My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

[BiggErn]

 

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

 

https://www.google.com

[dciccoritti]

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

 

https://www.google.com

 

Didn't think so.

[bub72ck]

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

There are plenty of videos on Youtube that show data related to dispersion, and distance. But, as cliffhanger said below most of the videos can be steered towards an opinion and will be construed as such. Another issue is the jacked up lofts of today's irons. Most people are looking for more distance instead of more consistency.

 

Also, much of the data I consider is the scores and ability of other good players. Low single digits, + handicappers, mini-tour players, and PGA tour professionals that I know personally. I know of maybe 1 or 2 that play blades and the feedback from the majority is very similar. Shot patterns are better and thus scores are lower with some forgiveness. If that means I agree with the better players over those with higher handicaps, I feel confident in my decision.

[cliffhanger]

I don't think that people generally are being unrealistic with the state of their games

 

He literally came back later in the thread and admitted he made most of it up (which is just as well because it didn't make any sense). Nobody hits a third of the greens but shoots 90 anyway because of their short game on the other 12. I don't think he did it on purpose. I think a lot of guys like the idea that they're great at bashing but bad at the stuff like chipping and putting even though that is almost never actually true.

 

This isn't confined to golf. "I would get promoted, but i'm just too damn nice to people. That's my problem. Too nice. Never be successful because of how nice I am."

*hardest eye roll humanly possible*

 

i have seen tests performed from both sides including the Crossfield "it doesn't matter between CB's and MB's" video and they all come down to one thing, an opinion. These tests can be performed in a way that allows someone's agenda to be pushed. I also see a lot of opinion in the posts on this thread. If someone states that something is helping their game, then until proven otherwise i have no reason not to believe them. Even when that statement goes against everything that i believe in. There are exceptions to every rule, again until proven otherwise. These exceptions include variable handicaps for different facets of the game. Then there is the belief by some that the mind can be tricked into believing something if it is wanted bad enough. That logic and theory takes a back seat to desire and the mind allows it. I am not sure about that but, until proven otherwise.

 

I think its not that the tests themselves are flawed, but the interpretation of them, and what constitutes "better". This thread is (somewhat) silly because it goes like this -

 

Joe: CBs are more forgiving. Worse players should use 'em.

Tom: Nope, CBs are not that more forgiving than blades. Players can play whatever.

Joe: Idiot.

Tom: Moron.

etc...

 

Note that nowhere in there did anybody actually define "forgiving". It is a scientific fact that ball speed is maintained better on twist hits (toe/heel) relative to the amount of mass behind the head in that spot. That isn't debatable, its physics. What IS debatable is how much that matters to that little paper card you carry around that tells you how well you did. Usually everyone in these threads just wastes a ton of time arguing whether or not CBs are more forgiving (spoiler alert: they are) instead of what actually matters, which is if that small amount of forgiveness is relevant to the score you card.

 

Example: in order for a CB to "forgive" your strike, you have to have good alignment. If you don't, a CB will push the ball (through the higher mass) down your body line, which could be way right or left of where you *think* you've aimed. A blade will spin, so if you line up left and hit it on the toe you probably will get a better result out of a blade (you want it to twist and open, you're aligned left). So I'm not sure I'm on board with this idea that making the ball go straight and farther is good for everybody who is a high cap. I've got a super high cap buddy who aims about 60* right on every shot. Its bizzare. He doesn't want clubs that send the ball down his target line (even though he doesn't realize it).

Like i said in my previous post, which was removed from your response... i think that some people are unable to break down the root cause of their faults. There is a difference between that and being unrealistic.

[pinestreetgolf]

Like i said in my previous post, which was removed from your response... i think that some people are unable to break down the root cause of their faults. There is a difference between that and being unrealistic.

 

Maybe so. You are more charitable toward them than I am. I think they know full well you (basically) can't lose 15 strokes to a scratch in the short game in just 12 holes. But maybe you're right. Maybe it is a lack of knowledge about scoring works instead of self-deception.

[cliffhanger]

Like i said in my previous post, which was removed from your response... i think that some people are unable to break down the root cause of their faults. There is a difference between that and being unrealistic.

 

Maybe so. You are more charitable toward them than I am. I think they know full well you (basically) can't lose 15 strokes to a scratch in the short game in just 12 holes. But maybe you're right. Maybe it is a lack of knowledge about scoring works instead of self-deception.

i have 4 putted from 15 feet after getting home in two on a par 5... s*** does happen. Thats why i am sympathetic to others i guess. With that said i do see the difference between that scenario and a scenario where i miss a green by 15 yards left and then can't get up and down for par. Two different root causes.

[dciccoritti]

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

There are plenty of videos on Youtube that show data related to dispersion, and distance. But, as cliffhanger said below most of the videos can be steered towards an opinion and will be construed as such. Another issue is the jacked up lofts of today's irons. Most people are looking for more distance instead of more consistency.

 

Also, much of the data I consider is the scores and ability of other good players. Low single digits, + handicappers, mini-tour players, and PGA tour professionals that I know personally. I know of maybe 1 or 2 that play blades and the feedback from the majority is very similar. Shot patterns are better and thus scores are lower with some forgiveness. If that means I agree with the better players over those with higher handicaps, I feel confident in my decision.

 

Why don't you show me your YT videos and I'll post links to all the ones I've seen. I would not consider any of them proper tests but everything I've seen disputes what you say. Don't get me wrong, I've never disputed MOI and spring face technology however I have a very firm belief that there's a tradeoff with everything. Equipment that has a positive effect in SOME instances will have a negative effect in other instances...and vice versa. Up to the individual to decide what positives he or she values more OR what negatives they don't want to deal with.

[bub72ck]

Like i said in my previous post, which was removed from your response... i think that some people are unable to break down the root cause of their faults. There is a difference between that and being unrealistic.

 

Maybe so. You are more charitable toward them than I am. I think they know full well you (basically) can't lose 15 strokes to a scratch in the short game in just 12 holes. But maybe you're right. Maybe it is a lack of knowledge about scoring works instead of self-deception.

 

If it was all lost in short game it would HAVE to be bad putting alone or the majority of it. If you hit the woods and irons good enough to only lose strokes to short game, you're going to hit most of the GIR up to that point right? The scratch is going to hit most of the greens, maybe get up and down, maybe make a birdie or two. That means the other guy is going to ALSO hit most of the GIR (he's a good ball striker remember?) and therefore three putt every time or skull, blade, or duff a chip or three. It just doesn't make sense to me...

[BiggErn]

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

 

https://www.google.com

 

Didn't think so.

 

 

There’s literally hundreds of comparisons online and videos.

[bub72ck]

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

There are plenty of videos on Youtube that show data related to dispersion, and distance. But, as cliffhanger said below most of the videos can be steered towards an opinion and will be construed as such. Another issue is the jacked up lofts of today's irons. Most people are looking for more distance instead of more consistency.

 

Also, much of the data I consider is the scores and ability of other good players. Low single digits, + handicappers, mini-tour players, and PGA tour professionals that I know personally. I know of maybe 1 or 2 that play blades and the feedback from the majority is very similar. Shot patterns are better and thus scores are lower with some forgiveness. If that means I agree with the better players over those with higher handicaps, I feel confident in my decision.

 

Why don't you show me your YT videos and I'll post links to all the ones I've seen. I would not consider any of them proper tests but everything I've seen disputes what you say. Don't get me wrong, I've never disputed MOI and spring face technology however I have a very firm belief that there's a tradeoff with everything. Equipment that has a positive effect in SOME instances will have a negative effect in other instances...and vice versa. Up to the individual to decide what positives he or she values more OR what negatives they don't want to deal with.

 

Look at the videos Rick Shiels did with the mid handicapper and the AP1, AP2, CB, MB. Distance dispersion was much lower with the three CBs vs. the MB. Anywhere from 5 yards to 13 yards. That's anywhere from a half club to a full club. I did find it interesting that some of the guys most off line shots were with the AP1.

 

i agree with you that there is a tradeoff. I guess I just believe that the tradeoff of CBs and the forgiveness they offer (IMO) the average golfer outweighs all other considerations.

[lenman73]

At the OP's swing speed he could easily have some wayward shots off the tee. Being a decent iron player isn't always gonna help if a tree is inline with your next shot. I play with people who have better long games than mine, but by the green it is over for them. I wish I could play with more of the near pros you guys do where you never have to witness some of these debacles.

[dciccoritti]

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

 

https://www.google.com

 

Didn't think so.

 

 

There’s literally hundreds of comparisons online and videos.

 

Actually I've seen quite a few and none of them side with your perspective. Perhaps you can post a link of one that does. I'd love to see it.

[MelloYello]

Let's back up for a second here guys. The whole point of the equipment forum is to share our insights. Sometimes we can answer technical questions with factual answers to clarify a particular point such as how adjustable drivers work. We seek out opinions on other issues like forgiveness largely because the results of robot testing are not made public and as such we as a community need to work around that by asking others what experiences they had. That's the only way forward.

 

Therefore, it seems to me we ought to encourage everyone with relevant exposure to share their experiences. Likewise, we probably ought to refrain from condemning people's personal experience. After all, that's literally about all we can hope to accomplish here. But at the same time, it goes a long way. So first things first. To anyone who questions why we share personal experience in these types of forums--please get out. You clearly don't get it. You're nothing but trolls whether you sense it or not and snarky "why does anyone care" attitudes relegate you to my ignore list. You waste everyone's time and ironically, you're the ones that no one cares about because your shallow platitudes offer no value whatsoever.

 

 

But I digress...As someone who's played multiple sets of blades by popular OEMs like Titleist, Mizuno and Nike as well as forged cavity options from all of those same manufacturers, I openly welcome questions and embrace the sharing of experiences as I went through it for 10 years. I'm happy to give the OP my opinion if he wants to open a thread on the topic.

 

In my experience, one has to have well above-average speed and a great understanding (if not a complete ownership) of their swing in order to properly elevate and control a blade 5-iron each and every time they pull it for a shot. I could get around with a blade 5 but there's no doubt I hit my current CB 5 more consistently in general and better from less-than-perfect lies.

 

But what constitutes better? Well, I do hit it slightly higher and probably a bit further on average which helps. I seem to execute the shot shapes I intend more regularly which are a baby draw on my stock swing and a fade when absolutely needed. I therefore believe that not only are the individual shots often better but that it's easier for me to trust a club based upon past experience. And all that leads to my having a lot more confidence with the mid- and long-irons.

 

My theory is that the harsh feedback, loss of height, loss of carry, and exaggerated lateral miss associated with a badly-struck blade all have a detrimental effect on one's psyche. Those things are crippling as they erode confidence and promote (especially amongst handicap golfers who think WAY too much) a near constant awareness of the fact they have a blade in their hands. While a blade can seem thrilling on the occasional perfect shot, I've found that thinking about what type of club you're hitting is generally distracting and therefore bad.

 

My goal--and by extension the goal I think everyone should embrace--is to reach a level of comfort and familiarity that affords a golfer the freedom to pull a club without regard to what it is. We hear about unconscious putting. What I'm describing is similar. I want to be "unconscious" with respect to my other 13 clubs.

 

For instance, there's a long Par-3 at my home course which requires a 200- to 215-yard shot to reach the green. It's the hardest of our Par-3s and rarely does the entire group walk away with decent scores. It seems that at least someones gets bitten and cards a double bogey or worse. There is a large creek in front that will quickly eat up badly-struck shots. This bends up the right side so it guards 2 sides. A bunker guards another. The only miss is long-left which requires a 225-yd shot and results in a downhill chip.

 

If you pull a 3- or 4-iron and strike it badly, you're done because fat shots will inevitably come up short while wipes bleed right. Both misses end up wet. With a blade, this is a very intimidating hole. You need a big swing with flush contact and it cannot leak right. You might get cute and go hybrid, but then you start getting worried about straying too far left or right which bring big numbers into play all the same.

 

Since switching to my current CBs, I get to hit iron (the clear preference) but because it's not a pure blade, I never have to think about the fact it's a 3- or 4-iron. I just hit the shot with the same confidence I would a 6- or 7-iron. As I think back, I think I've hit the green there virtually every time since making the switch a few weeks back and when I've missed it's been slight. I've pulled off similar shots with a blade but the odds are clearly lower because I'm more anxious. You're never unaware (or "unconscious") of the fact you're pulling a blade long-iron from the bag. The worry and doubt will always creep in.

 

That right there is precisely what this whole conversation should be about IMHO. And no, it's not just long-irons. That same effect happens with mid-irons, too. Your confidence naturally grows with clubs that help you perform your best.

[farmer]

Like i said in my previous post, which was removed from your response... i think that some people are unable to break down the root cause of their faults. There is a difference between that and being unrealistic.

 

Maybe so. You are more charitable toward them than I am. I think they know full well you (basically) can't lose 15 strokes to a scratch in the short game in just 12 holes. But maybe you're right. Maybe it is a lack of knowledge about scoring works instead of self-deception.

I have a friend who was driven from the green by chipping yips. He was fully capable of making an 8 from just off the green in two. He reached the point where he would either chunk it, skull it or shank it until he picked up. Painful and horrible to watch, because he was probably a mid 80's player otherwise. An extreme example, not one the OP mentions in his game, but it does happen.

[cliffhanger]

it is definitely a matter of what your comfortable with. Myself i have never been afraid of pulling any iron out of the bag when i practiced on a regular basis. My setups in the past have been 2-SW with a driver, 3 wood and a putter. I spent so many years hooking the ball that i had given up on hitting any woods. During those years i spent countless hours of practice and countless rounds hitting long irons off the tee. Those sets were of all sizes and brands. So when i would come to a long par 3, at any handicap it wouldn't bother me at all to pull a 3 or 4 iron and expect to hit the green. Overall with my game i am definitely a better iron player than i am at anything else. That is a fact. When my iron game suffers like late last year, my terrible short game is exposed.

Put me on a long par 3 with all forced carry over water... doesn't bug me at all.

Put me on a fringe with any club in my hand besides a putter and i can be a bag of nerves.

[MelloYello]

it is definitely a matter of what your comfortable with. Myself i have never been afraid of pulling any iron out of the bag when i practiced on a regular basis. My setups in the past have been 2-SW with a driver, 3 wood and a putter. I spent so many years hooking the ball that i had given up on hitting any woods. During those years i spent countless hours of practice and countless rounds hitting long irons off the tee. Those sets were of all sizes and brands. So when i would come to a long par 3, at any handicap it wouldn't bother me at all to pull a 3 or 4 iron and expect to hit the green. Overall with my game i am definitely a better iron player than i am at anything else. That is a fact. When my iron game suffers like late last year, my terrible short game is exposed.

Put me on a long par 3 with all forced carry over water... doesn't bug me at all.

Put me on a fringe with any club in my hand besides a putter and i can be a bag of nerves.

 

Interesting.

 

This brings up whether players should learn the game from green-to-tee or vice versa. We hear the common refrain that people should learn from the green backwards but at the same time, stability in the long game goes a long way. There are undoubtedly players who have long games that simplify what they have to do and erratic driving can be a killer. We all know that.

 

To share a little about me--I play in a group where we're all reasonably long (260+ off the tee). I am the best wedge player of my group but one of the weakest off the tee (in terms of accuracy). Our best driver can nuke all of his long clubs from driver-to-5i but gets worse the closer in he is and has a very weak wedge game.

 

It's hard to say who's the better "ball-striker" with their irons because while I know more about working the ball and getting out of trouble, he's got more raw power and is able to hit some towering shots I simply can't.

 

Now if you were to ask me, I think his weak wedge game stems from his overly strong grip, his big weight shift and his across-the-line type of mechanics. They all seem to help him pound the ball but (I suspect) they also undermine his touch. As a result, I would think he's probably always going to suck around the green unless he makes some wholesale changes to his game. For that reason, I'd prefer not to trade places with him. I think he has the most work to do to be really good--to the point he breaks 80 on the regular. At present he fluctuates between high 70s and mid-90s based almost entirely on GIR (which will range from 4-12 for him). As soon as he misses a green, he's in big trouble. So if he's struggling with his irons/wedges and missing a lot of greens, he turns into a hack. At the same time I've seen him pound the ball, hit 12 greens and shoot in the 70s.

 

Such is golf.

 

I'd rather be the guy who's weakness is the occasional errant drive. Maybe I'm biased, but it seems to me that my driver issues are related to things like back-swing positions which can be tweaked relatively easily without negatively impacting my iron and wedge games. When I'm playing regularly and thus I'm keeping the ball in play, I hit greens and shoot respectable rounds between 75-85 largely because when I miss greens, I still have a chance to get up and down (and at worse make a simple bogey).

 

I'm biased--and this is just my own prejudiced view--but I don't really consider anyone to be a "good player" if they haven't learned how to get up and down. I can't really fathom sucking badly around the green and not going straight out and fixing that issue. During bad stretches with my driver, golf stops being fun. So I go and I fix it. I feel compelled to get the train back on the tracks so to speak. It's the same with putting.

 

And in my experience, getting the basics down with chipping and pitching is super simple so long as you work at it just a little. When I see guys say they're a mid-handicapper because of a bad short game I take that to mean they haven't even worked to address their short games and by extension they probably haven't even really taken full control over optimizing their practice in general.

 

When I see someone chunking wedges and flipping the club while chipping, I kind of write them off because it's a virtual certainty their long games are propped up by a series of compensations precisely because they're not practicing any element of their game seriously. The idea someone would be okay with that seems (at least to me) horribly out of whack. I think people often want to practice their irons because the results look better.

 

It's like going to the gym and sticking only to the treadmill. It's okay if you want to lose 10-lbs but doing some actual lifting helps a ton and is way more efficient in terms of the time one has to invest to lose weight and get in shape. But people avoid the weights because they're harder (without doubt).

 

In golf it's often more tedious and labor-intensive to practice the more extreme parts of the game (drives, short game & putting) because that's where we often have to become more disciplined. But to me that all begs an obvious question: why make the iron game harder than it needs to be when we all know we need to spend most of our time practicing other things!?

[A.G. Pennypacker]

Some of you people have way too much time on your hands.

[lenman73]

I am only talking about myself and my game. As an admitted short hitter, you will not be able to go back and find a post with me boasting how far I hit it, accuracy is a desired effect for me. Now due to pain, I am simply happy I can still play, but I worked blades out of my bag to go with clubs that simply don't hurt(pain not penal) me as much on the miss hits. But here is why I liked blades and was not fearful of using them. Plus I used older stuff. I have no idea about newer ones. But I liked them because the shaft was shorter and the loft was higher. I can hit a blade 4 iron with more consistency than a sgi 4 iron that is an inch and a half longer with much less loft. This is a fact. Not open for debate. Will the new one go farther, yes, but that isn't a problem if you know how far you hit clubs. But now I will have to adjust and be able to hit the new one.

 

But what I truly love is when someone comes in here a claims something just does not exist, I could go play tomorrow with my group and witness it all. Some folks spend a little too much time trying to prove to others how smart they are and in my opinion prove the opposite.

[cliffhanger]

it is definitely a matter of what your comfortable with. Myself i have never been afraid of pulling any iron out of the bag when i practiced on a regular basis. My setups in the past have been 2-SW with a driver, 3 wood and a putter. I spent so many years hooking the ball that i had given up on hitting any woods. During those years i spent countless hours of practice and countless rounds hitting long irons off the tee. Those sets were of all sizes and brands. So when i would come to a long par 3, at any handicap it wouldn't bother me at all to pull a 3 or 4 iron and expect to hit the green. Overall with my game i am definitely a better iron player than i am at anything else. That is a fact. When my iron game suffers like late last year, my terrible short game is exposed.

Put me on a long par 3 with all forced carry over water... doesn't bug me at all.

Put me on a fringe with any club in my hand besides a putter and i can be a bag of nerves.

 

Interesting.

 

This brings up whether players should learn the game from green-to-tee or vice versa. We hear the common refrain that people should learn from the green backwards but at the same time, stability in the long game goes a long way. There are undoubtedly players who have long games that simplify what they have to do and erratic driving can be a killer. We all know that.

 

To share a little about me--I play in a group where we're all reasonably long (260+ off the tee). I am the best wedge player of my group but one of the weakest off the tee (in terms of accuracy). Our best driver can nuke all of his long clubs from driver-to-5i but gets worse the closer in he is and has a very weak wedge game.

 

It's hard to say who's the better "ball-striker" with their irons because while I know more about working the ball and getting out of trouble, he's got more raw power and is able to hit some towering shots I simply can't.

 

Now if you were to ask me, I think his weak wedge game stems from his overly strong grip, his big weight shift and his across-the-line type of mechanics. They all seem to help him pound the ball but (I suspect) they also undermine his touch. As a result, I would think he's probably always going to suck around the green unless he makes some wholesale changes to his game. For that reason, I'd prefer not to trade places with him. I think he has the most work to do to be really good--to the point he breaks 80 on the regular. At present he fluctuates between high 70s and mid-90s based almost entirely on GIR (which will range from 4-12 for him). As soon as he misses a green, he's in big trouble. So if he's struggling with his irons/wedges and missing a lot of greens, he turns into a hack. At the same time I've seen him pound the ball, hit 12 greens and shoot in the 70s.

 

Such is golf.

 

I'd rather be the guy who's weakness is the occasional errant drive. Maybe I'm biased, but it seems to me that my driver issues are related to things like back-swing positions which can be tweaked relatively easily without negatively impacting my iron and wedge games. When I'm playing regularly and thus I'm keeping the ball in play, I hit greens and shoot respectable rounds between 75-85 largely because when I miss greens, I still I have a chance to get up and down (and at worse make a simple bogey).

 

I'm biased--and this is just my own prejudiced view--but I don't really consider anyone to be a "good player" if they can't get up and down. When I see someone chunking wedges and flipping the club while chipping, I kind of write-them off because it's a virtual certainty their long games are propped up by a series of compensations. In my experience watching guys, chipping and pitching is basic enough that if you haven't "found it" yet in those areas you're prone to blowing up. And in most cases that signifies you haven't done enough practicing to establish real control over your long game either--you're just getting by with a few cheats like my friend is with his super-strong grip.

In my case my issue with chipping/pitching was all mechanics. I was driving the club down and chunking everything. I actually got a tip from my kid lol... he is pretty good on and around the greens... your absolutely right in your conclusion, short game was not a priority in practicing... until now. I would disagree on the lack of long game control... i don't get by on a cheat of any sorts

[MelloYello]

In my case my issue with chipping/pitching was all mechanics. I was driving the club down and chunking everything. I actually got a tip from my kid lol... he is pretty good on and around the greens... your absolutely right in your conclusion, short game was not a priority in practicing... until now. I would disagree on the lack of long game control... i don't get by on a cheat of any sorts

 

Glad to hear things are headed in the right direction for you!

 

For me, the goal is to get better because that's what leads to the game being more rewarding (notice I didn't say fun). I give advice assuming people are trying to get better and my advice only makes sense from that perspective. If I ever get to the point of playing just for the heck of it regardless of score, I think I'd do something else: hiking, cycling, music, socializing...something. When I see good players in their 60s and 70s hanging it up because they know they're on the decline I completely understand it.

 

Props to anyone who actually, legitimately likes golf, haha. I don't know that I do. I'd say I'm addicted to the challenge, but if/when that overwhelms me I'm out.

[Roadking2003]

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

 

 

me too.

[randywall]

Hey guys, I know there are a lot of WRXers that absolutely love the look of blades but are a bit scared to actually consider playing with them (I was one of those people too a year ago).

 

A few months ago, I decided to buy a Mizuno combo set. I'm gaming 4-6 MP-18 SC, and 7-PW MP-18 MB. All of them have Modus 3 120 X flex shafts. To be honest, I almost wish I went 4-PW in the MB because I don't find the SC to be any more forgiving than the MB, however the feel is on par I'd say. My swing speed with driver is about 110MPH and with a 7 iron is around 93MPH.

 

I was a pretty decent ball striker but my handicap was awfully high due to my short game (putting & within 50 yards). I am a complete sucker for looks & feel, and those two attributes are probably most important to me when choosing clubs to play. With that said, the switch from GI irons to blades has been amazing for me. I personally don't buy into the whole "forgiveness" thing too much. Sure, a big fat hunk of metal with much more toe weighting might help you pull a few more yards out of a mishit, but the reality is, regardless of the iron you're playing the shot is going to be a bad shot whether you get 5 extra yards or not. Nevertheless, these irons have helped me find the middle of the club more often than not and best of all have inspired me to play golf even more. Every time I see these irons in my golf bag, I can't help myself put to go pull one out and just admire the beauty (I know, I'm a loser).

 

Anyway, my point in writing this is to hopefully inspire somebody else on the fence about blades to give them a try. If you have any other specific questions, ask away!

 

 

I really appreciate your post. I went to the Seattle golf show last month, and hit the different models of Mizuno clubs. With the blades my shots were going off to the right, so I know those aren't for me, because I'm obviously not hitting in the exact center of the face, and with the HM, they were dead straight. Was I still missing the center and the club made up for it? I don't know, but I suppose the logical assumption is that I was missing the center.

 

I've played 9 holes with my Callaway GI clubs having been adjusted by Redbird (shout out to Johnny Wunder for the podcast highlighting Jay (and Brandon) Turner at Redbird, which let me know about the existence of a local expert), and so far the results look like it's possible my misses are more from the clubs having not been a good fit than from something I was doing wrong. Time will tell. It would explain why I love my Miura SW which shouldn't fit my 30 hcp game.

 

For looks, and increased feedback, I could see myself moving to a blade like GI, so that I have the right tools to improve. With the GI X Hot, I can tell if the strike is thin (never) or fat (usually due to an unnoticed down slope), but I have no way to tell if I hit toward the toe or heel. You gotta know what causes your misses to be able to fix them, right?

 

All I know for sure is that after being fit, I'm not seeing the left/right dispersion I had been. If properly fit blades improve upon that, then I'm in for my next set.

[cliffhanger]

In my case my issue with chipping/pitching was all mechanics. I was driving the club down and chunking everything. I actually got a tip from my kid lol... he is pretty good on and around the greens... your absolutely right in your conclusion, short game was not a priority in practicing... until now. I would disagree on the lack of long game control... i don't get by on a cheat of any sorts

 

Glad to hear things are headed in the right direction for you!

 

For me, the goal is to get better because that's what leads to the game being more rewarding (notice I didn't say fun). I give advice assuming people are trying to get better and my advice only makes sense from that perspective. If I ever get to the point of playing just for the heck of it regardless of score, I think I'd do something else: hiking, cycling, music, socializing...something. When I see good players in their 60s and 70s hanging it up because they know they're on the decline I completely understand it.

 

Props to anyone who actually, legitimately likes golf, haha. I don't know that I do. I'd say I'm addicted to the challenge, but if/when that overwhelms me I'm out.

in my house we are all very competitive, when my kid and I play golf, I have one goal and that’s to beat him. I also know that if I have a blowup hole or two, kiss that chance goodbye. He is playing to around a 4 right now. That goal to beat him keeps me focused plenty and I have had to restructure my practice time as a result. This sport is very addictive... and if a multi year case of the sharp hooks didn’t make me quit, nothing will.

 

Cheers!

[nsxguy]

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

Just to be clear,,,,,,,,,,,, are you suggesting that blades get as close to the "proposed" target on comparable SS mishits as a comparable CB ?

 

That CBs do NOT have an advantage in distance and direction forgiveness ?

 

I mean you haven't expressed an opinion. All you're doing is saying "Show me, show me".

[BiggErn]

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

Just to be clear,,,,,,,,,,,, are you suggesting that blades get as close to the "proposed" target on comparable SS mishits as a comparable CB ?

 

That CBs do NOT have an advantage in distance and direction forgiveness ?

 

I mean you haven't expressed an opinion. All you're doing is saying "Show me, show me".

 

Nothing you show him will appease him. He will make up new laws of physics and everything else. There’s not a playing professional, teaching professional, or physicist that will say that someone will benefit from playing MBs vs CBs if they don’t hit virtually every shot dead solid.

[bub72ck]

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

Just to be clear,,,,,,,,,,,, are you suggesting that blades get as close to the "proposed" target on comparable SS mishits as a comparable CB ?

 

That CBs do NOT have an advantage in distance and direction forgiveness ?

 

I mean you haven't expressed an opinion. All you're doing is saying "Show me, show me".

 

Nothing you show him will appease him. He will make up new laws of physics and everything else. There’s not a playing professional, teaching professional, or physicist that will say that someone will benefit from playing MBs vs CBs if they don’t hit virtually every shot dead solid.

 

This is why I'm not spending a lot of time looking for a specific video. Just go to Youtube and watch. A guy hits a MB 7 iron 152,160,173 and an AP1 162,162,160. That's a difference maker to me. The ball may be offline with both clubs, but at least you are pin high and offline and not 10 yards short or long also.

[mwmgolfx]

I got fitted about 10 years ago and it was an interesting fitting session. After about 2 hours of hitting various clubs from different manufacturers we had settled on Miura players CBs. Then i said that I used to when I was young play blades and fully understood that i was much older but just wanted to try the Miura blades to see how they felt. We're on a range with Trackman. The blades were immensely better in every category that we saw by significant amount. And it was very noticeable differences for me on both good shots and weaker ones. So i ended up getting blades, but being somewhat nervous about going to all blades I made the 4-6 as the Miura CBs and the rest 7-pw as Miura tournament blades. Sometimes since then I've wished i had made the 4-6 blades but other times, I'm more than happy that i left the longer irons as CBs. I'm now in my mid 70s and am thinking about going all CBs to get the increase in distance back. With illnesses and physical issues I'm much much much shorter now with all clubs than i was even 5 years ago. Long drives are 170+ to max 200 sometimes. Irons are also way shorter with 7 iron about 115. 4 iron/5 iron are 130s at best. So i carry 4 woods and use them a lot.

 

There is no question in my mind that CBs are stronger and allow for more in the way of misses, etc than blades. But so far A) I haven't hit any CBs recently that went further or more accurate than my old Miuras; b) considering that i damaged somehow my oblique muscle and cannot turn right without significant pain, I'm not sure that a CB would help a armsy swing that much. I can't turn. But i can still putt and chip (although that area is a real problem at times due to oblique issues). If i make good contact, CB or MB are both the same. If i swing poorly it doesn't matter what I swing, nothing can help a terrible non-turn swing. Chunk/shank/blade are hard to overcome regardless of the tools.

 

At the time of the fitting ( a pretty comprehensive and exhastive one), Blades were very clearly the best for me - numbers were very clearly better in every category for the blades and it was very decisive difference.

 

But CBs clearly do help on a lot of swings. I've more than a few times in the last few months used a CB low iron instead of a wood, just because the forgiveness of a CB is much better than a raw wood (often 5 or 7 wood). Distance might be a little less but its better to be hitting it consistently 130 than 50 sometimes and 140-150 others. Or even worse, in the water or trees versus down the middle but with less difference. Scoring makes the difference and CBs really do help there.

 

But that's my experience and your mileage may vary.

[dodgyman]

Looking at handicap and a person's ability to do one thing very well (hit irons solid) versus a very poor short game for example. That is what this thread started from. The OP said he was a 15 handicap but all of his shots were lost in his short game. That's impossible IMO. All facets of golf are interrelated whether an individual gives them any credibility or not.

 

Why do we have huge drivers with high MOI vs the old Taylormade Burners of the 80's and 90's? Forgiveness is why. Numerous tests have been done on MBs vs CBs and I have never found one that says "MBs and CBs make no difference". It's quite the opposite. A lot of the tests say dispersion on good shots is very close and dispersion on bad shots weighs heavily in favor of CBs. That's why a lot of guys on tour are using players CBs instead of MBs.

 

I saw a response a minute ago where someone who was new to the game (stated 27 handicap) was considering "turf interaction" when choosing clubs. A 27 handicap can barely break 100 on a consistent basis. It's impossible to determine how any given iron would interact with the ground with any sort of consistency. As much as I love GolfWRX, the information here can drown someone new to the game. You have guys and gals who can't make a single par worrying about shaft flex, launch angle, turf interaction, torque, smash factor, and all the other terms and jargon we talk about here. Get a set of clubs, take some lessons from a PGA professional, and practice. I guarantee that's what all the people on here with a low handicap did.

 

What tests? You said 'a lot of tests'. Can you provide a few links? I'd like to see the ones you're referring to.

 

Just to be clear,,,,,,,,,,,, are you suggesting that blades get as close to the "proposed" target on comparable SS mishits as a comparable CB ?

 

That CBs do NOT have an advantage in distance and direction forgiveness ?

 

I mean you haven't expressed an opinion. All you're doing is saying "Show me, show me".

 

Nothing you show him will appease him. He will make up new laws of physics and everything else. There’s not a playing professional, teaching professional, or physicist that will say that someone will benefit from playing MBs vs CBs if they don’t hit virtually every shot dead solid.

 

This is why I'm not spending a lot of time looking for a specific video. Just go to Youtube and watch. A guy hits a MB 7 iron 152,160,173 and an AP1 162,162,160. That's a difference maker to me. The ball may be offline with both clubs, but at least you are pin high and offline and not 10 yards short or long also.

 

No, you just hit with your 6-iron which has the same loft as that 7. And the advantage is that you don’t have gapping issues between your wedge and PW, which I had with my old callaway XRs. Don’t confuse lofts and distance with accuracy.

[BiggErn]

Use whatever coping mechanism you need.

[tcutshaw1723]

I don't play blades but I do agree that playing with traditional lofts with no cupface, speed slots etc can prevent the flyer ball. I had a set of xr pros for about 6 months and had to get rid of them because I kept getting that occasional flyer ball that killed me. Typically with most courses anything over the green is death and I noticed my scores going up. I switched to mizuno mp 25's and noticed while they weren't nearly as long or forgiving they gave me expected distances when pured. This is definitely an interesting topic though