What up with Jordan?

[disco111]

Just a personal observation, about a generality of the game. I'm fairly sure that most, if not all would agree with the following.................The game starts with the long club (driver) and then reduces club selection proportionately based on distance. If you can't get the ball onto the short grass (fairway) the bulk of the rest of the game suffers exponentially. Granted, there are times when other aspects of your game came render assistance, but those aspects can and will come under stress and not hold up with the needed longevity. So looking at Jordan's fall from success, it does look like his driver is the main culprit. Looking back at past performances, when he was in contention and the back 9 driver on at least 2 or 3 holes, he just flat out hit the driver bad. I really can't fault the club itself, so it has to be the thought process at the time of address. On the shots that come to mind, it looks as though he just tried to hit it harder and just over swung and either pull hooked or left the face open and went deep right. Either direction with that club and his chance for recovery under pressure looking for that win, just escalates the problem and he woefully falls short. My personal opinion for him, would be to leave the driver in the locker and play the 3 wood, find the fairways, hit the greens easier from the fairway and take the pressure off the putter, to be constantly having to bail him out.

 

His last round with 21 putts and shoots a 67 should be a major wake up call. If fairways and greens with 21 putts could have possibly been a new course record or even a PGA lowest round ever..........Just ponder that for a moment..

[Golfjack]

> @disco111 said:

> Just a personal observation, about a generality of the game. I'm fairly sure that most, if not all would agree with the following.................The game starts with the long club (driver) and then reduces club selection proportionately based on distance. If you can't get the ball onto the short grass (fairway) the bulk of the rest of the game suffers exponentially. Granted, there are times when other aspects of your game came render assistance, but those aspects can and will come under stress and not hold up with the needed longevity. So looking at Jordan's fall from success, it does look like his driver is the main culprit. Looking back at past performances, when he was in contention and the back 9 driver on at least 2 or 3 holes, he just flat out hit the driver bad. I really can't fault the club itself, so it has to be the thought process at the time of address. On the shots that come to mind, it looks as though he just tried to hit it harder and just over swung and either pull hooked or left the face open and went deep right. Either direction with that club and his chance for recovery under pressure looking for that win, just escalates the problem and he woefully falls short. My personal opinion for him, would be to leave the driver in the locker and play the 3 wood, find the fairways, hit the greens easier from the fairway and take the pressure off the putter, to be constantly having to bail him out.

>

> His last round with 21 putts and shoots a 67 should be a major wake up call. If fairways and greens with 21 putts could have possibly been a new course record or even a PGA lowest round ever..........Just ponder that for a moment..

 

He won the Open driving it bad too. Remember his slice to the right where he took 42 minutes to drop and hit his next shot? That was way off line. But his swing still worked for his approach shots. Even in 2019 his strokes gained driving and approach were not good. But his putting saved him. Ranked 2nd! I think he'll figure it out. It's really odd since even at 2017 he was still top of the totem pole performance wise. 2018 still OK, but 2019 really fell off the cliff. He's not long enough to do a Stenson, but even Stenson struggles to win consistently giving up the driver. But Stenson also is very good at approach shots. He's got to be one of the elite ball strikers in the current generation.

[disco111]

> @Golfjack said:

> > @disco111 said:

> > Just a personal observation, about a generality of the game. I'm fairly sure that most, if not all would agree with the following.................The game starts with the long club (driver) and then reduces club selection proportionately based on distance. If you can't get the ball onto the short grass (fairway) the bulk of the rest of the game suffers exponentially. Granted, there are times when other aspects of your game came render assistance, but those aspects can and will come under stress and not hold up with the needed longevity. So looking at Jordan's fall from success, it does look like his driver is the main culprit. Looking back at past performances, when he was in contention and the back 9 driver on at least 2 or 3 holes, he just flat out hit the driver bad. I really can't fault the club itself, so it has to be the thought process at the time of address. On the shots that come to mind, it looks as though he just tried to hit it harder and just over swung and either pull hooked or left the face open and went deep right. Either direction with that club and his chance for recovery under pressure looking for that win, just escalates the problem and he woefully falls short. My personal opinion for him, would be to leave the driver in the locker and play the 3 wood, find the fairways, hit the greens easier from the fairway and take the pressure off the putter, to be constantly having to bail him out.

> >

> > His last round with 21 putts and shoots a 67 should be a major wake up call. If fairways and greens with 21 putts could have possibly been a new course record or even a PGA lowest round ever..........Just ponder that for a moment..

>

> He won the Open driving it bad too. Remember his slice to the right where he took 42 minutes to drop and hit his next shot? That was way off line. But his swing still worked for his approach shots. Even in 2019 his strokes gained driving and approach were not good. But his putting saved him. Ranked 2nd! I think he'll figure it out. It's really odd since even at 2017 he was still top of the totem pole performance wise. 2018 still OK, but 2019 really fell off the cliff. He's not long enough to do a Stenson, but even Stenson struggles to win consistently giving up the driver. But Stenson also is very good at approach shots. He's got to be one of the elite ball strikers in the current generation.

 

Granted he won the Open with a bad driver, but you have to take into consideration the course (lack of trees and thick rough) that was being played. He was lucky that on that particular shot, he had a fairway type lie and was able to hit a decent recovery shot. That putt that he drained (like 30+ feet) was unreal, but that is/was he strongest asset, but as we've seen that also been lacking, but is trying to make a come back. He has to rectify getting off the tee and into the fairway before he has any further chance of winning with any regularity. But then again, he could be suffering from PTBDS (post traumatic bad driving syndrome) and may never fully recover.

[BarnbougleDunes03]

I’m a Spieth fan, but I think you’re not far from the truth regarding this PDBDS (post traumatic bad driving syndrome). I think it started with poor a strategic decision to tinker with his swing with the aim to get longer, poor technique was developed and from there a continued mistrust in his poor technique formed over time and has now morphed and settled into a concerning mental problem for him.

Spieth has now fallen to #42 in the world rankings and now risks missing out on future WGCs, who would have ever thought this would be a likely possibility, he hasn’t won in 28 months and looks to be getting worse and ever more unconfident, frustrated and confused.

I feel for the poor fella.

[tsecor]

Nobody here knows what is wrong with Spieth. Maybe its something personal nobody knows about.

[BarnbougleDunes03]

> @tsecor said:

> Nobody here knows what is wrong with Spieth. Maybe its something personal nobody knows about.

 

That’s true but we do know the poor results he’s been getting over a very long period and we can see the poor technique he’s wrestling with, and can also see the confusion and frustration he often shows. Jordan’s troubles can only be a technique or mental issue (or a combination of the two).

[MidwestGolfBum]

> @tsecor said:

> Nobody here knows what is wrong with Spieth. Maybe its something personal nobody knows about.

 

Agreed, we don't know. Maybe he and those around him don't completely know, either. Some of this seems a lot like it's a fair amount of frustration building after not performing the way he is hoping to. As time goes on, I certainly hope to see him back contending again, but understand that there is certainly a process that will have to happen to get there. He seems to be making strides towards the right direction, though.

[BarnbougleDunes03]

> @disco111 said:

> > @Golfjack said:

> > > @disco111 said:

> > > Just a personal observation, about a generality of the game. I'm fairly sure that most, if not all would agree with the following.................The game starts with the long club (driver) and then reduces club selection proportionately based on distance. If you can't get the ball onto the short grass (fairway) the bulk of the rest of the game suffers exponentially. Granted, there are times when other aspects of your game came render assistance, but those aspects can and will come under stress and not hold up with the needed longevity. So looking at Jordan's fall from success, it does look like his driver is the main culprit. Looking back at past performances, when he was in contention and the back 9 driver on at least 2 or 3 holes, he just flat out hit the driver bad. I really can't fault the club itself, so it has to be the thought process at the time of address. On the shots that come to mind, it looks as though he just tried to hit it harder and just over swung and either pull hooked or left the face open and went deep right. Either direction with that club and his chance for recovery under pressure looking for that win, just escalates the problem and he woefully falls short. My personal opinion for him, would be to leave the driver in the locker and play the 3 wood, find the fairways, hit the greens easier from the fairway and take the pressure off the putter, to be constantly having to bail him out.

> > >

> > > His last round with 21 putts and shoots a 67 should be a major wake up call. If fairways and greens with 21 putts could have possibly been a new course record or even a PGA lowest round ever..........Just ponder that for a moment..

> >

> > He won the Open driving it bad too. Remember his slice to the right where he took 42 minutes to drop and hit his next shot? That was way off line. But his swing still worked for his approach shots. Even in 2019 his strokes gained driving and approach were not good. But his putting saved him. Ranked 2nd! I think he'll figure it out. It's really odd since even at 2017 he was still top of the totem pole performance wise. 2018 still OK, but 2019 really fell off the cliff. He's not long enough to do a Stenson, but even Stenson struggles to win consistently giving up the driver. But Stenson also is very good at approach shots. He's got to be one of the elite ball strikers in the current generation.

>

> Granted he won the Open with a bad driver, but you have to take into consideration the course (lack of trees and thick rough) that was being played. He was lucky that on that particular shot, he had a fairway type lie and was able to hit a decent recovery shot. That putt that he drained (like 30+ feet) was unreal, but that is/was he strongest asset, but as we've seen that also been lacking, but is trying to make a come back. He has to rectify getting off the tee and into the fairway before he has any further chance of winning with any regularity. But then again, he could be suffering from PDBDS (post traumatic bad driving syndrome) and may never fully recover.

 

I’m a Spieth fan, but I think you’re not far from the truth regarding this PDBDS (post traumatic bad driving syndrome). I think it started with poor a strategic decision to tinker with his swing with the aim to get longer, poor technique was developed and from there a continued mistrust in his poor technique formed over time and has now morphed and settled into a concerning mental problem for him.

Spieth has now fallen to #42 in the world rankings and now risks missing out on future WGCs, who would have ever thought this would be a likely possibility, he hasn’t won in 28 months and looks to be getting worse and ever more unconfident, frustrated and confused.

I feel for the poor fella.

[BarnbougleDunes03]

> @disco111 said:

> > @Golfjack said:

> > > @disco111 said:

> > > Just a personal observation, about a generality of the game. I'm fairly sure that most, if not all would agree with the following.................The game starts with the long club (driver) and then reduces club selection proportionately based on distance. If you can't get the ball onto the short grass (fairway) the bulk of the rest of the game suffers exponentially. Granted, there are times when other aspects of your game came render assistance, but those aspects can and will come under stress and not hold up with the needed longevity. So looking at Jordan's fall from success, it does look like his driver is the main culprit. Looking back at past performances, when he was in contention and the back 9 driver on at least 2 or 3 holes, he just flat out hit the driver bad. I really can't fault the club itself, so it has to be the thought process at the time of address. On the shots that come to mind, it looks as though he just tried to hit it harder and just over swung and either pull hooked or left the face open and went deep right. Either direction with that club and his chance for recovery under pressure looking for that win, just escalates the problem and he woefully falls short. My personal opinion for him, would be to leave the driver in the locker and play the 3 wood, find the fairways, hit the greens easier from the fairway and take the pressure off the putter, to be constantly having to bail him out.

> > >

> > > His last round with 21 putts and shoots a 67 should be a major wake up call. If fairways and greens with 21 putts could have possibly been a new course record or even a PGA lowest round ever..........Just ponder that for a moment..

> >

> > He won the Open driving it bad too. Remember his slice to the right where he took 42 minutes to drop and hit his next shot? That was way off line. But his swing still worked for his approach shots. Even in 2019 his strokes gained driving and approach were not good. But his putting saved him. Ranked 2nd! I think he'll figure it out. It's really odd since even at 2017 he was still top of the totem pole performance wise. 2018 still OK, but 2019 really fell off the cliff. He's not long enough to do a Stenson, but even Stenson struggles to win consistently giving up the driver. But Stenson also is very good at approach shots. He's got to be one of the elite ball strikers in the current generation.

>

> Granted he won the Open with a bad driver, but you have to take into consideration the course (lack of trees and thick rough) that was being played. He was lucky that on that particular shot, he had a fairway type lie and was able to hit a decent recovery shot. That putt that he drained (like 30+ feet) was unreal, but that is/was he strongest asset, but as we've seen that also been lacking, but is trying to make a come back. He has to rectify getting off the tee and into the fairway before he has any further chance of winning with any regularity. But then again, he could be suffering from PDBDS (post traumatic bad driving syndrome) and may never fully recover.

 

I’m a Spieth fan, but I think you’re not far from the truth regarding this PDBDS (post traumatic bad driving syndrome). I think it started with poor a strategic decision to tinker with his swing with the aim to get longer, poor technique was developed and from there a continued mistrust in his poor technique formed over time and has now morphed and settled into a concerning mental problem for him.

Spieth has now fallen to #42 in the world rankings and now risks missing out on future WGCs, who would have ever thought this would be a likely possibility, he hasn’t won in 28 months and looks to be getting worse and ever more unconfident, frustrated and confused.

I feel for the poor fella.

[bscinstnct]

Hes like 26. I think that the guy can figure out how to hit the fairway again. Be very surprised if he doesn't get back on track.

 

"The music plays, the wheel turns, and his spin ain't over yet"

 

-Sidney Mussberger

[JonnyKrasnodar]

It reminds me a lot of Martin Kaymer to some extent. Went through an incredible purple patch including Majors, decided a swing change was in order and plummeted down the rankings.

 

Now, YJS is still young, still miles better than Kaymer ever was/will be but the fact that his chipping and putting border on yippy some weeks the parallels with Kaymer are pretty stark.

 

I do think though it's only a matter of time before he splits with Greller. That's not me passing judgement in Greller"s talents but it feels inevitable. Fresh eyes might just spark a change somehow.

[doublepar93]

> @JonnyKrasnodar said:

> It reminds me a lot of Martin Kaymer to some extent. Went through an incredible purple patch including Majors, decided a swing change was in order and plummeted down the rankings.

>

> Now, YJS is still young, still miles better than Kaymer ever was/will be but the fact that his chipping and putting border on yippy some weeks the parallels with Kaymer are pretty stark.

>

> I do think though it's only a matter of time before he splits with Greller. That's not me passing judgement in Greller"s talents but it feels inevitable. Fresh eyes might just spark a change somehow.

 

I get the same feeling about a caddie change. Idk why.

[straightshot7]

> @JonnyKrasnodar said:

> It reminds me a lot of Martin Kaymer to some extent. Went through an incredible purple patch including Majors, decided a swing change was in order and plummeted down the rankings.

>

> Now, YJS is still young, still miles better than Kaymer ever was/will be but the fact that his chipping and putting border on yippy some weeks the parallels with Kaymer are pretty stark.

>

> I do think though it's only a matter of time before he splits with Greller. That's not me passing judgement in Greller"s talents but it feels inevitable. Fresh eyes might just spark a change somehow.

 

How about Padraig Harrington as a comp?

 

Both he and Spieth highly highly analytical.

[Jamesng2003]

I agree he overthinks and talks to himself way to much,, go back to golf course and making shots.

[tsecor]

Tiger is super analytical too.....

[straightshot7]

> @tsecor said:

> Tiger is super analytical too.....

 

Tiger's on-course demeanor is EXTREMELY calm compared to Jordan's.

 

Both may be analytical, but Jordan is fast talking, anxious, and fidgety. Tiger has always been quiet, collected, and calm on the course (besides the occasional outburst of anger, then followed by more calmness).

 

I'm not saying one demeanor is even better than the other. But those two guys clearly have two totally different personalities on the course.

 

Also, if you listen to Tiger explain how he plays golf, it's mostly by "feels". I would wager he is far more artistic/right brained than Spieth. Mickelson is highly analytical but he uses it to his advantage. He rarely, if ever doubts himself and doesn't think about golf swing on the course.

 

I actually think Spieth's hyper thinking helps him play very well when he's on and not doubting himself. But it can go the other way when his confidence is low.

[tsecor]

nobody is talking on course demeanor.....just how analytical tiger is........i love Spieth but hate his gyrations and complaining and even his celebrating.....everything seems like theatrics for the camera....i don't remember him being like that before he became a super star

[Krt22]

What happens first...Spieth wins another major or Kaufman gets his card back?

[straightshot7]

> @tsecor said:

> nobody is talking on course demeanor.....just how analytical tiger is........i love Spieth but hate his gyrations and complaining and even his celebrating.....everything seems like theatrics for the camera....i don't remember him being like that before he became a super star

 

You're the one that brought up Tiger. No one was talking about him.

 

I was talking about Spieth. And I think his on course demeanor and the things that he says on the course are the most clear evidence we have for how analytical he is as it pertains to golf. Being excessively analytical and experiencing anxiety are directly related. And the way he vocally analyzes every shot shows how analytical he is.

[johnseg]

I remember all of the YJS vs Cantlay talk on here back in the day. Might be time to bring it back. What happens first JS win or a PC major?

[Krt22]

> @straightshot7 said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > nobody is talking on course demeanor.....just how analytical tiger is........i love Spieth but hate his gyrations and complaining and even his celebrating.....everything seems like theatrics for the camera....i don't remember him being like that before he became a super star

>

> You're the one that brought up Tiger. No one was talking about him.

>

> I was talking about Spieth. And I think his on course demeanor and the things that he says on the course are the most clear evidence we have for how analytical he is as it pertains to golf. Being excessively analytical and experiencing anxiety are directly related. And the way he vocally analyzes every shot shows how analytical he is.

 

Gosh darn it Jordan, why did you hit it there!

 

It's like he has zero control over his ball and doesn't understand quite why

[ebrasmus21]

> @Krt22 said:

> What happens first...Spieth wins another major or Kaufman gets his card back?

 

Although I’m torn here I’ll vote for YJS

[dlygrisse]

I really hope he has a nice season. He makes golf more interesting when he is in contention. The fact that he annoys the daylights out of some people helps keep things interesting. If I had to guess what is "wrong with him" I would say he just doesn't believe in what he is doing with his swing, he doesn't trust it. It always took Tiger about a year to successfully implement a swing change. If this continues to be a problem the next question is whether his teacher led him down the right path. He has a unique action built around a very weak left hand grip, if the parts don't match it aint gonna work.

[Socrates]

Eight months, 45K views and 1523 posts later and all we know is the boy is messed up. He is the PGA version of Lydia Ko. Real natural talent gone bad. I hear CBS has an opening.

[Golfnutgalen]

> @Socrates said:

> Eight months, 45K views and 1523 posts later and all we know is the boy is messed up. He is the PGA version of Lydia Ko. Real natural talent gone bad. I hear CBS has an opening.

 

Lydia Ko seems like a fair comparison 34th in the Rolex rankings vs Jordan's 42nd. What on Earth happened to Yani Tseng??? Won 5 majors by age 22 and then basically fell off the planet.

 

[redfirebird08]

> @straightshot7 said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > Tiger is super analytical too.....

>

> Tiger's on-course demeanor is EXTREMELY calm compared to Jordan's.

>

> Both may be analytical, but Jordan is fast talking, anxious, and fidgety. Tiger has always been quiet, collected, and calm on the course (besides the occasional outburst of anger, then followed by more calmness).

>

> I'm not saying one demeanor is even better than the other. But those two guys clearly have two totally different personalities on the course.

>

> Also, if you listen to Tiger explain how he plays golf, it's mostly by "feels". I would wager he is far more artistic/right brained than Spieth. Mickelson is highly analytical but he uses it to his advantage. He rarely, if ever doubts himself and doesn't think about golf swing on the course.

>

> I actually think Spieth's hyper thinking helps him play very well when he's on and not doubting himself. But it can go the other way when his confidence is low.

 

 

Much of what you say is true, but Tiger has turned into a wind psycho in the last 10-15 years compared to the early part of his career. These guys tend to overthink it sometimes. You look at Koepka right now in the majors. He just hits the ball and goes. No overthinking it.

[tsecor]

when you talk analytical golfers, if Tiger doesn't come to mind, them i don't know what to say......but what two would you think Spieth would say "belong together'? a dog, a rabbit, and a carrot> @straightshot7 said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > nobody is talking on course demeanor.....just how analytical tiger is........i love Spieth but hate his gyrations and complaining and even his celebrating.....everything seems like theatrics for the camera....i don't remember him being like that before he became a super star

>

> You're the one that brought up Tiger. No one was talking about him.

>

> I was talking about Spieth. And I think his on course demeanor and the things that he says on the course are the most clear evidence we have for how analytical he is as it pertains to golf. Being excessively analytical and experiencing anxiety are directly related. And the way he vocally analyzes every shot shows how analytical he is.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @straightshot7 said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > Tiger is super analytical too.....

>

> Tiger's on-course demeanor is EXTREMELY calm compared to Jordan's.

>

> Both may be analytical, but Jordan is fast talking, anxious, and fidgety. Tiger has always been quiet, collected, and calm on the course (besides the occasional outburst of anger, then followed by more calmness).

>

> I'm not saying one demeanor is even better than the other. But those two guys clearly have two totally different personalities on the course.

>

> Also, if you listen to Tiger explain how he plays golf, it's mostly by "feels". I would wager he is far more artistic/right brained than Spieth. Mickelson is highly analytical but he uses it to his advantage. He rarely, if ever doubts himself and doesn't think about golf swing on the course.

>

> I actually think Spieth's hyper thinking helps him play very well when he's on and not doubting himself. But it can go the other way when his confidence is low.

 

You hit the nail on the head.

 

His constant stream of consciousness is both his kryptonite and his secret weapon when he’s on. The trick is channeling it.

[BB28403]

> @BarnbougleDunes03 said:

> I’m a Spieth fan, but I think you’re not far from the truth regarding this PDBDS (post traumatic bad driving syndrome). I think it started with poor a strategic decision to tinker with his swing with the aim to get longer, poor technique was developed and from there a continued mistrust in his poor technique formed over time and has now morphed and settled into a concerning mental problem for him.

> Spieth has now fallen to #42 in the world rankings and now risks missing out on future WGCs, who would have ever thought this would be a likely possibility, he hasn’t won in 28 months and looks to be getting worse and ever more unconfident, frustrated and confused.

> I feel for the poor fella.

 

Remember that is still the 42nd best golfer in the world. There are 2 million golfers below him that are very jealous. I bet the interest on his winnings makes more than most normal people make in a year.

He’s doing alright. Lol

[Socrates]

> @Golfnutgalen said:

> > @Socrates said:

> > Eight months, 45K views and 1523 posts later and all we know is the boy is messed up. He is the PGA version of Lydia Ko. Real natural talent gone bad. I hear CBS has an opening.

>

> Lydia Ko seems like a fair comparison 34th in the Rolex rankings vs Jordan's 42nd. What on Earth happened to Yani Tseng??? Won 5 majors by age 22 and then basically fell off the planet.

>

 

Lack of confidence? Pressure of being #1? Injury? No one really seems to know and I don't think she does either. Happened to Duval too. Reached #1 and then there was nothing left.