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Football and basketball are the two sports where it takes less money. In football you can't teach size and speed. Basketball you can play on a local court or gym somewhere. That is why there so many minorities at the highest levels in both. Many from very humble or very poor beginnings. In the USA, baseball now takes money for travel leagues. Same for hockey and some others. Golf still takes some money because at some point you are going to have to pay for green fees and likely lessons.

 

 

had to laugh a little....playing at a local court or gym somewhere...isn't that equivalent to playing golf at a public/muni course? if most of these players were ending up in the NFL/NBA from playing around on local grounds only, every one would be doing it... indeed, they are minorities mainly but most go through the college path, where the colleges pour a ton of money into the athletes for them to manifest their size and speed.....then they end up in the NFL/NBA...far from cheap...even relatively.

 

No, playing golf cost money even at the local course. Many, a very large number, of college football and basketball players(at the D1 level) come from very humble upbringings. D1 football and basketball are the equivalent of the web.com tour by that point. it is basically a minor league to the pros at that level. Look at the demographics of basketball and football. Far different that golf.

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Travel hockey parents would like you to consider their investment.

Deep talent, desire and work ethic is waaaay more important.   Look up all the stories of guys who hit balls in the backyard, garage into mattress, etc.   If you have the game people will back you, t

> @Fairways_and_Greens said: > > @RichieHunt said: > > > > > 2. The player that has marginal golf skills, but has a great mentality to be a Tour player. They have the

A. Guys from skid row don’t play golf. Of course thre are tremendous golf talents there but they will never play golf.

B. For working class guys, some do play, after their soccer or hockey career, and if their work careers have turned out fine. Their sons and daughters might have an outside chance of starting playing early.

C. For white collar people without an academical degree, living in a neighbourhood of small houses(transfer that to whatever may be in your home country) a portion of people will start play at an early age. Their kids might start playing early. The parents might have some resouces, might be able to afford time and money to let a child pursue a golfing career, but it will be something odd. Kids are supposed to get a job. And more seldom will the parents have a background of competing, of really taking chances. Work is in the blood. Few people become artists, journalists, entrepeneurs or sports proffessionals.

D. If you come from a background and neighbourhood of wealth or academical success, competing and/or success is nothing strange, mothers will curl you(statistically, yes they will, and more than the fathers) and success is more important than the concept of a ”job”. The probability that a child from this kind of background will succeed as a golf pro is of course very much higher than for children from he other groups.

 

Tiger was something of a mystery to me until I learned that his mother is from a well-to-do family and that it was she that pushed Tiger most. Then Tiger made sense to me. But I still think that the way to success was easier for guys like Jack, Kuch, Spieth and Snedeker. Then there will of course be the odd Billy Horschel.

 

Both Annika, Jesper and Henrik came from success backgrounds.

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For Tiger, I’d always heard that IMG paying his Dad to be a talent scout helped fund some of his junior golf.

That might be true but according to Eldrick himself it was his mother that pushed him. So what I said goes for him goes for the other guys from the better parts of town, given that he got some travelling money.

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Money may help but it does not beat talent.

 

talent cannot be realized without a medium in which to present it.

 

money helps provide the medium -- rarely can someone coming from nothing have enough range time or disposable income to get to facilities or support in which their talents can be honed.

 

Ben Hogan made it without money, so did Tiger, they worked their butt off. Talent and passion trump money, if someone wants something bad enough they find a way to make it happen. Having money can be a crutch, most of the rich kids at my country clubs don't have the work ethic or drive required to be a pro. They may be good enough to reach scratch with great swings and gear but lack the fire needed to be one of the best 150 in the world.

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Sam Saunders is only on tour because of Arnold. There are lots of guys that if you gave 10-12 starts a year would be able to keep a card. Problem is getting that chance.

There's not a lot of guys who if given 10-12 starts would keep a card. And the ones who would are top 150 in the OWGR and at the top of the money list on a different tour.

 

Sam earned his card with his play. He earned his Web.com card through Q School and his PGA Tour card through Web.com Tour twice.

 

I would never say that any tour player didn't earn their way. The competition is way to fierce for them not to. You are either good enough or you are not. Money just gets you more chances to be good enough. I was shooting low 70's as a broke 17 year old that played 10 times a year and practiced once a week if that. If given the chance to have help, play more often, and play nicer courses, go to camps, etc. Who knows what would have happened.

 

Most likely the same result but I don't know that.

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To make it playing it takes 1) Money. 2) Guts. 3) An internal desire and focus to win. 4) Talent.

3 of those things can't be taught or bought. To have a chance you need money or financial backing, and you need to be accepting and willing to lose it all in order to make it.

With no direct path to the PGA Tour from q school, it has made having money that much more important. Size of the purses on canadian, latin, or web tour don't offset the costs and expenses, they just give you a chance to make it to the big show.

 

Bottom line is- Guys that make it have earned their way there, and they deserve it. But the money it takes to get there can't be overlooked. Would love to see the average cost that a player spent on golf over his lifetime just to make it to his first year on the PGA Tour.

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I know this thread has been inundated with similar opinions at this point, but my two cents... I have a very close friend who grew up in money. Best teacher in the state, parents could afford the best lessons and the best clubs and unlimited rounds etc. His parents even bought a home in Florida while he was in high school so he could play year round. He's an unbelievable player skill wise and realistically has the talent to make it. The issue though is that his mental game is not even close to where it needs to be. That to me, above anything else, proves that while money is going to have a huge factor in who makes it, it's the few who have that incredible mental game that will ultimately come out on top

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Bottom line....

 

1) Money opens up more opportunity

2) The individual dictates what becomes of any opportunity.

 

My kid loved motocross at 4 years old. He wanted to race. His mother and I at the time (late 90's) had a combined household income of 100k.

 

In order to support this activity, I had to learn how to tear down and rebuild a 50cc motor and and work on every part of the one bike I could afford at the time.

 

The fastest kid at the time was supported by his family's business. They had two bikes ready to race at all time, a practice track and a RV that contained a shop and sleeping quarters.

 

He won just about every local race and finished very high in all the regional, and national events. Due to this, he became sponsored very early in his career.

 

Today he is competing for the national snowcross championship.

 

My son could never compete even locally with the talent of this kid.

It wasn't the financial advantages. Deep inside, my son didn't have the inner drive nor confidence to compete at this kids level.

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If you ran enough regressions, you'd probably find that the kids who came from money were just more capable to begin with, regardless of what advantages they had financially.

 

You just read stories like Zach Johnson, who had to sell shares in himself early on to pay to compete....I just wonder how many other Zach Johnson's just said screw it, and became stockbrokers or something.

 

I mean he won a masters and probably came close to never being on tour at some point

 

He started playing Web.com Tour events only a year after turning pro. Won multiple Hooters Tour events, including 3 in a row early on. Even if he hadn't sold shares he was making money from essentially day one and showed promise very early in his pro career.

 

Maybe not the best example but came to mind, gotta be a lot of guys like that though where money is a concern before they decide to go pro or not. I'm sure they don't always go for it if they are educated guys who can get decent jobs elsewhere

 

If you go out to most any mini tour event, you will find plenty of guys who have been forced to go the route of selling shares in themselves or finding a single person from their network that has the means to fund them for a while.

 

I know of 5 guys that have needed to go the route of needing to ask those around them just based on where they come from. One guy raised over $100K, played well enough to put a little money in his pocket and pay the investors back, but got to the point that he was done making an attempt and now sells insurance. 2 more guys I know were able to raise $10-20K, got through a summer with enough mini tour, state open, and other tournament wins that they could pay people back and have some money to try it on their own. There is also one who is now working in car sales because he just could get enough money to keep it going anymore.

 

3 of them have worked at the club I belong to in some way, shape, or form and the others were friends of members or worked for a member in some way. Many times will ask for money games just to try to get a few extra bucks before leaving on a longer trip knowing full well they need the money. Some of them have what it takes and thrive under the pressure, some didn't. Watching them take on 6 or 7 members at a time was always a heck of a lot of fun.

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To make it playing it takes 1) Money. 2) Guts. 3) An internal desire and focus to win. 4) Talent.

3 of those things can't be taught or bought. To have a chance you need money or financial backing, and you need to be accepting and willing to lose it all in order to make it.

With no direct path to the PGA Tour from q school, it has made having money that much more important. Size of the purses on canadian, latin, or web tour don't offset the costs and expenses, they just give you a chance to make it to the big show.

 

Bottom line is- Guys that make it have earned their way there, and they deserve it. But the money it takes to get there can't be overlooked. Would love to see the average cost that a player spent on golf over his lifetime just to make it to his first year on the PGA Tour.

 

You can't discount the number of guys that came from money and couldn't make it on the Tour. Some guys that have to work hard to get the money, work harder at golf because it means more. These trust fund kids know they have their parents money to fall back on if they decide professional golf is too hard. Given equal talent, I'll put my money on a kid that had to work to get to q school versus a kid that was handed everything.

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Making it in golf requires opportunity. The easiest way to have opportunities is with money. Now that doesn’t mean you can’t do it otherwise but the opportunities either take more work or might require some luck. Born into money where the country club lifestyle is already in place makes the opportunity to be exposed to the game early is very easy. Born into poverty, when does the opportunity to touch a club come about? Yes in some places the chance for cheap golf exist. Here in northern NJ it really does not. Yes there are public courses where juniors can play for <$20 a round but they don’t have the practice facilities to really work on your game. No range that I’m aware of does an unlimited kind of membership, no junior bucket rates etc and there is no such thing as a private club that is under 10k a year. Now in other areas sure, the opportunity exists, private clubs might offer junior membership for pennies on the dollar, ranges might offer work for free buckets or something but a person coming from less than high means doesn’t have the opportunity right in front of them from a young age.

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Hitting balls at the range isn't cheap for kids

 

Say a kid wants to hit balls every day that's gotta be 300 a month, that's a lot of money for a non wealthy family

 

This is spot on. People also seem to forget golf isn`t really a sport where you can out in the backyard for some driving practice, maybe some short game if you`re lucky. Therefore the range is basically a must have.

 

Probably why baseball is dying. You can go shoot hoops at the park or dribble or mess around with a soccer ball by yourself. Baseball you can't even really throw without at least one other kid or a bucket of balls and a backstop.

 

With golf you can hit the little wiffle balls in the back yard or chip and pitch if you are careful with a modest backyard. But you are correct, you really need a range and the cash to get you a bucket or two of balls (not to mention clubs) to do you much good.

 

You just read stories like Zach Johnson, who had to sell shares in himself early on to pay to compete....I just wonder how many other Zach Johnson's just said screw it, and became stockbrokers or something.

 

I mean he won a masters and probably came close to never being on tour at some point

 

He started playing Web.com Tour events only a year after turning pro. Won multiple Hooters Tour events, including 3 in a row early on. Even if he hadn't sold shares he was making money from essentially day one and showed promise very early in his pro career.

 

Is it fair to say that you cannot live on the purses on the lower tours unless you are winning and winning often? I guess what i am saying is that you can likely not be a full-time pro golfer on the "farm system" tours unless you are winning. If you are consistently winning you won't be there for long.

 

There are career minor league baseball and career AHL hockey players. Are there career Web.com guys? Can you financially do that?

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Sam Saunders is only on tour because of Arnold. There are lots of guys that if you gave 10-12 starts a year would be able to keep a card. Problem is getting that chance.

There's not a lot of guys who if given 10-12 starts would keep a card. And the ones who would are top 150 in the OWGR and at the top of the money list on a different tour.

 

Sam earned his card with his play. He earned his Web.com card through Q School and his PGA Tour card through Web.com Tour twice.

 

I would never say that any tour player didn't earn their way. The competition is way to fierce for them not to. You are either good enough or you are not. Money just gets you more chances to be good enough. I was shooting low 70's as a broke 17 year old that played 10 times a year and practiced once a week if that. If given the chance to have help, play more often, and play nicer courses, go to camps, etc. Who knows what would have happened.

 

Most likely the same result but I don't know that.

Golf clubs are amazingly supportive of talent. If you would have wanted you would have gone hat in hand and offered to work at a local club. That would have given you the opportunity to practice and play.

 

At least that has been my experience in Minnesota and Arizona.

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The two most important things for success in sports are talent and drive. Then come intangibles and money. Golf is more similar to baseball and soccer when it comes to the intangibles. Size, speed, and strength can all be overcome depending on play style and/or position. Money is the big difference maker in golf.

 

If your parents don’t play, you probably won’t be playing much. You also may not be a member at a course. A parent on a tight budget is not going to understand why clubs cost so much, why free fees cost so much, why lessons cost so much, I know mine didn’t. My first clubs were the Walmart single him special. Nothing was close to fitting. And when I went to group lessons, I didn’t get much time. I didn’t realize it til later, but trying to teach me anything with that mismatched group of clubs was a fools errand. Greens fees were $20 which was a huge sum for a 9 hole muni. And I was footing the bill. I’m not a good player now but I’m also not saying I would have been great.

 

Money is a huge difference maker in golf. Everyone in here claiming tiger didn’t have much money is correct. Tiger also never had to pay for anything growing up. He wasn’t charged for greens fees, range buckets, instructions, caddying, etc. he only had to cover tournament costs and travel fees. And those were expenses covered by IMG. Earl was paid as a talent scout specifically to ensure tiger would sing when he turned pro.

 

 

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So, there is a definite advantage to having the money (parents or sponsorship), because it gives you the freedom to not have to work a job to pay your entry fees, and you don't have to make a check to keep your power on. When you aren't playing with the added pressure of playing for your supper, it can free you up, which give you a better chance (not guaranteed, just a better chance) for success.

 

I played some mini tour golf, and was never in a situation where I could completely focus on golf. I had to work a full time job, and then try to get enough practice in to be competitive. I was never able to be competitive on a consistent basis, due partly to the fact that I couldn't devote 60+ hours a week to practice and play. That fact was also partly due to the fact that I chose my wife and kids over golf. Wouldn't change that for the world.

 

I don't think you have to have money to be successful, because without the drive to be great, you never will be. No matter how much money you have. With that being said, money sure can make things easier!

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Hitting balls at the range isn't cheap for kids

 

Say a kid wants to hit balls every day that's gotta be 300 a month, that's a lot of money for a non wealthy family

 

This is spot on. People also seem to forget golf isn`t really a sport where you can out in the backyard for some driving practice, maybe some short game if you`re lucky. Therefore the range is basically a must have.

 

Probably why baseball is dying. You can go shoot hoops at the park or dribble or mess around with a soccer ball by yourself. Baseball you can't even really throw without at least one other kid or a bucket of balls and a backstop.

 

With golf you can hit the little wiffle balls in the back yard or chip and pitch if you are careful with a modest backyard. But you are correct, you really need a range and the cash to get you a bucket or two of balls (not to mention clubs) to do you much good.

 

You just read stories like Zach Johnson, who had to sell shares in himself early on to pay to compete....I just wonder how many other Zach Johnson's just said screw it, and became stockbrokers or something.

 

I mean he won a masters and probably came close to never being on tour at some point

 

He started playing Web.com Tour events only a year after turning pro. Won multiple Hooters Tour events, including 3 in a row early on. Even if he hadn't sold shares he was making money from essentially day one and showed promise very early in his pro career.

 

Is it fair to say that you cannot live on the purses on the lower tours unless you are winning and winning often? I guess what i am saying is that you can likely not be a full-time pro golfer on the "farm system" tours unless you are winning. If you are consistently winning you won't be there for long.

 

There are career minor league baseball and career AHL hockey players. Are there career Web.com guys? Can you financially do that?

 

Define living? You absolutely can pay rent and cover expenses without winning often. And at the minor minor level if you’re not cashing a check almost every event you’re not good enough. The gap is way bigger than most realize and the guys who make it dominate at the lower levels. There’s guys who can’t make cuts on the Web.com level who still can make $70-100k a year playing mini tours here in Florida.

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Money and golf are no different than other sports/money situation. ...money can definitely help. I would say golf falls in the middle of most sports/activities and how expensive they can be at the upper level. When you start comparing golf to other niche sports...it may be less expensive than most, actually...just look at the "Is Golf Your Most Expensive Hobby" thread.

Like someone said 4 pages ago...compared to breaking into high level bass fishing tournaments...it's cheaper...and the payback for golf is WAY better...lol. I think peoples stress level is definitely affected by money..or lack of it. I know mine is..

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A guy in my men's club has a 13 year old boy who is in the AJGA world and he told me he just bought a travel van because he spent $25K last year on hotels alone. Both parents work and their kid is an only child. All these sports have become businesses that work off the carrot that the kid could one day become a pro or get a college scholarship. Hockey, soccer, basketaball and all the rest have a club world that is primarily funded by parents funding this "dream" for their kid. Yet if you tell them the odds are way better for their kid to become a Doctor by quite a margin they rarely would spend the same money on extras to get that done. The obsession with sport sucks the fun out of it for a lot of the kids and parents and leaves a lot of the people bitter when it's done. Without the access to all the things necessary to become a pro athlete the chances are like the odds of getting an albatross in golf- very slim. Money can help provide the access. A lot of money can get the better coaching. A lot more money can pay for the portals to top competitions. But eventually the player has to post a number and that number is good enough or it isn't. If it isn't they end up playing against a guy like me in City tourneys and still getting beat because while they out drive me by 70 yards they can't make a 5 footer on grainy muni greens when it counts.

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Again- the internal desire to win and be the absolute best. Every player on tour has this confidence, borderline arrogance and cockiness, that they believe they are the best. Can't be bought.

 

BUT, show me the average of what it cost for a player to get to the PGA tour (junior golf, college golf, expenses q schools) ...it will blow your mind. You don't just move to Jupiter or Sea Island after college to play professional golf without being flush with cash.

 

When q school was a direct path to the PGA tour, average age of graduates was around 29-31. Those guys had to have ways to make ends meet for more than half a decade..and you can't sustain it on the mini tours.

 

Regardless, if you're good enough, you'll find a way to make it to the show. "Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't want to work hard"

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A guy in my men's club has a 13 year old boy who is in the AJGA world and he told me he just bought a travel van because he spent $25K last year on hotels alone. Both parents work and their kid is an only child. All these sports have become businesses that work off the carrot that the kid could one day become a pro or get a college scholarship. Hockey, soccer, basketaball and all the rest have a club world that is primarily funded by parents funding this "dream" for their kid. Yet if you tell them the odds are way better for their kid to become a Doctor by quite a margin they rarely would spend the same money on extras to get that done. The obsession with sport sucks the fun out of it for a lot of the kids and parents and leaves a lot of the people bitter when it's done. Without the access to all the things necessary to become a pro athlete the chances are like the odds of getting an albatross in golf- very slim. Money can help provide the access. A lot of money can get the better coaching. A lot more money can pay for the portals to top competitions. But eventually the player has to post a number and that number is good enough or it isn't. If it isn't they end up playing against a guy like me in City tourneys and still getting beat because while they out drive me by 70 yards they can't make a 5 footer on grainy muni greens when it counts.

 

They are full of it or wasting a ton of money. A 13 year old is only gonna play at most 6 AJGAs a year, most of which are going to be 2 day events at that age. Most Web.com guys can spend less than $25k a year on hotels playing a full season.

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Anyone that wants to witness first hand the cross-section of virtually every example mentioned in this thread should head down to Florida and play in the pro-am portion of a mini-tour event. I've played in 15 or so over the years and they are fascinating...

 

And they aren't that expensive to play as an amateur.

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A guy in my men's club has a 13 year old boy who is in the AJGA world and he told me he just bought a travel van because he spent $25K last year on hotels alone. Both parents work and their kid is an only child. All these sports have become businesses that work off the carrot that the kid could one day become a pro or get a college scholarship. Hockey, soccer, basketaball and all the rest have a club world that is primarily funded by parents funding this "dream" for their kid. Yet if you tell them the odds are way better for their kid to become a Doctor by quite a margin they rarely would spend the same money on extras to get that done. The obsession with sport sucks the fun out of it for a lot of the kids and parents and leaves a lot of the people bitter when it's done. Without the access to all the things necessary to become a pro athlete the chances are like the odds of getting an albatross in golf- very slim. Money can help provide the access. A lot of money can get the better coaching. A lot more money can pay for the portals to top competitions. But eventually the player has to post a number and that number is good enough or it isn't. If it isn't they end up playing against a guy like me in City tourneys and still getting beat because while they out drive me by 70 yards they can't make a 5 footer on grainy muni greens when it counts.

 

They are full of it or wasting a ton of money. A 13 year old is only gonna play at most 6 AJGAs a year, most of which are going to be 2 day events at that age. Most Web.com guys can spend less than $25k a year on hotels playing a full season.

 

But there are more than just AJGAs out there. We have a kid at my club and he is on Tour. It's almost every week during the golf season. His parents are spending a fortune. However, this is his only hobby and he apparently loves it.

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A guy in my men's club has a 13 year old boy who is in the AJGA world and he told me he just bought a travel van because he spent $25K last year on hotels alone. Both parents work and their kid is an only child. All these sports have become businesses that work off the carrot that the kid could one day become a pro or get a college scholarship. Hockey, soccer, basketaball and all the rest have a club world that is primarily funded by parents funding this "dream" for their kid. Yet if you tell them the odds are way better for their kid to become a Doctor by quite a margin they rarely would spend the same money on extras to get that done. The obsession with sport sucks the fun out of it for a lot of the kids and parents and leaves a lot of the people bitter when it's done. Without the access to all the things necessary to become a pro athlete the chances are like the odds of getting an albatross in golf- very slim. Money can help provide the access. A lot of money can get the better coaching. A lot more money can pay for the portals to top competitions. But eventually the player has to post a number and that number is good enough or it isn't. If it isn't they end up playing against a guy like me in City tourneys and still getting beat because while they out drive me by 70 yards they can't make a 5 footer on grainy muni greens when it counts.

 

They are full of it or wasting a ton of money. A 13 year old is only gonna play at most 6 AJGAs a year, most of which are going to be 2 day events at that age. Most Web.com guys can spend less than $25k a year on hotels playing a full season.

 

But there are more than just AJGAs out there. We have a kid at my club and he is on Tour. It's almost every week during the golf season. His parents are spending a fortune. However, this is his only hobby and he apparently loves it.

 

It wouldn’t cost $25k in hotels. 13 year old should maybe be playing 10-12 multiday events a year. And that’s pushing it.

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A guy in my men's club has a 13 year old boy who is in the AJGA world and he told me he just bought a travel van because he spent $25K last year on hotels alone. Both parents work and their kid is an only child. All these sports have become businesses that work off the carrot that the kid could one day become a pro or get a college scholarship. Hockey, soccer, basketaball and all the rest have a club world that is primarily funded by parents funding this "dream" for their kid. Yet if you tell them the odds are way better for their kid to become a Doctor by quite a margin they rarely would spend the same money on extras to get that done. The obsession with sport sucks the fun out of it for a lot of the kids and parents and leaves a lot of the people bitter when it's done. Without the access to all the things necessary to become a pro athlete the chances are like the odds of getting an albatross in golf- very slim. Money can help provide the access. A lot of money can get the better coaching. A lot more money can pay for the portals to top competitions. But eventually the player has to post a number and that number is good enough or it isn't. If it isn't they end up playing against a guy like me in City tourneys and still getting beat because while they out drive me by 70 yards they can't make a 5 footer on grainy muni greens when it counts.

 

They are full of it or wasting a ton of money. A 13 year old is only gonna play at most 6 AJGAs a year, most of which are going to be 2 day events at that age. Most Web.com guys can spend less than $25k a year on hotels playing a full season.

 

But there are more than just AJGAs out there. We have a kid at my club and he is on Tour. It's almost every week during the golf season. His parents are spending a fortune. However, this is his only hobby and he apparently loves it.

 

It wouldn't cost $25k in hotels. 13 year old should maybe be playing 10-12 multiday events a year. And that's pushing it.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just saying there are some kids and parents out there that take it to the next level for these youngsters. Someone earlier in the thread had an example of someone buying a second home in Florida. We had a member move his entire family to Orlando for their son's golf. It worked - he's already been on the golf channel and he's going to Alabama next year.

SYard T388
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Miura CB-57 3-PW
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Kind of depends on the level of hotel, and the number of rooms each time, doesn’t it? Maybe they empty the mini bar and fridge every day too.

 

Probably exaggerating a bit, but who knows. Some people are world class at spending money.

 

Stay in the Ritz every night and it would get expensive.

SYard T388
TaylorMade RBZ 13-15
Miura CB-57 3-PW
Miura 51Y, 52K,56K, 57C, 60K
Old Titleist Blade

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Performance = Potential – Interference

 

money solves a lot of interference problems (like an afterschool job to pay for clubs and balls etc)

 

I think almost* all individual sports are more expensive as the material costs are distributed amongst the group, these guys are also set up as independent contractors so unlike joining a team they are responsible for all of their earnings so. For most non-superstars on a full ride, the startup phase is almost impossible (travel, food, entry fee, caddy, coach, etc) without seed capital.

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