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Ridiculous Pace of Play Idea (tour only)


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I honestly don't understand why the general public is concerned with the pace of play on the PGA Tour.

 

because how the pros act and go about their business trickles down to all levels of golf. competitive amateurs in college or younger think its ok to take 3 minutes prior to a shot, or mark their putt and align their line to the hole from a foot and half.

 

 

of all the sports on tv i think golf is covered the absolute worst. last weeks coverage was awful. the producers are abusing the playing through segments by running non stop commericals followed then by the playing through garbage. neither fowler nor koepka final tee shot was covered. this is ridiculous. tv coverage has awful camera angles, unless you like the ball with the sky backdrop. i watch on dvr, and it seemed as soon as i ff to golf, i could barely set the remote down for 20 seconds before needing to ff again.

 

another member got it right. tiger is saving the ratings right now. if we get this same product when he's gone, i can't imagine what kid or new golfer tunes into golf if they can't even make it interesting for those who love the game.

 

Again... who cares what competitive players do on TV? Every one is an individual and guys are going to play slow no matter what they see on TV. If the tour thought it was a problem, they would have stopped it long ago.

 

I have juniors that play competitive golf. With my son, he has only ran into really slow players twice and he plays a lot of competitive golf.

 

The issue of slow play isn't with competitive golfers.

Televised golf is an entertainment product. For some people, it’s hard to watch the players with long or slow pre shot routines. Yeah you can get around some of that with production and direction but a lot of it still makes its way to the screen. There’s a reason why the NBA has to blare house music and sound effects during each possession. Theres a reason why MLB is looking seriously at a pitch clock. Attention spans are shorter and shorter with each passing year. Golf is trending in the wrong direction when it comes to the pace of their product and informed fans like us here at WRX certainly notice it even if it bothers some and doesn’t bother others.

 

So while I can understand some people not caring about pace of play on the tour, I think it’s disingenuous to not understand why others do care about it.

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how long is too long? for those that continue to say pace of play on the pga does not matter, how long should a player have to hit a shot? are you able to take a firm stance, or do you truly think it doesn't matter. could a player stand on the tee box deciding between a 6 or a 7 iron for 5 minutes? 10 minutes? longer? just curious if you don't think pace of play matters, or you just think at the current pace its not a problem. and if not a problem now, at what point do you think it becomes a problem?

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how long is too long? for those that continue to say pace of play on the pga does not matter, how long should a player have to hit a shot? are you able to take a firm stance, or do you truly think it doesn't matter. could a player stand on the tee box deciding between a 6 or a 7 iron for 5 minutes? 10 minutes? longer? just curious if you don't think pace of play matters, or you just think at the current pace its not a problem. and if not a problem now, at what point do you think it becomes a problem?

 

When they are on the clock, it's 60 seconds if you are the first to play. Otherwise, it's 40 seconds.

 

Those times sound about right.

 

So I'm also curious; how much time do you think they should have? 5 seconds? 10 seconds?

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how long is too long? for those that continue to say pace of play on the pga does not matter, how long should a player have to hit a shot? are you able to take a firm stance, or do you truly think it doesn't matter. could a player stand on the tee box deciding between a 6 or a 7 iron for 5 minutes? 10 minutes? longer? just curious if you don't think pace of play matters, or you just think at the current pace its not a problem. and if not a problem now, at what point do you think it becomes a problem?

 

I don't think it matters. Regular events are a TV show. I don't care if it takes 20 minutes for a guy to take his stance, as long as the production crew only shows me the 5 seconds before he takes a shot.

 

US Open / Open Championship - actual golf tournaments, not reality shows - I would enforce pace of play pretty aggressively.

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Would we even really know how slow the pros are if television production was better? Why do the directors have someone on that is having a 90 second discussion with his caddy about the pin position, the wind and the rest of it? If they would show more of the players in the field who are hitting shots, we would never know how long they take. Rather than watch Dechambau talk to his caddy, how about getting shots of someone hitting out of a bunker, someone holing a mid-range putt and then someone else hitting into a green. They don't all have to be among the leaders. Let us see the bad shots too. Unless there is a roar in the background, we would never know that what we are watching is delayed by 10 seconds so they can get the player taking a stance, hitting and seeing where the ball goes. I don't need to watch DJ walk around the green for a minute, or Speith talking to Greller for another minute. JB Holmes is not the only one who takes a long time. The 30+ minutes Speith took to make the drop in the driving range at the Open was ridiculous!

The real issue is the trickle-down effect that I have noticed in some, not all, of the high school players in the meets that are held at our course that think they need to do the same pre-shot routine as the pros. Not to mention the slow players that refuse to let faster groups through and have a 2 hole gap at the turn.

To fix it, if you think it needs to be fixed, someone earlier in this thread suggested keeping a year-long tally and fining the players after the year is over. I would agree with the exception that the penalty should be loss of FedEx pints before the playoffs begin. The loss of FedEx points might (might) speed some of them up.

How to play golf.
Hit the ball.
Find the ball
Repeat until the ball is in the hole.
Have fun.
...Chuck Hogan

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how long is too long? for those that continue to say pace of play on the pga does not matter, how long should a player have to hit a shot? are you able to take a firm stance, or do you truly think it doesn't matter. could a player stand on the tee box deciding between a 6 or a 7 iron for 5 minutes? 10 minutes? longer? just curious if you don't think pace of play matters, or you just think at the current pace its not a problem. and if not a problem now, at what point do you think it becomes a problem?

 

When they are on the clock, it's 60 seconds if you are the first to play. Otherwise, it's 40 seconds.

 

Those times sound about right.

 

So I'm also curious; how much time do you think they should have? 5 seconds? 10 seconds?

 

yes i know what the rules state. sorry, i should've clarified, but the rules aren't being enforced while others have posted suggesting the pace of play does not matter on the pga tour. i'm good with the current rules if they were actually enforced. we can't put groups on the clock. its unfair for the guys stuck with slow players. have more rules officials and hold slow players accountable by penalizing them with actual shots.

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Would we even really know how slow the pros are if television production was better? Why do the directors have someone on that is having a 90 second discussion with his caddy about the pin position, the wind and the rest of it? If they would show more of the players in the field who are hitting shots, we would never know how long they take. Rather than watch Dechambau talk to his caddy, how about getting shots of someone hitting out of a bunker, someone holing a mid-range putt and then someone else hitting into a green. They don't all have to be among the leaders. Let us see the bad shots too. Unless there is a roar in the background, we would never know that what we are watching is delayed by 10 seconds so they can get the player taking a stance, hitting and seeing where the ball goes. I don't need to watch DJ walk around the green for a minute, or Speith talking to Greller for another minute. JB Holmes is not the only one who takes a long time. The 30+ minutes Speith took to make the drop in the driving range at the Open was ridiculous!

The real issue is the trickle-down effect that I have noticed in some, not all, of the high school players in the meets that are held at our course that think they need to do the same pre-shot routine as the pros. Not to mention the slow players that refuse to let faster groups through and have a 2 hole gap at the turn.

To fix it, if you think it needs to be fixed, someone earlier in this thread suggested keeping a year-long tally and fining the players after the year is over. I would agree with the exception that the penalty should be loss of FedEx pints before the playoffs begin. The loss of FedEx points might (might) speed some of them up.

 

i think the majority here would argue they enjoy or prefer to hear the player / caddy discussions.

 

but its a tough ask to have the production team become psychic and know exactly when a player is ready to hit. we see how many times we think a player is ready and then back off, or remark and look at their line a third time, or change clubs, etc.

 

personally, i think part of the game should involve playing within a certain time. we don't allow a qb in nfl to sit behind the line of scrimmage reading a defense until they are absolutely ready, we don't let teams in basketball pass the ball around until they feel ready to shoot, ....

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but its a tough ask to have the production team become psychic and know exactly when a player is ready to hit. we see how many times we think a player is ready and then back off, or remark and look at their line a third time, or change clubs, etc.

 

It's basically the easiest thing in all of television; if they ran it with a ten second delay you could pretty easily move from player-to-player-to-player making their shot. If I'm home in my living room, I don't have any sense for what time it actually is on the golf course.

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Would we even really know how slow the pros are if television production was better? Why do the directors have someone on that is having a 90 second discussion with his caddy about the pin position, the wind and the rest of it? If they would show more of the players in the field who are hitting shots, we would never know how long they take. Rather than watch Dechambau talk to his caddy, how about getting shots of someone hitting out of a bunker, someone holing a mid-range putt and then someone else hitting into a green. They don't all have to be among the leaders. Let us see the bad shots too. Unless there is a roar in the background, we would never know that what we are watching is delayed by 10 seconds so they can get the player taking a stance, hitting and seeing where the ball goes. I don't need to watch DJ walk around the green for a minute, or Speith talking to Greller for another minute. JB Holmes is not the only one who takes a long time. The 30+ minutes Speith took to make the drop in the driving range at the Open was ridiculous!

The real issue is the trickle-down effect that I have noticed in some, not all, of the high school players in the meets that are held at our course that think they need to do the same pre-shot routine as the pros. Not to mention the slow players that refuse to let faster groups through and have a 2 hole gap at the turn.

To fix it, if you think it needs to be fixed, someone earlier in this thread suggested keeping a year-long tally and fining the players after the year is over. I would agree with the exception that the penalty should be loss of FedEx pints before the playoffs begin. The loss of FedEx points might (might) speed some of them up.

 

I think just gathering the data and making it public would be enough. Right now no one measures pace of play by individual player. If it was known how much worse one player is than another I think they would speed up. It doesn't seem like a list you really want to be low on.

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but its a tough ask to have the production team become psychic and know exactly when a player is ready to hit. we see how many times we think a player is ready and then back off, or remark and look at their line a third time, or change clubs, etc.

 

It's basically the easiest thing in all of television; if they ran it with a ten second delay you could pretty easily move from player-to-player-to-player making their shot. If I'm home in my living room, I don't have any sense for what time it actually is on the golf course.

 

Agreed

How to play golf.
Hit the ball.
Find the ball
Repeat until the ball is in the hole.
Have fun.
...Chuck Hogan

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Give the caddies rangefinders so we don't have to watch them do math to find a layup number. Most importantly, take away the green reading books. They shouldn't be allowed to have them to begin with and it'll speed up play. Right now they read the green, then look at the book, then read the green again and look at the book again.

 

They're still gonna be slow but they really need to reduce the time the players spend trying to figure it out.

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The real issue is the trickle-down effect that I have noticed in some, not all, of the high school players in the meets that are held at our course that think they need to do the same pre-shot routine as the pros. Not to mention the slow players that refuse to let faster groups through and have a 2 hole gap at the turn.

 

 

There is zero "trickle-down effect". Golf is no slower today than it was 60 years ago when I started.

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how long is too long? for those that continue to say pace of play on the pga does not matter, how long should a player have to hit a shot? are you able to take a firm stance, or do you truly think it doesn't matter. could a player stand on the tee box deciding between a 6 or a 7 iron for 5 minutes? 10 minutes? longer? just curious if you don't think pace of play matters, or you just think at the current pace its not a problem. and if not a problem now, at what point do you think it becomes a problem?

 

When they are on the clock, it's 60 seconds if you are the first to play. Otherwise, it's 40 seconds.

 

Those times sound about right.

 

So I'm also curious; how much time do you think they should have? 5 seconds? 10 seconds?

 

yes i know what the rules state. sorry, i should've clarified, but the rules aren't being enforced ....

 

Do you have any facts to support that opinion?

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The real issue is the trickle-down effect that I have noticed in some, not all, of the high school players in the meets that are held at our course that think they need to do the same pre-shot routine as the pros. Not to mention the slow players that refuse to let faster groups through and have a 2 hole gap at the turn.

 

 

There is zero "trickle-down effect". Golf is no slower today than it was 60 years ago when I started.

It is definitely slower than when I started 55 years ago. We played 9 holes in less than 2 hours every time.

How to play golf.
Hit the ball.
Find the ball
Repeat until the ball is in the hole.
Have fun.
...Chuck Hogan

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"YOU CAN ONLY PLAY AS FAST AS THE GROUP IN FRONT OF YOU" is the mantra of the Tours...

 

I've had the privilege of playing in 3 PGA Tour events and 5 Web.com's and got put on the clock twice because of a Monday Q mini-tour "want-a-be" that went over every little possible detail before he pulled a club and then had a 50 point swing check list before he pulled the trigger. He was the reason my group got put on the clock, but when we were being timed, I'm the one who was within seconds of being fined $5K for a bad time. It sucks and nobody ever wants to be in the position.

 

Pace of play will NEVER change until two things happen...

 

1. The fine changes from $$$ to stroke penalties. Tour players will gladly hand over $5K or whatever the level of $ infraction is if it means they have a better chance of finishing 1 stroke better in an event.

2. The governing bodies actually enforce pace of play policies. I know most of the rules officials on the Web.com and I believe they do a fantastic job. PGA Tour... not so much.

 

The idea of the shot clock on last year's European Tour event was AWESOME. I remember during the course of the week only 1 players had a bad time and was penalized 1 shot. I think they had 1 time out they could call during each round. Average round times was 4:20ish for a 3-some of tour players!!!

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but its a tough ask to have the production team become psychic and know exactly when a player is ready to hit. we see how many times we think a player is ready and then back off, or remark and look at their line a third time, or change clubs, etc.

 

It's basically the easiest thing in all of television; if they ran it with a ten second delay you could pretty easily move from player-to-player-to-player making their shot. If I'm home in my living room, I don't have any sense for what time it actually is on the golf course.

 

I’ve always thought when they play up how tough a shot is and the player pulls it off, they added the comments to a tape of the player pulling the shot off. There’s no way every shot is “live”

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how long is too long? for those that continue to say pace of play on the pga does not matter, how long should a player have to hit a shot? are you able to take a firm stance, or do you truly think it doesn't matter. could a player stand on the tee box deciding between a 6 or a 7 iron for 5 minutes? 10 minutes? longer? just curious if you don't think pace of play matters, or you just think at the current pace its not a problem. and if not a problem now, at what point do you think it becomes a problem?

 

I don't think it matters. Regular events are a TV show. I don't care if it takes 20 minutes for a guy to take his stance, as long as the production crew only shows me the 5 seconds before he takes a shot.

 

US Open / Open Championship - actual golf tournaments, not reality shows - I would enforce pace of play pretty aggressively.

 

So when they are down to two or three groups you are ok with waiting a couple of minutes between every shot, yeah right

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how long is too long? for those that continue to say pace of play on the pga does not matter, how long should a player have to hit a shot? are you able to take a firm stance, or do you truly think it doesn't matter. could a player stand on the tee box deciding between a 6 or a 7 iron for 5 minutes? 10 minutes? longer? just curious if you don't think pace of play matters, or you just think at the current pace its not a problem. and if not a problem now, at what point do you think it becomes a problem?

 

I don't think it matters. Regular events are a TV show. I don't care if it takes 20 minutes for a guy to take his stance, as long as the production crew only shows me the 5 seconds before he takes a shot.

 

US Open / Open Championship - actual golf tournaments, not reality shows - I would enforce pace of play pretty aggressively.

 

So when they are down to two or three groups you are ok with waiting a couple of minutes between every shot, yeah right

 

I think I am. Those groups are presumably the final groups who are in contention. No different than the last three minutes of an NBA basketball game that takes an hour.

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I honestly don't understand why the general public is concerned with the pace of play on the PGA Tour.

 

because how the pros act and go about their business trickles down to all levels of golf. competitive amateurs in college or younger think its ok to take 3 minutes prior to a shot, or mark their putt and align their line to the hole from a foot and half.

 

 

of all the sports on tv i think golf is covered the absolute worst. last weeks coverage was awful. the producers are abusing the playing through segments by running non stop commericals followed then by the playing through garbage. neither fowler nor koepka final tee shot was covered. this is ridiculous. tv coverage has awful camera angles, unless you like the ball with the sky backdrop. i watch on dvr, and it seemed as soon as i ff to golf, i could barely set the remote down for 20 seconds before needing to ff again.

 

another member got it right. tiger is saving the ratings right now. if we get this same product when he's gone, i can't imagine what kid or new golfer tunes into golf if they can't even make it interesting for those who love the game.

 

Again... who cares what competitive players do on TV? Every one is an individual and guys are going to play slow no matter what they see on TV. If the tour thought it was a problem, they would have stopped it long ago.

 

I have juniors that play competitive golf. With my son, he has only ran into really slow players twice and he plays a lot of competitive golf.

 

The issue of slow play isn't with competitive golfers.

I have a friend that works at club here in the desert that had a college tourney last week

He said the rounds took 7 hours to play, they were foursomes but just took forever. He said it is always the college players, high school plays there all the time and they do not have any issues He said college golfers are the worse, no one cares or monitors them

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