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Kuchar/El Tucan caddie controversy (NO POLITICS)


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Poll is missing the "Don't care" choice. Not that I don't care about the poll, but I don't care about who pays what to whom.

 

Yet you post on a the same topic that already has a zillion posts!

 

If you didn’t care, you would ignore the issue altogether. Like I do when I see an anything on one of the Kardashian’s

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Poll is missing the "Don't care" choice. Not that I don't care about the poll, but I don't care about who pays what to whom.

That's when you skip the survey and move on to something else.

 

Haha. On a roll now I see.

 

But the point is, like I already said, is that it’s not “I don’t care about the thread”, it’s “I don’t care about the resolution” You are missing a piece of data by leaving it out, strictly speaking only numbers here.

 

 

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Poll is missing the "Don't care" choice. Not that I don't care about the poll, but I don't care about who pays what to whom.

 

Yet you post on a the same topic that already has a zillion posts!

 

If you didn’t care, you would ignore the issue altogether. Like I do when I see an anything on one of the Kardashian’s ��

 

Read the above post. That piece of data is useful, strictly numerically speaking

 

Also. I have maybe 3 post on the whole topic this one. I was interested in, because of the numbers.

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I am torn on this because I think this is the problem when something that is private goes out to be public. It isn't our business to know what was agreed upon and know the amount of money was passed along. I have also learned to not expect much from people from my days of working as support for people in sales. The first 3 years I worked out of college as a project specialist and worked directly with some outside sales reps, helping them accomplish their budget, I thought I was going to get kick back when they were bonused out in March. March would come around and they would get their lumpsum and I would not get more than a $100 starbucks gift card. I know their bonus was between $5,000 and $7,000, so I would be lying the first few years I thought I would get $500 at least for my efforts during the year. And when I only got $100, I felt extremely ungrateful and resentful towards them. I did a lot of work throughout the year and I get rewarded with a $100 gift card and a $50 bottle of whiskey? I hated how ungrateful I felt for not getting "free" money and not being appreciative for a gift because I was privy to know how much they made, which was not my business. Now, I am certain there are sales reps that take care of their support team, but the fact is they do not HAVE to, but it is a very generous act when they do.

 

I know sports that number is known so it is a little different, but this is the problem with assuming you are going to get more than you actually got. He turned down $15,000 because he thought he was going to get $50,000. It is a slap in the face when you find out you 'worth' to someone, so I don't want to victim center blame El Tucan but hope this can be at least a learning experience to just because someone who a big lumpsum of money doesn't mean you are entitled to a certain amount.

 

I am not going to root against Kuch going forward and hope he continues to win on the tour and make money hand over fist and feels comfortable being more generous. For all we know, not winning for years and playing every week hurt the pocket book and forced him to get tight. I don't want to make excuses for him, but the fact is we don't know how he is doing financially, we can only assume because he has been on the tour for a long time he is doing extremely well for himself.

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I don't like the poll choices. I would've rather seen a deal where he got paid more, but he accepted a deal. The concept of re-negotiating a deal in the court of public opinion is dangerous, and as the caddy has seen has got him burned. He could've pocketed another 15k but held out and now seems he'll get zero.

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I don't like the poll choices. I would've rather seen a deal where he got paid more, but he accepted a deal. The concept of re-negotiating a deal in the court of public opinion is dangerous, and as the caddy has seen has got him burned. He could've pocketed another 15k but held out and now seems he'll get zero.

 

This

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From the simplest of perspectives the two had a prior arrangement that maxed out at $4k. Kuchar paid that, along with an extra $1k, so he seems in the clear there.

 

It's also reported that Kuchar offered $15k at some point which is nearly 4x the prior arrangement. The confusion seems to be with regard to the notion that "caddies get 10% of the winner's check."

 

While that may be true we do not know in what scenarios it's true or how often it's carried out. Without knowledge about that, we really cannot side with the caddie here, particularly given that he was a stand-in and there was little-to-no existing business relationship between he and Kuchar.

 

So I would probably side with Kuchar until someone shows that the 10% rule is applied universally regardless of other factors...I suspect it's probably not, but I have no real data.

 

 

I did not vote because of the wording of the poll.

 

Should the caddie be "happy?" Not necessarily. But unhappiness might simply extend from his own decision to sign the contract he did which did not stipulate any additional money in the event of a win. Few would describe themselves as "happy" with the outcome of a bad (or incomplete) contract.

 

Should Kuchar have given the caddie $50k? Unless we can show that this 10% practice is consistently carried out independent of the relationship of the player and the caddie, that seems like a really dubious assumption based on internet rumor and hearsay.

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If it was Phil he would’ve known to tip Tucan big and make a feel good story about it. Phil always will be known as the most generous tipper on Tour.

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El Tucan is not a tour caddie therefore should not be paid as one. And THEY AGREED ON A NUMBER. He should have negotiated better and also take the extra 15k.

 

Maybe he could have punched his ticket to get the bag next year when he tries to defend the title. Well, that ship has sailed now.

 

Hopefully Old Man Gillis qualifies and plays there. :D

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I don't want to tell someone what to do with their money, but it seems were getting better and better at that as a society.

 

I imagine Kuchar wishes he'd given a slightly bigger tip as that little extra could have offset any negative publicity. But I won't say he "should" have. He worked hard to get where he is too (just like Tucan) and both he and the caddy made more than they typically do in a week. I'm not going to hate Kuchar because his number is bigger

 

I can't go with either poll option, really. I understand why the caddy wanted more, but I can't say he "deserved" it

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Should be an option for All of the Above.

 

This, there are so many options missing.

 

Personally I think it was cheap, but I also understand it was prearranged agreement and the caddie should only be mad at himself for making a s*** deal.

 

 

My choice would be "Kooch should have given $25k, and the caddie should be silent given kooch didn't do anything outside of their prearranged deal."

 

$50k seems oddly excessive.

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If people here think that pro's are routining paying local caddies 10% of their winnings when their regular tour caddie is some how unavailable you are dreaming. I had a friend who ended up with Nicklaus's bag once because his tour caddie was indisposed (it was Las Vegas). He didn't get more than $50 for the effort. Routine caddying just isn't that hard a job. Show-up, keep-up, shut-up. No one here even know how good a job this guy did. Kuch might have won despite this guy not because of his help.

 

I bet Kuch wishes he had given him more simply because he is now part of a classic internet stink show. The only long term outcome of all of this is probably there will be fewer top pro's willing to use local caddies at tour events and a good chance that less of them travel to Mexico next year.

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It's kind of depressing that most of the blame is being placed on Kuchar in this poll. If you enter a financial agreement with someone voluntarily, trading your services for an agreed upon sum, how is it fair play for you to initiate a brouhaha later over the amount of the sum that you agreed to? It reminds me of the folks who complain about the wages paid by Walmart. These people complain about the company that actually gave them a chance, hired them, and pays them regularly. They're not protesting Apple or IBM or Exxon Mobil for NOT giving them a job. No, they're protesting the one company that did give them a job. It's an entitlement mentality that I abhor. I'm absolutely certain this dude did a substandard caddying job relative to what Kuchar is used to. There is no reason he should have gotten full pay for a substandard job. Further, he has no "right" to one red cent of Kuchar's money above the mutually agreed upon sum.

 

One of the hallmarks of a free society is free association and free exchange. No one forced this guy at the point of a bayonet to take Kuchar's bag.

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El Tucan is not a tour caddie therefore should not be paid as one. And THEY AGREED ON A NUMBER. He should have negotiated better and also take the extra 15k.

 

Maybe he could have punched his ticket to get the bag next year when he tries to defend the title. Well, that ship has sailed now.

 

They agreed on a salary and Kuchar said for a win he will give a bonus. It was not defined by either side. Kuchars big bonus for winning 1.3million was like .23%. WHat a great bonus huh? Imagine you meet your goals at work and the boss said "hey come on over to my office I got a bonus for ya", then he whips out a check for $17.83. That's what happened to El Tucan.

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It's kind of depressing that most of the blame is being placed on Kuchar in this poll. If you enter a financial agreement with someone voluntarily, trading your services for an agreed upon sum, how is it fair play for you to initiate a brouhaha later over the amount of the sum that you agreed to? It reminds me of the folks who complain about the wages paid by Walmart. These people complain about the company that actually gave them a chance, hired them, and pays them regularly. They're not protesting Apple or IBM or Exxon Mobil for NOT giving them a job. No, they're protesting the one company that did give them a job. It's an entitlement mentality that I abhor. I'm absolutely certain this dude did a substandard caddying job relative to what Kuchar is used to. There is no reason he should have gotten full pay for a substandard job. Further, he has no "right" to one red cent of Kuchar's money above the mutually agreed upon sum.

 

One of the hallmarks of a free society is free association and free exchange. No one forced this guy at the point of a bayonet to take Kuchar's bag.

 

Entitlement is paying someone less than 1/2 of 1% and feeling like you did them a favor.

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El Tucan is not a tour caddie therefore should not be paid as one. And THEY AGREED ON A NUMBER. He should have negotiated better and also take the extra 15k.

 

Maybe he could have punched his ticket to get the bag next year when he tries to defend the title. Well, that ship has sailed now.

 

Get out of here with that sound logical conclusion

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It's kind of depressing that most of the blame is being placed on Kuchar in this poll. If you enter a financial agreement with someone voluntarily, trading your services for an agreed upon sum, how is it fair play for you to initiate a brouhaha later over the amount of the sum that you agreed to? It reminds me of the folks who complain about the wages paid by Walmart. These people complain about the company that actually gave them a chance, hired them, and pays them regularly. They're not protesting Apple or IBM or Exxon Mobil for NOT giving them a job. No, they're protesting the one company that did give them a job. It's an entitlement mentality that I abhor. I'm absolutely certain this dude did a substandard caddying job relative to what Kuchar is used to. There is no reason he should have gotten full pay for a substandard job. Further, he has no "right" to one red cent of Kuchar's money above the mutually agreed upon sum.

 

One of the hallmarks of a free society is free association and free exchange. No one forced this guy at the point of a bayonet to take Kuchar's bag.

 

Entitlement is paying someone less than 1/2 of 1% and feeling like you did them a favor.

 

No, entitlement is getting paid 12,000% more than you usually make and still finding a reason to b****.

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I suspect a substantial portion of the galleries over the next few months will treat Kuchar with a perceptible level of disdain. For someone who has up to this point in his career been treated well by most fans, I’m interested to see how, or if this affects his performance.

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It's kind of depressing that most of the blame is being placed on Kuchar in this poll. If you enter a financial agreement with someone voluntarily, trading your services for an agreed upon sum, how is it fair play for you to initiate a brouhaha later over the amount of the sum that you agreed to? It reminds me of the folks who complain about the wages paid by Walmart. These people complain about the company that actually gave them a chance, hired them, and pays them regularly. They're not protesting Apple or IBM or Exxon Mobil for NOT giving them a job. No, they're protesting the one company that did give them a job. It's an entitlement mentality that I abhor. I'm absolutely certain this dude did a substandard caddying job relative to what Kuchar is used to. There is no reason he should have gotten full pay for a substandard job. Further, he has no "right" to one red cent of Kuchar's money above the mutually agreed upon sum.

 

One of the hallmarks of a free society is free association and free exchange. No one forced this guy at the point of a bayonet to take Kuchar's bag.

 

Entitlement is paying someone less than 1/2 of 1% and feeling like you did them a favor.

 

No, entitlement is getting paid 12,000% more than you usually make and still finding a reason to b****.

 

You are comparing that with a normal loop vs a televised professional sporting event on the pga tour. Apples vs oranges. An apples to apples comparison is what he got paid vs a pga tour caddy because that's what he was that week. I mean maybe we should say Kuchar made 12,000% too much compared to a mini tour win on the florida circuit. Both golf events where they are doing the same thing right?

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Confirmed Kuchar paid $5,000?

 

 

 

Yeah looks like it's confirmed.

 

And i read after he won he offered a further 15K? but the caddie turned it down.

 

20k for a weeks work seems good to me

 

Actually according to one of the most recent articles, Kuch never offered him another dime... his agent did trying to exercise damage control... Kuch would have had to pay for it but it was not an attempt by him personally nor done at his request.

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If you have read everything you would know that there is no fact that has been established that there was a prior agreement for 3 to 5K. It's still a he said this and he said that. Kuch and El Tucan are indicating different understandings... and that may be what is driving the whole mess to begin with... potentially the two never really understood the agreement the same way.

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El Tucan is not a tour caddie therefore should not be paid as one. And THEY AGREED ON A NUMBER. He should have negotiated better and also take the extra 15k.

 

Maybe he could have punched his ticket to get the bag next year when he tries to defend the title. Well, that ship has sailed now.

 

They agreed on a salary and Kuchar said for a win he will give a bonus. It was not defined by either side. Kuchars big bonus for winning 1.3million was like .23%. WHat a great bonus huh? Imagine you meet your goals at work and the boss said "hey come on over to my office I got a bonus for ya", then he whips out a check for $17.83. That's what happened to El Tucan.

 

I met all of my goals last year and my bonus was way less than El Toucan got as a percentage of my employers profits.

 

I got somewhere in the range of 0.00244% bonus on my companies profit. El Tucan got a bonus that was about 100 times bigger than mine and he only worked for 5 or 6 days when I worked for 40-50 times the amount of time that he did. Should I complain?

 

Also I'm comparing my companies profits to Kuchars winnings (revenue). If we looked at revenue based bonus from my company (like you are looking at for kuch) I'm even worse off then.

 

Quick what is the number for a good labor lawyer?

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I suspect a substantial portion of the galleries over the next few months will treat Kuchar with a perceptible level of disdain. For someone who has up to this point in his career been treated well by most fans, I’m interested to see how, or if this affects his performance.

 

This will be an interesting thing to watch, personally I don't feel it will be an ongoing story in the real world, beyond some light barbs from fans. But I think if he is in contention he'll get cheers.

 

I have been wrong before though (I think once in like 2011, and like maybe once in 2004 before that). So I could be wrong

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