What up with Jordan?

[3jacker]

I think a lot of them need to do that.

[gvogel]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> You’re not understanding the root of the problem. Spieth’s mental fragility is causing all his technical problems and Rory’s growth in this mental area is empowering his technical. They are on polar opposites of this same spectrum. And don’t forget Putting is the least important aspect of scoring when compared to Tee to Green.

>

> Spieth is very analytical, to a fault and his own detriment actually. McCormick knows this only too well about Spieth and is trying to speak to him in Jordan’s current language and model of the world… but Jordan’s so far down the analytical rabbit hole McCormick’s words are seemingly unable to reach or rescue Jordan. Time will tell on the extent of this, but also time is running out. There becomes a point of no return with the same mindset that got Jordan into this mess. One can only overcome a problem with the thought and mindset that’s evolved beyond his current thinking.

>

> > @bladehunter said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" I don’t disagree as a whole. I do think McCormick May be over doing the info thing. But I don’t think he’s being dishonest. I think he believes he’s close on some parts. But I’m not sure Rory is the best example. He’s not exactly a model of putting prowess every round yet.

> >

> > Go back to playing golf and the course and forget all the voices and tips. No video. No nothing. Ball flight and feel.

>

 

That is quite a psychological explanation for the current state of Jordan's game. But I prefer to think that it comes back to a lack of talent in hitting the tee ball.

[3jacker]

Well.. he's never been a great driver of the ball. Then again, neither was TW.

His game relies on superhuman putting. All of the players games do, to some extent, but it's critical for him to putt crazy good for him to play like he did a couple yrs ago.

[Shilgy]

> @Socrates said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > 2 birdies on 17-18 to claw back to a halve. Not exactly a choke job today. Plenty left to do but good grief I’ll say again.

> > >

> > > You can gauge this kids talent and aptitude by the amount of hate he generates and threads like this. Only tiger generates more.

> >

> > It appears Spieth shot even or one over. Still a ways to go. Nice halve.

>

> Do believe that they no longer use the term "halved." They have dumbed it down to tied.

 

Apparently "they" did not get the memo.

 

http://www.pgatour.com/leaderboard.html

 

[North Texas]

> @disco111 said:

> JS needs to go play a practice round and have his caddie (who knows his game), just hand him a club, no discussions, just go and hit the club that's he's been given. Totally eliminate any forethought about the shot, just step up and hit it. Could be an epiphany in the making.

 

I like the idea behind this. However, instead of the caddie just handing him a club, I think I would rather see Jordan make the decision on what club to hit without discussion. And do it in 10-15 seconds tops, take 1 practice swing, and then step up and hit it. And be very decisive with every step.

 

[Shilgy]

^^ I think the different mentality of match play is helping his mental process. It's not post a score play, it's win the match play. A bogey is ok if they opponent is on the way to a double. And you can putt more aggressively if the opponent is close and you need to make to tie.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @"North Texas" said:

I would rather see [insert random golfer's name] make the decision on what club to hit without discussion. **And do it in 10-15 seconds tops, take 1 practice swing, and then step up and hit it.**

>

Please forward your message to all golfers everywhere.

 

[Cool Runnings]

Sure, but his “talent” was there not too long ago and players like Spieth at his age, with his work ethic, and his health, “talent” doesn’t just suddenly vanish into thin air. So the real questions are ‘what’ has suppressed his talent, and the answer lies in that 6 inch fairway between his ears. Then the challenge becomes identifying the ‘why’ did it happen and then it moves to ‘how’ does his team/coach reach him and free him from the jail of his mind.

 

> @gvogel said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > You’re not understanding the root of the problem. Spieth’s mental fragility is causing all his technical problems and Rory’s growth in this mental area is empowering his technical. They are on polar opposites of this same spectrum. And don’t forget Putting is the least important aspect of scoring when compared to Tee to Green.

> >

> > Spieth is very analytical, to a fault and his own detriment actually. McCormick knows this only too well about Spieth and is trying to speak to him in Jordan’s current language and model of the world… but Jordan’s so far down the analytical rabbit hole McCormick’s words are seemingly unable to reach or rescue Jordan. Time will tell on the extent of this, but also time is running out. There becomes a point of no return with the same mindset that got Jordan into this mess. One can only overcome a problem with the thought and mindset that’s evolved beyond his current thinking.

> >

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" I don’t disagree as a whole. I do think McCormick May be over doing the info thing. But I don’t think he’s being dishonest. I think he believes he’s close on some parts. But I’m not sure Rory is the best example. He’s not exactly a model of putting prowess every round yet.

> > >

> > > Go back to playing golf and the course and forget all the voices and tips. No video. No nothing. Ball flight and feel.

> >

>

> That is quite a psychological explanation for the current state of Jordan's game. But I prefer to think that it comes back to a lack of talent in hitting the tee ball.

 

 

[Titleist_PT23]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> Sure, but his “talent” was there not too long ago and players like Spieth at his age, with his work ethic, and his health, “talent” doesn’t just suddenly vanish into thin air. So the real questions are ‘what’ has suppressed his talent, and the answer lies in that 6 inch fairway between his ears. Then the challenge becomes identifying the ‘why’ did it happen and then it moves to ‘how’ does his team/coach reach him and free him from the jail of his mind.

>

You're making the assumption that his work ethic and health are the same. Maybe they aren't. Or, that his swing mechanics are worse for some reason not related to his mind (Phil's swing plane was off a few years ago and there was little talk about how he'd become a whack job).

 

I can guarantee you that various measured outputs (sports, business, weather, financial variables, etc) have normal variances that go up and down. And the variances in humans' output are not all/entirely related to what's between the ears.

 

gvogel - we haven another thread on Tiger's match where his inability to beat someone must be based on his psychological makeup. I can't be that he's just not as good as he used to be (i.e. when he was better, his C game could beat others). And yes, Tiger did have an intimidation factor, although it is nearly impossible to separate each of these factors. He beat people with his sub-par game because it was still better than his opponent's game and there was some mental hurdle for his opponent. He didn't just beat people because the other person was scared and Tiger wanted to do so (but Tiger no longer wants to do so).

 

[Titleist_PT23]

Regardless, Spieth must have had some beers with Rory, and should be all set to go. I predict a Masters win all because his mindset changed 2 weeks before the tournament...

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/tiger-falls-spieth-gets-hot-lefty-and-jason-day-get-bounced-and-everything-else-that-happened-on-day-2-of-the-match-play

 

_"Like I mentioned yesterday, I'm just trying to each day feel like I progressed a little more in what I'm working on," said the three-time major winner. "And whatever happens this week as far as win or lose the match, whatever happens next week score-wise, if I continue to do that I'll be in the best position day in and day out to succeed.

 

"So I'm not looking for certainly anything results-wise. It's more just trying to play better golf. And tomorrow, I mean, I could shoot 8-under in my match tomorrow, win the match and make a par on the first hole and I don't advance, if Billy wins and birdies. I've got to win and prepare to have to go back out."_

[Cool Runnings]

You’re making the assumption they’re not the same. From all reports & evidence he’s crippling his hands due to working even harder on his game. So based on this and some given form of common sense, hard work isn’t the issue for Spieth. As for his health, that we don’t know for sure, but again, nothing has been reported and there’s no indication on the range or on-course there’s any whiff of a problem with his health. Also, strategically if there was an issue with his health, putting that information out there would likely already be done as it would alleviate a great deal of pressure that’s building with his declining game.

 

Also, if you listen carefully to what Jordan has spoken about over the past 18 months, he’s admitted himself he’s had mental issues dealing with various on-course, technical and process challenges. Everything is pointing to the reality I’ve highlighted that Jordan’s declining game issues are heavily mental. Again, Jordan himself has been very open and proving evidence to this fact.

 

And your reference to Phil is so off-point as it brings in an old age man pushing 50 with known health and back issues. Not to mention the health, nerves, sight, focus decline that old age usually brings when pushing 50.

 

And Tiger’s C-game that he was once beating players and fields in the previous era with, his game now is far better than his C-game ever was back then. So why isn’t it good enough to not only win today (and lets be honest, he’s not even close to winning), but he’s not even able to contend today?

 

You’re making the assumption they’re not the same. From all reports & evidence he’s crippling his hands due to working even harder on his game. So based on this and some given form of common sense, hard work isn’t the issue for Spieth. As for his health, that we don’t know for sure, but again, nothing has been reported and there’s no indication on the range or on-course there’s any whiff of a problem with his health. Also, strategically if there was an issue with his health, putting that information out there would likely already be done as it would alleviate a great deal of pressure that’s building with his declining game.

 

Also, if you listen carefully to what Jordan has spoken about over the past 18 months, he’s admitted himself he’s had mental issues dealing with various on-course, technical and process challenges. Everything is pointing to the reality I’ve highlighted that Jordan’s declining game issues are heavily mental. Again, Jordan himself has been very open and proving evidence to this fact.

 

And your reference to Phil is so off-point as it brings in an old age man pushing 50 with known health and back issues. Not to mention the health, nerves, sight, focus decline that old age usually brings when pushing 50.

 

And Tiger’s C-game that he was once beating players and fields in the previous era with, his game now is far better than his C-game ever was back then. So why isn’t it good enough to not only win today (and lets be honest, he’s not even close to winning), but he’s not even able to contend today?

 

Today the game, athletes, knowledge, training, professionalisation from grass roots to pro tours (like in life) have all evolved greatly. Even Tiger admits that… so not sure why people are pushing back so hard on this life/sport reality. Well, I do actually.

 

> @agolf1 said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > Sure, but his “talent” was there not too long ago and players like Spieth at his age, with his work ethic, and his health, “talent” doesn’t just suddenly vanish into thin air. So the real questions are ‘what’ has suppressed his talent, and the answer lies in that 6 inch fairway between his ears. Then the challenge becomes identifying the ‘why’ did it happen and then it moves to ‘how’ does his team/coach reach him and free him from the jail of his mind.

> >

> You're making the assumption that his work ethic and health are the same. Maybe they aren't. Or, that his swing mechanics are worse for some reason not related to his mind (Phil's swing plane was off a few years ago and there was little talk about how he'd become a whack job).

>

> I can guarantee you that various measured outputs (sports, business, weather, financial variables, etc) have normal variances that go up and down. And the variances in humans' output are not all/entirely related to what's between the ears.

>

> gvogel - we haven another thread on Tiger's match where his inability to beat someone must be based on his psychological makeup. I can't be that he's just not as good as he used to be (i.e. when he was better, his C game could beat others). And yes, Tiger did have an intimidation factor, although it is nearly impossible to separate each of these factors. He beat people with his sub-par game because it was still better than his opponent's game and there was some mental hurdle for his opponent. He didn't just beat people because the other person was scared and Tiger wanted to do so (but Tiger no longer wants to do so).

>

 

[gioguy21]

easy @"Cool Runnings" ---'not even close to winning' and 'not able to contend' are not only obtuse but been proven wrong by him winning the tour championship last year. you can hate all you want but, do it with realistic observation please.

 

he doesn't have an intimidation factor he once had -- that's what he is lacking with his C game. guys in the past just assumed, despite having his C game that he wouldn't collapse -- so they would instead.

 

...now back to your regular scheduled thesis posts.

[3jacker]

Either that, or the players he's up against currently are just better.

[gioguy21]

> @3jacker said:

> Either that, or the players he's up against currently are just better.

 

regardless of era, they're always the best in the world...correct?

 

based on that, he was always going up against the best in the world -- my argument was that his C game isn't as good without intimidation - they're not all magically better than they were 5 years ago, they've always been the best in the world...

 

if anything, the parity across the top players in the world is the exciting thing -- anyone at any point can win.

[Cool Runnings]

No, those comments are talking about Tiger this year. The results prove what I’m highlighting. And as a life long Tiger fan (albeit a down-the-line honest one) there’s zero “hate” in my posts. Fyi citing “hate” in the face of sound reason and evidence is usually the battle-cry of someone void of these factors and on a losing end of a discussion). I’m simply being brutally honest about a once great player that today far too many people still have so far up on a pedestal that they’re unable to see reality today, let alone entertain or speak about it without rushing to the token “hater” game. Lets be better than this.

 

> @gioguy21 said:

> easy @"Cool Runnings" ---'not even close to winning' and 'not able to contend' are not only obtuse but been proven wrong by him winning the tour championship last year. you can hate all you want but, do it with realistic observation please.

>

> he doesn't have an intimidation factor he once had -- that's what he is lacking with his C game. guys in the past just assumed, despite having his C game that he wouldn't collapse -- so they would instead.

>

> ...now back to your regular scheduled thesis posts.

 

 

[Cool Runnings]

It’s not just parity, but a “parity of excellence” today as Duval and Nobilo have long and often stated. And you’re right, players haven’t “magically” got better, but they have got significantly better today due to all the professionalisation and evolution of the game top to bottom. Again, this isn’t just me stating this reality, it’s shared by the heavy majority of the golfing world today.

 

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @3jacker said:

> > Either that, or the players he's up against currently are just better.

>

> regardless of era, they're always the best in the world...correct?

>

> based on that, he was always going up against the best in the world -- my argument was that his C game isn't as good without intimidation - they're not all magically better than they were 5 years ago, they've always been the best in the world...

>

> if anything, the parity across the top players in the world is the exciting thing -- anyone at any point can win.

 

 

[Titleist_PT23]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> You’re making the assumption they’re not the same. From all reports & evidence he’s crippling his hands due to working even harder on his game. So based on this and some given form of common sense, hard work isn’t the issue for Spieth. As for his health, that we don’t know for sure, but again, nothing has been reported and there’s no indication on the range or on-course there’s any whiff of a problem with his health. Also, strategically if there was an issue with his health, putting that information out there would likely already be done as it would alleviate a great deal of pressure that’s building with his declining game.

>

> Also, if you listen carefully to what Jordan has spoken about over the past 18 months, he’s admitted himself he’s had mental issues dealing with various on-course, technical and process challenges. Everything is pointing to the reality I’ve highlighted that Jordan’s declining game issues are heavily mental. Again, Jordan himself has been very open and proving evidence to this fact.

>

> And your reference to Phil is so off-point as it brings in an old age man pushing 50 with known health and back issues. Not to mention the health, nerves, sight, focus decline that old age usually brings when pushing 50.

>

> And Tiger’s C-game that he was once beating players and fields in the previous era with, his game now is far better than his C-game ever was back then. So why isn’t it good enough to not only win today (and lets be honest, he’s not even close to winning), but he’s not even able to contend today?

>

I'm not making any assumptions about Spieth's work ethic or health, you are. You believe it's all mental and nothing else.

 

Also, never knew Phil had back problems. I guess the same way Kaymer has been injured for the majority of the time since his 2014 victories. Phil said his swing was off-plane in 2014-2015, when he was 44-45. So health issues, age, etc impact Phil at 44-45 but not Tiger at 43? Yeah, Tiger's decline is all mental. Wow.

 

No idea how you conclude Tiger's C game was worse than his game now. He used to win multiple times a year. Last year he won once. I don't even know how we make that comparison. I do know his game is worse today.

 

I bet you made a ton of money betting on Rory because it was so obvious and clear to you but not the rest of the world? Come on, tell us how much.

 

Again, some of the things you say may be right. But people often try to make things more complicated than they are. Why? To appear smart and in many cases justify their existence. Often, they come out of the wood work after the fact too. What would be useful is to predict on record the inflection points in decline and improvement well before they happen. Not just explain (what one believe has happened) afterwards.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

[gioguy21]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> No, those comments are talking about Tiger this year. The results prove what I’m highlighting. And as a life long Tiger fan (albeit a down-the-line honest one) there’s zero “hate” in my posts. Fyi citing “hate” in the face of sound reason and evidence is usually the battle-cry of someone void of these factors and on a losing end of a discussion). I’m simply being brutally honest about a once great player that today far too many people still have so far up on a pedestal that they’re unable to see reality today, let alone entertain or speak about it without rushing to the token “hater” game. Lets be better than this.

>

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > easy @"Cool Runnings" ---'not even close to winning' and 'not able to contend' are not only obtuse but been proven wrong by him winning the tour championship last year. you can hate all you want but, do it with realistic observation please.

> >

> > he doesn't have an intimidation factor he once had -- that's what he is lacking with his C game. guys in the past just assumed, despite having his C game that he wouldn't collapse -- so they would instead.

> >

> > ...now back to your regular scheduled thesis posts.

>

>

 

man you love a soapbox. i ain't arguing with you - facts are facts.

 

hes played in 4 official tournaments...he's went T20, T15, T10 and T30. 3rd in greens in reg and 15th in scoring average. i won't call you a hater anymore - just someone who is misguided. did you expect him to be winning every tourney? i sure didn't...but i d*mn sure believe what he's doing is pretty good considering he's been out for how many years...save your novels, check some stats.

 

here, check for yourself:

https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.08793.tiger-woods.html

[Cool Runnings]

No, I’ve clearly stated Jordan’s mental issues have now “bled” into his technical game. Small distinctions, but absolutely vital. And I repeat, all the evidence out of Spieth’s OWN mouth, supported by the numerous video evidence of him playing without the slightest whiff of it being anything to do with his health or work ethic… is why I confidently state (as Jordan has himself spoken about), his biggest issue is between the ears.

 

> @agolf1 said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > You’re making the assumption they’re not the same. From all reports & evidence he’s crippling his hands due to working even harder on his game. So based on this and some given form of common sense, hard work isn’t the issue for Spieth. As for his health, that we don’t know for sure, but again, nothing has been reported and there’s no indication on the range or on-course there’s any whiff of a problem with his health. Also, strategically if there was an issue with his health, putting that information out there would likely already be done as it would alleviate a great deal of pressure that’s building with his declining game.

> >

> > Also, if you listen carefully to what Jordan has spoken about over the past 18 months, he’s admitted himself he’s had mental issues dealing with various on-course, technical and process challenges. Everything is pointing to the reality I’ve highlighted that Jordan’s declining game issues are heavily mental. Again, Jordan himself has been very open and proving evidence to this fact.

> >

> > And your reference to Phil is so off-point as it brings in an old age man pushing 50 with known health and back issues. Not to mention the health, nerves, sight, focus decline that old age usually brings when pushing 50.

> >

> > And Tiger’s C-game that he was once beating players and fields in the previous era with, his game now is far better than his C-game ever was back then. So why isn’t it good enough to not only win today (and lets be honest, he’s not even close to winning), but he’s not even able to contend today?

> >

> I'm not making any assumptions about Spieth's work ethic or health, you are. You believe it's all mental and nothing else.

>

> Also, never knew Phil had back problems. I guess the same way Kaymer has been injured for the majority of the time since his 2014 victories. Phil said his swing was off-plane in 2014-2015, when he was 44-45. So health issues, age, etc impact Phil at 44-45 but not Tiger at 43? Yeah, Tiger's decline is all mental. Wow.

>

> No idea how you conclude Tiger's C game was worse than his game now. He used to win multiple times a year. Last year he won once. I don't even know how we make that comparison. I do know his game is worse today.

>

> I bet you made a ton of money betting on Rory because it was so obvious and clear to you but not the rest of the world? Come on, tell us how much.

>

> Again, some of the things you say may be right. But people often try to make things more complicated than they are. Why? To appear smart and in many cases justify their existence. Often, they come out of the wood work after the fact too. What would be useful is to predict on record the inflection points in decline and improvement well before they happen. Not just explain (what one believe has happened) afterwards.

>

> Good luck!

>

>

>

 

 

[North Texas]

In general, I agree with Cool Runnings that Jordan's biggest problem right now is mental.

 

But I also remember hearing Frank Nobilo (I think it was him) saying that hardly anyone was aware that he had indeed hurt his ankle surfing down in Australia while playing down there last year.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

>

How about Phil's injured back? Interesting you can never answer some questions that are posed to you.

 

Spieth also claimed his putting woes were all physical. He fixed that and now he appears to be putting better. But but it was all tied to the mental. I know.

 

[Cool Runnings]

I have no “soap box” but I do have plenty of reasonable, rational insights and points supported by plenty of evidence. And I too think his process back from his surgery to playing at the level he was so quickly last year was also a big achievement. But that ‘Get out Jail Free’ card has run its course now. New year, new expectations and this years “T20, T15, T10 and T30” is ok for most top-end tour pros… but he’s one of the best players ever and so I do expect far better than this from Tiger. Remember, he use to beat fields & players with his “C-game” and even win a major on a “broken leg”. Of course I don’t expect him to be winning “every tourney” (why would you state such an extreme impossibility?), but I do expect him to be challenging to win far more often than he is. Is this really expecting too much given his apparent skill level and renewed health. Talking about reasonable expectations, I also expect him to not be so fearful of hitting his driver in key pressure moments when his competitors do and get rewarded because of their confidence & bravery. I also expect Tiger to be holing more 4ft & 5ft putts under pressure than he is.

 

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > No, those comments are talking about Tiger this year. The results prove what I’m highlighting. And as a life long Tiger fan (albeit a down-the-line honest one) there’s zero “hate” in my posts. Fyi citing “hate” in the face of sound reason and evidence is usually the battle-cry of someone void of these factors and on a losing end of a discussion). I’m simply being brutally honest about a once great player that today far too many people still have so far up on a pedestal that they’re unable to see reality today, let alone entertain or speak about it without rushing to the token “hater” game. Lets be better than this.

> >

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > easy @"Cool Runnings" ---'not even close to winning' and 'not able to contend' are not only obtuse but been proven wrong by him winning the tour championship last year. you can hate all you want but, do it with realistic observation please.

> > >

> > > he doesn't have an intimidation factor he once had -- that's what he is lacking with his C game. guys in the past just assumed, despite having his C game that he wouldn't collapse -- so they would instead.

> > >

> > > ...now back to your regular scheduled thesis posts.

> >

> >

>

> man you love a soapbox. i ain't arguing with you - facts are facts.

>

> hes played in 4 official tournaments...he's went T20, T15, T10 and T30. 3rd in greens in reg and 15th in scoring average. i won't call you a hater anymore - just someone who is misguided. did you expect him to be winning every tourney? i sure didn't...but i d*mn sure believe what he's doing is pretty good considering he's been out for how many years...save your novels, check some stats.

>

> here, check for yourself:

> https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.08793.tiger-woods.html

 

 

[Cool Runnings]

I’m happy to answer any key questions you propose… and that was meant to read body not back issues for Phil, i.e. his arthritis, hernia issues etc…

 

As for your Tiger’s C-game question, I know this because the stats say today he’s actually playing quite well, and being a long time Tiger fan I’ve watched him win in the previous era playing with his C-game back then, but today he’s playing far better golf now than his C-game level was back then.

 

As for your Rory/Money comment… I don’t bet. At all. But I do think he’s the best player on tour today.

 

Lastly, believe Jordan when he’s regularly talked about struggling with various mental issues - and it isn’t his ankle or anything else. When your mental bleeds into your technical, which it has for Spieth, then to most people it’s hard to decipher where the biggest issue is. But for Jordan it’s what he talks about being his biggest issue, the 6 inch fairway between his ears. Fix that and your technical will improve as a by-product (providing Jordan’s health and work ethic are there). It’s not too complicated.

 

> @agolf1 said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> >

> How about Phil's injured back? Interesting you can never answer some questions that are posed to you.

>

> Spieth also claimed his putting woes were all physical. He fixed that and now he appears to be putting better. But but it was all tied to the mental. I know.

>

 

 

[Titleist_PT23]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> and that was meant to read body not back issues for Phil, i.e. his arthritis, hernia issues etc…

>

Got it. Psychologically, your brain wasn't connected to your mouth or fingers/keyboard.

 

But it impacts Phil, not Tiger at a less than 1 year age difference.

 

[Cool Runnings]

agolf1:

“Got it. Psychologically, your brain wasn't connected to your mouth or fingers/keyboard.”

 

You seem a little agitated and defensive. For your reference while thinking about Tiger’s back injuries I was writing about Phil’s body injuries. A typo, I’m human.

 

agolf1:

“But it impacts Phil, not Tiger at a less than 1 year age difference.”

 

You were mentioning Phil and his health issues in relation to Spieth’s known mental issues. Phil hasn’t talked repeatedly like Spieth has about any mental issues, but Spieth has, and often. And Phil’s health issues, hernia ops, arthritis have been well known and spoken about where as you’ve claimed the reverse-assumption about Spieth’s health & work ethic “that maybe they’re not” the same when neither of these areas have been spoken about at all. And Tiger is 43, Phil is almost 49. Those 5.5 years difference at that age is huge. Phil like Tiger has also had mental doubts about if they would ever win again. Despite both Phil & Tiger feeling physically better than they have in many years, both have struggled to win and really contend like they use to.

 

> @agolf1 said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > and that was meant to read body not back issues for Phil, i.e. his arthritis, hernia issues etc…

> >

> Got it. Psychologically, your brain wasn't connected to your mouth or fingers/keyboard.

>

> But it impacts Phil, not Tiger at a less than 1 year age difference.

>

 

 

[Cool Runnings]

Jordan Spieth just missed another really short putt, this time from 2.7ft. And these issues through his whole game aren’t one-offs. If people can’t see Jordan’s issues are rooted in his head, then perhaps people just don’t want to see or are unable to.

[Cool Runnings]

Jordan with yet another very short putt missed under pressure.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> agolf1:

> “Got it. Psychologically, your brain wasn't connected to your mouth or fingers/keyboard.”

>

> You seem a little agitated and defensive. For your reference while thinking about Tiger’s back injuries I was writing about Phil’s body injuries. A typo, I’m human.

>

> agolf1:

> “But it impacts Phil, not Tiger at a less than 1 year age difference.”

>

> You were mentioning Phil and his health issues in relation to Spieth’s known mental issues. Phil hasn’t talked repeatedly like Spieth has about any mental issues, but Spieth has, and often. And Phil’s health issues, hernia ops, arthritis have been well known and spoken about where as you’ve claimed the reverse-assumption about Spieth’s health & work ethic “that maybe they’re not” the same when neither of these areas have been spoken about at all. And Tiger is 43, Phil is almost 49. Those 5.5 years difference at that age is huge. Phil like Tiger has also had mental doubts about if they would ever win again. Despite both Phil & Tiger feeling physically better than they have in many years, both have struggled to win and really contend like they use to.

>

I'm not agitated or defensive. It would just be nice if you could get your facts straight. You have complicated answers but details are wrong.

 

I'm not talking about 49 year old Phil. Go back and look at the posts (details again). I said at 44-45 Phil had mechanical issues that did not appear to be related to mental issues. This caused his play to decline, and he subsequently fixed it. Then you said Phil's problems were all age and health related (at 44-45). Then you claimed Tiger's current decline is all mental, and I asked why age and known injuries can be a cause of problems for Phil at 44-45 but these same issues cannot be a cause of problem for Tiger at 43.

 

Anyways, Jordan said he had a mental issue so now you "know" he has mental issues. Genius!!!!!!

 

[Cool Runnings]

No, my facts are straight. I never claimed what you said about Phil. Again, “details” my friend. You’ve brought Phil into this discussion as an attempt to explain away or correlate somehow to Spieth. I happily entertained you bringing Phil in and explained Phil’s known issues surrounding his body/health. But again, Spieth’s mental issues are well known as Spieth has regularly touched on this area numerous times. Phil to this point has never talked about any mental issues, but Phil has talked about wanting to change elements of his swing (that I think you’re referring to) in order to be more competitive, but Phil also went on to say that he needed to physically get in better shape in order to make those changes. Which Phil did quoting he felt as good as he’s ever felt under going this new training program.

 

Tiger himself has said numerous times after his successful operation and successful rehabilitation back to competitive fitness, that he’s feeling better physically than he has in a long long time. With this new lease of health on his side, and after having won events previously with a body and level of fitness at a fraction of what it is today, plus doing so when making previous big swing changes to boot, Tiger’s on-course issues were/are more mental than physical.

 

And again, lets talk about these “details” more. I’ve never claimed it’s “all mental” for Tiger. But I have correctly said and identified a lot of his issues have been mental. For example Tiger stripping it on the range, and 5 mins later under tournament pressure he struggles to find a fairway. While technically his swing & tempo on the range can be observably different, the root of this isn’t physical, it’s rooted in the mental side. i.e. feeling comfortable under pressure to allow your body to do what you’ve been practicing so you can do it with or without pressure. Like Jack identified, he also said Tiger would have to re-learn mentally how to win again, and this is absolutely part of the mental challenges than Tiger has been trying to deal with.

 

And as to your last comment, I’ve been simply pointing out the obvious to those ‘non-geniuses’ who’ve refused to believe or understand that Spieth’s core issues are rooted in the mental side.

 

> @agolf1 said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > agolf1:

> > “Got it. Psychologically, your brain wasn't connected to your mouth or fingers/keyboard.”

> >

> > You seem a little agitated and defensive. For your reference while thinking about Tiger’s back injuries I was writing about Phil’s body injuries. A typo, I’m human.

> >

> > agolf1:

> > “But it impacts Phil, not Tiger at a less than 1 year age difference.”

> >

> > You were mentioning Phil and his health issues in relation to Spieth’s known mental issues. Phil hasn’t talked repeatedly like Spieth has about any mental issues, but Spieth has, and often. And Phil’s health issues, hernia ops, arthritis have been well known and spoken about where as you’ve claimed the reverse-assumption about Spieth’s health & work ethic “that maybe they’re not” the same when neither of these areas have been spoken about at all. And Tiger is 43, Phil is almost 49. Those 5.5 years difference at that age is huge. Phil like Tiger has also had mental doubts about if they would ever win again. Despite both Phil & Tiger feeling physically better than they have in many years, both have struggled to win and really contend like they use to.

> >

> I'm not agitated or defensive. It would just be nice if you could get your facts straight. You have complicated answers but details are wrong.

>

> I'm not talking about 49 year old Phil. Go back and look at the posts (details again). I said at 44-45 Phil had mechanical issues that did not appear to be related to mental issues. This caused his play to decline, and he subsequently fixed it. Then you said Phil's problems were all age and health related (at 44-45). Then you claimed Tiger's current decline is all mental, and I asked why age and known injuries can be a cause of problems for Phil at 44-45 but these same issues cannot be a cause of problem for Tiger at 43.

>

> Anyways, Jordan said he had a mental issue so now you "know" he has mental issues. Genius!!!!!!

>

 

[gioguy21]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> I have no “soap box” but I do have plenty of reasonable, rational insights and points supported by plenty of evidence. And I too think his process back from his surgery to playing at the level he was so quickly last year was also a big achievement. But that ‘Get out Jail Free’ card has run its course now. New year, new expectations and this years “T20, T15, T10 and T30” is ok for most top-end tour pros… but he’s one of the best players ever and so I do expect far better than this from Tiger. Remember, he use to beat fields & players with his “C-game” and even win a major on a “broken leg”. Of course I don’t expect him to be winning “every tourney” (why would you state such an extreme impossibility?), but I do expect him to be challenging to win far more often than he is. Is this really expecting too much given his apparent skill level and renewed health. Talking about reasonable expectations, I also expect him to not be so fearful of hitting his driver in key pressure moments when his competitors do and get rewarded because of their confidence & bravery. I also expect Tiger to be holing more 4ft & 5ft putts under pressure than he is.

>

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > No, those comments are talking about Tiger this year. The results prove what I’m highlighting. And as a life long Tiger fan (albeit a down-the-line honest one) there’s zero “hate” in my posts. Fyi citing “hate” in the face of sound reason and evidence is usually the battle-cry of someone void of these factors and on a losing end of a discussion). I’m simply being brutally honest about a once great player that today far too many people still have so far up on a pedestal that they’re unable to see reality today, let alone entertain or speak about it without rushing to the token “hater” game. Lets be better than this.

> > >

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > easy @"Cool Runnings" ---'not even close to winning' and 'not able to contend' are not only obtuse but been proven wrong by him winning the tour championship last year. you can hate all you want but, do it with realistic observation please.

> > > >

> > > > he doesn't have an intimidation factor he once had -- that's what he is lacking with his C game. guys in the past just assumed, despite having his C game that he wouldn't collapse -- so they would instead.

> > > >

> > > > ...now back to your regular scheduled thesis posts.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > man you love a soapbox. i ain't arguing with you - facts are facts.

> >

> > hes played in 4 official tournaments...he's went T20, T15, T10 and T30. 3rd in greens in reg and 15th in scoring average. i won't call you a hater anymore - just someone who is misguided. did you expect him to be winning every tourney? i sure didn't...but i d*mn sure believe what he's doing is pretty good considering he's been out for how many years...save your novels, check some stats.

> >

> > here, check for yourself:

> > https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.08793.tiger-woods.html

>

>

 

Hahaha you're a mess dood. Enjoy writing the novels, i just cant w u. Lol