My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

[Andus]

OP is new, he may not know there have been 936,000 threads on this very topic.

Yeah I am new, I didn't know there have been so many threads previously. But, obviously lots of people are still interested in the topic and have very strong opinions about it.

 

In regards to all of the warriors saying the math doesn't add up blah blah blah, like I mentioned above, I really haven't ever paid attention over 10 rounds to how many GIR I hit or how many bad chips, or 3 putts. I was trying to give information about my game because I guess people can't believe I play to a 15-16 handicap? Or maybe it's that their opinions are the reason I made this thread; blades are not just for the 0-5 handicap players in my opinion.

 

@Nsxguy, First off, I do think the 2 handicapper drank the marketing kool-aid, big time. You don't, we have different opinions. I think you drank your own kool-aid lol. You're accusing me of lying and not being honest here/myself but guess what? At the end of every round I play, I put my golf score into my GHIN app. I'm currently playing to a 15.4. That's not debatable. As I said above, all of the warriors (including yourself and PSG) come in this thread and try to debunk my golf game by telling me it's not my short game, but rather my iron game when you've never even seen me swing a club. Think about that. I don't care if you have 20 posts on this forum or 10,000, if that's the way you act, I couldn't care less about your opinion.

[Titleist_PT23]

If someone is hitting 6 GIR and 2 putting, then if the rest involve a chip and 2 putts then they are playing to 12. Assuming Par 72 that's an 84, then it only takes a couple of balls in the drink or OB and you're shooting 87. So basically, the OP is getting grief for not accounting for 3 shots. Over 4 hours of golf.

I think we you factor in slope and the averaging of the best scores, 15 is probably more like an average score in the low 90s. Everyone has different variances but my average score is noticeably different than 72 + index. Probably not the most important thing, but it may shade the calculations a bit.

 

I look at games with rentals as Try Before you Buy opportunities (and it's worked, I'm about to go buy an 818 H2 based on the one I borrowed at the same time), and based on the experience I had, I have no interest in trying AP2's for a season to see if I magically hit an additional green a round at the end of it. I'd rather improve my current swing and do that with the VR Pros. As, being blades, they encourage me to practice more ;)

I don't disagree with this approach at all. I know my clubs aren't perfect and there are always situations where a different club may be preferred, but on average my stuff works OK, and I want to spend time improving my swing vs. playing musical chairs with the bag setup based on what did or didn't work last weekend.

 

I also play rentals every now and then both from traveling and to test something out. I don't think I am overly picky about clubs (i.e. give me any iron in the same class and if I had played it for a season+ I probably wouldn't think much differently of it vs. the clubs I play now). But I do think it is difficult to adjust on the fly for 1 or even 2 rounds. Something is always just slightly different enough that my strike is usually just slightly off (or at least not on as much). Mainly, I can tell if I don't like something vs. I rarely have something that's just wonderful.

 

I think all of what you are doing is working well for you. I guess some (and I) just thought using the 2 rounds as "evidence" there is no difference vs. your blades was a bit questionable. I.e. don't want to change = completely understand. Means there's not another green out there for you even if you did change for a year (or even worse, I'm delusional for thinking my clubs help me) = not so sure.

 

Anyways, hope the hybrid works out well!

[playa]

I'm in your corner....lower hdcp but much slower speed.....not a fan of big,bulky, offset irons...had PXG combo set with a big regret getting the P heads....tons of offset and thick soled....wish I had gotten the Tour head....now I'm rotating iblade by Ping and Adams XTD FORGED....neither are pure blades but they present like blades with some added help....

 

The key is having a shaft that fits YOUR swing on some level of consistency....even as inconsistent as we are.

I've always subscribed to the theory that a big reason high caps struggle with blades is because of the stiff shafts they always come in. I would bet that most ams who say they struggle with blades would struggle with their shovels if they put S300 shafts in them. If you have shafts you can properly load, what type of head is on the end won't matter.

[Ripken08]

I'm in your corner....lower hdcp but much slower speed.....not a fan of big,bulky, offset irons...had PXG combo set with a big regret getting the P heads....tons of offset and thick soled....wish I had gotten the Tour head....now I'm rotating iblade by Ping and Adams XTD FORGED....neither are pure blades but they present like blades with some added help....

 

The key is having a shaft that fits YOUR swing on some level of consistency....even as inconsistent as we are.

I've always subscribed to the theory that a big reason high caps struggle with blades is because of the stiff shafts they always come in. I would bet that most ams who say they struggle with blades would struggle with their shovels if they put S300 shafts in them. If you have shafts you can properly load, what type of head is on the end won't matter.

 

That's what I'm trying this year. I've played blades with success off and on over the years and my eye prefers them. I snagged a mint set of MP4s used and had Mizuno replace the stock PX 6.0 with my normal Modus 105 shafts. Can't wait to try them out!

[pinestreetgolf]

Sorry to disturb you up there on your high horse, but I have a slight issue with your maths, which kind of makes most of the rest of your post irrelevant. If someone is hitting 6 GIR and 2 putting, then if the rest involve a chip and 2 putts then they are playing to 12. Assuming Par 72 that's an 84, then it only takes a couple of balls in the drink or OB and you're shooting 87. So basically, the OP is getting grief for not accounting for 3 shots. Over 4 hours of golf.

 

That's not how handicaps work. You are not a 10 cap if you shoot 82. A handicap indicates your potential *not* your average score.

 

His math is correct.

 

You assume that a better handicap would get up and down every time. Re-read my initial post. A pro is up and down 67% of the time. So he must be doing much, much worse than chipping and two putting every hole. We're not questioning his score (although maybe we should be) but the fact that short game is the reason why he shoots those scores.

 

If he hacks up on the green and two putts every single time off six hit greens (missing twelve), he would shoot an 84 with no doubles. A pro hitting six greens would shoot a 78. He's losing about six shots to a pro, not 15+, due to his short game. Your post reads as if good players are 90% to get up and down. The best in the world are just below 70% so we compare to that.

 

Anyway you slice the cake and regardless of what clubs are in his hand, claiming you hit six greens a round but lose 15 strokes-ish a round to short game is ridiculous. That's more than a stroke lost per hole (Note: it is *not* "an extra stroke per hole" its "a stroke lost to a scractch golfer per hole for that same course") which isn't possible. The scratch isn't getting down in 24 from those 12 missed greens. A tour pro is getting down in, on average, about 36 shots (65%). For the OP's numbers to be true (Again, depending on rating) he'd have to be taking four plus shots on multiple holes once in or on the green.

 

The OP would have to make double or worse between 3.5 and 5.5 times *per round consistently* after already in green the complex in regulation for his claims to be true. There is no way.

 

Like I said, almost impossible unless he has one of the worst short games on Earth.

[pinestreetgolf]

by telling me it's not my short game, but rather my iron game when you've never even seen me swing a club. Think about that. I don't care if you have 20 posts on this forum or 10,000, if that's the way you act, I couldn't care less about your opinion.

 

What if I told you 2+2=5? YOU'VE NEVER SEEN ME USE A CALCULATOR!! YOU DON'T KNOW!

 

I'm telling you that it is borderline impossible for someone to be a 15.4 handicap hitting six greens because of his short game unless you have one of the worst short games of all time anyone has ever seen. You must be duffing at least a third of your short game shots. Its probably not even possible unless you hit at least one short game shot into the water or OB. Its just math dude. Sorry, what you're saying is nonsensical. If you had said "I'm a weaker player, 15 cap, love blades" I wouldn't have posted. But to say you have a "good" long game as a 15?! C'mon now. C'mon.

 

I don't think you're lying. I think you've somehow managed to convince yourself of it because its more noble / manly to have a monster long game and be weak around the green. But your math doesn't work.

 

Walk us through a typical round where you add almost 19 strokes around the twelve green complex you miss.

 

Key Point: you are a 15 that hits six greens. Which means six of the holes you are a scratch golfer (<- i don't think you get how this works). Which means you 15.4 cap is coming from only the remaining twelve, which means you have to play those in 20.4 over par due to your short game. No freaking way my friend. And since pros and scratches three putt sometimes too, subtract their three putt rate from your don't just use yours.

 

And this isn't an attack on you, its designed to help you.

 

if you hook a ball twenty yards left leaving a difficult chip that has to run up a green mound, pop over, and stop after 8 feet, that is an iron mistake, no matter how badly you hit it with a wedge. The idea that you're elite ball striking is setting you up around the greens well and you're just blading chips into the water from decent lies consistently is hard to believe.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Sorry to disturb you up there on your high horse, but I have a slight issue with your maths, which kind of makes most of the rest of your post irrelevant. If someone is hitting 6 GIR and 2 putting, then if the rest involve a chip and 2 putts then they are playing to 12. Assuming Par 72 that's an 84, then it only takes a couple of balls in the drink or OB and you're shooting 87. So basically, the OP is getting grief for not accounting for 3 shots. Over 4 hours of golf.

 

That's not how handicaps work. You are not a 10 cap if you shoot 82. A handicap indicates your potential *not* your average score.

 

His math is correct.

 

You assume that a better handicap would get up and down every time. Re-read my initial post. A pro is up and down 67% of the time. So he must be doing much, much worse than chipping and two putting every hole. We're not questioning his score (although maybe we should be) but the fact that short game is the reason why he shoots those scores.

 

If he hacks up on the green and two putts every single time off six hit greens (missing twelve), he would shoot an 84 with no doubles. A pro hitting six greens would shoot a 78. He's losing about six shots to a pro, not 15+, due to his short game. Your post reads as if good players are 90% to get up and down. The best in the world are just below 70% so we compare to that.

 

Anyway you slice the cake and regardless of what clubs are in his hand, claiming you hit six greens a round but lose 15 strokes-ish a round to short game is ridiculous. That's more than a stroke lost per hole (Note: it is *not* "an extra stroke per hole" its "a stroke lost to a scractch golfer per hole for that same course") which isn't possible. The scratch isn't getting down in 24 from those 12 missed greens. A tour pro is getting down in, on average, about 36 shots (65%). For the OP's numbers to be true (Again, depending on rating) he'd have to be taking four plus shots on multiple holes once in or on the green.

 

The OP would have to make double or worse between 3.5 and 5.5 times *per round consistently* after already in green the complex in regulation for his claims to be true. There is no way.

 

Like I said, almost impossible unless he has one of the worst short games on Earth.

 

I think to assume amid-handicapper gets up and down in 3 shots from near or around the green might be erroneous. Could often be more.

[playa]

I'm in your corner....lower hdcp but much slower speed.....not a fan of big,bulky, offset irons...had PXG combo set with a big regret getting the P heads....tons of offset and thick soled....wish I had gotten the Tour head....now I'm rotating iblade by Ping and Adams XTD FORGED....neither are pure blades but they present like blades with some added help....

 

The key is having a shaft that fits YOUR swing on some level of consistency....even as inconsistent as we are.

I've always subscribed to the theory that a big reason high caps struggle with blades is because of the stiff shafts they always come in. I would bet that most ams who say they struggle with blades would struggle with their shovels if they put S300 shafts in them. If you have shafts you can properly load, what type of head is on the end won't matter.

 

That's what I'm trying this year. I've played blades with success off and on over the years and my eye prefers them. I snagged a mint set of MP4s used and had Mizuno replace the stock PX 6.0 with my normal Modus 105 shafts. Can't wait to try them out!

I guarantee you will like them. I have done similar in the past, replacing S300 with R300 in the longer irons, and it made them much easier to play. Modus 105s are much smoother and easier to load than PX 6.0, you will definitely notice a difference in feel and forgiveness.

[pinestreetgolf]

Sorry to disturb you up there on your high horse, but I have a slight issue with your maths, which kind of makes most of the rest of your post irrelevant. If someone is hitting 6 GIR and 2 putting, then if the rest involve a chip and 2 putts then they are playing to 12. Assuming Par 72 that's an 84, then it only takes a couple of balls in the drink or OB and you're shooting 87. So basically, the OP is getting grief for not accounting for 3 shots. Over 4 hours of golf.

 

That's not how handicaps work. You are not a 10 cap if you shoot 82. A handicap indicates your potential *not* your average score.

 

His math is correct.

 

You assume that a better handicap would get up and down every time. Re-read my initial post. A pro is up and down 67% of the time. So he must be doing much, much worse than chipping and two putting every hole. We're not questioning his score (although maybe we should be) but the fact that short game is the reason why he shoots those scores.

 

If he hacks up on the green and two putts every single time off six hit greens (missing twelve), he would shoot an 84 with no doubles. A pro hitting six greens would shoot a 78. He's losing about six shots to a pro, not 15+, due to his short game. Your post reads as if good players are 90% to get up and down. The best in the world are just below 70% so we compare to that.

 

Anyway you slice the cake and regardless of what clubs are in his hand, claiming you hit six greens a round but lose 15 strokes-ish a round to short game is ridiculous. That's more than a stroke lost per hole (Note: it is *not* "an extra stroke per hole" its "a stroke lost to a scractch golfer per hole for that same course") which isn't possible. The scratch isn't getting down in 24 from those 12 missed greens. A tour pro is getting down in, on average, about 36 shots (65%). For the OP's numbers to be true (Again, depending on rating) he'd have to be taking four plus shots on multiple holes once in or on the green.

 

The OP would have to make double or worse between 3.5 and 5.5 times *per round consistently* after already in green the complex in regulation for his claims to be true. There is no way.

 

Like I said, almost impossible unless he has one of the worst short games on Earth.

 

I think to assume amid-handicapper gets up and down in 3 shots from near or around the green might be erroneous. Could often be more.

 

For sure, but with six hit greens a round, he's shooting 87 if he does that every single time, which is significantly better than a 15.4 handicap. He'd have to be doubling or tripling from inside the green complex in regulation 2-5 times per round. A 15 cap doesn't average 87, a 15 cap shoot 87 about 20% of the time.

[bodhi555]

Sorry to disturb you up there on your high horse, but I have a slight issue with your maths, which kind of makes most of the rest of your post irrelevant. If someone is hitting 6 GIR and 2 putting, then if the rest involve a chip and 2 putts then they are playing to 12. Assuming Par 72 that's an 84, then it only takes a couple of balls in the drink or OB and you're shooting 87. So basically, the OP is getting grief for not accounting for 3 shots. Over 4 hours of golf.

 

That's not how handicaps work. You are not a 10 cap if you shoot 82. A handicap indicates your potential *not* your average score.

 

His math is correct.

 

You assume that a better handicap would get up and down every time. Re-read my initial post. A pro is up and down 67% of the time. So he must be doing much, much worse than chipping and two putting every hole. We're not questioning his score (although maybe we should be) but the fact that short game is the reason why he shoots those scores.

 

If he hacks up on the green and two putts every single time off six hit greens (missing twelve), he would shoot an 84 with no doubles. A pro hitting six greens would shoot a 78. He's losing about six shots to a pro, not 15+, due to his short game. Your post reads as if good players are 90% to get up and down. The best in the world are just below 70% so we compare to that.

 

Anyway you slice the cake and regardless of what clubs are in his hand, claiming you hit six greens a round but lose 15 strokes-ish a round to short game is ridiculous. That's more than a stroke lost per hole (Note: it is *not* "an extra stroke per hole" its "a stroke lost to a scractch golfer per hole for that same course") which isn't possible. The scratch isn't getting down in 24 from those 12 missed greens. A tour pro is getting down in, on average, about 36 shots (65%). For the OP's numbers to be true (Again, depending on rating) he'd have to be taking four plus shots on multiple holes once in or on the green.

 

The OP would have to make double or worse between 3.5 and 5.5 times *per round consistently* after already in green the complex in regulation for his claims to be true. There is no way.

 

Like I said, almost impossible unless he has one of the worst short games on Earth.

 

This must be a Europe/US thing, as over here, that is exactly how handicaps work. Do 3 cards, if you average +10 over the 3 cards you're given a handicap of 10, which is then refined during the course of competition. When you get to that point Standard Scratch becomes a factor sure, but on most courses that tends to hover around par anyway. Sure if OP is playing Ryder Cup venues every week then his score will be higher, but I think it's a fair assumption that's not the case.

 

And not sure where you got the fact I thought 90% up and down was in any way a possibility? If anything, I would have thought from my post even getting near 50% would yield massive benefits?

[Andus]

by telling me it's not my short game, but rather my iron game when you've never even seen me swing a club. Think about that. I don't care if you have 20 posts on this forum or 10,000, if that's the way you act, I couldn't care less about your opinion.

 

What if I told you 2+2=5? YOU'VE NEVER SEEN ME USE A CALCULATOR!! YOU DON'T KNOW!

 

I'm telling you that it is borderline impossible for someone to be a 15.4 handicap hitting six greens because of his short game unless you have one of the worst short games of all time anyone has ever seen. You must be duffing at least a third of your short game shots. Its probably not even possible unless you hit at least one short game shot into the water or OB. Its just math dude. Sorry, what you're saying is nonsensical. If you had said "I'm a weaker player, 15 cap, love blades" I wouldn't have posted. But to say you have a "good" long game as a 15?! C'mon now. C'mon.

 

I don't think you're lying. I think you've somehow managed to convince yourself of it because its more noble / manly to have a monster long game and be weak around the green. But your math doesn't work.

 

Walk us through a typical round where you add almost 19 strokes around the twelve green complex you miss.

 

Key Point: you are a 15 that hits six greens. Which means six of the holes you are a scratch golfer (<- i don't think you get how this works). Which means you 15.4 cap is coming from only the remaining twelve, which means you have to play those in 20.4 over par due to your short game. No freaking way my friend. And since pros and scratches three putt sometimes too, subtract their three putt rate from your don't just use yours.

 

And this isn't an attack on you, its designed to help you.

 

if you hook a ball twenty yards left leaving a difficult chip that has to run up a green mound, pop over, and stop after 8 feet, that is an iron mistake, no matter how badly you hit it with a wedge. The idea that you're elite ball striking is setting you up around the greens well and you're just blading chips into the water from decent lies consistently is hard to believe.

Not sure if you've read my above posts or not, but this will be the last time I ever give you a reply or put any attention towards any of your posts. My GIR estimate was an ESTIMATE. I've never counted. I could only hit 3 GIR on average a round. Idk how many different ways I can say it. Hopefully it makes you feel better to come into threads and try to constantly debunk other people's golf claims on a forum. Battle on, keyboard warrior.

[pinestreetgolf]

Sorry to disturb you up there on your high horse, but I have a slight issue with your maths, which kind of makes most of the rest of your post irrelevant. If someone is hitting 6 GIR and 2 putting, then if the rest involve a chip and 2 putts then they are playing to 12. Assuming Par 72 that's an 84, then it only takes a couple of balls in the drink or OB and you're shooting 87. So basically, the OP is getting grief for not accounting for 3 shots. Over 4 hours of golf.

 

That's not how handicaps work. You are not a 10 cap if you shoot 82. A handicap indicates your potential *not* your average score.

 

His math is correct.

 

You assume that a better handicap would get up and down every time. Re-read my initial post. A pro is up and down 67% of the time. So he must be doing much, much worse than chipping and two putting every hole. We're not questioning his score (although maybe we should be) but the fact that short game is the reason why he shoots those scores.

 

If he hacks up on the green and two putts every single time off six hit greens (missing twelve), he would shoot an 84 with no doubles. A pro hitting six greens would shoot a 78. He's losing about six shots to a pro, not 15+, due to his short game. Your post reads as if good players are 90% to get up and down. The best in the world are just below 70% so we compare to that.

 

Anyway you slice the cake and regardless of what clubs are in his hand, claiming you hit six greens a round but lose 15 strokes-ish a round to short game is ridiculous. That's more than a stroke lost per hole (Note: it is *not* "an extra stroke per hole" its "a stroke lost to a scractch golfer per hole for that same course") which isn't possible. The scratch isn't getting down in 24 from those 12 missed greens. A tour pro is getting down in, on average, about 36 shots (65%). For the OP's numbers to be true (Again, depending on rating) he'd have to be taking four plus shots on multiple holes once in or on the green.

 

The OP would have to make double or worse between 3.5 and 5.5 times *per round consistently* after already in green the complex in regulation for his claims to be true. There is no way.

 

Like I said, almost impossible unless he has one of the worst short games on Earth.

 

I think to assume amid-handicapper gets up and down in 3 shots from near or around the green might be erroneous. Could often be more.

 

For sure, but with six hit greens a round, he's shooting 87 if he does that every single time, which is significantly better than a 15.4 handicap. He'd have to be doubling or tripling from inside the green complex in regulation 2-5 times per round. A 15 cap doesn't average 87, a 15 cap shoot 87 about 20% of the time.

 

I don't dispute his handicap. I dispute the reason for it. If you think there's a 16-cap BMSGHMB ("buy my short game holds me back") then I've got some ocean front property in Kansas for sale.

[bub72ck]

I can definitely concur that playing clubs that are a tier below your abilities helps from a learning and feedback perspective. HItting shovels over and over keeps you on that crutch. I went from SGI to AP2's, and recently to MBs. They've helped me tremendously to learn how I'm mishitting. I've started to hit them well on the range and hoping it carries over to the course.

 

What do you mean "crutch"? What does the type of club have to do with the mechanics of the swing?

[pinestreetgolf]

Sorry to disturb you up there on your high horse, but I have a slight issue with your maths, which kind of makes most of the rest of your post irrelevant. If someone is hitting 6 GIR and 2 putting, then if the rest involve a chip and 2 putts then they are playing to 12. Assuming Par 72 that's an 84, then it only takes a couple of balls in the drink or OB and you're shooting 87. So basically, the OP is getting grief for not accounting for 3 shots. Over 4 hours of golf.

 

That's not how handicaps work. You are not a 10 cap if you shoot 82. A handicap indicates your potential *not* your average score.

 

His math is correct.

 

You assume that a better handicap would get up and down every time. Re-read my initial post. A pro is up and down 67% of the time. So he must be doing much, much worse than chipping and two putting every hole. We're not questioning his score (although maybe we should be) but the fact that short game is the reason why he shoots those scores.

 

If he hacks up on the green and two putts every single time off six hit greens (missing twelve), he would shoot an 84 with no doubles. A pro hitting six greens would shoot a 78. He's losing about six shots to a pro, not 15+, due to his short game. Your post reads as if good players are 90% to get up and down. The best in the world are just below 70% so we compare to that.

 

Anyway you slice the cake and regardless of what clubs are in his hand, claiming you hit six greens a round but lose 15 strokes-ish a round to short game is ridiculous. That's more than a stroke lost per hole (Note: it is *not* "an extra stroke per hole" its "a stroke lost to a scractch golfer per hole for that same course") which isn't possible. The scratch isn't getting down in 24 from those 12 missed greens. A tour pro is getting down in, on average, about 36 shots (65%). For the OP's numbers to be true (Again, depending on rating) he'd have to be taking four plus shots on multiple holes once in or on the green.

 

The OP would have to make double or worse between 3.5 and 5.5 times *per round consistently* after already in green the complex in regulation for his claims to be true. There is no way.

 

Like I said, almost impossible unless he has one of the worst short games on Earth.

 

This must be a Europe/US thing, as over here, that is exactly how handicaps work. Do 3 cards, if you average +10 over the 3 cards you're given a handicap of 10, which is then refined during the course of competition. When you get to that point Standard Scratch becomes a factor sure, but on most courses that tends to hover around par anyway. Sure if OP is playing Ryder Cup venues every week then his score will be higher, but I think it's a fair assumption that's not the case.

 

And not sure where you got the fact I thought 90% up and down was in any way a possibility? If anything, I would have thought from my post even getting near 50% would yield massive benefits?

 

Last post for a while so as not to monopolize a thread! Delted the other one directly at the guy who keeps calling me "warrior". I'm not sure what that means. You said six GIR, so that's what I went with. Everyone knows what you said isn't true, man. Its OK. Nobody cares. You like MP-18s and either made up a whole thing in your head to post or something. I don't know. But good luck with all of it. Next time, if you have no idea how many GIR you hit well, don't post up how many GIR you hit.

 

Anyway, getting to 50% would make him borderline tour level! What I was saying is that he said he hits six greens, so those have to come out of the analysis. The analysis before was four to get up and down on 12, which is 48, which would be a *great score* on the six hit greens. But the guy also said he three and four putts "four times" a round, so it has to get even worse - you can't count the six as pars. So unless he's hitting six greens and then always three putting just the six greens he has hit he isn't getting down in three more than a third of the time.

 

This is why I checked out on this guy a few pages ago. He doesn't seem to have much respect for reality. He hits six greens, then he three putts a ton, then he might hit three greens, etc... etc....

 

The points have been made. 1. He likes MP-18s and 2. He is either lying or has no idea what is going on in his golf game. Now that he is furiously changing stories, its difficult for us to actually calculate what he is saying (hence my deleted post he quoted). But the initial point was six greens, numerous three putts (not just on those greens) and a short game adding around 20 strokes in 12 holes to scratch (not to zero - that would be excellent - but to what a scratch *would do*, which is bad).

 

Since he also said he shoots 87, its pretty clear he isn't actually calculating a handicap, as that isn't how it works (not to mention slope and rating).

 

Let's all just get back to discussing how sweet MP-18s are.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Sorry to disturb you up there on your high horse, but I have a slight issue with your maths, which kind of makes most of the rest of your post irrelevant. If someone is hitting 6 GIR and 2 putting, then if the rest involve a chip and 2 putts then they are playing to 12. Assuming Par 72 that's an 84, then it only takes a couple of balls in the drink or OB and you're shooting 87. So basically, the OP is getting grief for not accounting for 3 shots. Over 4 hours of golf.

 

That's not how handicaps work. You are not a 10 cap if you shoot 82. A handicap indicates your potential *not* your average score.

 

His math is correct.

 

You assume that a better handicap would get up and down every time. Re-read my initial post. A pro is up and down 67% of the time. So he must be doing much, much worse than chipping and two putting every hole. We're not questioning his score (although maybe we should be) but the fact that short game is the reason why he shoots those scores.

 

If he hacks up on the green and two putts every single time off six hit greens (missing twelve), he would shoot an 84 with no doubles. A pro hitting six greens would shoot a 78. He's losing about six shots to a pro, not 15+, due to his short game. Your post reads as if good players are 90% to get up and down. The best in the world are just below 70% so we compare to that.

 

Anyway you slice the cake and regardless of what clubs are in his hand, claiming you hit six greens a round but lose 15 strokes-ish a round to short game is ridiculous. That's more than a stroke lost per hole (Note: it is *not* "an extra stroke per hole" its "a stroke lost to a scractch golfer per hole for that same course") which isn't possible. The scratch isn't getting down in 24 from those 12 missed greens. A tour pro is getting down in, on average, about 36 shots (65%). For the OP's numbers to be true (Again, depending on rating) he'd have to be taking four plus shots on multiple holes once in or on the green.

 

The OP would have to make double or worse between 3.5 and 5.5 times *per round consistently* after already in green the complex in regulation for his claims to be true. There is no way.

 

Like I said, almost impossible unless he has one of the worst short games on Earth.

 

I think to assume amid-handicapper gets up and down in 3 shots from near or around the green might be erroneous. Could often be more.

 

For sure, but with six hit greens a round, he's shooting 87 if he does that every single time, which is significantly better than a 15.4 handicap. He'd have to be doubling or tripling from inside the green complex in regulation 2-5 times per round. A 15 cap doesn't average 87, a 15 cap shoot 87 about 20% of the time.

 

I don't dispute his handicap. I dispute the reason for it. If you think there's a 16-cap BMSGHMB ("buy my short game holds me back") then I've got some ocean front property in Kansas for sale.

 

Are you arguing with yourself?

[MelloYello]

If one seeks to avoid judgement, they'd definitely be wise to stay off internet message boards. That's life. Posting on anonymous forums will only invite a slew of blunt responses, few of which make any attempt to be politically-correct. A person must learn to handle criticism as it's a part of life. This is 2019. The internet has been here for awhile and it's time to put up or shut up.

 

IMHO, it's a good thing. Anonymity allows people to submit their actual (politically-incorrect) beliefs which mostly stem from anecdotal experience. Dialogue might be more intense but conflicts are more apparent and resolutions can be found faster. I applaud the folks who debate honestly because otherwise we'd never get to read anything worth our time. Posting only to remind everyone that it's a free country isn't useful.

 

Part of being social is getting smacked around a little when you act silly--and yeah, if we're honest virtually any handicap golfer playing blades when there are so many other appealing options that are easier and can improve scoring simply demonstrates the lust people have for prestige.

 

Funny thing is, I think the lust for blades is really dying down. With all the actual low-handicap and scratch-level talent I see around me at local courses, I virtually never run into anyone playing blades. It used to be all about TW. I strongly suspect that what he used was a huge factor in people lusting for blades. Rory pushed that as well when he came around, if only slightly.

 

But youngsters now-a-days don't worship one guy. They see a dozen guys who all differ in what brands they support, what clubs they use and what set make-ups they utilize.

 

So while I think the visual allure will remain, a lot of this silly lust for blades will evaporate away.

 

I know I grew up in the TW-era and I used blades quite often. But the older I get, the more I don't care about that. I guess I used to think that playing blades meant you were a good ball-striker but over time I got to see so many ridiculously good players who could out-do me, I stopped associating blades with performance.

 

Today, I tend to associate blades with people who are basically hard-line purists. For awhile I could ascribe my own preference for blades to the fact I hadn't ever found a CB I truly loved but once that happened I realized the whole obsession with blades thing was about me and my own lust.

 

Are MBs eye-catching? Sure, but why would someone give a F if they found a CB that was equally a tasteful?

 

IDK but it sure seems like a phase people go through. That's my experience.

[Andus]

716 & 718 CBs are gorgeous too, not far off at all from an MB in my opinion. Maybe it is a phase, probably is, but it's one I'm happy to go through!

[bub72ck]

If one seeks to avoid judgement, they'd definitely be wise to stay off internet message boards. That's life. Posting on anonymous forums will only invite a slew of blunt responses, few of which make any attempt to be politically-correct. A person must learn to handle criticism as it's a part of life. This is 2019. The internet has been here for awhile and it's time to put up or shut up.

 

IMHO, it's a good thing. Anonymity allows people to submit their actual (politically-incorrect) beliefs which mostly stem from anecdotal experience. Dialogue might be more intense but conflicts are more apparent and resolutions can be found faster. I applaud the folks who debate honestly because otherwise we'd never get to read anything worth our time. Posting only to remind everyone that it's a free country isn't useful.

 

Part of being social is getting smacked around a little when you act silly--and yeah, if we're honest virtually any handicap golfer playing blades when there are so many other appealing options that are easier and can improve scoring simply demonstrates the lust people have for prestige.

 

Funny thing is, I think the lust for blades is really dying down. With all the actual low-handicap and scratch-level talent I see around me at local courses, I virtually never run into anyone playing blades. It used to be all about TW. I strongly suspect that what he used was a huge factor in people lusting for blades. Rory pushed that as well when he came around, if only slightly.

 

But youngsters now-a-days don't worship one guy. They see a dozen guys who all differ in what brands they support, what clubs they use and what set make-ups they utilize.

 

So while I think the visual allure will remain, a lot of this silly lust for blades will evaporate away.

 

I know I grew up in the TW-era and I used blades quite often. But the older I get, the more I don't care about that. I guess I used to think that playing blades meant you were a good ball-striker but over time I got to see so many ridiculously good players who could out-do me, I stopped associating blades with performance.

 

Today, I tend to associate blades with people who are basically hard-line purists. For awhile I could ascribe my own preference for blades to the fact I hadn't ever found a CB I truly loved but once that happened I realized the whole obsession with blades thing was about me and my own lust.

 

Are MBs eye-catching? Sure, but why would someone give a F if they found a CB that was equally a tasteful?

 

IDK but it sure seems like a phase people go through. That's my experience.

 

Very well said.

 

My last two golf groups were all + handicaps. 0 sets of blades in play. Could all those guys play them and play them well? Yes But, it's the mishits that everyone is trying to minimize.

 

That didn't seem to be the issue in this thread. It was the reasoning behind putting a set of blades in play. If you want to play them because you like the way they look or how they make you look, have at it. But, the justification that "forgiveness is overstated" or "all my shots are lost to short game" are incorrect and what I think people who disagreed had issue with.

 

Just as you said, this is the internet and you will get lots of opinions. These blade threads spiral out of control and it seems to always be the same types of people pitted against each other. I've never seen the OP hit a shot and I don't "know his game" but i've been playing golf for almost 30 years and every 15 handicap I've ever seen generally does the same types of things. That's where I draw my opinion from.

[MelloYello]

716 & 718 CBs are gorgeous too, not far off at all from an MB in my opinion. Maybe it is a phase, probably is, but it's one I'm happy to go through!

 

Yeah, and you know what? I don't mean "phase" to sound derogatory, bro. I went through the blade phase, in fact I started on blades pretty much because of looks and prestige. You do you. You'll arrive at the appropriate set given enough time. I bounced between blades and small CBs year after year for a decade. I started at 23 and am 33 now. It took this long for me to decide because this was the only time I actually found precisely what I wanted in a CB. I didn't mess up and get the wrong shaft or mistakenly go with a set that was too long/shot. I got a set that fit me great. I'm now contemplating adding a 2-iron because I love these so much.

 

BTW, these 716 CBs are quite different from the 716 MBs I had last year. I immediately noticed an improvement in forgiveness amongst the 3-7 which is where you want it. That's why I said I think you got it right going with a CB in the 4-6 in your set. Trust me, you don't want to hit a 4- or 5- blades if you don't have to. There's literally no advantage when all you want out of those clubs is ball-speed and height. Virtually nobody is wishing they could hit their 4-iron lower.

[bub72ck]

716 & 718 CBs are gorgeous too, not far off at all from an MB in my opinion. Maybe it is a phase, probably is, but it's one I'm happy to go through!

 

Yeah, and you know what? I don't mean "phase" to sound derogatory, bro. I went through the blade phase, in fact I started on blades pretty much because of looks and prestige. You do you. You'll arrive at the appropriate set given enough time. I bounced between blades and small CBs year after year for a decade. I started at 23 and am 33 now. It took this long for me to decide because this was the only time I actually found precisely what I wanted in a CB. I didn't mess up and get the wrong shaft or mistakenly go with a set that was too long/shot. I got a set that fit me great. I'm now contemplating adding a 2-iron because I love these so much.

 

BTW, these 716 CBs are quite different from the 716 MBs I had last year. I immediately noticed an improvement in forgiveness amongst the 3-7 which is where you want it. That's why I said I think you got it right going with a CB in the 4-6 in your set. Trust me, you don't want to hit a 4- or 5- blades if you don't have to. There's literally no advantage when all you want out of those clubs is ball-speed and height. Virtually nobody is wishing they could hit their 4-iron lower.

 

Same here! Also went through a low lofted driver phase. I played a 6* Biggest Big Bertha at one point. It was great for sniping squirrels at 275!

[Tree Levino]

If one seeks to avoid judgement, they'd definitely be wise to stay off internet message boards. That's life. Posting on anonymous forums will only invite a slew of blunt responses, few of which make any attempt to be politically-correct. A person must learn to handle criticism as it's a part of life. This is 2019. The internet has been here for awhile and it's time to put up or shut up.

 

IMHO, it's a good thing. Anonymity allows people to submit their actual (politically-incorrect) beliefs which mostly stem from anecdotal experience. Dialogue might be more intense but conflicts are more apparent and resolutions can be found faster. I applaud the folks who debate honestly because otherwise we'd never get to read anything worth our time. Posting only to remind everyone that it's a free country isn't useful.

 

Part of being social is getting smacked around a little when you act silly--and yeah, if we're honest virtually any handicap golfer playing blades when there are so many other appealing options that are easier and can improve scoring simply demonstrates the lust people have for prestige.

 

Funny thing is, I think the lust for blades is really dying down. With all the actual low-handicap and scratch-level talent I see around me at local courses, I virtually never run into anyone playing blades. It used to be all about TW. I strongly suspect that what he used was a huge factor in people lusting for blades. Rory pushed that as well when he came around, if only slightly.

 

But youngsters now-a-days don't worship one guy. They see a dozen guys who all differ in what brands they support, what clubs they use and what set make-ups they utilize.

 

So while I think the visual allure will remain, a lot of this silly lust for blades will evaporate away.

 

I know I grew up in the TW-era and I used blades quite often. But the older I get, the more I don't care about that. I guess I used to think that playing blades meant you were a good ball-striker but over time I got to see so many ridiculously good players who could out-do me, I stopped associating blades with performance.

 

Today, I tend to associate blades with people who are basically hard-line purists. For awhile I could ascribe my own preference for blades to the fact I hadn't ever found a CB I truly loved but once that happened I realized the whole obsession with blades thing was about me and my own lust.

 

Are MBs eye-catching? Sure, but why would someone give a F if they found a CB that was equally a tasteful?

 

IDK but it sure seems like a phase people go through. That's my experience.

 

Very well said.

 

My last two golf groups were all + handicaps. 0 sets of blades in play. Could all those guys play them and play them well? Yes But, it's the mishits that everyone is trying to minimize.

 

That didn't seem to be the issue in this thread. It was the reasoning behind putting a set of blades in play. If you want to play them because you like the way they look or how they make you look, have at it. But, the justification that "forgiveness is overstated" or "all my shots are lost to short game" are incorrect and what I think people who disagreed had issue with.

 

Just as you said, this is the internet and you will get lots of opinions. These blade threads spiral out of control and it seems to always be the same types of people pitted against each other. I've never seen the OP hit a shot and I don't "know his game" but i've been playing golf for almost 30 years and every 15 handicap I've ever seen generally does the same types of things. That's where I draw my opinion from.

 

Correct. I can get around a course with blades no issue and be somewhere in the low to mid 80s. Guys I play with that are sneaky good and consistently scare par ALL use a cavity of some kind (AP2, Apex Pro, CB). Aside from a combo set it's all cavity. The reason is that tiny miss can mean the difference in a GIR or even just having a short chip on from the fringe rather than trying to hack it out of some messed up rough. If you think blades look cool in your bag good for you. I play to get better and I can get all of the looks I need out of a tiny cavity but the reward in forgiveness to a true MB is drastic and you're kidding yourself if you don't think it's there.

[nsxguy]

Are you arguing with yourself?

 

Cleaning up too many nested quotes can get messy at times. :cheesy:

[lenman73]

I disagree with people saying someone can't have that bad a short game as it is a fact. I work with a kid that pounds the ball off the tee and fairway. You could build a mall between our 2 tee shots. But I average beating him by 10 or more strokes being a short hitter. He can be next to the green in 2, then proceed to chip over the green twice and then 3 putt when finally on. I joke with him and tell him I will buy him a beer if he don't 3 putt from 5 feet.

 

When I come on here, I speak for me, not the majority of the earth. I don't speak in absolutes for someone I never met. Me and the OP, the only thing we have in common is liking blades. Our caps are close, he is a long hitter with a bad short game, I am a short hitter with a good short game.

 

I started playing 30 years ago with a hand me down set with persimmon woods. I didn't buy new sticks until 1999. I like looking down at a small iron as opposed to a sgi, I feel more confident looking at a smaller club. Owning both, I know using my sgi set, I did not become 12 strokes better or even 2 strokes. I worked the blades out of the bag because of mishits, not the out come but the sensation caused by it. Now that I only have one set of blades left I will goof around with them when I walk 9 early in the morning when the ground is still damp and soft. But to this day, If I were on a driving range and some held a gun to my head and said you need to hit a good shot or bang and let me choose between my old 4 iron blade or my wilson DiII sgi 4 iron, I will grab the blade every time. I know it won't go as far with 8 degrees more loft but I will hit it good enough to avoid being shot. The newer irons when lofts started getting jacked have never worked that good for me. Longer shaft, bigger head, thicker soul and a lot less loft. Just a recipe for disaster for me. That being said I am trying to work through it, not for results but for comfort on mishits. This winter I joined an indoor league on simulators, I had to go out and get a set of irons with graphite shafts because the pain in my wrist from hitting the steel on a matt was too much. Don't bother me outside though.

 

But this post is about my game, not telling someone else about theirs.

[nsxguy]

Sorry to disturb you up there on your high horse, but I have a slight issue with your maths, which kind of makes most of the rest of your post irrelevant. If someone is hitting 6 GIR and 2 putting, then if the rest involve a chip and 2 putts then they are playing to 12. Assuming Par 72 that's an 84, then it only takes a couple of balls in the drink or OB and you're shooting 87. So basically, the OP is getting grief for not accounting for 3 shots. Over 4 hours of golf.

 

Also a bit ironic that you accuse people of not knowing their games, yet when people post actual stats from recent games they don;t count for some spurious reason - oh yes, because the CB's were rentals. Even though they were set up in the same way as every set of irons that golfer has used (off the rack). Plus, if MB's are as impossible to use as some people think, AP2's should be easy to adjust to and get instant results from. So whilst hitting one less GIR is to be expected, hitting 4 less? In the context of a thread discussing whether easier irons to hit will improve your GIR, that sounds fairly pertinent, no?

 

I look at games with rentals as Try Before you Buy opportunities (and it's worked, I'm about to go buy an 818 H2 based on the one I borrowed at the same time), and based on the experience I had, I have no interest in trying AP2's for a season to see if I magically hit an additional green a round at the end of it. I'd rather improve my current swing and do that with the VR Pros. As, being blades, they encourage me to practice more ;)

 

Talk about irony. Sorry you feel that someone with a different opinion than yours is on their "high horse". Are you on yours ? :blink:

 

As psg has already corrected your "maths", I won't bother much but at 84, especially from most CR/slopes I've seen that 12 would be more of an 8, not to mention that I don't think I've seen anybody that plays with any frequency and who can hit 6 GIRS, go 0 for 12 at getting up and down. Almost by mistake they're going to get a few up and down.

 

Suffice it to say though, I saw you are in the UK and CONGU and USGA handicapping are not directly comparable. Next January we won't have that problem.

 

As for trying before buying, by all means. Clubs are expensive. I would expect to try and buy. But to me, you sounded as if you were concluding the CBs were no good because you only hit 22% of greens in ONE round. That is ridiculous. If I misread your "conclusion", I apologize.

 

And if blades encourage you to practice more, IMO, there's something wrong with your attitude towards the game. The game, and trying to improve at it, should want to make you practice more; not the clubs you play with. Just one person's opinion. ;)

[Tree Levino]

OP is new, he may not know there have been 936,000 threads on this very topic.

Yeah I am new, I didn't know there have been so many threads previously. But, obviously lots of people are still interested in the topic and have very strong opinions about it.

 

In regards to all of the warriors saying the math doesn't add up blah blah blah, like I mentioned above, I really haven't ever paid attention over 10 rounds to how many GIR I hit or how many bad chips, or 3 putts. I was trying to give information about my game because I guess people can't believe I play to a 15-16 handicap? Or maybe it's that their opinions are the reason I made this thread; blades are not just for the 0-5 handicap players in my opinion.

 

@Nsxguy, First off, I do think the 2 handicapper drank the marketing kool-aid, big time. You don't, we have different opinions. I think you drank your own kool-aid lol. You're accusing me of lying and not being honest here/myself but guess what? At the end of every round I play, I put my golf score into my GHIN app. I'm currently playing to a 15.4. That's not debatable. As I said above, all of the warriors (including yourself and PSG) come in this thread and try to debunk my golf game by telling me it's not my short game, but rather my iron game when you've never even seen me swing a club. Think about that. I don't care if you have 20 posts on this forum or 10,000, if that's the way you act, I couldn't care less about your opinion.

 

 

Many of the guys I play with can hit the ball just fine and get around the course but getting clean contact with the ball is not the same thing as having a good swing. Even if you are hitting a reasonable amount of GIR etc etc it is very possible, and probable that blades are hurting your proximity to the hole. If you have a 10 foot putt rather than 30 foot putt your 3 putt percentage is going to be way lower. If you're less off line you may have a simpler chip onto the green rather than being in the long stuff etc. Aside from aesthetics I can't see one good reason why a 15 cap would play blades. Just because you're making contact with the ball doesn't mean you have a good long game. There is a reason your cap is 15. I'm not saying you're lying about it I'm quite sure it is what it is but giving over 15 shots to the golf course means something is up and I guarantee it isn't just short game.

[beautytherot]

to me, blades are the ultimate gi irons. you get all the feedback you need on bad swings, and that will require you to practice to make better swing, wheres as the real gi clubs just band aid a bad swing.. imho

[tgoodspe1991]

I personally don't buy into the whole "forgiveness" thing too much. Sure, a big fat hunk of metal with much more toe weighting might help you pull a few more yards out of a mishit, but the reality is, regardless of the iron you're playing the shot is going to be a bad shot whether you get 5 extra yards or not.

 

Nevertheless, these irons have helped me find the middle of the club more often than not and best of all have inspired me to play golf even more. Every time I see these irons in my golf bag, I can't help myself put to go pull one out and just admire the beauty (I know, I'm a loser).

 

 

 

 

I've pulled two quotes from your message OP. The first I disagree with. If you lose, say, 10% distance with a mishit on a blade, but only 5% on a mishit with a larger iron, that could potentially be a large difference in overall score outcome. On a 180y shot that's 9y closer to the hole (27 feet) which can be the different between being on the green to putt or being well off the green having to chip. If you are putting versus chipping, then statistically people will 2-putt way more often than they will get up and down. Even to your example, 5y is 15ft. Being 15ft closer to the hole means a 15ft closer putt, or putting when you're instead chipping, chipping from closer to the hole, or maybe just clearing that front bunker or water when otherwise you might not have. This is obviously a small example, but to say that all bad shots or all miss-hits are created equal doesn't seem true.

 

However, with that being said, the part in bold in the second part is the most important IMO. You're not a loser at all. If you are more inspired to get out and play golf, and are getting more enjoyment and happiness from the game then that's the single most important thing above all else.

[JoeJoeJoeUrBoat]

Whenever I have my CB 501s in the bag I feel my ball striking getting better, mainly off the feedback. But the AP2s off the toe/heel or even thin just get so much closer to the flag.

 

Not sure why handicap keeps being brought up in threads like these. Generally a 20 handicapper (for argument sake) shouldn't be playing blades... But what if he has a terrible short game and is horrible with the driver? What if he hits the blades pure? Why wouldn't be be gaming them? Ball striking and handicap do go hand and hand to a certain degree, but they're not a 1:1 relation. Good ball striking does not equal low scores, nor does poor ball striking equate to poor scores.

 

The last 3-4 years I've struggled with ball striking and still got down to as low as a 3 handicap at one very brief point. Mostly hovering last year around 4-5. My short game makes up for my misses. But there are people who are on the opposite end of the spectrum.

[jpking17]

There are a lot of ways to play this game...I personally choose the way that makes the score card look best not the golf bag.

[nsxguy]

Yeah I am new, I didn't know there have been so many threads previously. But, obviously lots of people are still interested in the topic and have very strong opinions about it.

 

In regards to all of the warriors saying the math doesn't add up blah blah blah, like I mentioned above, I really haven't ever paid attention over 10 rounds to how many GIR I hit or how many bad chips, or 3 putts. I was trying to give information about my game because I guess people can't believe I play to a 15-16 handicap? Or maybe it's that their opinions are the reason I made this thread; blades are not just for the 0-5 handicap players in my opinion.

 

@Nsxguy, First off, I do think the 2 handicapper drank the marketing kool-aid, big time. You don't, we have different opinions. I think you drank your own kool-aid lol. You're accusing me of lying and not being honest here/myself but guess what? At the end of every round I play, I put my golf score into my GHIN app. I'm currently playing to a 15.4. That's not debatable. As I said above, all of the warriors (including yourself and PSG) come in this thread and try to debunk my golf game by telling me it's not my short game, but rather my iron game when you've never even seen me swing a club. Think about that. I don't care if you have 20 posts on this forum or 10,000, if that's the way you act, I couldn't care less about your opinion.

 

Dude, now you're just ranting for the sake of ranting.

 

You couldn't care less about my opinion ? I'm hurt. I really am. Not sure how I'll make it through the day. :rolleyes:

 

You use the word "warrior" as a pejorative; in the same manner one would use the word "moron". That somehow makes you "better" ? That's an "argument" ? (Hint: the answer is "no")

 

I didn't tell you it was your irons. I didn't say ANYTHING about your irons or anybody else's other than "play what you want for whatever reasons you want". I also didn't tell you it wasn't your short game. Your short game sucks. I believe you.

 

So people who don't agree with you and provided opinions contrary to yours are "warriors" ? And you are what again ? At least they've been there and done that and have the experience and handicap to prove it and you think THEY are drinking the Kool-Aid ? You're not drinking the Kool-Aid ? YOU know the "truth" ? :cheesy:

 

I am not accusing you of "lying" per se. I, and others, are accusing you of not knowing what's going on with your game. That's actually very common, especially amongst those unfamiliar with the game. And of course you're right. Your handicap is not debatable but then nobody's debating your handicap. They're debating how you GOT there. And, as it turns out, you (finally) admit you don't really know. :blink:

 

As others have pointed out 6 GIRs per round is very unusual for a 15. But now you admit you really don't know. So which posts of yours are we supposed to rely on ?

 

Frankly, when I was 24 14, I knew it all too. But by the time I was 24 I realized I didn't know quite as much :rolleyes: as I thought I did. Don't worry. You'll get there eventually,,,,,,,,,,,, I think,,,,,,,,,,, :good: