What up with Jordan?

[bladehunter]

Agree. And while it wouldn’t be an overnight switch to flip. I don’t buy the idea that’s been passed about here , that he can’t just go back. Baloney. Common sense says that reverting back would be easier than pressing on with a new movement. Not overnight. But certainly possible and in my opinion easier.

[North Texas]

Okay, talking about the flatter swing. Did anyone else see the brief swing comparison Brandel Chamblee did on Friday? On the swing from today, Jordan is steeper on the downswing than before. It was a very noticeable difference. In 2015, he was nice and shallow on the downswing.

[bladehunter]

I didn’t see it.

 

But with an upright move. You don’t at all need to be steep to be upright. Sounds like he’s not only laying the shaft off at the top. But now loosing width coming down. Yea. Steep stuck shut , sounds about right for the results he’s seeing. ?‍♂️

[disco111]

People have stated that he should just go back to his old swing, which worked great. Sadly, at this point in time, i think he's hurt himself too much with trying to gain distance with a new swing. His new muscle memory will not allow him to go back and he's in fact stuck in a no man's land swing wise. The only thing (at least to my way of thinking), is to continue on with what he has now and hopefully finds a new middle ground that will allow him to play some good golf. His day's on winning major's I fear are long gone, but he still could muster up an occasional tour win or two, albeit far apart from each other.

[bladehunter]

I guess I respect that opinion , but I don’t understand it.

 

You think that muscle memory from last 12 months is greater than that from age 12 to 24? I don’t think it would be a light switch fast flip. But I don’t understand why he can’t decide to go back. It’s not a tiger woods scenario where physical limitations prevent it. It’s just a return to form really.

[HitEmTrue]

@DON SVO rotates the club face through the hitting area more. He talked about trying to get more distance and that’s one way to do it, by promoting a draw and adding gear-effect head speed.
Gear effect from higher rate of closure during impact is a fade bias, not draw.

[bladehunter]

I don’t think he’s saying faster rate of closeur. I think he’s saying more face rotation period. As in coming form inside meeting the ball shut and then a low hard left exit.

[FORTYHDCP]

If he misses the cut at Augusta you have to start to wonder.

[HitEmTrue]

That may be what Jordan is doing. But he said gear effect. The gear effect from face closure during impact is not a draw bias.

[bladehunter]

? Am I reading it wrong here ?

https://www.adamyounggolf.com/gear-effect/

[HitEmTrue]

Maybe you are reading it incorrectly?

Clubface opening during impact is draw bias.

Closing during impact is fade bias.

That’s what the article says, even though it is discussing the opening/closing happening as a result of off-center strikes.

[bladehunter]

So if I Hood my driver face and swing in to out , it’s fade biased ?

[HitEmTrue]

No...gear effect has to do with club head rotation during that short period of time while the ball is touching the club.

it is a bias...an influence...club can be OPENING, and draw bias, and also be OPEN to the path, a fade bias, at the same time. Or opening, and closed to path. Or...

[bladehunter]

Assuming dead middle contact . Right ? Otherwise toe and it’s going left and heel is going right

This seems to fly in the face of convention which seems to say that the ball isn’t on the face long enough to be compressed with an iron. How is it on the driver face long enough to be influenced in any meaningful way with driver ?

[HitEmTrue]

I’m not assuming middle contact.

My only point is that a closing club face at impact does not cause gear-effect draw. Assuming center contact, the draw is happening because the face is already closed to the path at contact.

[Shilgy]

When he plays well these days do you believe he thinks a lot about the swing of reacts to the target the way all good players do? If he reacts to the target the current swing is “his swing”. Not the one from ages 12-24. Therefore he cannot just go back to some previous iteration of his swing. He would have to completely relearn essentially a new to him swing.

[bladehunter]

I’d say he’s thinking all swing. Almost no target.

 

I mean he looks lke like he has a 60 second check list in his mind before taking driver back. Like a 20 handicap does.

[Hawkeye77]

There is no muscle memory.

[bladehunter]

Lol. Ok. So not assuming center contact.

 

If I get what you’re trying to say , it’s that gear effect of a closing clubface imparts a minute amount of fade bias for the .830 milliseconds or 257 CT that the ball stays on the face ? Ok. But compare that “ bias” to the actual face angle and path. Is it going to make the ball fade ? No.

 

So i don’t see the point. As in I guess you technically maybe correct in the words “ gear effect “. But the point remains. He’s rotating it through impact and headed left. Except when he’s late and pushes it right. His old swing was square upright and down the line with regards to path , face angle and amount of rotation.

[HitEmTrue]

The other guy said that it was a draw from gear effect, because the face was closing.

That simply isn’t true. That is the point.

[bladehunter]

It is a draw from a closed face to path. Yes ?

 

So the only discrepancy is use of the words “ gear effect “. Right? Unless it’s a toe strike. Then gear effect. Takes it left. Right ? So has to be assuming a center strike.

[Krt22]

word. I think there are two things being discussed, one is face rotation over all through out the swing and the other is pure gear effect. The fact that the face opens when you hit it off the toe is sort of a useless/confusing bit of information, since that in itself doesn’t impact the ball flight.

 

if you have a pure center strike, it’s just face path relationship

[HitEmTrue]

The face opening on a toe strike is exactly what affects the ball flight. The face rotates in one direction, and the ball in the other.

[HitEmTrue]

From the beginning, I’ve said the problem was his misuse of gear effect.

 

But you can’t assume center. Or non center contact.

The club can be open to the path (Fade bias) and strike ( draw bias) on the same shot. Is it going to fade or draw? How much was the face open to the path? How far out on the toe was it struck?

 

[johngalt312]

He caught and is currently battling a mild case of smyliekaufmanitis. A trip to Dr. Gankas should cure him, so long as he heeds G’s professional advice and takes his medicine.

[Krt22]

Improper cause and effect relationship, the face opening at impact is simply an effect of the collision being off center relative to the COM of the club head. Either way, not at all related to face closure rates. Just like moveable weights, many think they alter face closure rates, but how they really work is shifting COM

[HitEmTrue]

[bladehunter]

Which is why I don’t buy it. Or at least haven’t seen anything that makes it make sense. If you hit dead middle of COM it shouldn’t twist. Yes ? So no gear effect. If it hits slightly toe or heel. Then we know what that does. Are we really trying to quantify an extremely minute possibility of gear effect working in opposite if hit dead middle ?

[HitEmTrue]

I’m sorry for hijacking this thread.

Recent discussion in instruction:

[bladehunter]

I wouldn’t apologize for that. Wasn’t anything happening here. Just a Jordan bashing thread.

 

To the topic at hand .... I knew that Dan said that too. And I never did get a explanation as to how it works. We where talking fast Rate of closure not just closure. Which means a guy who comes into the ball wide open and sometime from a split second before impact and a split second after , he goes from wide open to shut. So the ball is on the face during this time. I still haven’t found the conversation where Howard Jones explained this high spin anomaly during that time. I guess it’s lost on the old sever. I don’t know.

 

Ive since rebuilt my driver swing to a degree , to eliminate that factor. So the amount of rotation through the ball for me is much less , Which has changed my taste in shafts , need for less loft and dramatically improved results. I’m sitting at 78% fairways hit since Jan 1.