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Jon Rahm - early bowed left wrist


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This just isn’t true at all. They are swinging a golf club just like the rest of us. I know the instruction forum has been against emulating tour pros as of late, but that’s ridiculous. Excellent golf

So true. I'm glad you say this because I have absolutely taken things from several pros and implemented them successfully into my swing.   I'm getting sick and tired of instructors claiming that tryin

After watching the video I have the impression that those so called " other things" you mentioned might be fairly important for the golfer to know and be able to execute to make this work. there's lot's of golfers who ulnar deviate etc. but who also flip stall.

I see a lot of players who are good through P-5 with a face that matches the spine angle and they still stall and flip:

 

The reason is usually because they haven't learned to rotate their right side through impact. They then incorrectly believe they need to hold the right arm bent.

 

What you have to do is get the left glute rotated out of the way towards the tush line and add in a blend of front and right bend without moving the head forward. The hips also tilt.

 

I can't say it enough, but trying to get into or hit positions will only make things worse. Everything is a kinetic chain of events where one event influences the other all driven by intent.

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Basically when the club is 90* to the forearm you use flexion/extension to close/open the face and when it is in line with the forearm you use supination/pronation to close/open - in between you use a combo. The wrists work in opposites - flex lead/extend trail close - extend lead/flex trail open. Besides the above video Tyler has a section in his book on wrist movements and their affect on the clubface - he also has numerous additional videos in his pay site.

 

Just been looking at this video and its quite interesting.

 

1.So if someone like Jon Rahm is bowing his wrist in the downswing, he is closing the clubface relative to the clubhead path?

2. That if he retains that bowing into the downswing club position with shaft parallel to ground- (ie 9 o'clock from a face on view), the clubface will be inclined more or less parallel to his spine tilt ( from a DTL view), now square to the club path? Not like we've been taught to have the face pointing vertically and open to the club path?

3. That all he needs to do is then pivot his body around into impact because there will be no need to rotate his arms , because his clubface is square?

 

Have I got this correct?

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Basically when the club is 90* to the forearm you use flexion/extension to close/open the face and when it is in line with the forearm you use supination/pronation to close/open - in between you use a combo. The wrists work in opposites - flex lead/extend trail close - extend lead/flex trail open. Besides the above video Tyler has a section in his book on wrist movements and their affect on the clubface - he also has numerous additional videos in his pay site.

 

Just been looking at this video and its quite interesting.

 

1.So if someone like Jon Rahm is bowing his wrist in the downswing, he is closing the clubface relative to the clubhead path?

2. That if he retains that bowing into the downswing club position with shaft parallel to ground- (ie 9 o'clock from a face on view), the clubface will be inclined more or less parallel to his spine tilt ( from a DTL view), now square to the club path? Not like we've been taught to have the face pointing vertically and open to the club path?

3. That all he needs to do is then pivot his body around into impact because there will be no need to rotate his arms , because his clubface is square?

 

Have I got this correct?

Pretty much, but the club face will not be square to the path. And his arms will still rotate - everybody rotates their arms in release.

 

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Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

Laugh-a while you can, monkey boy.
Enjoy every sandwich

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Basically when the club is 90* to the forearm you use flexion/extension to close/open the face and when it is in line with the forearm you use supination/pronation to close/open - in between you use a combo. The wrists work in opposites - flex lead/extend trail close - extend lead/flex trail open. Besides the above video Tyler has a section in his book on wrist movements and their affect on the clubface - he also has numerous additional videos in his pay site.

 

Just been looking at this video and its quite interesting.

 

1.So if someone like Jon Rahm is bowing his wrist in the downswing, he is closing the clubface relative to the clubhead path?

2. That if he retains that bowing into the downswing club position with shaft parallel to ground- (ie 9 o'clock from a face on view), the clubface will be inclined more or less parallel to his spine tilt ( from a DTL view), now square to the club path? Not like we've been taught to have the face pointing vertically and open to the club path?

3. That all he needs to do is then pivot his body around into impact because there will be no need to rotate his arms , because his clubface is square?

 

Have I got this correct?

Pretty much, but the club face will not be square to the path. And his arms will still rotate - everybody rotates their arms in release.

 

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Many thanks for this - good videos. So the bowing of the lead wrist will just reduce the total amount of forearm rotation from address to impact? If for example, someone was able to measure the lead forearm (or even right forearm) angle of rotation at address and then measured it at impact, it would show less rotation if one was using a bowing lead wrist rather than a flat left wrist?

 

Further , looking at that previous Tyler video , if one was just abducting the lead arm through impact with a bowed wrist , that would tend to open the clubface. So even with a bowed left wrist into impact one would need to rotate the lead forearm more to square the clubface (to cancel the opening effect of the abducting lead arm)?

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Here's a Tyler video that can give you some more insight into the pattern of forearm movement through the swing. He dives right into the 3D graphs early in the video - both pros and amateur. I don't think abducting the lead arm opens the face - it is a steepening movement but face orientation is affected by shaft rotation and forearm rotation - in any case yes whether your wrist is flexed or extended, forearm rotation is used to square the face as the club aligns with the forearm - pretty much the reason why one needs to rotate the shaft early in transition via the wrist since one the lead wrists begins to unhinge then forearm rotation takes over, as predominate, in squaring the face.

 

You should consider 1) purchasing Tyler's book - The Stock Tour Swing 2) and taking a free 7 day trail of his website (you can only see his youtube video for free and he has well over 800 videos on his pay site - organized, and searchable. He is also very generous with his time in answering member questions. He was involved very early in reading 3D graphs and has seen hundreds of them - starting way back in the early/mid 2000s.

 

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

Laugh-a while you can, monkey boy.
Enjoy every sandwich

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Here's a Tyler video that can give you some more insight into the pattern of forearm movement through the swing. He dives right into the 3D graphs early in the video - both pros and amateur. I don't think abducting the lead arm opens the face - it is a steepening movement but face orientation is affected by shaft rotation and forearm rotation - in any case yes whether your wrist is flexed or extended, forearm rotation is used to square the face as the club aligns with the forearm - pretty much the reason why one needs to rotate the shaft early in transition via the wrist since one the lead wrists begins to unhinge then forearm rotation takes over, as predominate, in squaring the face.

 

You should consider 1) purchasing Tyler's book - The Stock Tour Swing 2) and taking a free 7 day trail of his website (you can only see his youtube video for free and he has well over 800 videos on his pay site - organized, and searchable. He is also very generous with his time in answering member questions. He was involved very early in reading 3D graphs and has seen hundreds of them - starting way back in the early/mid 2000s.

 

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Many thanks for this .

 

I'm assuming that with a bowed wrist , the amount of lead forearm rotation (either supination/pronation) at address compared to impact will show Jon Rahm's forearm has rotated less. However, if it has rotated more, then does that mean a bowed wrist does not close the clubface?

 

I've actually emailed Jon Rahm and asked him whether he would let me see his lead forearm rotation TPI 3D graph (may as well ask even if he refuses).

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Here's a Tyler video that can give you some more insight into the pattern of forearm movement through the swing. He dives right into the 3D graphs early in the video - both pros and amateur. I don't think abducting the lead arm opens the face - it is a steepening movement but face orientation is affected by shaft rotation and forearm rotation - in any case yes whether your wrist is flexed or extended, forearm rotation is used to square the face as the club aligns with the forearm - pretty much the reason why one needs to rotate the shaft early in transition via the wrist since one the lead wrists begins to unhinge then forearm rotation takes over, as predominate, in squaring the face.

 

You should consider 1) purchasing Tyler's book - The Stock Tour Swing 2) and taking a free 7 day trail of his website (you can only see his youtube video for free and he has well over 800 videos on his pay site - organized, and searchable. He is also very generous with his time in answering member questions. He was involved very early in reading 3D graphs and has seen hundreds of them - starting way back in the early/mid 2000s.

 

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GLK, can you further clarify what you are are saying here? Do you mean you should bow that left wrist early in transition so that you don't need as much forearm rotation/supination to close the clubface?

 

"...in any case yes whether your wrist is flexed or extended, forearm rotation is used to square the face as the clubaligns with the forearm - pretty much the reason why one needs to rotate the shaft early in transition via the wrist since one the lead wrists begins to unhinge then forearm rotation takes over, as predominate, in squaring the face."

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I have asked a TPI 3D expert for his opinion and highlighted some important sentences.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The wrist are very complexed. You have to look at both to really determine how the club is being manipulated.

 

First of all a position in and of itself neither opens or closes the club face. So these players having flexed lead wrist does not mean they have closed the club. The grip has a lot to do with what is happening as well.

 

As a very general rule a player with a lot of flexion in their wrist at the top will actually start closing the club face later than one with a lot of extension. I am talking about world class players here. After club transition flexed players will tend to move toward extension a bit before going hard back to flexion.

 

I cannot think of a player off the top of my head that does not have less supination at impact than when they started. This is a tricky measurement though. AMM does not do the shoulder girdles so that can alter it some.

 

Moving toward flexion closes the club face at the top but then acts and opens it at impact. Pronation/Supination takes the in and out of plane until you get more ulnar deviation then lead supination/ trail pronation closes it.

 

I would need to do a complete study but I would doubt highly that there is less or more forearm movement in a flexed wrist over a extended one. If you are talking about higher or lower ROC I would also say that is a myth. It is what people want to believe. It fits nicely with a narrative.

 

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Here's a Tyler video that can give you some more insight into the pattern of forearm movement through the swing. He dives right into the 3D graphs early in the video - both pros and amateur. I don't think abducting the lead arm opens the face - it is a steepening movement but face orientation is affected by shaft rotation and forearm rotation - in any case yes whether your wrist is flexed or extended, forearm rotation is used to square the face as the club aligns with the forearm - pretty much the reason why one needs to rotate the shaft early in transition via the wrist since one the lead wrists begins to unhinge then forearm rotation takes over, as predominate, in squaring the face.

 

You should consider 1) purchasing Tyler's book - The Stock Tour Swing 2) and taking a free 7 day trail of his website (you can only see his youtube video for free and he has well over 800 videos on his pay site - organized, and searchable. He is also very generous with his time in answering member questions. He was involved very early in reading 3D graphs and has seen hundreds of them - starting way back in the early/mid 2000s.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

GLK, can you further clarify what you are are saying here? Do you mean you should bow that left wrist early in transition so that you don't need as much forearm rotation/supination to close the clubface?

 

"...in any case yes whether your wrist is flexed or extended, forearm rotation is used to square the face as the clubaligns with the forearm - pretty much the reason why one needs to rotate the shaft early in transition via the wrist since one the lead wrists begins to unhinge then forearm rotation takes over, as predominate, in squaring the face."

 

I think DD video describes it well. The orientation of the face is important to support rotation, shaft lean, and to counter moves in the downswing that open the face (shallowing, shaft lean). Note how at around the 4:25 mark of the video he gets the golfer to flex in transition.

 

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

Laugh-a while you can, monkey boy.
Enjoy every sandwich

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Here's a Tyler video that can give you some more insight into the pattern of forearm movement through the swing. He dives right into the 3D graphs early in the video - both pros and amateur. I don't think abducting the lead arm opens the face - it is a steepening movement but face orientation is affected by shaft rotation and forearm rotation - in any case yes whether your wrist is flexed or extended, forearm rotation is used to square the face as the club aligns with the forearm - pretty much the reason why one needs to rotate the shaft early in transition via the wrist since one the lead wrists begins to unhinge then forearm rotation takes over, as predominate, in squaring the face.

 

You should consider 1) purchasing Tyler's book - The Stock Tour Swing 2) and taking a free 7 day trail of his website (you can only see his youtube video for free and he has well over 800 videos on his pay site - organized, and searchable. He is also very generous with his time in answering member questions. He was involved very early in reading 3D graphs and has seen hundreds of them - starting way back in the early/mid 2000s.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

GLK, can you further clarify what you are are saying here? Do you mean you should bow that left wrist early in transition so that you don't need as much forearm rotation/supination to close the clubface?

 

"...in any case yes whether your wrist is flexed or extended, forearm rotation is used to square the face as the clubaligns with the forearm - pretty much the reason why one needs to rotate the shaft early in transition via the wrist since one the lead wrists begins to unhinge then forearm rotation takes over, as predominate, in squaring the face."

 

I think DD video describes it well. The orientation of the face is important to support rotation, shaft lean, and to counter moves in the downswing that open the face (shallowing, shaft lean). Note how at around the 4:25 mark of the video he gets the golfer to flex in transition.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

I've learned so much in these two threads that I never knew about shaft lean, pivoting the body, flipping, etc. Makes a lot more sense now why people flip, why they don't open their hips, etc and how you can't just, in a vacuum, open your hips more, or just stop flipping (unless you don't care that the ball is going dead right). As much as I've read on this board over the years, not sure why I am just understanding this now but better late than never.

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  • 1 year later...

Found this thread after googleling keywords to try and explain the eureka moment I had at the range today.

A little back ground I can hit the ball far but the driver has been my.worst club only shot in the 80's a half dozen times, I have been playing for 15 years about 15.to 20 rounds a year. Im.42 with short arms and stocky build.

I usually push slice 2 or 3 drives a round out of bounds. On video I hit with an open clubface have trouble rotating the forearms through impact and releasing the club and clearing the hips

Today I was tinkering and I would bow my wrist hard with a weak lead hand and a neutral bottom hand at address. I focused on keeping the wrist bowed throughout the swing and keeping the lead arm attached to the body

All I did was hold that position and take the club away with wrist bowed and turn my body that was my only swing thought to tightly hold that bowed wrist position

Well i have never driven the ball like i did today 280 yards 20 shots in a row the the fairway.

I am pretty pumped that i found something that works. After reading this thread it seems bowing the wrist is closing my clubface i also feel it is helping me stay connected and have the arms and body working as one

Would love to here a comment on this from you guys

 

 

 

 

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At Monte's clinic in March, he immediately recognized the fundamental "fault" in my swing as having a cupped wrist at the top. I have never had any formal instruction, so this was something I never thought about. This thread discusses a lot of technical terminology, but for me, it became conceptually pretty simple once I thought it through. It comes downs to getting my wrists to impact position at the top (flat left wrist, bowed right wrist), so that I can "just turn hard through the ball" on the downswing. Previously, I had my wrists at address position at the top (bowed left wrist, flat right wrist), and then had to close the face during the downswing, which was a recipe for inconsistent face angle at impact. I had thought the "weak rights" were a path issue, when really they were a face-angle issue caused by being way too open at the top.

I recognize some of the discussion regarding wrist pain, etc.. To get my left wrist even to flat at the top without feeling a "binding" in my left wrist, I had to change my grip some. I had developed a "butterfly" grip (fairly strong left, fairly weak right). This just didn't allow me to get a flat left wrist with a proper hinge at the top. But the flat wrist was achievable by strengthening my right hand a bit, and using a "long" thumb with my left hand. I am hitting my irons so much better now that I can't believe it. Seriously, this one change has completely transformed my iron play. I used to fear my long irons, typically missing them high, short and right. Couldn't hit a draw with a 4, 5 or 6 iron to save my life. Now a "normal" swing is a couple yard draw, although I still can hit a fade by simply setting up a little open, with the ball a little more forward, and swinging along my toe line. It is just so much simpler to control the face angle when you don't have to manipulate the face on the way down.

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