to the back gate. And I was coming in for a shift. Not until I was known by my face did they let me alone. I’ve never forgot that. My kid (10 years old ) now has a summer membership there as it’s the club that has the local pga junior program that he Plays for. People treat us nice etc now. But I’ve never forgot the attitude when I was “ that white trash kid “. This was around 1996. It may not be the same exact thing. But it’s close enough that it made a mark. It made me never judge someone by their looks.

 

I don’t know what my point is except to say. Don’t loose faith. Everyone is not that way. Don’t let their prejudice cause you to distrust . There’s a lot of good in the world too. Just doesn’t always stand out as much.

[Les Strokes]

"It made me never judge someone by their looks". I learned that lesson too, from boxing when I was a teenager.

 

And no one, not even security guards or cops, have a right to treat someone else poorly or violate their rights. Otherwise this would be a police state. We have to defend against that.

[golfandfishing]

Having a hard time finding any rights violated here, let’s not pretend this is an oppressive police state atmosphere.

[Les Strokes]

the guy doesnt have a right to sit in his car in a parking lot? Was he harming anyone?

[golfandfishing]

Not on private property, no.

[Sourpuss]

thanks for all the kind words guys, there is a lot more to this story than i wrote but i just needed to vent, my wife and i actually own a couple of medical practices near to this club where it happened, we actually have about 20 clients who r members and repeatably invite my wife and i to the club, she does not golf, she enjoys exercising and as i said we did not join because it did not fit her life style, it fits mine. i was trying to talk her into joining and just two weeks ago i started buying her golf lessons at the club and then this happened, go figure

[Les Strokes]

Not on private property, no.

 

"Private property" - it ain't private if they are paying property taxes. If they defaulted on their tax bill the property title would shift. All they have is a tenancy.

[golfandfishing]

Not on private property, no.

 

"Private property" - it ain't private if they are paying property taxes. If they defaulted on their tax bill the property title would shift. All they have is a tenancy.

 

???????????