USGA PR team to Justin Thomas: "We need to talk"

[bladehunter]

^^ agree with this tooo. Lol. Such a deep topic.

 

I have a 10 year old. And man. It’s hard to fight this. I’m convinced there will be a reckoning against this in my lifetime. Someone will burn down Facebook headquarters etc. lol. I’m telling you. We started devolving around 1999

[Ashley Schaeffer]

PGA Tour pros and their rules issues fifty years ago.

 

https://www.golfdige...ed-50-years-ago

Seems night and day from what's going on now. Jack & Arnie understood the importance of publicly deferring to the USGA. It's sort of the opposite of being the USGA being the hero deserve, but not the one we need right now.

 

I'd bet it's closer to identical with the one exception. Twitter.

 

Also, the quote, "We realized we weren't bigger than the game (paraphrasing)." must be taken in 1968 context, when they absolutely were not.

It's very interesting that Arnie and Nicklaus (the stars) led the break from the PGA of America for reasons they thought beneficial to the players.

I understand tour pros aren't bigger than the game now, but, as times have changed, it will be interesting to see what the stars of today's game might spearhead following in the footsteps of Arnie and Nicklaus.

The rest of that quote is the most important point in the article. Jack said they weren’t bigger than the game of golf, and that the USGA effectively IS the game of golf. Jack understood in order to grow the game it was important for the professionals at the highest level to be governed by the same rules & body as the weekend golfer. And that it was therefore important to protect and uphold the USGA publicly. And if you look at today, it shows he was right. All of this sniping in recent years about rules or USO setups, legitimate complaints or not, has clearly hurt the USGA’s standing with average golfers and I don’t see how that’s good for the game.

 

As times have changed it will be interesting to see what the stars of today might spearhead to shake things up following in footsteps of Arnie and Nicklaus.

[cardia10]

The real question isn't what happened 50 years ago, but based on fact today of changes that aren't growing, but possibly shrinking the game. How long does a group allow it to continue before it totally drives everyone away. I'd be willing to bet more than 80% of recreational golfers could care less about the minute detail of every rule, especially when they are changed so often and for little reason other than appeasing the .001% that play for money. There is no respect for the organization and that lack of respect has been earned by them over the last few decades.

[imakaveli]

PGA Tour pros and their rules issues fifty years ago.

 

https://www.golfdige...ed-50-years-ago

Seems night and day from what's going on now. Jack & Arnie understood the importance of publicly deferring to the USGA. It's sort of the opposite of being the USGA being the hero deserve, but not the one we need right now.

 

I'd bet it's closer to identical with the one exception. Twitter.

 

Also, the quote, "We realized we weren't bigger than the game (paraphrasing)." must be taken in 1968 context, when they absolutely were not.

It's very interesting that Arnie and Nicklaus (the stars) led the break from the PGA of America for reasons they thought beneficial to the players.

I understand tour pros aren't bigger than the game now, but, as times have changed, it will be interesting to see what the stars of today's game might spearhead following in the footsteps of Arnie and Nicklaus.

The rest of that quote is the most important point in the article. Jack said they weren't bigger than the game of golf, and that the USGA effectively IS the game of golf. Jack understood in order to grow the game it was important for the professionals at the highest level to be governed by the same rules & body as the weekend golfer. And that it was therefore important to protect and uphold the USGA publicly. And if you look at today, it shows he was right. All of this sniping in recent years about rules or USO setups, legitimate complaints or not, has clearly hurt the USGA's standing with average golfers and I don't see how that's good for the game.

 

The USGA is golf? Some folks in Scotland would have something to say...

[nsxguy]

The real question isn't what happened 50 years ago, but based on fact today of changes that aren't growing, but possibly shrinking the game. How long does a group allow it to continue before it totally drives everyone away. I'd be willing to bet more than 80% of recreational golfers could care less about the minute detail of every rule, especially when they are changed so often and for little reason other than appeasing the .001% that play for money. There is no respect for the organization and that lack of respect has been earned by them over the last few decades.

 

With all due respect, what ARE you talking about ? :blink:

 

Are you suggesting that some sort of declining participation in golf is because of the USGA or the Rules ? As you suggest 80% (or more) of the golfing public couldn't care less about the Rules.

 

"Changed so often" ? Of course there are some minor tweaks each year but this is the first MAJOR overhaul in a looooooong time. And much of it was done to appease ALL golfers; certainly not the .001% you are suggesting. It's that .001% that are WHINING about the changes.

[I_HATE_SNOW]

Nothing like the complaining of millionaires. Golf is your job, learn the rules or hire a caddie that knows them and quit acting like spoiled brats.

[new2g0lf]

All sports discourage their athletes from disparaging the rules and officials, so no surprise the USGA is a bit sensitive when guys like JT and Rickie take a few pot shots at them. Golf is a bit unique in that we all play under the same rules (minus local rules) so they are subject to more abuse from amateurs as well as the pro's.

[Scotty1140]

^^ agree with this tooo. Lol. Such a deep topic.

 

I have a 10 year old. And man. It's hard to fight this. I'm convinced there will be a reckoning against this in my lifetime. Someone will burn down Facebook headquarters etc. lol. I'm telling you. We started devolving around 1999

 

That's because the world actually ended on Y2K.

 

I think this is some kind of Matrix like simulation us "survivors" are experiencing.

 

The new USGA rules are just a glitch in the system.

[HitEmTrue]

The real question isn't what happened 50 years ago, but based on fact today of changes that aren't growing, but possibly shrinking the game. How long does a group allow it to continue before it totally drives everyone away. I'd be willing to bet more than 80% of recreational golfers could care less about the minute detail of every rule, especially when they are changed so often and for little reason other than appeasing the .001% that play for money. There is no respect for the organization and that lack of respect has been earned by them over the last few decades.

 

The bolded part is true (have no idea on the percentage itself). My conclusion is that, because of this, rule changes DON'T drive folks away from the game.

 

Also, the rules aren't changed very often. Outside of the 2019 changes, recent changes have been very minor tweaks, and helpful ones at that...generally related to rules infractions caught on camera and more leniency on golf balls that move when being addressed.

[HitEmTrue]

The USGA is golf? Some folks in Scotland would have something to say...

 

Jack said USGA & R&A.

[braincramp52]

The real question isn't what happened 50 years ago, but based on fact today of changes that aren't growing, but possibly shrinking the game. How long does a group allow it to continue before it totally drives everyone away. I'd be willing to bet more than 80% of recreational golfers could care less about the minute detail of every rule, especially when they are changed so often and for little reason other than appeasing the .001% that play for money. There is no respect for the organization and that lack of respect has been earned by them over the last few decades.

 

The bolded part is true (have no idea on the percentage itself). My conclusion is that, because of this, rule changes DON'T drive folks away from the game.

 

Also, the rules aren't changed very often. Outside of the 2019 changes, recent changes have been very minor tweaks, and helpful ones at that...generally related to rules infractions caught on camera and more leniency on golf balls that move when being addressed.

 

I agree with your opinion on driving people away except for the anchor ban. Many seniors quit rather than being ridiculed by others on playing a long or belly putter.

[cardia10]

The real question isn't what happened 50 years ago, but based on fact today of changes that aren't growing, but possibly shrinking the game. How long does a group allow it to continue before it totally drives everyone away. I'd be willing to bet more than 80% of recreational golfers could care less about the minute detail of every rule, especially when they are changed so often and for little reason other than appeasing the .001% that play for money. There is no respect for the organization and that lack of respect has been earned by them over the last few decades.

 

The bolded part is true (have no idea on the percentage itself). My conclusion is that, because of this, rule changes DON'T drive folks away from the game.

 

Also, the rules aren't changed very often. Outside of the 2019 changes, recent changes have been very minor tweaks, and helpful ones at that...generally related to rules infractions caught on camera and more leniency on golf balls that move when being addressed.

 

I agree with your opinion on driving people away except for the anchor ban. Many seniors quit rather than being ridiculed by others on playing a long or belly putter.

 

My whole thought is that the USGA should represent the masses, yet basic changes that affect and benefit the masses are rarely changed, yet constantly "tweak" rules to satisfy tour players. The USGA is about as useful as the NCAA in my opinion.

[nsxguy]

All sports discourage their athletes from disparaging the rules and officials, so no surprise the USGA is a bit sensitive when guys like JT and Rickie take a few pot shots at them. Golf is a bit unique in that we all play under the same rules (minus local rules) so they are subject to more abuse from amateurs as well as the pro's.

 

Everybody gets a bit sensitive when people take pot shots at them. Even if they don't show it they're still at least somewhat negatively affected by it. Put it out of their mind right away ? Sure, some can.

 

I personally don't have a favorite golfer. There are some I like better than others and would like to see win but if one of the guys I like isn't in the running, that's fine; I still like to watch a battle at the end of a tournament. If someone's ahead by 6 shots with 3 to play though, I'm changing the channel.

 

When Rickie first showed up he kinda sorta looked a bit clownish with all the bright orange "look at me" clothes and all the kids fawning over him and him playing to it. But he pretty quickly won me over with his interactions with the kids, growing the game for sure, and his game !!!

 

I grew to where he was one of those guys I rooted for. His charges, whether he eventually won or not, were kind of electric at times. He'd make clutch putt after clutch putt and when he missed one of them I was surprised.

 

Justin Thomas, while I like his game as well, turned out to be a whiner and that's kind of annoying but I don't think any less of him for expressing his opinions. Sure wish he'd back them up though. :rolleyes:

 

Rickie ? With that totally classless "butt drop", has entirely lost my respect. Instead of rooting for his putt to drop I'll be telling his ball "get out of there" instead of "go IN".

 

He won't lose any sleep over it. Neither will I. It won't affect either of our lives at all. Will that classless act prove costly to him at all ? Probably not, but who (really) knows ? :dntknw:

 

I guess time will tell. But I know, if I were good enough to enter the Golf HOF, which Rickie may some day, I wouldn't want that video on my resume. :(

[ClintDagger]

The real question isn't what happened 50 years ago, but based on fact today of changes that aren't growing, but possibly shrinking the game. How long does a group allow it to continue before it totally drives everyone away. I'd be willing to bet more than 80% of recreational golfers could care less about the minute detail of every rule, especially when they are changed so often and for little reason other than appeasing the .001% that play for money. There is no respect for the organization and that lack of respect has been earned by them over the last few decades.

 

The bolded part is true (have no idea on the percentage itself). My conclusion is that, because of this, rule changes DON'T drive folks away from the game.

 

Also, the rules aren't changed very often. Outside of the 2019 changes, recent changes have been very minor tweaks, and helpful ones at that...generally related to rules infractions caught on camera and more leniency on golf balls that move when being addressed.

The kind of people that have left the game and the USGA wants back probably don’t know the rules anyways. Old or new. So l agree with what you’re saying. What drives people away is cost & convenience. I think the USGA wants to show they are trying to address the convenience aspect but honestly I don’t think there’s a magic wand for that. But I suppose it’s their duty to at least try and clearly some tour pros aren’t willing to grin & bear it.

[buckeyefl]

The real question isn't what happened 50 years ago, but based on fact today of changes that aren't growing, but possibly shrinking the game. How long does a group allow it to continue before it totally drives everyone away. I'd be willing to bet more than 80% of recreational golfers could care less about the minute detail of every rule, especially when they are changed so often and for little reason other than appeasing the .001% that play for money. There is no respect for the organization and that lack of respect has been earned by them over the last few decades.

 

The bolded part is true (have no idea on the percentage itself). My conclusion is that, because of this, rule changes DON'T drive folks away from the game.

 

Also, the rules aren't changed very often. Outside of the 2019 changes, recent changes have been very minor tweaks, and helpful ones at that...generally related to rules infractions caught on camera and more leniency on golf balls that move when being addressed.

 

I agree with your opinion on driving people away except for the anchor ban. Many seniors quit rather than being ridiculed by others on playing a long or belly putter.

 

My whole thought is that the USGA should represent the masses, yet basic changes that affect and benefit the masses are rarely changed, yet constantly "tweak" rules to satisfy tour players. The USGA is about as useful as the NCAA in my opinion.

 

Very well said and 100% on target except the "satisfy" part. They seem to focus very hard on some things the see on tour while completely overlooking the masses that fuel the game.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

The real question isn't what happened 50 years ago, but based on fact today of changes that aren't growing, but possibly shrinking the game. How long does a group allow it to continue before it totally drives everyone away. I'd be willing to bet more than 80% of recreational golfers could care less about the minute detail of every rule, especially when they are changed so often and for little reason other than appeasing the .001% that play for money. There is no respect for the organization and that lack of respect has been earned by them over the last few decades.

 

The bolded part is true (have no idea on the percentage itself). My conclusion is that, because of this, rule changes DON'T drive folks away from the game.

 

Also, the rules aren't changed very often. Outside of the 2019 changes, recent changes have been very minor tweaks, and helpful ones at that...generally related to rules infractions caught on camera and more leniency on golf balls that move when being addressed.

The kind of people that have left the game and the USGA wants back probably don’t know the rules anyways. Old or new. So l agree with what you’re saying. What drives people away is cost & convenience. I think the USGA wants to show they are trying to address the convenience aspect but honestly I don’t think there’s a magic wand for that. But I suppose it’s their duty to at least try and clearly some tour pros aren’t willing to grin & bear it.

 

I agree the USGA wants to show it's trying to legislate for the masses, but it's still in charge of doing so for the best players in the world who play on an unrelated professional tour. That's odd, and I don't think it happens anywhere else in pro sports.

 

The elite pro game less resembles the game the masses play now more than ever before, and I believe the gap will continue to widen. Accordingly, the USGA is in a tough spot attempting to create and administer one set of rules for both groups.

 

To me, saying the USGA should care about the masses and not .0001% (or whatever) of players just bolsters the validity of questioning whether the USGA should be involved in elite professional golf.

[ClintDagger]

The real question isn't what happened 50 years ago, but based on fact today of changes that aren't growing, but possibly shrinking the game. How long does a group allow it to continue before it totally drives everyone away. I'd be willing to bet more than 80% of recreational golfers could care less about the minute detail of every rule, especially when they are changed so often and for little reason other than appeasing the .001% that play for money. There is no respect for the organization and that lack of respect has been earned by them over the last few decades.

 

The bolded part is true (have no idea on the percentage itself). My conclusion is that, because of this, rule changes DON'T drive folks away from the game.

 

Also, the rules aren't changed very often. Outside of the 2019 changes, recent changes have been very minor tweaks, and helpful ones at that...generally related to rules infractions caught on camera and more leniency on golf balls that move when being addressed.

The kind of people that have left the game and the USGA wants back probably don’t know the rules anyways. Old or new. So l agree with what you’re saying. What drives people away is cost & convenience. I think the USGA wants to show they are trying to address the convenience aspect but honestly I don’t think there’s a magic wand for that. But I suppose it’s their duty to at least try and clearly some tour pros aren’t willing to grin & bear it.

 

I agree the USGA wants to show it's trying to legislate for the masses, but it's still in charge of doing so for the best players in the world who play on an unrelated professional tour. That's odd, and I don't think it happens anywhere else in pro sports.

 

The elite pro game less resembles the game the masses play now more than ever before, and I believe the gap will continue to widen. Accordingly, the USGA is in a tough spot attempting to create and administer one set of rules for both groups.

 

To me, saying the USGA should care about the masses and not .0001% (or whatever) of players just bolsters the validity of questioning whether the USGA should be involved in elite professional golf.

It is odd. But necessary for the game to be successful.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

The real question isn't what happened 50 years ago, but based on fact today of changes that aren't growing, but possibly shrinking the game. How long does a group allow it to continue before it totally drives everyone away. I'd be willing to bet more than 80% of recreational golfers could care less about the minute detail of every rule, especially when they are changed so often and for little reason other than appeasing the .001% that play for money. There is no respect for the organization and that lack of respect has been earned by them over the last few decades.

 

The bolded part is true (have no idea on the percentage itself). My conclusion is that, because of this, rule changes DON'T drive folks away from the game.

 

Also, the rules aren't changed very often. Outside of the 2019 changes, recent changes have been very minor tweaks, and helpful ones at that...generally related to rules infractions caught on camera and more leniency on golf balls that move when being addressed.

The kind of people that have left the game and the USGA wants back probably don't know the rules anyways. Old or new. So l agree with what you're saying. What drives people away is cost & convenience. I think the USGA wants to show they are trying to address the convenience aspect but honestly I don't think there's a magic wand for that. But I suppose it's their duty to at least try and clearly some tour pros aren't willing to grin & bear it.

 

I agree the USGA wants to show it's trying to legislate for the masses, but it's still in charge of doing so for the best players in the world who play on an unrelated professional tour. That's odd, and I don't think it happens anywhere else in pro sports.

 

The elite pro game less resembles the game the masses play now more than ever before, and I believe the gap will continue to widen. Accordingly, the USGA is in a tough spot attempting to create and administer one set of rules for both groups.

 

To me, saying the USGA should care about the masses and not .0001% (or whatever) of players just bolsters the validity of questioning whether the USGA should be involved in elite professional golf.

It is odd. But necessary for the game to be successful.

 

Which game? I mean, all other sports seem to exist with amateur organizations making rules for the ams, and pro leagues making rules for pros.

I would agree that it's necessary for the USGA to be as successful as it is at present. On that, we agree.

[Ignatius Reilly]

The real question isn't what happened 50 years ago, but based on fact today of changes that aren't growing, but possibly shrinking the game. How long does a group allow it to continue before it totally drives everyone away. I'd be willing to bet more than 80% of recreational golfers could care less about the minute detail of every rule, especially when they are changed so often and for little reason other than appeasing the .001% that play for money. There is no respect for the organization and that lack of respect has been earned by them over the last few decades.

 

The bolded part is true (have no idea on the percentage itself). My conclusion is that, because of this, rule changes DON'T drive folks away from the game.

 

Also, the rules aren't changed very often. Outside of the 2019 changes, recent changes have been very minor tweaks, and helpful ones at that...generally related to rules infractions caught on camera and more leniency on golf balls that move when being addressed.

The kind of people that have left the game and the USGA wants back probably don't know the rules anyways. Old or new. So l agree with what you're saying. What drives people away is cost & convenience. I think the USGA wants to show they are trying to address the convenience aspect but honestly I don't think there's a magic wand for that. But I suppose it's their duty to at least try and clearly some tour pros aren't willing to grin & bear it.

 

I agree the USGA wants to show it's trying to legislate for the masses, but it's still in charge of doing so for the best players in the world who play on an unrelated professional tour. That's odd, and I don't think it happens anywhere else in pro sports.

 

The elite pro game less resembles the game the masses play now more than ever before, and I believe the gap will continue to widen. Accordingly, the USGA is in a tough spot attempting to create and administer one set of rules for both groups.

 

To me, saying the USGA should care about the masses and not .0001% (or whatever) of players just bolsters the validity of questioning whether the USGA should be involved in elite professional golf.

 

You've got the roles confused.

 

The USGA makes the rules for all 100% of golfers.

 

The elite players' Tours choose to follow those same rules. The USGA does not and cannot make them do it.

[bladehunter]

The interesting thing to me that the game looking more and more different on tv vs what is played on the weekend . And that it can’t be good. Kills me that they couldn’t see this coming. But. To grow the game I guess. The pro side anyway.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

You've got the roles confused.

 

The USGA makes the rules for all 100% of golfers.

 

The elite players' Tours choose to follow those same rules. The USGA does not and cannot make them do it.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Your post is exactly what I've been trying to say. The USGA is trying to make workable rules for all golfers in a world where the game on TV is more removed from everyday golf than it's ever been, and that gap will continue to widen. The PGA Tour is under no obligation to adopt the USGA's rules. AS the gap between the games widens, it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

[new2g0lf]

The interesting thing to me that the game looking more and more different on tv vs what is played on the weekend . And that it can't be good. Kills me that they couldn't see this coming. But. To grow the game I guess. The pro side anyway.

 

You're seeing the game how GC and the broadcast networks want you to see it. Not everyone that watches golf plays it and many enjoy seeing the pro's doing things that most amateurs only dream of doing.

[Ignatius Reilly]

You've got the roles confused.

 

The USGA makes the rules for all 100% of golfers.

 

The elite players' Tours choose to follow those same rules. The USGA does not and cannot make them do it.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Your post is exactly what I've been trying to say. The USGA is trying to make workable rules for all golfers in a world where the game on TV is more removed from everyday golf than it's ever been, and that gap will continue to widen. The PGA Tour is under no obligation to adopt the USGA's rules. AS the gap between the games widens, it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

 

Help me out here.

 

Are you saying that the USGA/R&A make rules for all golfers around the world, AND that the PGA Tour (and all the other Tours) follow those rules, AND.... that that's a problem?

 

The PGA Tour might choose to make their own rules and truly start to play a game different to the rest of us, but I can't see that being all that popular.

 

They could make the cup much smaller, or larger. Not sure that would improve their appeal for the rest of us.

 

They could drop from a different height, or allow their caddies to stand behind them. Not sure that's going to attract a lot of new viewers to their game, or drive any from the rest of the world's game.

 

How do you see it playing out? What different rules do you think the Tours might adopt?

[Ashley Schaeffer]

You've got the roles confused.

 

The USGA makes the rules for all 100% of golfers.

 

The elite players' Tours choose to follow those same rules. The USGA does not and cannot make them do it.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Your post is exactly what I've been trying to say. The USGA is trying to make workable rules for all golfers in a world where the game on TV is more removed from everyday golf than it's ever been, and that gap will continue to widen. The PGA Tour is under no obligation to adopt the USGA's rules. AS the gap between the games widens, it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

 

Help me out here.

 

Are you saying that the USGA/R&A make rules for all golfers around the world, AND that the PGA Tour (and all the other Tours) follow those rules, AND.... that that's a problem?

 

The PGA Tour might choose to make their own rules and truly start to play a game different to the rest of us, but I can't see that being all that popular.

 

They could make the cup much smaller, or larger. Not sure that would improve their appeal for the rest of us.

 

They could drop from a different height, or allow their caddies to stand behind them. Not sure that's going to attract a lot of new viewers to their game, or drive any from the rest of the world's game.

 

How do you see it playing out? What different rules do you think the Tours might adopt?

 

I'm not saying it's a problem presently. Like I've said before, these rule changes probably aren't enough to drive a sea change. I see that it could become a problem if more and more players on tour disagree with what the USGA does. I also believe something will be done in the next 20 years if everything continues on this trajectory. IDK what the differences could be between PGA Tour Rules and USGA Rules. I'm simply pointing out that the USGA probably shouldn't seek to advance such an eventuality by pissing off players by lying about them on Twitter.

 

As for the popularity of a potential split and its influence on the everyday game, I'll ask this: If the PGA Tour allowed anchoring tomorrow, do you think there might be more belly putters on the rack at the superstores, or would there still be zero?

[ClintDagger]

You've got the roles confused.

 

The USGA makes the rules for all 100% of golfers.

 

The elite players' Tours choose to follow those same rules. The USGA does not and cannot make them do it.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Your post is exactly what I've been trying to say. The USGA is trying to make workable rules for all golfers in a world where the game on TV is more removed from everyday golf than it's ever been, and that gap will continue to widen. The PGA Tour is under no obligation to adopt the USGA's rules. AS the gap between the games widens, it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

 

Help me out here.

 

Are you saying that the USGA/R&A make rules for all golfers around the world, AND that the PGA Tour (and all the other Tours) follow those rules, AND.... that that's a problem?

 

The PGA Tour might choose to make their own rules and truly start to play a game different to the rest of us, but I can't see that being all that popular.

 

They could make the cup much smaller, or larger. Not sure that would improve their appeal for the rest of us.

 

They could drop from a different height, or allow their caddies to stand behind them. Not sure that's going to attract a lot of new viewers to their game, or drive any from the rest of the world's game.

 

How do you see it playing out? What different rules do you think the Tours might adopt?

The game of golf has already lost and continues to lose casual fans. If the Tour started playing by a separate set of rules than the weekend golfer that would turn off hardcore fans. That’s why it’s important for the USGA (and R &A) to govern everyone.

[nsxguy]

You've got the roles confused.

 

The USGA makes the rules for all 100% of golfers.

 

The elite players' Tours choose to follow those same rules. The USGA does not and cannot make them do it.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Your post is exactly what I've been trying to say. The USGA is trying to make workable rules for all golfers in a world where the game on TV is more removed from everyday golf than it's ever been, and that gap will continue to widen. The PGA Tour is under no obligation to adopt the USGA's rules. AS the gap between the games widens, it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

 

Help me out here.

 

Are you saying that the USGA/R&A make rules for all golfers around the world, AND that the PGA Tour (and all the other Tours) follow those rules, AND.... that that's a problem?

 

The PGA Tour might choose to make their own rules and truly start to play a game different to the rest of us, but I can't see that being all that popular.

 

They could make the cup much smaller, or larger. Not sure that would improve their appeal for the rest of us.

 

They could drop from a different height, or allow their caddies to stand behind them. Not sure that's going to attract a lot of new viewers to their game, or drive any from the rest of the world's game.

 

How do you see it playing out? What different rules do you think the Tours might adopt?

 

I'm not saying it's a problem presently. Like I've said before, these rule changes probably aren't enough to drive a sea change. I see that it could become a problem if more and more players on tour disagree with what the USGA does. I also believe something will be done in the next 20 years if everything continues on this trajectory. IDK what the differences could be between PGA Tour Rules and USGA Rules. I'm simply pointing out that the USGA probably shouldn't seek to advance such an eventuality by pissing off players by lying about them on Twitter.

 

As for the popularity of a potential split and its influence on the everyday game, I'll ask this: If the PGA Tour allowed anchoring tomorrow, do you think there might be more belly putters on the rack at the superstores, or would there still be zero?

 

1) AFAIK, this ("lying" about a player) was one time thing; a poor reaction to being chided. It was admitted to and apologized for and not likely to occur again. Let's not make it sound like this is an everyday occurrence.

 

2) You have a very small percentage of players complaining. Haven't heard a peep from Li. And while there are a few pros other than Rickie and Justin mentioning not liking the new Rules (or some such), they're not whining about them. They're saying things like "We'll get used to them". Maybe THEY actually read about the major changes coming ?

 

3) You need to get out more. Bettinardi and Odyssey have long putters on the rack right now.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

You've got the roles confused.

 

The USGA makes the rules for all 100% of golfers.

 

The elite players' Tours choose to follow those same rules. The USGA does not and cannot make them do it.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Your post is exactly what I've been trying to say. The USGA is trying to make workable rules for all golfers in a world where the game on TV is more removed from everyday golf than it's ever been, and that gap will continue to widen. The PGA Tour is under no obligation to adopt the USGA's rules. AS the gap between the games widens, it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

 

Help me out here.

 

Are you saying that the USGA/R&A make rules for all golfers around the world, AND that the PGA Tour (and all the other Tours) follow those rules, AND.... that that's a problem?

 

The PGA Tour might choose to make their own rules and truly start to play a game different to the rest of us, but I can't see that being all that popular.

 

They could make the cup much smaller, or larger. Not sure that would improve their appeal for the rest of us.

 

They could drop from a different height, or allow their caddies to stand behind them. Not sure that's going to attract a lot of new viewers to their game, or drive any from the rest of the world's game.

 

How do you see it playing out? What different rules do you think the Tours might adopt?

 

I'm not saying it's a problem presently. Like I've said before, these rule changes probably aren't enough to drive a sea change. I see that it could become a problem if more and more players on tour disagree with what the USGA does. I also believe something will be done in the next 20 years if everything continues on this trajectory. IDK what the differences could be between PGA Tour Rules and USGA Rules. I'm simply pointing out that the USGA probably shouldn't seek to advance such an eventuality by pissing off players by lying about them on Twitter.

 

As for the popularity of a potential split and its influence on the everyday game, I'll ask this: If the PGA Tour allowed anchoring tomorrow, do you think there might be more belly putters on the rack at the superstores, or would there still be zero?

 

1) AFAIK, this ("lying" about a player) was one time thing; a poor reaction to being chided. It was admitted to and apologized for and not likely to occur again. Let's not make it sound like this is an everyday occurrence.

 

2) You have a very small percentage of players complaining. Haven't heard a peep from Li. And while there are a few pros other than Rickie and Justin mentioning not liking the new Rules (or some such), they're not whining about them. They're saying things like "We'll get used to them". Maybe THEY actually read about the major changes coming ?

 

3) You need to get out more. Bettinardi and Odyssey have long putters on the rack right now.

 

1. There was NO apology. Get real, chief.

2. If more and more players don't like the USGA, it won't end well for the USGA.

3. Designed belly putters, which were widely available from many manufacturers when seen on TV.

4. The NSX is the second most overrated car in history.

 

 

[davep043]

You've got the roles confused.

 

The USGA makes the rules for all 100% of golfers.

 

The elite players' Tours choose to follow those same rules. The USGA does not and cannot make them do it.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Your post is exactly what I've been trying to say. The USGA is trying to make workable rules for all golfers in a world where the game on TV is more removed from everyday golf than it's ever been, and that gap will continue to widen. The PGA Tour is under no obligation to adopt the USGA's rules. AS the gap between the games widens, it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

 

Help me out here.

 

Are you saying that the USGA/R&A make rules for all golfers around the world, AND that the PGA Tour (and all the other Tours) follow those rules, AND.... that that's a problem?

 

The PGA Tour might choose to make their own rules and truly start to play a game different to the rest of us, but I can't see that being all that popular.

 

They could make the cup much smaller, or larger. Not sure that would improve their appeal for the rest of us.

 

They could drop from a different height, or allow their caddies to stand behind them. Not sure that's going to attract a lot of new viewers to their game, or drive any from the rest of the world's game.

 

How do you see it playing out? What different rules do you think the Tours might adopt?

 

I'm not saying it's a problem presently. Like I've said before, these rule changes probably aren't enough to drive a sea change. I see that it could become a problem if more and more players on tour disagree with what the USGA does. I also believe something will be done in the next 20 years if everything continues on this trajectory. IDK what the differences could be between PGA Tour Rules and USGA Rules. I'm simply pointing out that the USGA probably shouldn't seek to advance such an eventuality by pissing off players by lying about them on Twitter.

 

As for the popularity of a potential split and its influence on the everyday game, I'll ask this: If the PGA Tour allowed anchoring tomorrow, do you think there might be more belly putters on the rack at the superstores, or would there still be zero?

 

1) AFAIK, this ("lying" about a player) was one time thing; a poor reaction to being chided. It was admitted to and apologized for and not likely to occur again. Let's not make it sound like this is an everyday occurrence.

 

2) You have a very small percentage of players complaining. Haven't heard a peep from Li. And while there are a few pros other than Rickie and Justin mentioning not liking the new Rules (or some such), they're not whining about them. They're saying things like "We'll get used to them". Maybe THEY actually read about the major changes coming ?

 

3) You need to get out more. Bettinardi and Odyssey have long putters on the rack right now.

No peep from Li, and no complaint from Schenk.

And the USGA definitely lied, but none of us know which Tweet contained it. It is absolutely possible that the first was accurate, and the second a strategic choice (to lie) to defuse tension and help the process move forward. If the first tweet WAS accurate, the USGA still wouldn't have done anything positive by documenting every phone call, invitation, and meeting that Justin failed to take. Does anyone think that Justin would have shown up at the presser and said "They're right, I apologize, I refused to take their calls, and never went to a single one of the Rules meetings the USGA invited the players to attend." I'm glad we haven't heard anything from any of them for the last week or so, none of this should ever have been aired for the general public to see.

And as much as I like that Rickie honors Arnold Palmer, did Rickie ever consider what Mr Palmer would think of his on-course behavior?

[Ashley Schaeffer]

^^^

Well, fortunately for JT, he didn't have to say that at a press conference because it didn't happen. Saying that publicly would be a lie. This according to him and the USGA.

[davep043]

^^^

Well, fortunately for JT, he didn't have to say that at a press conference because it didn't happen. Saying that publicly would be a lie. This according to him and the USGA.

None of us know the details, the real truth behind the public posturing.

JT is almost certainly covering his own a** to an extent. He chose NOT to communicate at times, saying he's too busy to do it during a 3-week long stretch when he was playing tournaments. He doesn't say it that way, of course, that would make him look bad. And really, he couldn't carve out an hour or two on Monday or Tuesday, if it was that important to him? Notice he didn't say "The USGA didn't answer my calls," so he apparently didn't try. That's based on what HE said, or didn't say, and he certainly would have used that in his self-defense if it had been true.

Again, I don't know the truth, neither do you.