My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

[Exactice808]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > If you're attempting to lay-up to your preference of 90 yards, and it ends up at 102 yards, that's still a miss...and now you're not in optimal position for the next shot. It's really no different than failing to carry a bunker or penalty area on an approach shot to the green.

> > Absolutely! That is "still a miss" that I and many people suffer from. So by debate sake.... Will that SGI save me the stroke or not? Its more forgiving factually...but does that translate back to saving me a stroke or making my score better.

> >

> > The discussion was the acceptance of proximity. While a great rule of thumb closer proximity is better....But its not universal and players preference of shot is likely another factor that could be a major factor player to player no?

> >

> >

>

> Proximity becomes a major issue when you face forced carries over bunkers, water, or other penalty area. Using clubs that will help your ball stay in the air longer, and carry farther when you dont quite strike it perfectly is a tangible advantage that saves strokes...sometimes multiple strokes on a given hole.

 

YES! all justified sound statement I cannot disagree.

So what about players that never really have issues getting the ball in the air. I have been a very fortunate player in my carrer for whatever its worth to be able to get the ball in the air. So Launch has never really been a calculated loss. For a player like me unfortunately I have face angle @ impact issues. I am quite handsy so I have a wider dispersion left and right rather than forward and back. Which I know I am some type of anomaly, But I dont feel, or see or have data to justify that a switch to CB's on all my irons would be beneficial.

 

What would be beneficial? Practice? as lots of it, once I can get a consistent swing the game usually comes together quite well.

 

So again YES 100% your general statement is correct, but with this thread "My Experience" I am sharing my experience to provide data so someone hopefully evaluates them selves to better justify their use of blades. I know when I first came on GolfWRX 6 years ago and played blades I was as scumbag liar and a horrible mid handicapper..... Now I realized my faults I realized my realities learned to play better golf and then recalculated based on data and experience not on hopes, dreams and unicorns.

 

 

*Edit*

dpb just for fun! If you dont mind...... Lets use the mid to highhandicapper as the example of a miss hit near the green.

 

In comparison to their short game and relations to their choice of MBs vs CB's Do you REALLY think that the forgiveness benefit is inherently better in relation to the score?

 

I have seen my share as well as being a high/mid handicapper that had a terrible weak short game period. 50 yards and in period, chunks, skulls, swipes, chilli dips etc....

 

When approaching a green with your "iron of choice" we can agree their GIR are no better than 50%. 50% of the time they are still using their short game to scramble that CB netting them better proximity did it really make a difference?

 

[dpb5031]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > If you're attempting to lay-up to your preference of 90 yards, and it ends up at 102 yards, that's still a miss...and now you're not in optimal position for the next shot. It's really no different than failing to carry a bunker or penalty area on an approach shot to the green.

> > > Absolutely! That is "still a miss" that I and many people suffer from. So by debate sake.... Will that SGI save me the stroke or not? Its more forgiving factually...but does that translate back to saving me a stroke or making my score better.

> > >

> > > The discussion was the acceptance of proximity. While a great rule of thumb closer proximity is better....But its not universal and players preference of shot is likely another factor that could be a major factor player to player no?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Proximity becomes a major issue when you face forced carries over bunkers, water, or other penalty area. Using clubs that will help your ball stay in the air longer, and carry farther when you dont quite strike it perfectly is a tangible advantage that saves strokes...sometimes multiple strokes on a given hole.

>

> YES! all justified sound statement I cannot disagree.

> So what about players that never really have issues getting the ball in the air. I have been a very fortunate player in my carrer for whatever its worth to be able to get the ball in the air. So Launch has never really been a calculated loss. For a player like me unfortunately I have face angle @ impact issues. I am quite handsy so I have a wider dispersion left and right rather than forward and back. Which I know I am some type of anomaly, But I dont feel, or see or have data to justify that a switch to CB's on all my irons would be beneficial.

>

> What would be beneficial? Practice? as lots of it, once I can get a consistent swing the game usually comes together quite well.

>

> So again YES 100% your general statement is correct, but with this thread "My Experience" I am sharing my experience to provide data so someone hopefully evaluates them selves to better justify their use of blades. I know when I first came on GolfWRX 6 years ago and played blades I was as scumbag liar and a horrible mid handicapper..... Now I realized my faults I realized my realities learned to play better golf and then recalculated based on data and experience not on hopes, dreams and unicorns.

>

>

> *Edit*

> dpb just for fun! If you dont mind...... Lets use the mid to highhandicapper as the example of a miss hit near the green.

>

> In comparison to their short game and relations to their choice of MBs vs CB's Do you REALLY think that the forgiveness benefit is inherently better in relation to the score?

>

> I have seen my share as well as being a high/mid handicapper that had a terrible weak short game period. 50 yards and in period, chunks, skulls, swipes, chilli dips etc....

>

> When approaching a green with your "iron of choice" we can agree their GIR are no better than 50%. 50% of the time they are still using their short game to scramble that CB netting them better proximity did it really make a difference?

>

 

Yes, I think all other things being equal proximity to the hole makes a significant difference. There will always be anomalies (like a guy with chipping yips preferring a full wedge shot over a chip), and you might just be one of them, but generally being closer to the green is better.

[MelloYello]

@Exactice808

 

Forgive me but I don't remember what all you've said. Please provide me the follow information:

 

How long have you played?

What is your handicap?

How many rounds do you play per month?

How many hours do you practice each week?

What are you basic stats such as Fwy%, GiR% and putts per round?

[Exactice808]

> @dpb5031 said:

> Yes, I think all other things being equal proximity to the hole makes a significant difference. There will always be anomalies (like a guy with chipping yips preferring a full wedge shot over a chip), and you might just be one of them, but generally being closer to the green is better.

Again Zero disagreement with you point of proximity. I will say this with my skill set I am SUPER confident about my short game around the green lets say again 30 yards as that is the diameter of an average green. Be it up hill down hill, sand what ever....

 

But pertaining to those mid to high handicappers what do you think their scrambling numbers are. They are NOT only Mid to High handicappers because of miss shots to the green. There is just no way you can be a mid to high capper, with a weak iron game yet drive the ball dead straight, chip and putt well?

 

So I think there is a lot more to the mid to highcapper game then just the selection of an MB vs CB debate.... thats why I am participating so much in this crazy thread! LOL!

 

[dpb5031]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > Yes, I think all other things being equal proximity to the hole makes a significant difference. There will always be anomalies (like a guy with chipping yips preferring a full wedge shot over a chip), and you might just be one of them, but generally being closer to the green is better.

> Again Zero disagreement with you point of proximity. I will say this with my skill set I am SUPER confident about my short game around the green lets say again 30 yards as that is the circumference of an average green. Be it up hill down hil, sand what ever....

>

> But pertaining to those mid to high handicappers what do you think their scrambling numbers are. They are NOT only Mid to High handicappers because of miss shots to the green. There is just no way you can be a mid to high capper, with a weak iron game yet drive the ball dead straight, chip and putt well?

>

> So I think there is a lot more to the mid to highcapper game then just the selection of an MB vs CB debate.... thats why I am participating so much in this crazy thread! LOL!

>

 

Well, first you've got to get to the green or at least near it. Obviously every player has different strengths and weaknesses, but I think many kid themselves about what their true strengths and weaknesses are.

 

I'm simply a proponent of using the best tools for the job. The discussion here and in the other thread shifted toward the use of hybrids, but the same principles apply. I honestly think there are plenty of guys just fooling themselves about their true ability to execute reliably good shots with blades and long irons when more user-friendly options are available. Why use equipment that makes executing your intended shot MORE difficult than it has to be?

[Exactice808]

> @MelloYello said:

> @Exactice808

>

> Forgive me but I don't remember what all you've said. Please provide me the follow information:

>

> How long have you played?

> What is your handicap?

> How many rounds do you play per month?

> How many hours do you practice each week?

> What are you basic stats such as Fwy%, GiR% and putts per round?

 

Fair enough! If you want to have a fair discussion i am more than happy to do so! Can I ask that we just be respectful thats all?

 

How long have you played? - **_This is a 2 part question, got on the highschool golf team just to get free rounds of golf and free range balls. I took golf seriously about 7 years ago right before I joined golf WRX, prior to that I was one of those idiots that tried to hit the ball picker at the range and hate myself for that. LOL_**

 

What is your handicap? - **_Current? Honest handicap? probably a 14 or 15 right now at this moment. My lowest GHIN recorded was 7_**

 

How many rounds do you play per month? **_Prior to 2019, My 2018 taxes showed 78 rounds , so 6.5 rounds per month. My cumlative 7 years taxes shows about 525 rounds_**

 

How many hours do you practice each week?**_ 2018 I dont think I have ever really practiced, I think I went to the range about 3 times in 2018, before my kids were born pre, 2018 I went to practice likely 2-3 times a week, I also built my own truth board (I have a thread here on WRX) to putt like crazy in my apartment and that was HUGE for me) As for 2019, since I stopped playing golf almost cold turkey ( I have 7 rounds since the beginning of the year) I decided I will do a full swing revamp that has worked out tremendously. But just not enough practice or play time to solidify it._**

 

What are you basic stats such as Fwy%, GiR% and putts per round?

This is just off the phone app, sorry its not the best as I cant set parameters, meaning its all rounds logged. So to give an idea of 2019 vs 2018 or pre 2018 wont be a fair assessment. But Ill try

Total

Fairways - 44%

GIR - 39%

Average putts 1.9 putt - 34.2 putts per round

 

2019 - updated

Fairways - 36%

GIR -38%

Putt - 34.75

 

2018 -Updated

Fairways - 50%

GIR - 50%

Putt - 32.17

 

 

Hope this helps!

 

[nsxguy]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > Yes, I think all other things being equal proximity to the hole makes a significant difference. There will always be anomalies (like a guy with chipping yips preferring a full wedge shot over a chip), and you might just be one of them, but generally being closer to the green is better.

> Again Zero disagreement with you point of proximity. I will say this with my skill set I am SUPER confident about my short game around the green lets say again 30 yards as that is the circumference of an average green. Be it up hill down hil, sand what ever....

>

> But pertaining to those mid to high handicappers what do you think their scrambling numbers are. They are NOT only Mid to High handicappers because of miss shots to the green. There is just no way you can be a mid to high capper, with a weak iron game yet drive the ball dead straight, chip and putt well?

>

> So I think there is a lot more to the mid to highcapper game then just the selection of an MB vs CB debate.... thats why I am participating so much in this crazy thread! LOL!

>

 

Firstly, you mean diameter, not circumference. LOL

 

As you yourself suggest, I I agree, those mid and high handicappers are not where they are because they have a weak iron game and are strong(er) everywhere else. That is typically not the case.

 

Then you go and tell us you're a mid 'capper (around 15 IIRC) and you are "super confident" in your short game. While I agree that's far more likely than being a great ball striker and having a terrible short game, that still makes you an "exception", yes ?

 

But forgetting "confidence" for a moment how good IS your short game ? For example, let's take a very straightforward chip. Front pin. About 15 feet from the fringe to the pin and you're about 10 feet short of the green and the ground is even slightly uphill.

 

How many times out of 10 do you get that shot up and down ?

 

 

Now, from an earlier post, you said "_**So my whole discussion from my first post was if you are a serious player which I am, but I also like to have fun**_".

 

Can you explain what the difference (and the similarity for that matter) is between a "serious player" and one who is "playing for fun" ?

 

TIA

[nsxguy]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > @Exactice808

> >

> > Forgive me but I don't remember what all you've said. Please provide me the follow information:

> >

> > How long have you played?

> > What is your handicap?

> > How many rounds do you play per month?

> > How many hours do you practice each week?

> > What are you basic stats such as Fwy%, GiR% and putts per round?

>

> Fair enough! If you want to have a fair discussion i am more than happy to do so! Can I ask that we just be respectful thats all?

>

> How long have you played? - _**This is a 2 part question, got on the highschool golf team just to get free rounds of golf and free range balls. I took golf seriously about 7 years ago right before I joined golf WRX, prior to that I was one of those idiots that tried to hit the ball picker at the range and hate myself for that. LOL **_

> What is your handicap? - **_Current? Honest handicap? probably a 14 or 15 right now at this moment. My lowest GHIN recorded was 7_**

> How many rounds do you play per month? **_Prior to 2019, My 2018 taxes showed 78 rounds , so 6.5 rounds per month. My cumlative 7 years taxes shows about 525 rounds_**

> How many hours do you practice each week?**_ 2018 I dont think I have ever really practiced, I think I went to the range about 3 times in 2018, before my kids were born pre, 2018 I went to practice likely 2-3 times a week, I also built my own truth board (I have a thread here on WRX) to putt like crazy in my apartment and that was HUGE for me) As for 2019, since I stopped playing golf almost cold turkey ( I have 7 rounds since the beginning of the year) I decided I will do a full swing revamp that has worked out tremendously. But just not enough practice or play time to solidify it._**

> What are you basic stats such as Fwy%, GiR% and putts per round?

> This is just off the phone app, sorry its not the best as I cant set parameters, meaning its all rounds logged. So to give an idea of 2019 vs 2018 or pre 2018 wont be a fair assessment. But Ill try

> Total

> Fairways - 44%

> GIR - 39%

> Average putts 1.9 putts

>

> 2019 - Give me a second

> Fairways

> GIR

> Putt

> 2018 -Give me a second

> Fairways

> GIR

> Putt

>

>

> Hope this helps!

>

 

Did we give you enough seconds ? LOL

 

OK, first observations. 40% GIR is 7 per round. Very high for a 15. 2 putts per is 7 pars.

 

A pretty good short game for a mid cap, IMO, would get up and down maybe 1/3 of the time from average lies/distances around the green to the hole. That's another 4 pars.

 

So 11 pars and 7 bogies would make you about a 6 or a 7.

 

So where do you lose all of the rest of your strokes ?

 

[Exactice808]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > Yes, I think all other things being equal proximity to the hole makes a significant difference. There will always be anomalies (like a guy with chipping yips preferring a full wedge shot over a chip), and you might just be one of them, but generally being closer to the green is better.

> > Again Zero disagreement with you point of proximity. I will say this with my skill set I am SUPER confident about my short game around the green lets say again 30 yards as that is the circumference of an average green. Be it up hill down hil, sand what ever....

> >

> > But pertaining to those mid to high handicappers what do you think their scrambling numbers are. They are NOT only Mid to High handicappers because of miss shots to the green. There is just no way you can be a mid to high capper, with a weak iron game yet drive the ball dead straight, chip and putt well?

> >

> > So I think there is a lot more to the mid to highcapper game then just the selection of an MB vs CB debate.... thats why I am participating so much in this crazy thread! LOL!

> >

>

> Firstly, you mean diameter, not circumference. LOL

>

> As you yourself suggest, I I agree, those mid and high handicappers are not where they are because they have a weak iron game and are strong(er) everywhere else. That is typically not the case.

>

> Then you go and tell us you're a mid 'capper (around 15 IIRC) and you are "super confident" in your short game. While I agree that's far more likely than being a great ball striker and having a terrible short game, that still makes you an "exception", yes ?

>

> But forgetting "confidence" for a moment how good IS your short game ? For example, let's take a very straightforward chip. Front pin. About 15 feet from the fringe to the pin and you're about 10 feet short of the green and the ground is even slightly uphill.

>

> How many times out of 10 do you get that shot up and down ?

>

>

> Now, from an earlier post, you said "_**So my whole discussion from my first post was if you are a serious player which I am, but I also like to have fun**_".

>

> Can you explain what the difference (and the similarity for that matter) is between a "serious player" and one who is "playing for fun" ?

>

> TIA

 

Probably..... you know what I meant

Yes sir, I am currently based on my circumstance that If I need to explain again 75 average rounds per year 6.5 rounds per month down to 1 round per month. no practice yes my game sucks right now at this moment. But when I put the effort and practiced yes my score was below the mid cap range and I was a single.

 

Yes I have practiced a lot to get my shorty game better understanding bounce, trajectory, different shots bumps and runs spinners lower checkers, can I do it on demand every time nope, but the intent usually applies and the skulls or chunks are far less then before. YES I may be an exception I have stated this many times in this thread.

 

Up in down without taking into account my putting if I took my average putt stats.. right....

 

6 out of 10 I would assume with that straight forward situation, front pin 15ft from fringe to pin and 10 feet short. Yes sir I am pretty confident about 60% up and down from there specifically.

 

As for serious player, YES I want to shoot the best score that I can.. YES I have gone some damn extra miles to log, collect data, as I posted my stupid spec sheet I made myself. with package scales. to figure out total weight, swing weight, balance of shafts net weight difference per club... yes I take it seriously. BUT I also try to have the MOST fun I can on the course. I talk trash with my buddies, we drink we play mutiple games through the round. it is NOT a silent round of golf where everyone keeps to them selves. Its FUN as well as serious?

 

 

[nsxguy]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > Yes, I think all other things being equal proximity to the hole makes a significant difference. There will always be anomalies (like a guy with chipping yips preferring a full wedge shot over a chip), and you might just be one of them, but generally being closer to the green is better.

> > > Again Zero disagreement with you point of proximity. I will say this with my skill set I am SUPER confident about my short game around the green lets say again 30 yards as that is the circumference of an average green. Be it up hill down hil, sand what ever....

> > >

> > > But pertaining to those mid to high handicappers what do you think their scrambling numbers are. They are NOT only Mid to High handicappers because of miss shots to the green. There is just no way you can be a mid to high capper, with a weak iron game yet drive the ball dead straight, chip and putt well?

> > >

> > > So I think there is a lot more to the mid to highcapper game then just the selection of an MB vs CB debate.... thats why I am participating so much in this crazy thread! LOL!

> > >

> >

> > Firstly, you mean diameter, not circumference. LOL

> >

> > As you yourself suggest, I I agree, those mid and high handicappers are not where they are because they have a weak iron game and are strong(er) everywhere else. That is typically not the case.

> >

> > Then you go and tell us you're a mid 'capper (around 15 IIRC) and you are "super confident" in your short game. While I agree that's far more likely than being a great ball striker and having a terrible short game, that still makes you an "exception", yes ?

> >

> > But forgetting "confidence" for a moment how good IS your short game ? For example, let's take a very straightforward chip. Front pin. About 15 feet from the fringe to the pin and you're about 10 feet short of the green and the ground is even slightly uphill.

> >

> > How many times out of 10 do you get that shot up and down ?

> >

> >

> > Now, from an earlier post, you said "_**So my whole discussion from my first post was if you are a serious player which I am, but I also like to have fun**_".

> >

> > Can you explain what the difference (and the similarity for that matter) is between a "serious player" and one who is "playing for fun" ?

> >

> > TIA

>

> Probably..... you know what I meant

> Yes sir, I am currently based on my circumstance that If I need to explain again 75 average rounds per year 6.5 rounds per month down to 1 round per month. no practice yes my game sucks right now at this moment. But when I put the effort and practiced yes my score was below the mid cap range and I was a single.

>

> Yes I have practiced a lot to get my shorty game better understanding bounce, trajectory, different shots bumps and runs spinners lower checkers, can I do it on demand every time nope, but the intent usually applies and the skulls or chunks are far less then before. YES I may be an exception I have stated this many times in this thread.

>

> Up in down without taking into account my putting if I took my average putt stats.. right....

>

> 6 out of 10 I would assume with that straight forward situation, front pin 15 from fring to pin and 10 feet short. Yes sir I am pretty confident about 60% up and down from there specifically.

>

> As for serious player, YES I want to shoot the best score that I can.. YES I have gone some **** extra miles to log, collect data, as I posted my stupid spec sheet I made myself. with package scales. to figure out total weight, swing weight, balance of shafts net weight difference per club... yes I take it seriously. BUT I also try to have the MOST fun I can on the course. I talk trash with my buddies, we drink we play mutiple games through the round. it is NOT a silent round of golf where everyone keeps to them selves. Its FUN as well as serious?

>

>

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I missed the part where you said you were a 7 at one time so I suppose that would be a reason for you, as a mid capper right now, to have a better than average (for a mid) short game.

 

You lost me on the serious vs. fun part though. While I can certainly understand blending in a little trash talking, multiple games and kidding around with the buddies, once you mention "drinking" (which I assume is alcohol otherwise why mention it at all ?), the "serious" part of the equation is gone. Just one person's opinion.

[Exactice808]

> @nsxguy said:

> Did we give you enough seconds ? LOL

>

> OK, first observations. 40% GIR is 7 per round. Very high for a 15. 2 putts per is 7 pars.

>

> A pretty good short game for a mid cap, IMO, would get up and down maybe 1/3 of the time from average lies/distances around the green to the hole. That's another 4 pars.

>

> So 11 pars and 7 bogies would make you about a 6 or a 7.

>

> So where do you lose all of the rest of your strokes ?

>

GREAT Questions.... LOL! Did you catch the part where I stated that I have a lateral dispersion issue more than I have distance issue? As I stated I am sorta handsy so when timing is off... its REAL off.... I average currently 3 Penalties per rounds. last 2 rounds? 4 doubles and 2 penalties. Recent rounds 2 Triples and a quad 4 penalties. If you notice as well my weakest stat? as of 2019, 39% fairways, I spray really bad with my driver. When its bad... its double triple quad bad =(.

 

 

[Exactice808]

> @nsxguy said:

> Thanks for the reply.

>

> I missed the part where you said you were a 7 at one time so I suppose that would be a reason for you, as a mid capper right now, to have a better than average (for a mid) short game.

>

> You lost me on the serious vs. fun part though. While I can certainly understand blending in a little trash talking, multiple games and kidding around with the buddies, once you mention "drinking" (which I assume is alcohol otherwise why mention it at all ?), the "serious" part of the equation is gone. Just one person's opinion.

 

Of course! I am all about debate, and sharing info! I too want to help another player from the pain an agony of the dreaded blade threads.... So the more transparent I can be to help I will!

 

Yes Got down to a 7 by GHIN numbers best round I ever shot was a 74 on a 72 course... So I have the capabilities. JUST lack the consistency. More so I am not naturally talented so the only way to maintain is to practice a LOT.

 

As for serious vs fun..... Now you know about my PTSD and how I use golf as therapy right? As you can see how I post and how I collect data I am a real head case No? I am paralysis by analysis. If its in my head Im screwed. BUT if I have a clear mind or relaxed mind the game usually plays out better.... Bantering with friends is a HUGE distraction but also a super awesome way to develop a thick skin. Those knee knocker putts with idiot friends in the back harassing you gets easier when you dont play with them. Drinking not plastered barely walking drinking just feeling good relaxes the body for me, I play better (sometimes) when I have a couple of beers on the course.

 

I dont intend to compete nor have the realistic goal of being a scratch golfer. I WOULD LOVE to be..... but I know I lack the commitment, the funds and the skill set. BUT if I get lucky with 1 round of golf one day in my life to shoot even par..... hallelujah..... But my expectations are some what reasonable?

 

[Aucaveman]

Ive read this whole thread and I'm going to give you my opinion based off my game. This isn't in reference to anyone's post. I have agreed and disagreed with some of everyone's. I range between a 4 and 7 cap depending on the time of year and I never practice. I either play or I don't. I play at least 5 rounds a week. I'm currently alternating between Cobra forged tec black one lengths and 99 Hogan blades. I usually have 2 - 4 bad shots per round. They could be fats or thins. While I strike the ball ok, I hit it all over the face. Some toed , some heeled. In my game, it doesn't matter what clubs I use, I shoot about the same thing. Ive shot 73 with both sets and I've shot 80 with both sets. If I'm chipping and putting well, I score well. It's funny because I tend to hit the Hogan's straighter (prob the offset and heavier shafts), but my distances are more consistent with the Cobras (prob the cbs saving me on miss hits). The other day, I played with the Cobras and hit 4 gir and shot 75. I got up and down 9 times. I would say up to a 13 HC , it doesn't matter what you play, blades or cbs, if you can chip and putt you'll score. Anything over, I'd say play what you want as long as you're enjoying the game.

[pinestreetgolf]

> *Edit*

> dpb just for fun! If you dont mind...... Lets use the mid to highhandicapper as the example of a miss hit near the green.

>

> In comparison to their short game and relations to their choice of MBs vs CB's Do you REALLY think that the forgiveness benefit is inherently better in relation to the score?

>

> I have seen my share as well as being a high/mid handicapper that had a terrible weak short game period. 50 yards and in period, chunks, skulls, swipes, chilli dips etc....

>

> When approaching a green with your "iron of choice" we can agree their GIR are no better than 50%. 50% of the time they are still using their short game to scramble that CB netting them better proximity did it really make a difference?

 

Yes. It makes an enormous difference. From a bunker, for example, it is worth nearly a third of a stroke to be at 10 feet instead of 20. You can look it up. They have tables showing the massive advantage of being closer to the hole. A putt from 3 feet is 95.8%. At 6 feet its about 48%. You drastically underestimate - throughout this thread - the importance of quality misses. A miss is not a miss. And that is probably the worst thought you could possibly have in golf to score well.

 

By the way, 50% GIR is about scratch level. They are scrambling a whole, whole lot more than 50% of the time.

 

[pinestreetgolf]

> I dont intend to compete nor have the realistic goal of being a scratch golfer. I WOULD LOVE to be..... but I know I lack to commitment, the funds and the skill set. BUT if I get lucky with 1 round of golf one day in my life to shoot even par..... hallelujah..... But my expectations are some what reasonable?

 

Could it be that rather than lack the funds or skills, what is actually hurting you the most is that you lack the information? You seem like a passionate guy, but you've said some things in this thread ("a miss is a miss!", "its good to tighten your distance dispersion by getting shorter") that no good golfer would ever dream of saying.

 

 

[Exactice808]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > *Edit*

> > dpb just for fun! If you dont mind...... Lets use the mid to highhandicapper as the example of a miss hit near the green.

> >

> > In comparison to their short game and relations to their choice of MBs vs CB's Do you REALLY think that the forgiveness benefit is inherently better in relation to the score?

> >

> > I have seen my share as well as being a high/mid handicapper that had a terrible weak short game period. 50 yards and in period, chunks, skulls, swipes, chilli dips etc....

> >

> > When approaching a green with your "iron of choice" we can agree their GIR are no better than 50%. 50% of the time they are still using their short game to scramble that CB netting them better proximity did it really make a difference?

>

> Yes. It makes an enormous difference. From a bunker, for example, it is worth nearly a third of a stroke to be at 10 feet instead of 20. You can look it up. They have tables showing the massive advantage of being closer to the hole. A putt from 3 feet is 95.8%. At 6 feet its about 48%. You drastically underestimate - throughout this thread - the importance of quality misses. A miss is not a miss. And that is probably the worst thought you could possibly have in golf to score well.

>

> By the way, 50% GIR is about scratch level. They are scrambling a whole, whole lot more than 50% of the time.

>

 

Have you seen high to mid cappers in the bunker? You are telling me, that more times that not because they are closer but in the bunker they will shoot better.

 

WE are not talking putting proximity I have never stated that. I made a whole other thread about speith and being 80% from 10ft..... shoot Im not 80% from 3ft..... YES proximity to putting is extremely important. BUT the average tour proximity to hole from 100-150yards is 17ft. What do you think is the proximity of a mid to high handicapper from 100-150 yards ? 30ft.....

 

YES I facetiously used 50% GIR as likely there is NO way a mid handicapper REGARDLESS of Blades or CB is getting better than that GIR. PERIOD.... So if they are not getting 50% GIR where are they losing strokes.... Penalities, bad drives, chunks, skulls, 3 putts and more..... the single facet of CB over an MB, we can ADMIT that they would likely not have 50% GIR how can you quantify that CB's are automatically better for a mid to high handicap?

 

We can blanket that YES, CB's are More forgiving than MB's There is ZERO debate on that. But we cannot automatically say that a CB is better for mid to high handicapper without evaluating their game

[pinestreetgolf]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > *Edit*

> > > dpb just for fun! If you dont mind...... Lets use the mid to highhandicapper as the example of a miss hit near the green.

> > >

> > > In comparison to their short game and relations to their choice of MBs vs CB's Do you REALLY think that the forgiveness benefit is inherently better in relation to the score?

> > >

> > > I have seen my share as well as being a high/mid handicapper that had a terrible weak short game period. 50 yards and in period, chunks, skulls, swipes, chilli dips etc....

> > >

> > > When approaching a green with your "iron of choice" we can agree their GIR are no better than 50%. 50% of the time they are still using their short game to scramble that CB netting them better proximity did it really make a difference?

> >

> > Yes. It makes an enormous difference. From a bunker, for example, it is worth nearly a third of a stroke to be at 10 feet instead of 20. You can look it up. They have tables showing the massive advantage of being closer to the hole. A putt from 3 feet is 95.8%. At 6 feet its about 48%. You drastically underestimate - throughout this thread - the importance of quality misses. A miss is not a miss. And that is probably the worst thought you could possibly have in golf to score well.

> >

> > By the way, 50% GIR is about scratch level. They are scrambling a whole, whole lot more than 50% of the time.

> >

>

> Have you seen high to mid cappers in the bunker? You are telling me, that more times that not because they are closer but in the bunker they will shoot better.

>

> WE are not talking putting proximity I have never stated that. I made a whole other thread about speith and being 80% from 10ft..... shoot Im not 80% from 3ft..... YES proximity to putting is extremely important. BUT the average tour proximity to hole from 100-150yards is 17ft. What do you think is the proximity of a mid to high handicapper from 100-150 yards ? 30ft.....

>

> YES I facetiously used 50% GIR as likely there is NO way a mid handicapper REGARDLESS of Blades or CB is getting better than that GIR. PERIOD.... So if they are not getting 50% GIR where are they losing strokes.... Penalities, bad drives, chunks, skulls, 3 putts and more..... the single facet of CB over an MB, we can ADMIT that they would likely not have 50% GIR how can you quantify that CB's are automatically better for a mid to high handicap?

>

Where do you think proximity on putting comes from? It comes from how close you hit the short game shot, which is 100% dependent on where you miss the iron shot. To say we're "not talking about proximity from putting" illustrates a misunderstanding how this works. Everything is related to proximity in putting, because its the end of the chain.

 

On one single shot, you're right. But that isn't golf. Golf is a ton of shots spread out over a lifetime. And if you are 10% better because you are a bit closer over your lifetime you will do WAY better. It might be .8 a round, but it matters.

 

> We can blanket that YES, CB's are More forgiving than MB's There is ZERO debate on that. But we cannot automatically say that a CB is better for mid to high handicapper without evaluating their game

 

No kidding. I see we've reached the part of the thread now where we get the "All I'm saying is that blades are good for some mid-cappers...." backtracking. Your statement here is true. Nobody said all mid caps should play CBs. In fact, myself and Mello took great pains to say the opposite of that. Earlier you said the two were similar and that blades might be better because they reduce a miss by making it shorter (which makes no sense at all). Now you are saying "we cannot automatically" say it. Finally, you have arrived at the correct answer.

 

In general, CBs are better, but each player should decide for himself. However, with mid and high caps, CBs have an inherent advantage and should be tried first and be the default for those players.

 

Done and done.

 

[Exactice808]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > WE are not talking putting proximity I have never stated that. I made a whole other thread about speith and being 80% from 10ft..... shoot Im not 80% from 3ft..... YES proximity to putting is extremely important. BUT the average tour proximity to hole from 100-150yards is 17ft. What do you think is the proximity of a mid to high handicapper from 100-150 yards ? 30ft.....

> Where do you think proximity on putting comes from? It comes from how close you hit the short game shot, which is 100% dependent on where you miss the iron shot. To say we're "not talking about proximity from putting" illustrates a misunderstanding how this works. Everything is related to proximity in putting, because its the end of the chain.

 

> On one single shot, you're right. But that isn't golf. Golf is a ton of shots spread out over a lifetime. And if you are 10% better because you are a bit closer over your lifetime you will do WAY better. It might be .8 a round, but it matters.

>

> > We can blanket that YES, CB's are More forgiving than MB's There is ZERO debate on that. But we cannot automatically say that a CB is better for mid to high handicapper without evaluating their game

>

> No kidding. I see we've reached the part of the thread now where we get the "All I'm saying is that blades are good for some mid-cappers...." backtracking. Your statement here is true. Nobody said all mid caps should play CBs. In fact, myself and Mello took great pains to say the opposite of that. Earlier you said the two were similar and that blades might be better because they reduce a miss by making it shorter (which makes no sense at all). Now you are saying "we cannot automatically" say it. Finally, you have arrived at the correct answer.

>

> In general, CBs are better, but each player should decide for himself. However, with mid and high caps,**_ CBs have an inherent advantage and should be tried first and be the default for those players._**

>

> Done and done.

 

First off... Mid to high handicapers..... are mid to high handicappers due to score right?

 

SO if we took total score into account and your data averages.... You know that iron shot with the CB.... is it REALLY their Second shot to the green? or could it already be their 3rd shot due to an already lost ball, OB or hazard. Hell it could be their second shot they they chunked that went 10ft........ and they are still 100+ yards out with their CB where their first CB shot did squat...

 

Now They miss the green as we can agree that they are not anywhere near 50% GIR. so they could be laying 4 next to the green.... They chip up... and a mid to high handicapper is not making up and down from laying 4, with any type of consistency. 2 or 3 puts later its a double or triple.

 

YES proximity of putts Is exactly as you stated... Totally see that from my being down to a 7 and currently at a 14/15. I can stone flags and get a decent amount of GIR on average... and make 2 put pars . But when I blow up... it has nothing to do with putting proximity. I hit my drive OB, thats a stroke, re tee, in the middle, I hit my second shot, on the green Im lying 3, 2 putt for bogey THATS likely the better scenario.

 

But if my GIR regulation are no where near 50% im chipping from off the green right laying 4 hitting 5, hoping to scramble. Those chips were NO benefit from the CBs.

 

Back tracking? What am I back tracking, I have never said MB's or CB's have been GOOD for anyone PERIOD. I have stated that I have justified WHY I play it only. I never once advocated EVER that anyone should play X club.... Look it up.

 

Mello Stated It directly to me... (Mello stand by here as I do NOT want to instigate any further with you its just for Pine's edification)

That I should NOT be playing MB, PW- 6iron as I was hypocritical playing 4 & 5 iron MCs.... YES it was assumed that I SHOULD NOT be playing MB's PERIOD. that was the very first post to me.. With ZERO edifcation questions, It was assume right of the bat a mid capper should not be playin PW-6iron blades.

I have NEVER said the Blades are better. I have stated Multiple times. that the CB's have NOT netted me any better. so if I shoot about the same with the PW -6iron MB or CB's I would choose what I like better just because I can.

 

Stop making up your own comment stop putting words in my mouth thats completely dishonest

 

YES I have stated it. CB in general ARE more forgiving. CB's in general are designed with weight moved to the perimeter to allow the retention of ball speeds on less than optimal strikes. BUT this does NOT mean all mid to high handicappers have issues specific to the benefit of just a CB club. IT might be a WHOLE slew of issues. that not even the change of just a CB will help.

 

And the bolded is your Hypocrisy. in one sentence you say, **_ "Nobody said all mid caps should play CBs. In fact, myself and Mello took great pains to say the opposite of that."_**

 

And then in the bolded text you say, CB's have inherent advantages and should be tried first, by the default of those players....

 

You are forcing CB's as default and should be tried "FIRST" .... hypocrisy at its best ........

[Exactice808]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > I dont intend to compete nor have the realistic goal of being a scratch golfer. I WOULD LOVE to be..... but I know I lack to commitment, the funds and the skill set. BUT if I get lucky with 1 round of golf one day in my life to shoot even par..... hallelujah..... But my expectations are some what reasonable?

>

> Could it be that rather than lack the funds or skills, what is actually hurting you the most is that you lack the information? You seem like a passionate guy, but you've said some things in this thread ("a miss is a miss!", "its good to tighten your distance dispersion by getting shorter") that no good golfer would ever dream of saying.

>

>

 

LOL! Lack of information... Yes more information is going to get me down to a scratch golfer...... really?

Yes I do agree I am pretty passionate. But I respectfully disagree, I need practice to develop consistency to score better at this point.

 

"Its good to tighten your distance dispersion by getting shorter" - if you can quote to find the post trail, as I Dont recall EVER saying that. IF I did then I stand corrected as that is COMPLETELY incorrect. And I do not support that. If I said that I am WRONG. So if you may highlight or quote it and find where I said that so I can openly correct as I do NOT agree with it.

[ohioglfr]

I have a Maltby DBM 6 demo iron in my trunk which I hit occasionally at the range. My bag has Ping G irons. Being 65, with a slower swing speed and a quarter-sized striking accuracy over the face, I feel like I'm using the right clubs. I love the feel of the Maltby head, however, and they are surprisingly forgiving on mishits. If I could only (A): find a magic iron shaft that would squeeze a little more distance and loft from the Maltby, and (B): get my striking accuracy down consistently, to the size of a nickel, dime being ideal.

[pinestreetgolf]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > I dont intend to compete nor have the realistic goal of being a scratch golfer. I WOULD LOVE to be..... but I know I lack to commitment, the funds and the skill set. BUT if I get lucky with 1 round of golf one day in my life to shoot even par..... hallelujah..... But my expectations are some what reasonable?

> >

> > Could it be that rather than lack the funds or skills, what is actually hurting you the most is that you lack the information? You seem like a passionate guy, but you've said some things in this thread ("a miss is a miss!", "its good to tighten your distance dispersion by getting shorter") that no good golfer would ever dream of saying.

> >

> >

>

> LOL! Lack of information... Yes more information is going to get me down to a scratch golfer...... really?

> Yes I do agree I am pretty passionate. But I respectfully disagree, I need practice to develop consistency to score better at this point.

 

Yes, information on what to practice. You are using "practice" as if it is obvious what people should practice. It isn't. If you went into a practice bunker ten hours a day for the next four years you'd become an incredible bunker player and your handicap likely wouldn't move. I can only go on what you write in this thread. You've written that misses are misses and it doesn't matter. That isn't true. So if you are on the range and you are trying to get to the point where you don't miss its hopeless. Everyone misses. The secret to getting better at golf is actually practicing missing well, on course and on range. The idea that you can get consistent enough that you don't have misses is a fantasy. The idea that you can learn what area is hurting you most (which is not immediately obvious for most golfers) and then practice in the most efficient way possible is based on one thing: information. How do you learn? How do you measure your rounds? Score only? If so, that is a hideously inefficient way to get better, as "Score" hides information from you.

 

If you're good, good. You can throw out all the "seriously"s and "LOL"s you want. But if you are trying to get better, I'd start with taking a cold hard look at your "a miss is a miss" posts in this thread. That isn't how great players think. That isn't how scratch golfers think. Scratch golfers are not prodigious ball strikers with massive towering drives and perfect iron play. Scratch golfers basically all have one thing and only one thing in common: they are really good at not making double. Which means they have really good misses.

 

 

[Exactice808]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > > I dont intend to compete nor have the realistic goal of being a scratch golfer. I WOULD LOVE to be..... but I know I lack to commitment, the funds and the skill set. BUT if I get lucky with 1 round of golf one day in my life to shoot even par..... hallelujah..... But my expectations are some what reasonable?

> > >

> > > Could it be that rather than lack the funds or skills, what is actually hurting you the most is that you lack the information? You seem like a passionate guy, but you've said some things in this thread ("a miss is a miss!", "its good to tighten your distance dispersion by getting shorter") that no good golfer would ever dream of saying.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > LOL! Lack of information... Yes more information is going to get me down to a scratch golfer...... really?

> > Yes I do agree I am pretty passionate. But I respectfully disagree, I need practice to develop consistency to score better at this point.

>

> Yes, information on what to practice. You are using "practice" as if it is obvious what people should practice. It isn't. If you went into a practice bunker ten hours a day for the next four years you'd become an incredible bunker player and your handicap likely wouldn't move. I can only go on what you write in this thread. You've written that misses are misses and it doesn't matter. That isn't true. So if you are on the range and you are trying to get to the point where you don't miss its hopeless. Everyone misses. The secret to getting better at golf is actually practicing missing well, on course and on range. The idea that you can get consistent enough that you don't have misses is a fantasy. The idea that you can learn what area is hurting you most (which is not immediately obvious for most golfers) and then practice in the most efficient way possible is based on one thing: information. How do you learn? How do you measure your rounds? Score only? If so, that is a hideously inefficient way to get better, as "Score" hides information from you.

>

> If you're good, good. You can throw out all the "seriously"s and "LOL"s you want. But if you are trying to get better, I'd start with taking a cold hard look at your "a miss is a miss" posts in this thread. That isn't how great players think. That isn't how scratch golfers think. Scratch golfers are not prodigious ball strikers with massive towering drives and perfect iron play. Scratch golfers basically all have one thing and only one thing in common: they are really good at not making double. Which means they have really good misses.

>

>

 

So first off lets get this straight you are falsely quoting and accusing me of saying things that I HAVE NEVER stated. You cannot prove it back it up and you change it when you are called out on it.... scumbag at best..... YES a miss is a miss, I never dictated what a miss is as I never will EVER know what a miss is. Nor do you so there is no way to judge a miss but just know they occur and mitigate them as best you can.

 

Next I acknowledge you well back about 3 pages ago that I AGREE with you specifically, that an INTENT is important and should be taken into consideration. Knowledge applied to practice is important. I have my set knowledge, it got me to a 7 when I practices with intent. I stopped practicing so my score went up..... Is it because I lacked knowledge that is your implication..... NO its lack of practice. When I reach 7 and I cannot pass that then YES its back to the drawing board.

 

AGAIN False statements and straight up lying. WHEN have I ever stated that I or anyone was trying to eliminate all misses. I stated that a miss is at ALL levels including TW..... Why do you keep making FALSE statements of me. WHAT is your problem?

 

WE are NOT talking about good players, scratch golfers, We are talking about High and mid Handicaps playing blades. YOUR points are correct with regards to shooting low and your scratch golfer etc....but that is NOT the conversation

 

The discussion HERE is that at a mid to high handicap range is CB's the "The First Thing mid to high handicaps should play and by default" . You said that I quoted you. You are FORCING your Opinion in Mid to high handicappers that it is the FIRST thing and DEFAULT thing they do..... Hypocrite.......

 

[pinestreetgolf]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > > > I dont intend to compete nor have the realistic goal of being a scratch golfer. I WOULD LOVE to be..... but I know I lack to commitment, the funds and the skill set. BUT if I get lucky with 1 round of golf one day in my life to shoot even par..... hallelujah..... But my expectations are some what reasonable?

> > > >

> > > > Could it be that rather than lack the funds or skills, what is actually hurting you the most is that you lack the information? You seem like a passionate guy, but you've said some things in this thread ("a miss is a miss!", "its good to tighten your distance dispersion by getting shorter") that no good golfer would ever dream of saying.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > LOL! Lack of information... Yes more information is going to get me down to a scratch golfer...... really?

> > > Yes I do agree I am pretty passionate. But I respectfully disagree, I need practice to develop consistency to score better at this point.

> >

> > Yes, information on what to practice. You are using "practice" as if it is obvious what people should practice. It isn't. If you went into a practice bunker ten hours a day for the next four years you'd become an incredible bunker player and your handicap likely wouldn't move. I can only go on what you write in this thread. You've written that misses are misses and it doesn't matter. That isn't true. So if you are on the range and you are trying to get to the point where you don't miss its hopeless. Everyone misses. The secret to getting better at golf is actually practicing missing well, on course and on range. The idea that you can get consistent enough that you don't have misses is a fantasy. The idea that you can learn what area is hurting you most (which is not immediately obvious for most golfers) and then practice in the most efficient way possible is based on one thing: information. How do you learn? How do you measure your rounds? Score only? If so, that is a hideously inefficient way to get better, as "Score" hides information from you.

> >

> > If you're good, good. You can throw out all the "seriously"s and "LOL"s you want. But if you are trying to get better, I'd start with taking a cold hard look at your "a miss is a miss" posts in this thread. That isn't how great players think. That isn't how scratch golfers think. Scratch golfers are not prodigious ball strikers with massive towering drives and perfect iron play. Scratch golfers basically all have one thing and only one thing in common: they are really good at not making double. Which means they have really good misses.

> >

> >

>

> So first off lets get this straight you are falsely quoting and accusing me of saying things that I HAVE NEVER stated. You cannot prove it back it up and you change it when you are called out on it.... scumbag at best..... YES a miss is a miss, I never dictated what a miss is as I never will EVER know what a miss is. Nor do you so there is no way to judge a miss but just know they occur and mitigate them as best you can.

>

> Next I acknowledge you well back about 3 pages ago that I AGREE with you specifically, that an INTENT is important and should be taken into consideration. Knowledge applied to practice is important. I have my set knowledge, it got me to a 7 when I practices with intent. I stopped practicing so my score went up..... Is it because I lacked knowledge that is your implication..... NO its lack of practice. When I reach 7 and I cannot pass that then YES its back to the drawing board.

>

> AGAIN False statements and straight up lying. WHEN have I ever stated that I or anyone was trying to eliminate all misses. I stated that a miss is at ALL levels including TW..... Why do you keep making FALSE statements of me. WHAT is your problem?

>

> WE are NOT talking about good players, scratch golfers, We are talking about High and mid Handicaps playing blades. YOUR points are correct with regards to shooting low and your scratch golfer etc....but that is NOT the conversation

>

> The discussion HERE is that at a mid to high handicap range is CB's the "The First Thing mid to high handicaps should play and by default" . You said that I quoted you. You are FORCING your Opinion in Mid to high handicappers that it is the FIRST thing and DEFAULT thing they do..... Hypocrite.......

>

 

I wish you all the best and I am going to exit this conversation. Hit 'em straight.

[Lodestone]

> @Aucaveman said:

> Ive read this whole thread and I'm going to give you my opinion based off my game. This isn't in reference to anyone's post. I have agreed and disagreed with some of everyone's. I range between a 4 and 7 cap depending on the time of year and I never practice. I either play or I don't. I play at least 5 rounds a week. I'm currently alternating between Cobra forged tec black one lengths and 99 Hogan blades. I usually have 2 - 4 bad shots per round. They could be fats or thins. While I strike the ball ok, I hit it all over the face. Some toed , some heeled. In my game, it doesn't matter what clubs I use, I shoot about the same thing. Ive shot 73 with both sets and I've shot 80 with both sets. If I'm chipping and putting well, I score well. It's funny because I tend to hit the Hogan's straighter (prob the offset and heavier shafts), but my distances are more consistent with the Cobras (prob the cbs saving me on miss hits). The other day, I played with the Cobras and hit 4 gir and shot 75. I got up and down 9 times. I would say up to a 13 HC , it doesn't matter what you play, blades or cbs, if you can chip and putt you'll score. Anything over, I'd say play what you want as long as you're enjoying the game.

 

This sounds so much like me I could have written it, although I probably hit more like 6-8 bad shots, and accordingly, my handicap index range is more like 7-10...But other than that I am right there with you in my game, and in your conclusions drawn, I agree completely.

here's to getting rid of some of those bad shots! cheers.

 

[gbartko]

.

[nsxguy]

> @bladecrusader said:

> I switched from original big Bertha irons to Golden Rams and my GIR went from 23% to 46%. Come at me bro...

 

I trust you realize having more than one account on here is against the Rules, right ?

[gbartko]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @bladecrusader said:

> > I switched from original big Bertha irons to Golden Rams and my GIR went from 23% to 46%. Come at me bro...

>

> I trust you realize having more than one account on here is against the Rules, right ?

 

Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is GolfWRX. There are rules.

[nsxguy]

> @bladecrusader said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @bladecrusader said:

> > > I switched from original big Bertha irons to Golden Rams and my GIR went from 23% to 46%. Come at me bro...

> >

> > I trust you realize having more than one account on here is against the Rules, right ?

>

> Smokey, this is not 'Nam. **This is GolfWRX. There are rules**.

 

Exactly my point.

 

 

[jpdx]

> @nsxguy said:

>

> Did we give you enough seconds ? LOL

>

> OK, first observations. 40% GIR is 7 per round. Very high for a 15. 2 putts per is 7 pars.

>

> A pretty good short game for a mid cap, IMO, would get up and down maybe 1/3 of the time from average lies/distances around the green to the hole. That's another 4 pars.

>

> So 11 pars and 7 bogies would make you about a 6 or a 7.

>

> So where do you lose all of the rest of your strokes ?

>

 

a little off topic, but think you (or anyone else) would be able to guess my hdcp based on my stats?

last 5 rounds:

Fairways 25%

GIR 25.9%

Putt per hole: 1.9

Putt per GIR: 2.3

up and down 34%

Overall 509 recorded rounds

Fairways 40%

GIR 16.1%

Putt per hole: 1.6

Putt per GIR: 2.1

up and down 21%

 

i'll share some additional info more on topic to the thread after a guess :)

[revanant]

So, the 716 CBs just came in!

 

First thoughts are that I really like the topline and overall head shape. Size is about the same as my MP-4s, and smaller than the JPX 900 Tour and T-Zoid Pro. Topline is about as thin as my Hogan Redlines--not as thin as my MP-4s, but really nice. Sole is similar to my MP-4s in width, but the pre-worn edge is a little funky.

 

I got to put them on the sim for about 30 minutes of ball hitting. First impression is that they don't get as much height as I remember. Between the Steelfiber shafts and the tungsten, I'm surprised that ball flight is pretty comparable to my blades and spin is a little lower. No major change in distances. Feel is good, though not as good as my MP-4s. They aren't longer than my blades--shots are where I'd expect them to fall. Roll is a little longer sometimes, but at the expense of a few hundred rpms of spin, so not necessarily a good trade. I may need to get loft and lie checked at some point soon.

 

I have a month to keep testing and I didn't get to give them a true run-through yet, so these impressions may change as I put more balls downrange. Right now, I expect I'm going to keep them and flip my AP1s to make it a relatively small purchase and because I really like the aethetics for a more forgiving iron, but if I were in a fitting, these would drop behind my MP-4s for now.