Alex Cejka DQ on new rule

[Swisstrader98]

This one seems pretty straightforward to me:

 

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

 

Alex Cejka disqualified from Honda Classic for using illegal greens-reading materials

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2019/02/28/alex-cejka-disqualified-from-honda-classic-pga-tour-rules/39131815/

[cardoustie]

more golf rules stupidity

[Sawgrass]

more golf rules stupidity

I don't think you should call Cejka stupid. But he sure was careless.

[nova6868]

more golf rules stupidity

 

This is actually a good rule though. Glad they are enforcing it.

 

[Augster]

If they really felt green reading should be done with the eyes, and it’s an essential skill, they should get rid of green books altogether. It’s a rule that only affects high level guys. Nobody I know uses green books.

 

Simplify the rules. Get rid of green books altogether.

[ORT]

It's a shame to see him DQ'd but you break the rules you pay the price.

[McGee72]

Getting DQ’d for using a greens book from previous years when they redid the greens just this past year...... should’ve let him continue using it, jokes on him.

[Sawgrass]

If they really felt green reading should be done with the eyes, and it's an essential skill, they should get rid of green books altogether. It's a rule that only affects high level guys. Nobody I know uses green books.

 

Simplify the rules. Get rid of green books altogether.

Would you therefore outlaw all yardage books that show a green's shape? I like using a yardage book on an unfamiliar course. I think it's a fine compromise to have one, even one which tells me the general slope of the green from a distance, but not allow too much detail in the process.

 

Following the rule is as simple as making sure your equipment is up to date. Don't use old grooves if they are currently disallowed, don't use old yardage books if they are disallowed.

 

I believe that illegal books are virtually only used by pros and highly skilled players, all of whom should be able to adjust without taking my more crude book away from me.

[finleysg]

I have a hard time working up any sympathy for penalties applied to professional golfers. This is their livelihood -- how do they not know the rules better than anyone?

[the bishop]

more golf rules stupidity

I don't think you should call Cejka stupid. But he sure was careless.

Reasonable people can disagree on either the need or effectiveness on the rules changes. But not on the enforcement of them. Those are two different things. Rickie's drop last week and now this - no excuse for those violations. Both should know better by now.

[Augster]

If they really felt green reading should be done with the eyes, and it's an essential skill, they should get rid of green books altogether. It's a rule that only affects high level guys. Nobody I know uses green books.

 

Simplify the rules. Get rid of green books altogether.

Would you therefore outlaw all yardage books that show a green's shape? I like using a yardage book on an unfamiliar course. I think it's a fine compromise to have one, even one which tells me the general slope of the green from a distance, but not allow too much detail in the process.

 

Following the rule is as simple as making sure your equipment is up to date. Don't use old grooves if they are currently disallowed, don't use old yardage books if they are disallowed.

 

I believe that illegal books are virtually only used by pros and highly skilled players, all of whom should be able to adjust without taking my more crude book away from me.

 

No. Not all books. Knowing the shape of a green, or a picture of it from above like a GPS rendering or satellite photo, won’t help you read it at all.

 

If I were king though, I’d get rid of all yardage books. Just GPS and lasers.

 

And pacing off a yardage would be a 2SP.

[PedronNiall]

On the one hand, rules are rules, so once they're in place speak against them if you don't like them, but make sure you adhere to them. On the other, he certainly wasn't gaining any advantages by using an outdated book. In terms of the spirit of things I see no means by which this added to anyone's perception of the game as a whole nor did it do anything to benefit the air of play of the tournament so to speak. Pretty sad that Tringale would call an official over that way rather than simply speaking with him and clearing things up.

[Sawgrass]

On the one hand, rules are rules, so once they're in place speak against them if you don't like them, but make sure you adhere to them. On the other, he certainly wasn't gaining any advantages by using an outdated book. In terms of the spirit of things I see no means by which this added to anyone's perception of the game as a whole nor did it do anything to benefit the air of play of the tournament so to speak. Pretty sad that Tringale would call an official over that way rather than simply speaking with him and clearing things up.

You're saying it should be okay to use the illegal book because it has wrong information? Exactly how should a ref come to that conclusion? Maybe by rolling a few balls?

 

If Cejka had only used the illegal book once, it would have been gentlemanly for someone to draw his attention to the violation then so he could cease using it, or confirm the information. Once Cejka had referred to it twice, he was DQ irrespective of the outcome of a discussion with anyone.

 

Players who violate rules, here's a choice of reasonable comments for you:

 

1) Crap, I knew that and I screwed up.

2) I didn't know that, please explain it to me.

3) I am such a stupid. (Old, I know, but still worthy of respect.)

[KevCarter]

You're saying it should be okay to use the illegal book because it has wrong information? Exactly how should a ref come to that conclusion? Maybe by rolling a few balls?

 

If Cejka had only used the illegal book once, it would have been gentlemanly for someone to draw his attention to the violation then so he could cease using it, or confirm the information. Once Cejka had referred to it twice, he was DQ irrespective of the outcome of a discussion with anyone.

 

Players who violate rules, here's a choice of reasonable comments for you:

 

1) Crap, I knew that and I screwed up.

2) I didn't know that, please explain it to me.

3) I am such a stupid. (Old, I know, but still worthy of respect.)

 

I think the penalty statement in every rule should end with:

 

"If you don't feel you gained an advantage, please disregard."

[sui generis]

On the one hand, rules are rules, so once they're in place speak against them if you don't like them, but make sure you adhere to them. On the other, he certainly wasn't gaining any advantages by using an outdated book. In terms of the spirit of things I see no means by which this added to anyone's perception of the game as a whole nor did it do anything to benefit the air of play of the tournament so to speak. Pretty sad that Tringale would call an official over that way rather than simply speaking with him and clearing things up.

 

R20.1c says:

 

To protect the interests of all other players: If a player knows or believes that another player has breached or might have breached the Rules and that the other player does not recognize or is ignoring this, the player should tell the other player, the player’s marker, a referee or the Committee.

 

This should be done promptly after the player becomes aware of the issue, and no later than before the other player returns his or her scorecard unless it is not possible to do so.

 

If the player fails to do so, the Committee may disqualify the player under Rule 1.2a if it decides that this was serious misconduct contrary to the spirit of the game.

 

What is it you think Tringale did wrong? Do you think he could have whispered in his ear. "Hey, you better not use that book anymore." Do you know what the outcome would have been? How about two players disqualified. :)

[KevCarter]

You're saying it should be okay to use the illegal book because it has wrong information? Exactly how should a ref come to that conclusion? Maybe by rolling a few balls?

 

If Cejka had only used the illegal book once, it would have been gentlemanly for someone to draw his attention to the violation then so he could cease using it, or confirm the information. Once Cejka had referred to it twice, he was DQ irrespective of the outcome of a discussion with anyone.

 

Players who violate rules, here's a choice of reasonable comments for you:

 

1) Crap, I knew that and I screwed up.

2) I didn't know that, please explain it to me.

3) I am such a stupid. (Old, I know, but still worthy of respect.)

 

Hey, I just came up with a new one. Fellow competitor asks you to mark your ball that is in the fringe. You clean it. A rules official wants to penalize you as he clearly saw you clean it.

 

Player: Hey, it got dirty as soon as I dropped it, so no advantage gained.

Ref: Oh, OK. No penalty, carry on.

 

They then gave everybody in the field a trophy, and we all lived happily ever after,

[OffTheDole]

On the one hand, rules are rules, so once they're in place speak against them if you don't like them, but make sure you adhere to them. On the other, he certainly wasn't gaining any advantages by using an outdated book. In terms of the spirit of things I see no means by which this added to anyone's perception of the game as a whole nor did it do anything to benefit the air of play of the tournament so to speak. Pretty sad that Tringale would call an official over that way rather than simply speaking with him and clearing things up.

 

R20.1c says:

 

To protect the interests of all other players: If a player knows or believes that another player has breached or might have breached the Rules and that the other player does not recognize or is ignoring this, the player should tell the other player, the player’s marker, a referee or the Committee.

 

This should be done promptly after the player becomes aware of the issue, and no later than before the other player returns his or her scorecard unless it is not possible to do so.

 

If the player fails to do so, the Committee may disqualify the player under Rule 1.2a if it decides that this was serious misconduct contrary to the spirit of the game.

 

What is it you think Tringale did wrong? Do you think he could have whispered in his ear. "Hey, you better not use that book anymore." Do you know what the outcome would have been? How about two players disqualified. :)

 

Great point. As the rule states, Tringale could have ended up a very big loser in all of this by knowing and staying mum or helping Cejka out.

 

Also, this is way more straightforward than the Rashomon-like "was it backstopping?" incident from the LPGA last week. Cejka used what is essentially illegal equipment.

[Sawgrass]

On the one hand, rules are rules, so once they're in place speak against them if you don't like them, but make sure you adhere to them. On the other, he certainly wasn't gaining any advantages by using an outdated book. In terms of the spirit of things I see no means by which this added to anyone's perception of the game as a whole nor did it do anything to benefit the air of play of the tournament so to speak. Pretty sad that Tringale would call an official over that way rather than simply speaking with him and clearing things up.

 

R20.1c says:

 

To protect the interests of all other players: If a player knows or believes that another player has breached or might have breached the Rules and that the other player does not recognize or is ignoring this, the player should tell the other player, the player’s marker, a referee or the Committee.

 

This should be done promptly after the player becomes aware of the issue, and no later than before the other player returns his or her scorecard unless it is not possible to do so.

 

If the player fails to do so, the Committee may disqualify the player under Rule 1.2a if it decides that this was serious misconduct contrary to the spirit of the game.

 

What is it you think Tringale did wrong? Do you think he could have whispered in his ear. "Hey, you better not use that book anymore." Do you know what the outcome would have been? How about two players disqualified. :)

 

Great point. As the rule states, Tringale could have ended up a very big loser in all of this by knowing and staying mum or helping Cejka out.

 

Also, this is way more straightforward than the Rashomon-like backstopping incident from the LPGA last week. Cejka used what is essentially illegal equipment.

Just to be clear, another player may alert you that they saw you use illegal equipment and that if you use the illegal equipment a second time you will be DQ, it's not illegal to warn him, but it is illegal to conspire to hide the infraction.

[PedronNiall]

On the one hand, rules are rules, so once they're in place speak against them if you don't like them, but make sure you adhere to them. On the other, he certainly wasn't gaining any advantages by using an outdated book. In terms of the spirit of things I see no means by which this added to anyone's perception of the game as a whole nor did it do anything to benefit the air of play of the tournament so to speak. Pretty sad that Tringale would call an official over that way rather than simply speaking with him and clearing things up.

 

R20.1c says:

 

To protect the interests of all other players: If a player knows or believes that another player has breached or might have breached the Rules and that the other player does not recognize or is ignoring this, the player should tell the other player, the player’s marker, a referee or the Committee.

 

This should be done promptly after the player becomes aware of the issue, and no later than before the other player returns his or her scorecard unless it is not possible to do so.

 

If the player fails to do so, the Committee may disqualify the player under Rule 1.2a if it decides that this was serious misconduct contrary to the spirit of the game.

 

What is it you think Tringale did wrong? Do you think he could have whispered in his ear. "Hey, you better not use that book anymore." Do you know what the outcome would have been? How about two players disqualified. :)

 

"I saw it and told my caddie. I mentioned it to (Cejka) but was unfamiliar how exactly to proceed. I told the first official I saw what I had seen. I was perplexed. That doesn’t look right. Did I really see that? When we finished the 14th hole, I went to use the bathroom and when I came out I saw (Cejka) riding off in a cart." -Tringale

 

More detail would be nice, but it sounds like he told Cejka then proceeded to immediately contact an official. If Cejka continued using the book after Tringale talked to him no biggie, but it sounds as though right after saying something to him he went to an official. Anything technically wrong in that? No. It's interesting, however, that Tringale himself said that he was unfamiliar with how to proceed. Again, this just highlights a lot of what goes on. It feels like CYA came into play and Tringale ran to an official ASAP, which is pretty much the norm now. Everyone's worried about infractions so when in doubt run to an official. Cejka didn't know the rule and Tringale didn't know the rule when it came to how to proceed with pointing out the issue to his fellow competitor.

 

The rules allow me to point out to a competitor that he's made an infraction and to give him the chance to take appropriate action. Likely more details will come out, and if it's the case that Cejka continued to use the book after being spoken to about it I see no issue with the official being brought in. As I said technically there's no issue with the enforcement either, but clearly this wouldn't be such a hot issue already if it were cut and dry. Nothing about the situation seems to be a positive for the game for those looking in from the outside. As to my mention of what Tringale did, it seems against the spirit the game is supposed to espouse if Cejka wasn't given the chance to make amends himself, even if the only choice would have been for him to DQ himself.

[cardia10]

So was it just the scale of the green in the book? I think I would figure out how to use smaller fonts or bring a magnifying glass with me. The rules have been and are only getting sillier and makes casual golfers like me follow them even less.

[Sawgrass]

So was it just the scale of the green in the book? I think I would figure out how to use smaller fonts or bring a magnifying glass with me. The rules have been and are only getting sillier and makes casual golfers like me follow them even less.

You might be pleased to know that there is a prohibition against using magnification which one might want to do to circumvent the purpose of the scale rule. Or, maybe you'll just be frustrated by that as well and use that to further justify your not following the rules. In any case, here is a link to the current status of the rule, followed by the magnification excerpt:

 

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2018/10/usga-r-a-finalize-limits-on-green-reading-materials-in-golf.html

• No magnification of putting-green information is allowed other than a player’s normal wearing of prescription glasses or lenses.
  

[jdsuowner]

So can you print out a 4" x 6" sheet of paper draw a green on the entire sheet and make personal notes on it for slope etc? Is that legal?

[KevCarter]

So can you print out a 4" x 6" sheet of paper draw a green on the entire sheet and make personal notes on it for slope etc? Is that legal?

 

Putting Green Maps

 

The player is allowed to use a putting green map or other putting green information, except that:

• Any image of a putting green must be limited to a scale of 3/8 inch to 5 yards (1:480) or smaller (the “scale limit”);
  
• Any book or other paper containing a map or image of a putting green must not be larger than 4 ¼ inches x 7 inches (the “size limit”), although a “hole location sheet” that displays 9 or more holes on a single sheet of paper may be larger, provided that any image of a single putting green meets the scale limit;
  
• No magnification of putting green information is allowed other than a player’s normal wearing of prescription glasses or lenses;
  
• Hand drawn or written information about a putting green is only allowed if contained in a book or paper meeting the size limit and written by the player and/or his or her caddie.
  

[jdsuowner]

Thanks, what about a google maps view of a green that filled the entire 4"x6" sheet with written notes of that green?

[Augster]

On the one hand, rules are rules, so once they're in place speak against them if you don't like them, but make sure you adhere to them. On the other, he certainly wasn't gaining any advantages by using an outdated book. In terms of the spirit of things I see no means by which this added to anyone's perception of the game as a whole nor did it do anything to benefit the air of play of the tournament so to speak. Pretty sad that Tringale would call an official over that way rather than simply speaking with him and clearing things up.

 

R20.1c says:

 

To protect the interests of all other players: If a player knows or believes that another player has breached or might have breached the Rules and that the other player does not recognize or is ignoring this, the player should tell the other player, the player’s marker, a referee or the Committee.

 

This should be done promptly after the player becomes aware of the issue, and no later than before the other player returns his or her scorecard unless it is not possible to do so.

 

If the player fails to do so, the Committee may disqualify the player under Rule 1.2a if it decides that this was serious misconduct contrary to the spirit of the game.

 

What is it you think Tringale did wrong? Do you think he could have whispered in his ear. "Hey, you better not use that book anymore." Do you know what the outcome would have been? How about two players disqualified. :)

 

"I saw it and told my caddie. I mentioned it to (Cejka) but was unfamiliar how exactly to proceed. I told the first official I saw what I had seen. I was perplexed. That doesn’t look right. Did I really see that? When we finished the 14th hole, I went to use the bathroom and when I came out I saw (Cejka) riding off in a cart." -Tringale

 

More detail would be nice, but it sounds like he told Cejka then proceeded to immediately contact an official. If Cejka continued using the book after Tringale talked to him no biggie, but it sounds as though right after saying something to him he went to an official. Anything technically wrong in that? No. It's interesting, however, that Tringale himself said that he was unfamiliar with how to proceed. Again, this just highlights a lot of what goes on. It feels like CYA came into play and Tringale ran to an official ASAP, which is pretty much the norm now. Everyone's worried about infractions so when in doubt run to an official. Cejka didn't know the rule and Tringale didn't know the rule when it came to how to proceed with pointing out the issue to his fellow competitor.

 

The rules allow me to point out to a competitor that he's made an infraction and to give him the chance to take appropriate action. Likely more details will come out, and if it's the case that Cejka continued to use the book after being spoken to about it I see no issue with the official being brought in. As I said technically there's no issue with the enforcement either, but clearly this wouldn't be such a hot issue already if it were cut and dry. Nothing about the situation seems to be a positive for the game for those looking in from the outside. As to my mention of what Tringale did, it seems against the spirit the game is supposed to espouse if Cejka wasn't given the chance to make amends himself, even if the only choice would have been for him to DQ himself.

 

I really have no words for this take. I’ll try flabbergasted but that’s not it.

 

It was the 14TH hole! He’d already used the book 13 other times. If Tringale noticed it on the first, then yes, no need to bring an official in. Just tell Cejka his book isn’t legal, don’t use it again, and play on.

 

But it was the 14th. I bet Tringale wasn’t even watching Cejka closely, but then he unfolded the green paper like 3 times and has a topo map that nobody else uses, it probably stuck out.

 

All the official had to do was roll over, take a look at the book, and ask Cejka if he’d used it previously. When Cejka answers YES, he’s taking a ride back to the clubhouse.

 

No CYA by Tringale. He noticed a FC using what he thought might be an illegal book. He called over an official. He did what every FC should be expected to do in a stroke play comp.

[antip]

If they really felt green reading should be done with the eyes, and it's an essential skill, they should get rid of green books altogether. It's a rule that only affects high level guys. Nobody I know uses green books.

 

Simplify the rules. Get rid of green books altogether.

Couldn't agree more.

[Swisstrader98]

I saw the movie this past weekend

[farmer]

Rickie had a brain fart, Cejka hasn't read the new rules. Tringale did nothing wrong.

[mikpga]

Unfortunate...

 

[antip]

You're saying it should be okay to use the illegal book because it has wrong information? Exactly how should a ref come to that conclusion? Maybe by rolling a few balls?

 

If Cejka had only used the illegal book once, it would have been gentlemanly for someone to draw his attention to the violation then so he could cease using it, or confirm the information. Once Cejka had referred to it twice, he was DQ irrespective of the outcome of a discussion with anyone.

 

Players who violate rules, here's a choice of reasonable comments for you:

 

1) Crap, I knew that and I screwed up.

2) I didn't know that, please explain it to me.

3) I am such a stupid. (Old, I know, but still worthy of respect.)

 

Hey, I just came up with a new one. Fellow competitor asks you to mark your ball that is in the fringe. You clean it. A rules official wants to penalize you as he clearly saw you clean it.

 

Player: Hey, it got dirty as soon as I dropped it, so no advantage gained.

Ref: Oh, OK. No penalty, carry on.

 

They then gave everybody in the field a trophy, and we all lived happily ever after,

Ah, the joys of the rules. You lift as required and accidentally drop your ball and it runs into the PA unrecoverable. No problemo, just put a subbed ball down, no penalty. You accidentally drop your ball into fresh duck crap, that's a shame, you can't clean until you are on the putting green.