Jump to content

Finally, we can put the hinge and hold Mickelson crap to bed


Recommended Posts

Those same folks also aren't doing the hinge and hold. Two very different subsets of golfers. The golfers that putt stroke everything are generally just bad with no desire to get better. Same guys will take 3-4 strokes to get out of a shallow bunker.

 

Using the bounce is not a difficult skill to learn and doesn't take a ton of practice to get proficient

 

I personally have never seen a square strike wedge on the course so can't really comment on it's effectiveness (or lack there of)

Link to post
Share on other sites

most people that are bad chippers, whats their #1 issue? CONTACT! they hit it fat or thin. all day. they cant make clean contact. whats the most effective way to clean up contact as a starting point? Get them to hit chips off 1 leg/lead leg. try it. so yes, in that sense it is 100% on lead leg. Gradually, you move to a more balanced set up, but weight is always overwhelmingly on the lead leg for chips. if you are doing it the easy/smart way. pitching is a different animal. but many great HOF wedge players play with weight way forward and keep it there for all wedge shots. it keeps your swing bottom more stable and consistent

 

 

So do you recommend a balanced setup or 100% on the lead leg?

 

You realize 100% means the other foot is essentially not touching the ground?

Srixon Z 785 9.5 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z F85 15 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z U85 18 Steelfiber i110 S
Srixon Z FORGED 3-9 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 46 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 Forged 50 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland RTX4 58 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland Huntington Beach Soft Premier 11S

Bettinardi QB6 DASS High Polish
Srixon ZStar XV Yellow

Link to post
Share on other sites

yes, because you dont putt with your weight on the lead leg....

 

and watching iteach chip off concrete doesnt help the 25 handicapper with zero athletic ability or the old lady who picks up the game at 55. iteach and monte are studs at what they do. as good of teachers as anyone Ive followed. but they are working mostly with younger players and/or players who strive to be excellent players. players that will practice consistently and generally have some skill before they go to see them.

 

there is a reason those square strike wedges sell like hot cakes. its an easier way to get the ball on the green for many many players. go out to a municipal golf course in any town in america and watch the players on a tuesday morning. the vast majority of the player absolutely suck. i mean could not break 125 with 2 pencils. its easy to get a false sense of what the average golfer really is like when you hang out on WRX.

 

So using the bounce is for advanced players yet you want a beginner to stand on one leg to learn how to make good contact?

 

WHAT?

 

When I putt the weight is favored slightly left and I hit about a degree up.

Srixon Z 785 9.5 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z F85 15 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z U85 18 Steelfiber i110 S
Srixon Z FORGED 3-9 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 46 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 Forged 50 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland RTX4 58 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland Huntington Beach Soft Premier 11S

Bettinardi QB6 DASS High Polish
Srixon ZStar XV Yellow

Link to post
Share on other sites

most people that are bad chippers, whats their #1 issue? CONTACT! they hit it fat or thin. all day. they cant make clean contact. whats the most effective way to clean up contact as a starting point? Get them to hit chips off 1 leg/lead leg. try it. so yes, in that sense it is 100% on lead leg. Gradually, you move to a more balanced set up, but weight is always overwhelmingly on the lead leg for chips. if you are doing it the easy/smart way. pitching is a different animal. but many great HOF wedge players play with weight way forward and keep it there for all wedge shots. it keeps your swing bottom more stable and consistent

 

One of the benefit of using the bounce is giving yourself a greater margin for error so that perfect contact isn't necessary.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If a person really struggles with chipping the first thing i do is have them chip with all weight on the lead leg and the trail leg back. Flamingo type position. Improvement is almost universally instant. You cant get to a scratch level chipping like that but u can damn sure eliminate 2-3 chips which are routine for bad players. Gets the ball on the green and rolling to the hole.

 

And using the bounce and having weight forward are not contradictory. I do both. Quite well. Leading edge is governed by the shaft angle / hand position moreso than weight.

 

Phil rodgers advocates balanced weight. I believe utley wants it forward. U can use the bounce correctly with weight all the way forward. I just spent 90 minutes doing that very thing on my practice green.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

most people that are bad chippers, whats their #1 issue? CONTACT! they hit it fat or thin. all day. they cant make clean contact. whats the most effective way to clean up contact as a starting point? Get them to hit chips off 1 leg/lead leg. try it. so yes, in that sense it is 100% on lead leg. Gradually, you move to a more balanced set up, but weight is always overwhelmingly on the lead leg for chips. if you are doing it the easy/smart way. pitching is a different animal. but many great HOF wedge players play with weight way forward and keep it there for all wedge shots. it keeps your swing bottom more stable and consistent

 

One of the benefit of using the bounce is giving yourself a greater margin for error so that perfect contact isn't necessary.

 

Stop, you're making too much sense.

Titleist 915 D2 12*, GD AD BB 6S | Titleist TS2 16.5*, Diamana LTD S+ Blue 80S | Titleist TS2 21*, Atmos HB Tour Spec Blue 8S
Miura CB 801 4-PW, Recoil Proto 110 F4 | Miura 52.06, 56.10, 60.09, Recoil Proto 125 F4
Bettinardi Inovai 6.0 Crescent Neck LH, 34"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bounce is always ur friend. But "using the bounce" creates a mental image that is a bit confusing similar to "hinge and hold". Thats all i was saying.

 

No big deal. Use what gets the ball in the hole. Beautiful game and so many ways to play it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends on the shot. Hinge and hold not for every shot. It can be useful for certain shots, but not all.

TaylorMade Sim Max driver HZRDUS Black Smoke

TaylorMade Sim 3 wood HZRDUS Black Smoke

TaylorMade Sim Udi 2
TaylorMade p760 5-pw
TaylorMade Hi Toe 50/54/58 wedges
TaylorMade Spider X Chalk

Link to post
Share on other sites

personally i think the whole "use the bounce" image is just as bad. that gets people too shallow and will lead to bladed chips all day.

 

I disagree with this 100%. I don't think bladed chips are from being too shallow, they're from a bad setup, or something else you're doing in the motion of the swing that doesn't let you control your low point consistently. "Too shallow" isn't the issue.

 

sure it can. ever played in texas on baked out courses? you have to have a downward angle of attack on chips. and weight on lead leg is to create steepness and get the low point forward. i dont care what the bounce is on your wedge. try using your bounce on concrete and hitting a soft little pitch. thats what it can be like in texas and oklahoma in summertime. i understand the use the bounce imagery and i understand what monte/iteach teaches. watched both their short game videos extensively. its a good method. their method is a derivative of tom pernice/siekmann which is the amazing for creating a soft landing and toss trajectory. i like it a lot for pitching. i think their are simpler ways to teach chipping, personally. i think a simple putting stroke, driver by the chest and shoulers, with weight 100% on the lead leg is the easiest way to accurately chip the ball in all conditions.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you, but you're flat out wrong. I've seen Monte hit chips in person off a cart path with a wedge with some bounce on it. Dan Carraher does the same thing to demonstrate his method. You don't blade it from being too shallow, you blade it by stalling the trail arm and having the leading edge of the club come up into the ball. Mickelson even says that in the H&H videos.

 

Use whatever method works for you, but stop making blanket statements about what causes certain faults/flaws when it's been demonstrated to be false by multiple respected instructors and players.

 

You can blade it easily from being too shallow plenty that blade it are actually ascending through impact. The leading edge coming up is the club actually hitting up on it, which is too shallow.

 

 

I think you guys are using the term shallow to mean different things

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

personally i think the whole "use the bounce" image is just as bad. that gets people too shallow and will lead to bladed chips all day.

 

I disagree with this 100%. I don't think bladed chips are from being too shallow, they're from a bad setup, or something else you're doing in the motion of the swing that doesn't let you control your low point consistently. "Too shallow" isn't the issue.

 

sure it can. ever played in texas on baked out courses? you have to have a downward angle of attack on chips. and weight on lead leg is to create steepness and get the low point forward. i dont care what the bounce is on your wedge. try using your bounce on concrete and hitting a soft little pitch. thats what it can be like in texas and oklahoma in summertime. i understand the use the bounce imagery and i understand what monte/iteach teaches. watched both their short game videos extensively. its a good method. their method is a derivative of tom pernice/siekmann which is the amazing for creating a soft landing and toss trajectory. i like it a lot for pitching. i think their are simpler ways to teach chipping, personally. i think a simple putting stroke, driver by the chest and shoulers, with weight 100% on the lead leg is the easiest way to accurately chip the ball in all conditions.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you, but you're flat out wrong. I've seen Monte hit chips in person off a cart path with a wedge with some bounce on it. Dan Carraher does the same thing to demonstrate his method. You don't blade it from being too shallow, you blade it by stalling the trail arm and having the leading edge of the club come up into the ball. Mickelson even says that in the H&H videos.

 

Use whatever method works for you, but stop making blanket statements about what causes certain faults/flaws when it's been demonstrated to be false by multiple respected instructors and players.

 

You can blade it easily from being too shallow plenty that blade it are actually ascending through impact. The leading edge coming up is the club actually hitting up on it, which is too shallow.

 

 

I think you guys are using the term shallow to mean different things

 

Thanks Dan. It seems he and I are talking about different things. In my personal experience, I don't recall blading a pitch after switching to Monte's use the bounce method. My miss is heavy.

Titleist 915 D2 12*, GD AD BB 6S | Titleist TS2 16.5*, Diamana LTD S+ Blue 80S | Titleist TS2 21*, Atmos HB Tour Spec Blue 8S
Miura CB 801 4-PW, Recoil Proto 110 F4 | Miura 52.06, 56.10, 60.09, Recoil Proto 125 F4
Bettinardi Inovai 6.0 Crescent Neck LH, 34"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Currently struggling with chipping so I'll be following this thread. Nothing worse than blading it over the green three times and just picking up your ball.

 

Give this a try.

 

Whatever method you use, whether it's a "putting" type stroke or whether you hinge slightly, or whether you "use the bounce" (whatever that means),,,,,,,,,,,,, with the ball slightly behind the center of your stance and your weight mostly to your front side, once you complete your "backswing", do not let the club head "make up any ground" in catching up to the hands through contact.

 

You might also want to "rock the shoulders", as it what most(?) putting gurus suggest, and keep you arms out of it.

 

Hope this helps.

  • Like 1

Callaway Epic Flash SZ 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0

Adams A12 Idea Pro hybrid, 16*, Aldila 85 VS Proto Stiff

Ping G400 hybrid, 19*, 70 gr Stock Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 56, 60 DGS300

Tour Edge Wingman (Today)

Experimenting with Prov1x, TM TP5x, Tour B X, Chrome Soft

Link to post
Share on other sites
elthrill said:
yes, because you dont putt with your weight on the lead leg....

 

 

 

and watching iteach chip off concrete doesnt help the 25 handicapper with zero athletic ability or the old lady who picks up the game at 55. iteach and monte are studs at what they do. as good of teachers as anyone Ive followed. but they are working mostly with younger players and/or players who strive to be excellent players. players that will practice consistently and generally have some skill before they go to see them.

 

 

 

there is a reason those square strike wedges sell like hot cakes. its an easier way to get the ball on the green for many many players. go out to a municipal golf course in any town in america and watch the players on a tuesday morning. the vast majority of the player absolutely suck. i mean could not break 125 with 2 pencils. its easy to get a false sense of what the average golfer really is like when you hang out on WRX.

If you keep referring to a a 55 year old woman as "the old lady",  "balls rocketing across the green" may take on a whole new meaning for you. :)

[color=#0000ff]Callaway XR16 driver[/color], 9 degrees, Diamana S+ shaft
[color=#0000ff] Callaway Epic 3 Wood [/color], Fubuki Z65 shaft
[color=#0000ff] Mizuno ST180 5 wood, [/color] Tensei CK Blue shaft
[color=#0000ff]Cobra F8 22* hybrid
[color=#0000ff]Srixon Z765 [/color]5-PW irons [/color], KBS Tour V shafts

[color=#0000ff]Srixon A wedge 51° bent to 50°
[color=#0000ff]Hogan Equalizer 54* wedge
[color=#0000ff]Mizuno S18 58* wedge
[color=#0000ff]Nike Method Core Drone 2.0 putter
Link to post
Share on other sites

> @nsxguy said:

> naj959 wrote:

>

>

>

> Currently struggling with chipping so I'll be following this thread. Nothing worse than blading it over the green three times and just picking up your ball.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Give this a try.

>

>

>

> Whatever method you use, whether it's a "putting" type stroke or whether you hinge slightly, or whether you "use the bounce" (whatever that means),,,,,,,,,,,,, with the ball slightly behind the center of your stance and your weight mostly to your front side, once you complete your "backswing", do not let the club head "make up any ground" in catching up to the hands through contact.

>

>

>

> You might also want to "rock the shoulders", as it what most(?) putting gurus suggest, and keep you arms out of it.

>

>

>

> Hope this helps.

 

Wow this may have been some of the best advice I've ever gotten on chipping and I have both Monte's and Dan's videos. The key for me was "do not let the club head make up any ground". For whatever reason, that wording just clicked in my brain. I think previously I was trying to accelerate the clubhead into the ball which ruined the geometry and sequence. Now I feel like I rock my shoulders with a slight wrist hinge and keep the relationship between clubehead and hands constant. This makes me rotate through the ball and thump the ground with the bounce hard without thinking about doing either. I guess it's a hinge and turn if you will. I think the chunks and blades are gone for good. Pure Gold! Thank you @nsxguy !

Link to post
Share on other sites

> @elthrill said:

> most people that are bad chippers, whats their #1 issue? CONTACT! they hit it fat or thin. all day. they cant make clean contact. **whats the most effective way to clean up contact as a starting point?** Get them to hit chips off 1 leg/lead leg. try it. so yes, in that sense it is 100% on lead leg. Gradually, you move to a more balanced set up, but weight is always overwhelmingly on the lead leg for chips. if you are doing it the easy/smart way. pitching is a different animal. but many great HOF wedge players play with weight way forward and keep it there for all wedge shots. it keeps your swing bottom more stable and consistent

 

Give them an 8 iron

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

> @naj959 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > naj959 wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Currently struggling with chipping so I'll be following this thread. Nothing worse than blading it over the green three times and just picking up your ball.

> >

> >

> > Give this a try.

 

> >

> > Whatever method you use, whether it's a "putting" type stroke or whether you hinge slightly, or whether you "use the bounce" (whatever that means),,,,,,,,,,,,, with the ball slightly behind the center of your stance and your weight mostly to your front side, once you complete your "backswing", do not let the club head "make up any ground" in catching up to the hands through contact.

> >

> >

> > You might also want to "rock the shoulders", as it what most(?) putting gurus suggest, and keep you arms out of it.

> >

> > Hope this helps.

>

> Wow this may have been some of the best advice I've ever gotten on chipping and I have both Monte's and Dan's videos. The key for me was "do not let the club head make up any ground". For whatever reason, that wording just clicked in my brain. I think previously I was trying to accelerate the clubhead into the ball which ruined the geometry and sequence. Now I feel like I rock my shoulders with a slight wrist hinge and keep the relationship between clubehead and hands constant. This makes me rotate through the ball and thump the ground with the bounce hard without thinking about doing either. I guess it's a hinge and turn if you will. I think the chunks and blades are gone for good. Pure Gold! Thank you @nsxguy !

 

Glad this helps you. I started it about 3(?) years ago and it's made me a much better chipper of the ball.

 

I see some high handicappers, often older guys, that "flip" all the time,,,,,,, on most every shot,,,,,,, and wonder why they can't get better or at least more consistent. People hate to have suggestions made to them (so I usually don't) but sometimes I can't help it. Then again, some of them just don't care to take the time to learn something new.

 

Oh well.

  • Like 1

Callaway Epic Flash SZ 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0

Adams A12 Idea Pro hybrid, 16*, Aldila 85 VS Proto Stiff

Ping G400 hybrid, 19*, 70 gr Stock Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 56, 60 DGS300

Tour Edge Wingman (Today)

Experimenting with Prov1x, TM TP5x, Tour B X, Chrome Soft

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...