USGA PR team to Justin Thomas: "We need to talk"

[b.helts]

good grief.... so now the 2nd tweet is a lie? wow

 

Come on bh. You know PR isn’t about truth. It’s about perception.

 

Nobody should be taking the USGA’s PR Twitter account as a source for truth.

[ALIF]

USGA just go away!

[Bingo1976]

In 2015, the USGA reported just over $200,000,000 in revenue. Of that 200 million, 140 million came in revenue from "Championships, including broadcast". I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the vast majority of the revenue comes from the US Open. I'm going to guess that they aren't raking in millions from the U.S. amateur four ball. So if they want to keep making their $500k salaries for doing nothing than I would think it would be in their best interests to not piss off their cash cows, the PGA tour players.

 

Without the US Open the USGA is essentially a worthless organization. I mean Mike Davis makes over 2 million a year. They have 12 other executives listed that all make between $250k - $500k a year. That can buy a boat load of martini's, just ask Diana Murphy.

 

Seriously what a racket. An organization that puts on a dozen golf tournaments a year, runs a mobile app that tracks handicaps and is in charge of the rules for a damn game is sitting on over $400,000,000 in liquid assets and pays their executives crazy sums of money. They fact that any individual would donate any of their hard earned money to them boggles my mind.

 

Long story short, I think the USGA would probably be better off not being so arrogant and condescending and just keep cashing those checks.

 

I'm just going to sit back and enjoy this post for a while. Should garner some interesting responses. I'm not evening knocking the USGA for going out and getting that money - capitalism at its finest. I do, however, think you make a good point about where their revenue comes from.

 

Yes, the USGA is a non-profit charitable organization under Section 501©(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. Monetary donations to the USGA are tax-deductible as long as no goods or services are provided in exchange for tax-deductible contributions.

[GeorgeHWB]

Thomas and Fowler just look silly with the whining and frankly, come off pretty spoiled and "entitled". Just leveraging their own perceptions of their popularity and getting in their licks.

 

The rules are so hard (excuse us we haven't bothered to read or learn them even though they govern our sport), wah, wah.

 

Having said that, someone at the USGA looking about as dumb as Ted Bishop taking after Poulter a few years ago.

 

Even the USGA apparently has to learn that when you are mostly on the right side of the issue (at least with these two) it is still a good idea to stick to the high ground.

 

Sorry Hawk but I'm still laughing at Rickie threatening to crap that ball back in play.

 

 

This is what I don't get. There is absolutely nothing funny about this. It's as classless and disrespectful as it gets.

 

And surely not a one of us on here would have thought it was funny if our son had done this playing in a junior tournament. I know I would have yanked my son's a** off the course if he had done this and my dad would have done the same to me.

 

Who are you? Joe Buck?

 

 

 

[mukster]

As always, the truth finally reveals itself, which makes going back and reading some posts here so much more hilarious

:)

[MattyO1984]

The USGA is mind boggling, as if their yearly c0ck up of the US Open was not enough for them when it comes to bad publicity, they then go and do this.

 

Don't get me wrong, as it comes to the rules, I think the changes that they have tried to make with the R&A seemed reasonably when written down on paper. In practical terms that hasn't borne out to be true. JT is pointing it out. Could he have done it in a different fashion, sure but why should he. He is a product of his generation and social media has given his generation an ability to be heard without the need to use the press or contacts or back channels. They are simply able to get out there and tell everyone what they think and that is a good thing.

 

The difference between JT's tweets and the USGA tweet is that JT was expressing an opinion and the USGA were essentially trying to make false statements come across as fact. That the USGA cannot get it's house in order when it comes to twitter really makes you realise that it is no wonder that they cannot put on a golf tournament without looking like a laughing stock. Got to believe that JT's agency/lawyer was in contact with the USGA to point out their defamatory tweet and that resulted in the swift change of their tune and I would not be surprised if there was a donation being made to JT's charity/foundation of choice to show just how sorry they were.

[JohnnyCashForever]

If they wanted support they need to make the process truly open and transparent and over communicate the heck out of it. This is done by working closely with a broad spectrum of people whom not only love the game but make their living playing the game, which should naturally include tour pros past or present. This smells like they rewrote this largely as they wanted and input was perhaps window dressing. BTW I generally am supportive of the changes, but have suspicions about the method.

 

Honestly, I can't imagine how they could have made the process more open and transparent. They wrote drafts, circulated them more than a year in advance, asked for feedback from everybody. And they did change some things in between. IIRC, the original "drop" re-write allowed a drop from any height, which was then changed (based on feedback) to this silly knee-high scenario. I think the flagstick thing also changed a little from draft to implementation.

 

I don't think even Golf Channel would have put the Committee discussions on the air; but I'm not sure how they could have been more transparent.

 

Everyone in the corporate world knows faux transparency when they see it. Faux transparency is when you circulate your intentions and drafts a year in advance and you solicit everyone's opinion via an online feedback mechanism. Then you pay zero attention to the feedback that is contrary to what you want to do, dismissing it as the bluster of cranks and know-nothings. Then you do what you want to do, and crow about how transparently and fairly you did it. And, to their credit, people that master the art of this process generally a) do what they want, and b) get paid millions for doing it. The USGA's role in rules-making is a tiny, almost insignificant element of what the organization has become. It is a vehicle for inordinately large compensation and retirement packages for a small group of people and their board-level enablers. Someone splain to me how the head of the USGA should make more money than the CEO of a top children's hospital. Because, you know, running a golf tournament and making some rules is high order bidness.

 

Somebody tell me I'm wrong, with the backdrop and context of the last 30 years of their actions.

 

I wish I could up-vote this post more than once.

 

The USGA apologists are strangely silent. You must have hit a nerve. Bravo!

[bladehunter]

The USGA is mind boggling, as if their yearly c0ck up of the US Open was not enough for them when it comes to bad publicity, they then go and do this.

 

Don't get me wrong, as it comes to the rules, I think the changes that they have tried to make with the R&A seemed reasonably when written down on paper. In practical terms that hasn't borne out to be true. JT is pointing it out. Could he have done it in a different fashion, sure but why should he. He is a product of his generation and social media has given his generation an ability to be heard without the need to use the press or contacts or back channels. They are simply able to get out there and tell everyone what they think and that is a good thing.

 

The difference between JT's tweets and the USGA tweet is that JT was expressing an opinion and the USGA were essentially trying to make false statements come across as fact. That the USGA cannot get it's house in order when it comes to twitter really makes you realise that it is no wonder that they cannot put on a golf tournament without looking like a laughing stock. Got to believe that JT's agency/lawyer was in contact with the USGA to point out their defamatory tweet and that resulted in the swift change of their tune and I would not be surprised if there was a donation being made to JT's charity/foundation of choice to show just how sorry they were.

 

This ^ is exactly what happened. Someone dropped a dime on them and let them know what time it is. Like I said from day 1 of this crap storm. That tweet was really close to Libelous.

 

You're dealing with reputations , sponsors etc. calling a Guys use of the truth into question , you need to have some facts to back it up with.

[Swisstrader98]

As always, the truth finally reveals itself, which makes going back and reading some posts here so much more hilarious

:)

 

And so interesting how so many of the vocal proponents of the USGA on these threads have gone radio silent since the news broke about the USGA tweets.

 

Crickets ?

[imakaveli]

It’s incredible... just when you think USGA can’t do any worse... they surprise us.

[josh21120]

The USGA is mind boggling, as if their yearly c0ck up of the US Open was not enough for them when it comes to bad publicity, they then go and do this.

 

Don't get me wrong, as it comes to the rules, I think the changes that they have tried to make with the R&A seemed reasonably when written down on paper. In practical terms that hasn't borne out to be true. JT is pointing it out. Could he have done it in a different fashion, sure but why should he. He is a product of his generation and social media has given his generation an ability to be heard without the need to use the press or contacts or back channels. They are simply able to get out there and tell everyone what they think and that is a good thing.

 

The difference between JT's tweets and the USGA tweet is that JT was expressing an opinion and the USGA were essentially trying to make false statements come across as fact. That the USGA cannot get it's house in order when it comes to twitter really makes you realise that it is no wonder that they cannot put on a golf tournament without looking like a laughing stock. Got to believe that JT's agency/lawyer was in contact with the USGA to point out their defamatory tweet and that resulted in the swift change of their tune and I would not be surprised if there was a donation being made to JT's charity/foundation of choice to show just how sorry they were.

 

Good post. Plausible. This rule-change pushback is largely a result of the ongoing arrogant attitude by the USGA (IMO). The repeated US Open course snafus, and the ridiculous rulings/interpretations in recent years, just promote their poor image. They have an absence of self-awareness, or worse, don’t care. Need to re-boot.

[davep043]

This might be the thing that drives the PGA Tour away from the USGA and to their own set of modified rules.

 

https://twitter.com/...s-golf-pushback

 

Does this sound like the PGA is going away from the USGA ?

 

Or do you believe this is akin to a "vote of confidence" from a baseball owner about his manager ?

I think this is an adult representative of the PGA Tour telling the juveniles that they're wrong, that the PGA Tour was involved with the rules revision all along, that the ruleing bodies DID listen to the PGA Tours suggestions. He;s telling the boys who complain about lack of communication that there has been plenty of communication, and there will continue to be. Maybe the players won't like it, maybe they'll vote Monahan out, but he's doing his job, even if he is a little late to the party.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, as it comes to the rules, I think the changes that they have tried to make with the R&A seemed reasonably when written down on paper. In practical terms that hasn't borne out to be true. JT is pointing it out. Could he have done it in a different fashion, sure but why should he. He is a product of his generation and social media has given his generation an ability to be heard without the need to use the press or contacts or back channels. They are simply able to get out there and tell everyone what they think and that is a good thing.

 

The problem with JT and some of the others is that they have had plenty of time to learn the rules, plenty of time to meet both with USGA officials and with their own PGA Tour rules officials, and they apparently have done none of that. JT claims he's all about the good of the game, can anyone look at comments like "They're all terrible" as being constructive, good for the game? Can Rickie really look at his ball-drop parody and claim that the look he presented is "good for the game"? I could see if they had said "I don't believe we need to limit the roll-out of a dropped ball, that's why I don't like the knee-high drop". But no, they don't like it because its a change, and because it "looks silly". I've said it numerous times. Its perfectly fair to disagree with the purpose of the rules, or the method of achieving that purpose. But to do that, you really need to educate yourself first. Popping off in 100 characters isn't ever going to be constructive.

[deadsolid...shank]

This might be the thing that drives the PGA Tour away from the USGA and to their own set of modified rules.

 

https://twitter.com/...s-golf-pushback

 

Does this sound like the PGA is going away from the USGA ?

 

Or do you believe this is akin to a "vote of confidence" from a baseball owner about his manager ?

I think this is an adult representative of the PGA Tour telling the juveniles that they're wrong, that the PGA Tour was involved with the rules revision all along, that the ruleing bodies DID listen to the PGA Tours suggestions. He;s telling the boys who complain about lack of communication that there has been plenty of communication, and there will continue to be. Maybe the players won't like it, maybe they'll vote Monahan out, but he's doing his job, even if he is a little late to the party.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, as it comes to the rules, I think the changes that they have tried to make with the R&A seemed reasonably when written down on paper. In practical terms that hasn't borne out to be true. JT is pointing it out. Could he have done it in a different fashion, sure but why should he. He is a product of his generation and social media has given his generation an ability to be heard without the need to use the press or contacts or back channels. They are simply able to get out there and tell everyone what they think and that is a good thing.

 

The problem with JT and some of the others is that they have had plenty of time to learn the rules, plenty of time to meet both with USGA officials and with their own PGA Tour rules officials, and they apparently have done none of that. JT claims he's all about the good of the game, can anyone look at comments like "They're all terrible" as being constructive, good for the game? Can Rickie really look at his ball-drop parody and claim that the look he presented is "good for the game"? I could see if they had said "I don't believe we need to limit the roll-out of a dropped ball, that's why I don't like the knee-high drop". But no, they don't like it because its a change, and because it "looks silly". I've said it numerous times. Its perfectly fair to disagree with the purpose of the rules, or the method of achieving that purpose. But to do that, you really need to educate yourself first. Popping off in 100 characters isn't ever going to be constructive.

 

Generational there I think Dave. Your approach sounds like the one someone from our generation would take. This generation does it differently though. So many avenues to voice your opinion instantaneously. This is a really bad generalization, but we’re not a “think first, speak second” society anymore.

 

If someone has an opinion on anything, there is a venue to get it out there right now. Don’t have to wait for a reporter to ask after a round, or a press conference anymore.

[ClintDagger]

As always, the truth finally reveals itself, which makes going back and reading some posts here so much more hilarious

:)

 

And so interesting how so many of the vocal proponents of the USGA on these threads have gone radio silent since the news broke about the USGA tweets.

 

Crickets ?

I’m one that happens to believe the original tweet probably had a lot of truth to it, and the USGA in losing the PR battle retreated. But what more is there to say about it? Whoever tweeted from the USGA PR account will never tell their side of the story because I’m sure they got admonished for stirring this all up. So we’ll never really know how this all went down. I don’t think it’s crickets as much as there’s just not much left to comment on. People are going to look at this situation and come away with different opinions on what really happened. Nothing wrong with that and no reason for either side to take it personal. In the end, both sides of this (players / USGA) are just about equally in the wrong when you look at the big picture.

[bladehunter]

As always, the truth finally reveals itself, which makes going back and reading some posts here so much more hilarious

:)

 

And so interesting how so many of the vocal proponents of the USGA on these threads have gone radio silent since the news broke about the USGA tweets.

 

Crickets ?

I’m one that happens to believe the original tweet probably had a lot of truth to it, and the USGA in losing the PR battle retreated. But what more is there to say about it? Whoever tweeted from the USGA PR account will never tell their side of the story because I’m sure they got admonished for stirring this all up. So we’ll never really know how this all went down. I don’t think it’s crickets as much as there’s just not much left to comment on. People are going to look at this situation and come away with different opinions on what really happened. Nothing wrong with that and no reason for either side to take it personal. In the end, both sides of this (players / USGA) are just about equally in the wrong when you look at the big picture.

 

What is your opinion based on ?

 

I’m all for you’re right to opinion. I’ve just thought hard on it and can’t come up with any evidence to get me to your opinion.

 

And yet with JTs comment I can get there quick. He said “ communication “ was needed. I think the largest issue here is that’s being taken literally. I’m positive he means true dialogue. Not a meeting to be setup. He’s saying “ you guys aren’t listening to us “. Whether you agree that his opinion is correct or not is beside the point. He’s not wrong in pointing out the dictator style approach the USga takes. That’s hard to deny. The tweet they sent first and the one they sent now illustrates that perfectly. They make up a narrative to confront him with. Missing his point entirely , now they walk it back because they had to and deliver a no admission of guilt retraction. That’s the type thing we see from untouchable billionaire types.

 

Funny thing is to me. They still do not get it. lol.

[sheppy335]

I dont like jt, as i said he is crazy talented. He did what his generation thinks is right. Are the rules wonky? Darn tooting.

What is sad the USGA stooped lower then JT, they actually made me like him a little more at least he isnt lying. They did and should punish the person who did that injustice.

[North Texas]

Got to agree with Rex Hoggard who says it's time for the grown-ups to talk. Rory with some good takes in the article. I also liked Jay Monahan stepping up to the table.

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/ongoing-rules-golf-spat-between-pga-tour-players-and-usga-its-time-grown-ups-talk

[cardoustie]

is it possible the "drunk" lady lady that couldn't say the winners name at the US Open has been turned loose on social media? Or did that former PGA of America CEO hijack the account?

[NPVWhiz]

I just have one thought about the PGA Tour and its interest in the rules. It would seem to me that their primary concern in today’s environment would be that the risk of a wacky rules violation messing up the betting scene is minimized or better yet eliminated. The tour’s interests in the rules are narrow and have no connection to the history of the game.

 

They don’t want the future betting crowd to be angry over some “rules technicality”. If a player makes the under but the final score gets blown up due to a stupid rules thing, why that would just mess everything up.

[bladehunter]

Got to agree with Rex Hoggard who says it's time for the grown-ups to talk. Rory with some good takes in the article. I also liked Jay Monahan stepping up to the table.

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/ongoing-rules-golf-spat-between-pga-tour-players-and-usga-its-time-grown-ups-talk

 

Rory is a “ grown up “? Lol. Hasn’t he been in litigation with other players and almost every sponsor or agent he’s ever had ?

[bscinstnct]

Meantime, back at USGA HQ.....

 

 

Man, we are getting killed out there.

 

Yeah, I told you not to put the Dell Dude in charge of our Tweeter account.

 

So, what do we do now?

 

Hey, I know!

 

[davep043]

Got to agree with Rex Hoggard who says it's time for the grown-ups to talk. Rory with some good takes in the article. I also liked Jay Monahan stepping up to the table.

 

https://www.golfchan...-grown-ups-talk

I liked that Monahan spoke up, even if he was a bit later than I think he should have been. He basically said that when you pop off on the rules, you're popping off at the PGA Tour too, because the PGA Tour was deeply involved in the revision of the rules.

The first step forward came in the form of Monahan’s memo. It’s important for players to understand that the USGA and R&A no longer make these decisions in a bubble. The PGA Tour and the European Tour now have a permanent seat at the rule-making table, and their voices were heard throughout this most recent makeover of the rule book.

“During this process, we put forward a lengthy list of recommendations to improve the rules in many ways, including the removal of numerous penalties, and virtually all our suggestions were incorporated,” Monahan wrote. “We also had the opportunity to provide feedback on the proposed rules prior to implementation, which resulted in modifications for the final version.”

I don't know who represented the PGA Tour through the process, perhaps a team headed by Slugger White, the head of rules enforcement for the Tour? Seems reasonably likely to me. He seems a pretty well-liked and respected face of rules enforcement by all sides. When JT and Rickie tweet about how stupid the rules are, when Rickie does his pantomime for the TV cameras, did they think they were hammering Slugger along with the USGA? I think they need to take a good look in the mirror, lots of the rules came from their own organization.

 

 

And yet with JTs comment I can get there quick. He said " communication " was needed. I think the largest issue here is that's being taken literally. I'm positive he means true dialogue. Not a meeting to be setup. He's saying " you guys aren't listening to us ".

In my view, JT has said "You're not listening to ME". Again, taking JT at his word, he backed out of a conference call, told the USGA "I'm busy for the next 3 weeks, I won't have any time to talk with you about these rules". Two weeks into his self-imposed communication ban, he tweets that the USGA needs to "start communicating". It is completely unfair and inappropriate to complain when it was his own choice to forego any communications.

[bladehunter]

I’d say plenty of correspondence has/had had occurred. I’m sure in a one sided manner. And maybe that’s how it has to be ? But I do see why JT wouldn’t want to engage in any further one sided talks during a work week. Bad for the mindset. But I’m not sure how we’re still leaping to a canceled anything. The USga asking for a conference call and JT saying not now isn’t canceling. It’s postponing . Semantics ? Maybe. But words mattter when calling someone out.

 

USga would have been best served by releasing this “ we’re contacting JT now to discuss his grievances in private , we’re aware of his concerns and value his imput “. That give at least the appearance of giving a poop and is technically “ communication “. Easy peasy . Hands clean. Their ego got in the way of that.

 

As for the pga having a seat at the table. ? Lol. I’m sure they did. As spectators , much like Mikes moments of enlightenment on the range at pebble ... I’d pay $ for the minutes of those meetings. It would bust this wide open I’m sure.

[davep043]

I'd say plenty of correspondence has/had had occurred. I'm sure in a one sided manner. And maybe that's how it has to be ? But I do see why JT wouldn't want to engage in any further one sided talks during a work week. Bad for the mindset. But I'm not sure how we're still leaping to a canceled anything. The USga asking for a conference call and JT saying not now isn't canceling. It's postponing . Semantics ? Maybe. But words mattter when calling someone out.

 

USga would have been best served by releasing this " we're contacting JT now to discuss his grievances in private , we're aware of his concerns and value his imput ". That give at least the appearance of giving a poop and is technically " communication ". Easy peasy . Hands clean. Their ego got in the way of that.

 

As for the pga having a seat at the table. ? Lol. I'm sure they did. As spectators , much like Mikes moments of enlightenment on the range at pebble ... I'd pay $ for the minutes of those meetings. It would bust this wide open I'm sure.

Words matter when you've chosen to cut off communication, then say that THEY need to "start communicating". It works both ways, and I still believe that the real truth is somewhere in the middle. I'm not claiming that the USGA handled it well, but perhaps using Twitter was a last resort to get a hold of someone who has said "don't call me this week".

 

And now you're saying Monahan's statements, Slumbers's statement, and Thomas Bjorn's, are lies? I know you always believe the worst about the USGA, but you seem to respect the others. I'll quote it again, you're saying this is a lie.

“During this process, we put forward a lengthy list of recommendations to improve the rules in many ways, including the removal of numerous penalties, and virtually all our suggestions were incorporated,” Monahan wrote

[deadsolid...shank]

I'd say plenty of correspondence has/had had occurred. I'm sure in a one sided manner. And maybe that's how it has to be ? But I do see why JT wouldn't want to engage in any further one sided talks during a work week. Bad for the mindset. But I'm not sure how we're still leaping to a canceled anything. The USga asking for a conference call and JT saying not now isn't canceling. It's postponing . Semantics ? Maybe. But words mattter when calling someone out.

 

USga would have been best served by releasing this " we're contacting JT now to discuss his grievances in private , we're aware of his concerns and value his imput ". That give at least the appearance of giving a poop and is technically " communication ". Easy peasy . Hands clean. Their ego got in the way of that.

 

As for the pga having a seat at the table. ? Lol. I'm sure they did. As spectators , much like Mikes moments of enlightenment on the range at pebble ... I'd pay $ for the minutes of those meetings. It would bust this wide open I'm sure.

Words matter when you've chosen to cut off communication, then say that THEY need to "start communicating". It works both ways, and I still believe that the real truth is somewhere in the middle. I'm not claiming that the USGA handled it well, but perhaps using Twitter was a last resort to get a hold of someone who has said "don't call me this week".

 

And now you're saying Monahan's statements, Slumbers's statement, and Thomas Bjorn's, are lies? I know you always believe the worst about the USGA, but you seem to respect the others. I'll quote it again, you're saying this is a lie.

“During this process, we put forward a lengthy list of recommendations to improve the rules in many ways, including the removal of numerous penalties, and virtually all our suggestions were incorporated,” Monahan wrote

 

Sorry Dave, but I disagree here. Using Monahan’s statement about the rules doesn’t excuse the USGA blantanly fabricating facts.

 

This has now moved onto another level from the initial rules issues, which Monohan’s statement was in regard to, to a very real question of the USGA’s credibility, and even integrity. When you come out and admit you lied, your reputation takes a massive hit. For the life of me I can’t imagine why they made that statement, leave it a “he said, she said” situation and let it die, which it will. Probably sooner than later.

 

Damon Hack asked a very pertinent question this morning, “who’se running the ship over there”. How does an entity of this position let something like this happen

[ebrasmus21]

I'd say plenty of correspondence has/had had occurred. I'm sure in a one sided manner. And maybe that's how it has to be ? But I do see why JT wouldn't want to engage in any further one sided talks during a work week. Bad for the mindset. But I'm not sure how we're still leaping to a canceled anything. The USga asking for a conference call and JT saying not now isn't canceling. It's postponing . Semantics ? Maybe. But words mattter when calling someone out.

 

USga would have been best served by releasing this " we're contacting JT now to discuss his grievances in private , we're aware of his concerns and value his imput ". That give at least the appearance of giving a poop and is technically " communication ". Easy peasy . Hands clean. Their ego got in the way of that.

 

As for the pga having a seat at the table. ? Lol. I'm sure they did. As spectators , much like Mikes moments of enlightenment on the range at pebble ... I'd pay $ for the minutes of those meetings. It would bust this wide open I'm sure.

Words matter when you've chosen to cut off communication, then say that THEY need to "start communicating". It works both ways, and I still believe that the real truth is somewhere in the middle. I'm not claiming that the USGA handled it well, but perhaps using Twitter was a last resort to get a hold of someone who has said "don't call me this week".

 

And now you're saying Monahan's statements, Slumbers's statement, and Thomas Bjorn's, are lies? I know you always believe the worst about the USGA, but you seem to respect the others. I'll quote it again, you're saying this is a lie.

“During this process, we put forward a lengthy list of recommendations to improve the rules in many ways, including the removal of numerous penalties, and virtually all our suggestions were incorporated,” Monahan wrote

 

Sorry Dave, but I disagree here. Using Monahan’s statement about the rules doesn’t excuse the USGA blantanly fabricating facts.

 

This has now moved onto another level from the initial rules issues, which Monohan’s statement was in regard to, to a very real question of the USGA’s credibility, and even integrity. When you come out and admit you lied, your reputation takes a massive hit. For the life of me I can’t imagine why they made that statement, leave it a “he said, she said” situation and let it die, which it will. Probably sooner than later.

 

Damon Hack asked a very pertinent question this morning, “who’se running the ship over there”. How does an entity of this position let something like this happen

 

DSS, that's The Sacred USGA you're speaking about. Show some reverence or something.

[bladehunter]

I'd say plenty of correspondence has/had had occurred. I'm sure in a one sided manner. And maybe that's how it has to be ? But I do see why JT wouldn't want to engage in any further one sided talks during a work week. Bad for the mindset. But I'm not sure how we're still leaping to a canceled anything. The USga asking for a conference call and JT saying not now isn't canceling. It's postponing . Semantics ? Maybe. But words mattter when calling someone out.

 

USga would have been best served by releasing this " we're contacting JT now to discuss his grievances in private , we're aware of his concerns and value his imput ". That give at least the appearance of giving a poop and is technically " communication ". Easy peasy . Hands clean. Their ego got in the way of that.

 

As for the pga having a seat at the table. ? Lol. I'm sure they did. As spectators , much like Mikes moments of enlightenment on the range at pebble ... I'd pay $ for the minutes of those meetings. It would bust this wide open I'm sure.

Words matter when you've chosen to cut off communication, then say that THEY need to "start communicating". It works both ways, and I still believe that the real truth is somewhere in the middle. I'm not claiming that the USGA handled it well, but perhaps using Twitter was a last resort to get a hold of someone who has said "don't call me this week".

 

And now you're saying Monahan's statements, Slumbers's statement, and Thomas Bjorn's, are lies? I know you always believe the worst about the USGA, but you seem to respect the others. I'll quote it again, you're saying this is a lie.

“During this process, we put forward a lengthy list of recommendations to improve the rules in many ways, including the removal of numerous penalties, and virtually all our suggestions were incorporated,” Monahan wrote

 

It’s not a lie. It’s a calculated statement to squash the uprising. Do I think they’re been in contact the whole time ? Yes. Do I think the pga tour has any say or vote in what happens with the rules , apart from taking to twitter as they’ve done ? Nope. If they had why hasn’t this statement to the players been released say around October 2018 ? To preempt any of this. A quick “ hey guys we helped write these rules “ would have directed this away from the USga. I don’t believe that happened because the tour didn’t help write any of it. Not in a way they wanted to take ownership of.

 

That being said. I’ve spent the morning working and reading USga related articles on their course setups , the tie in to Jon ( a USga guy) ( forget his last name ) getting the Shinecock supers job after being at Chicago CC ( another of the founding clubs ) just in time for the 18 us open. Then the hints that it was the staffs fault they nearly lost the greens ( again ) and a media members first hand account that those greens were lush and immaculate the Sunday before the tournament when he walked the course himself. All I can do is shake my head.

 

But I’m going to swap gears and read the afternoon and try to find all the positive things I can that theusga is doing. It’s an approach I haven’t taken. Luckily what I’m working on today is a lot of “ hurry up and wait “. lol.

[HitEmTrue]

It's not a lie. It's a calculated statement to squash the uprising.

 

Yet you accused the USGA of lying when they made yesterday's statement.

 

If they had why hasn't this statement to the players been released say around October 2018 ?

 

You don't know what communication happened inside of the tour in 2018, regarding the rules. It wasn't a news item, and wouldn't have been released to the public.

[davep043]

I'd say plenty of correspondence has/had had occurred. I'm sure in a one sided manner. And maybe that's how it has to be ? But I do see why JT wouldn't want to engage in any further one sided talks during a work week. Bad for the mindset. But I'm not sure how we're still leaping to a canceled anything. The USga asking for a conference call and JT saying not now isn't canceling. It's postponing . Semantics ? Maybe. But words mattter when calling someone out.

 

USga would have been best served by releasing this " we're contacting JT now to discuss his grievances in private , we're aware of his concerns and value his imput ". That give at least the appearance of giving a poop and is technically " communication ". Easy peasy . Hands clean. Their ego got in the way of that.

 

As for the pga having a seat at the table. ? Lol. I'm sure they did. As spectators , much like Mikes moments of enlightenment on the range at pebble ... I'd pay $ for the minutes of those meetings. It would bust this wide open I'm sure.

Words matter when you've chosen to cut off communication, then say that THEY need to "start communicating". It works both ways, and I still believe that the real truth is somewhere in the middle. I'm not claiming that the USGA handled it well, but perhaps using Twitter was a last resort to get a hold of someone who has said "don't call me this week".

 

And now you're saying Monahan's statements, Slumbers's statement, and Thomas Bjorn's, are lies? I know you always believe the worst about the USGA, but you seem to respect the others. I'll quote it again, you're saying this is a lie.

“During this process, we put forward a lengthy list of recommendations to improve the rules in many ways, including the removal of numerous penalties, and virtually all our suggestions were incorporated,” Monahan wrote

 

Sorry Dave, but I disagree here. Using Monahan’s statement about the rules doesn’t excuse the USGA blantanly fabricating facts.

 

This has now moved onto another level from the initial rules issues, which Monohan’s statement was in regard to, to a very real question of the USGA’s credibility, and even integrity. When you come out and admit you lied, your reputation takes a massive hit. For the life of me I can’t imagine why they made that statement, leave it a “he said, she said” situation and let it die, which it will. Probably sooner than later.

 

Damon Hack asked a very pertinent question this morning, “who’se running the ship over there”. How does an entity of this position let something like this happen

Please note, I specifically said I was not defending the USGA. I remain unconvinced that their second statement is absolute truth, while their first is an absolute fabrication. I just know from personal experience that sometimes its best to eat a little ____, even tell lies to ease the pressure on an "adversary" in order to move the process forward a bit. I don't know that that's what happened, but its certainly a reasonable course of action, rather than documenting every attempted contact with JT for public consumption.

 

For those who think Monahan's statement is simply a new invention, please read this, the second bullet point

http://scpga.com/wp-...resentation.pdf

That is from 2017

[deadsolid...shank]

I'd say plenty of correspondence has/had had occurred. I'm sure in a one sided manner. And maybe that's how it has to be ? But I do see why JT wouldn't want to engage in any further one sided talks during a work week. Bad for the mindset. But I'm not sure how we're still leaping to a canceled anything. The USga asking for a conference call and JT saying not now isn't canceling. It's postponing . Semantics ? Maybe. But words mattter when calling someone out.

 

USga would have been best served by releasing this " we're contacting JT now to discuss his grievances in private , we're aware of his concerns and value his imput ". That give at least the appearance of giving a poop and is technically " communication ". Easy peasy . Hands clean. Their ego got in the way of that.

 

As for the pga having a seat at the table. ? Lol. I'm sure they did. As spectators , much like Mikes moments of enlightenment on the range at pebble ... I'd pay $ for the minutes of those meetings. It would bust this wide open I'm sure.

Words matter when you've chosen to cut off communication, then say that THEY need to "start communicating". It works both ways, and I still believe that the real truth is somewhere in the middle. I'm not claiming that the USGA handled it well, but perhaps using Twitter was a last resort to get a hold of someone who has said "don't call me this week".

 

And now you're saying Monahan's statements, Slumbers's statement, and Thomas Bjorn's, are lies? I know you always believe the worst about the USGA, but you seem to respect the others. I'll quote it again, you're saying this is a lie.

“During this process, we put forward a lengthy list of recommendations to improve the rules in many ways, including the removal of numerous penalties, and virtually all our suggestions were incorporated,” Monahan wrote

 

Sorry Dave, but I disagree here. Using Monahan’s statement about the rules doesn’t excuse the USGA blantanly fabricating facts.

 

This has now moved onto another level from the initial rules issues, which Monohan’s statement was in regard to, to a very real question of the USGA’s credibility, and even integrity. When you come out and admit you lied, your reputation takes a massive hit. For the life of me I can’t imagine why they made that statement, leave it a “he said, she said” situation and let it die, which it will. Probably sooner than later.

 

Damon Hack asked a very pertinent question this morning, “who’se running the ship over there”. How does an entity of this position let something like this happen

Please note, I specifically said I was not defending the USGA. I remain unconvinced that their second statement is absolute truth, while their first is an absolute fabrication. I just know from personal experience that sometimes its best to eat a little ____, even tell lies to ease the pressure on an "adversary" in order to move the process forward a bit. I don't know that that's what happened, but its certainly a reasonable course of action, rather than documenting every attempted contact with JT for public consumption.

 

 

 

Lose the battle to win the war? So to speak.