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Yet another penalty around new rules error


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Not true and you can beat that drum as long as you like. You are off base on both your comment about the ladies caddies not realigning them and on your attempt to make it sound like the men were either doing it before or suddenly started. The men's caddies are HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE SHOT as they have done forever but a poorly written rule is causing issues.

 

I have no doubt based on your ridiculous arguments that you know this but just can't manage to admit you are completely off base and wrong.

It is amazing to me that so many folks clearly do not read posts in their entirety. I have never said the ladies were not getting help. But in a lot of LPGA viewing-both in person and on television- I have never seen a caddie call the player off and realign. Perhaps you have.

So some feel the men are just conversing about the shot? Fair enough. Except in the first-as I recall- penalty of the new year with Li on the green the caddie was peering very intently at the line as he took his stance. Certainly appeared to be assisting with the line but if that's just talking well okey dokey then. Same with Schenk. He was over a bunker shot and says they were discussing "where to land" the ball. IMO that is a matter of semantics as to is that aligning the player. I would say yes. Same as helping a player start a drive at a tree in the distance.

 

But hey-that is why we are here. To discuss golf. Different opinions are ok and neither is in the wrong. Unless you say so I guess.

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Why are the men getting nicked now? Do they just try to push the rules more than the ladies or do they think they will not get called for it? It is really quite simple. When you are about to take your stance get the caddie the heck away from behind you. It is as easy as the drop rule but for some reason the men do not seem to have read the rules.

 

I still say it’s because of the wording. If it had said you cannot be behind the ball while the player is in their stance, that would have eliminated the issue from the LPGA, because they stay there until JUST prior to the swing. And you wouldnt have seen any men’s penalties. Because it says “when they start to take a stance”, that catches the men”s caddies. Because you didn’t see them sit behind their player for a prolonged time like on the LPGA

I think the rule had to define the time fairly clearly, and I'm not sure that "while the player is in their stance" is definitive enough. In addition, if the caddie doesn't have to move until after the player is "in his stance", it still allows some assistance while the player is getting set, and that potential for assistance is the behavior they're trying to eliminate. To me, "begins to take his stance" is a pretty reasonable time limit, and the examples in the rules make it at least reasonably clear.

And for the last sentence, Schenk's caddie really WAS there for a good while, as Schenk was digging his feet in and getting set up. He claimed he needed to be there, but I'm not sure that's accurate, he could have moved to the side and still discussed the options with Schenk.

Oh, I’m not complaining about it Dave. Just offering up to Shilgy why I think the me are getting nicked more frequently right now (and the fact they’ve played more events is a factor also). I didnt see the Schenk situation so I can’t comment there. I thought the first penalty called, on the Chinese player, was a perfect example. What he did wasn’t remotely similar to what was happening on the LPGA. Which is where I believe the perceived need for this rule came from.

 

You need to watch the Schenk video, it's even more ridiculous and more obvious what the caddie was doing.

In that video Schenk said what they were doing. Choosing where to land the ball. With the player in his stance and the caddie behind that is alignment assistance.

 

....Schenk in his stance...."hit it to that spot...."that one?"....."no, a little right of that"..... That is alignment assistance.

Titleist TSR4 9° Tensei AV White 65

Titleist TSi3 strong 3w 13.5° Tensei AV White 70

Titleist TS3 19°  hybrid Tensei Blue/Titleist TSR3 24° Diamana Ahina

Titleist T150 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125

Vokey SM8 50° F & 56° M SM9 60°M

Cameron Newport w/ flow neck by Lamont/ Cameron Del Mar

 



 

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If I have this straight, and my wife often says I don't, the ladies were vilified for this awful awful behavior. When it was legal. Now that the men are getting lined up, ala Schenk in the link a couple posts up, they should boycott the rule as unfair.

Does that about cover it?

 

PS our assistant pro realized there is a bit of a loophole in this rule. On the putting green the caddie can help the player line up... By helping line up the alignment line on the ball... Them the player steps away and resets but the alignment "help" is still there. Clearly legal but against the spirit of the aim of the rule to make players line themselves up.

 

Again with the ridiculousness. The women may have gotten ripped by some people ( not me) but there was no penalty being issued. He was not getting lined up. Listen to your wife more often

 

If you would like to understand, which I highly doubt. I want you to do everything with your opposite hand for a day and Everytime you screw up you are obligated to slam your head into a wall as punishment. There's no sudden urge to line up players on the PGA tour ( no matter how many times you say it, it will not change reality) but there is an issue with trying to overcome hundreds of thousands of repetitions over the years on how they prepare for shots and how the talk with their caddie. I'm not really sure why an intelligent felliw like yourself sees the need to play dumb to such a degree.

It is ever such a joy engaging with a kind poster such as yourself. The ladies did it almost every shot. Most of them anyways. There were a few exceptions. And they have stopped. Some men employed the same assistance(you will likely ask who and I will reply it was rare enough I do not recall). But if they are just conversing as you say then there is no reason with the new rule for the caddie to be BEHIND the player. Why would he be there if not to help align? Generally the player and caddie stand side by side with the bag between them. The player will pull a club and the caddie steps aside.

 

Why would the caddie move behind him at that point? Is there something that is easier to discuss with the caddie behind rather that next to?

Titleist TSR4 9° Tensei AV White 65

Titleist TSi3 strong 3w 13.5° Tensei AV White 70

Titleist TS3 19°  hybrid Tensei Blue/Titleist TSR3 24° Diamana Ahina

Titleist T150 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125

Vokey SM8 50° F & 56° M SM9 60°M

Cameron Newport w/ flow neck by Lamont/ Cameron Del Mar

 



 

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If I have this straight, and my wife often says I don't, the ladies were vilified for this awful awful behavior. When it was legal. Now that the men are getting lined up, ala Schenk in the link a couple posts up, they should boycott the rule as unfair.

Does that about cover it?

 

PS our assistant pro realized there is a bit of a loophole in this rule. On the putting green the caddie can help the player line up... By helping line up the alignment line on the ball... Them the player steps away and resets but the alignment "help" is still there. Clearly legal but against the spirit of the aim of the rule to make players line themselves up.

 

So you’re saying your wife is on our side of the argument?

 

This is starting to get weird for me.

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If I have this straight, and my wife often says I don't, the ladies were vilified for this awful awful behavior. When it was legal. Now that the men are getting lined up, ala Schenk in the link a couple posts up, they should boycott the rule as unfair.

Does that about cover it?

 

PS our assistant pro realized there is a bit of a loophole in this rule. On the putting green the caddie can help the player line up... By helping line up the alignment line on the ball... Them the player steps away and resets but the alignment "help" is still there. Clearly legal but against the spirit of the aim of the rule to make players line themselves up.

 

So you're saying your wife is on our side of the argument?

 

This is starting to get weird for me.

That would explain the disconnect if that is how you understood what I wrote.

Titleist TSR4 9° Tensei AV White 65

Titleist TSi3 strong 3w 13.5° Tensei AV White 70

Titleist TS3 19°  hybrid Tensei Blue/Titleist TSR3 24° Diamana Ahina

Titleist T150 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125

Vokey SM8 50° F & 56° M SM9 60°M

Cameron Newport w/ flow neck by Lamont/ Cameron Del Mar

 



 

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If I have this straight, and my wife often says I don't, the ladies were vilified for this awful awful behavior. When it was legal. Now that the men are getting lined up, ala Schenk in the link a couple posts up, they should boycott the rule as unfair.

Does that about cover it?

 

PS our assistant pro realized there is a bit of a loophole in this rule. On the putting green the caddie can help the player line up... By helping line up the alignment line on the ball... Them the player steps away and resets but the alignment "help" is still there. Clearly legal but against the spirit of the aim of the rule to make players line themselves up.

 

So you're saying your wife is on our side of the argument?

 

This is starting to get weird for me.

That would explain the disconnect if that is how you understood what I wrote.

 

Disconnect with me or the wife??

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