Lob Wedge for Tight Bermuda

[stk123]

> @Warrick said:

> That hybrid can be a life saver on tight stuff, especially a slight downslope. I have been working on that shot.

 

Downslope is almost always down grain on bermuda, because bermuda grain tends to go whichever way the water flows (i.e. downhill), though setting sun direction might have some minor influence as well. So if you are downhill, then pull out any old wedge and it is the easiest shot in the world. Down grain bermuda the club just glides right on top of the grass until it make contact with the ball. You have 1/8"-1" of leeway to hit behind the ball depending on conditions. No need for hybrid at all.

[stk123]

> @"b.mattay" said:

> Vokey v-grind! Narrow sole with 20 ish degrees of bounce on the front edge for square face shots!

 

I had v-sole TK15 wedges, and now have Edel V-sole wedges. Like I said nothing works when chipping into the grain on bermuda. It will still grab your club. But I guess that the v-sole clubs may be slightly better than most. You just have to play around with different shots to see what works best for you:

 

Square face with leading edge

Square face using bounce

Open face using bounce

back in stance

forward in stance

shallow angle of attack

steep angle

etc.

 

One important note is that when I am practicing these shots I can get into a groove and hit every shot perfectly (because of perfect contact, not fat and not thin), but if you face a little bit of pressure (or even no pressure, but not warmed up or simply because you only chip once every 30 minutes on course) and you will get in trouble without perfect contact.

 

So I recommend when practicing to focus on two things:

1. Which chipping method gives you best chance of perfect contact.

2. Which chipping method gives you best result when hit 1/4"-1/2" behind the ball.

 

Once you have those two shots in your arsenal, you can decide on the course which option is best depending on circumstances. If you are not comfortable with either, then play a bump and run or pull out putter (or hybrid).

[buckrogers71]

Big fan of the M grinds (54 and 58). I took them to Pinehurst and they were aces. I was worried about the lack of bounce and the sand and they were fine.

[ThinkingPlus]

Another shot you can try that works OK (compromise safety shot) although it is less precise is to use a closed face hook chip. Several instructors online show how to do this shot. I typically use my 58 or maybe 54. When you close the face it presents less surface area to catch on the grainy bermuda. The shot puts more right to left sidespin (reverse for you lefties) so that the ball bounces a bit better through the rough. It works if you have room to run a little and is fairly reliable. It isn't the higher lofted pitch we woild like to hit, however.

[cardoustie]

watch the pros nowadays at some locations .. ie Bahamas. They are putting from within 20 feet of the green ALL the time. If its hard for a +7 you know its going to be hard for us mortals

The into the grain shots are nuts, I've chunked chips 1" .. a whiff basically ... and I am a solid chipper

[Simp]

Why not take your trusty K grind and put your own grind on it? It's not rocket surgery.

[2_PuttBirdies]

The new 2019 PM Grind is great off of anything. Been playing for 20 years and it's the best wedge I've ever used.

[BCULAW]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> Another shot you can try that works OK (compromise safety shot) although it is less precise is to use a closed face hook chip. Several instructors online show how to do this shot. I typically use my 58 or maybe 54. When you close the face it presents less surface area to catch on the grainy bermuda. The shot puts more right to left sidespin (reverse for you lefties) so that the ball bounces a bit better through the rough. It works if you have room to run a little and is fairly reliable. It isn't the higher lofted pitch we woild like to hit, however.

 

This is one of my go-to shots. I actually played this as my stock chip for years during my prior residence in Florida because it works so well on the turf here.

[RainShadow]

Enjoying the insights and struggles in this thread.

I moved to Tucson a while back and we have a lot of bermuda here. It's been a struggle to learn new shots off the tight lies around the green and, during the summer, the longer rough that just grabs the club, except when it doesn't, and you get a massive flier...LOL.

I've used my putter from 10+ yards off the green more than anything during the summer months just for forgiveness, sake... especially when short sided.

 

[Ricco43]

> @BCULAW said:

> I'm looking for a versatile lob wedge for the tight (sometimes baked) Bermuda fairways I play here in Central Florida. Before moving to Orlando late last year, I lived on the luch fairways and greenside rough in Central Virginia, where wide soles and bounce were your friend. My once trusty Vokey K grind has turned sour, and I need something that will help my glide over the tight, grabby hardpan Bermuda on my new (and otherwise very lovely) home course.

>

> I've played the L grind previously, and feel like it might be a little too low bounce, but it is an option. Should I also consider the M grind? What other brands and grinds should I consider?

 

> @BCULAW said:

> I'm looking for a versatile lob wedge for the tight (sometimes baked) Bermuda fairways I play here in Central Florida. Before moving to Orlando late last year, I lived on the luch fairways and greenside rough in Central Virginia, where wide soles and bounce were your friend. My once trusty Vokey K grind has turned sour, and I need something that will help my glide over the tight, grabby hardpan Bermuda on my new (and otherwise very lovely) home course.

>

> I've played the L grind previously, and feel like it might be a little too low bounce, but it is an option. Should I also consider the M grind? What other brands and grinds should I consider?

 

 

[Ricco43]

I play a VOKEY Spin Milled 60.04. It works well on very tight turf and shallow/hard bunker surfaces. You have to attack with this swing - deceleration is a no no

[Arlin964]

Ahhhhh, so living in Dallas explains why I’m terrible at green side chipping! Lol

[sdandrea]

The PING Eye 2 LW or Eye 2+ LW are two of the most versatile grinds ever. Ask Lefty!

[third-times-a-charm]

I use a 60 degree Vokey S-Grind in central florida without issue

[uwhockey14]

> @BCULAW said:

> I'm looking for a versatile lob wedge for the tight (sometimes baked) Bermuda fairways I play here in Central Florida. Before moving to Orlando late last year, I lived on the luch fairways and greenside rough in Central Virginia, where wide soles and bounce were your friend. My once trusty Vokey K grind has turned sour, and I need something that will help my glide over the tight, grabby hardpan Bermuda on my new (and otherwise very lovely) home course.

>

> I've played the L grind previously, and feel like it might be a little too low bounce, but it is an option. Should I also consider the M grind? What other brands and grinds should I consider?

 

I would consider a bump and run... don't want to go too low on bounce otherwise your LW becomes useless out of bermuda rough around the greens..... if the lie is too tight for your standard bounce LW, the LW probably isn't the play....

[Joelsim]

Mack Daddy 4 X-Grind will work very nicely.

[Baitkiller]

I am such an odd duck. I live in SW Florida and deal with tight yet soft green side conditions. Pitches and chips are fine but that 30 foot flop over a bunker is trouble. For me, the more bounce the better. I go down after it and let the bounce get me through the mud. My new wedge set, the builder talked me into an 8- 58 instead of the 12 i used to play stating that conventional wisdom says less bounce. Uggghhh. I tried for 10 months not to hate that damn wedge.. Nope, still hate it. Thin City. I couldn't even play it out of a bunker. Just last night I picked up a 13-58* Callaway "Jawz X series" whatever that means and it looks just right. Ill let you know next week how it goes.

[CDLgolf]

We have wet dormant burmuda here in Charlotte. Very thin lies, almost bare. Ive learned to putt when i can, use a 9, pw or gap wedge when ever possible and last resort use a lob wedge. The lob wedge I use is a Ping glide 2.0 60*

[mrbh]

For those looking for low bounce/wider sole earlier in the thread, try the Cobra King lob wedge in the "wide/low" option - 4* of bounce but wider sole. It's worked very well for me and the width means it still works well out of bunkers.

 

[Chuck905]

Some good points, especially paying attention to down grain vs into the grain shots.

 

I utilize the bounce in my SW and LW as much as possible. I’ve learn carrying a SW with medium bounce (10*) and LW with high bounce (14*), I also have my wedges weakened 2* to reduce the offset and added precision.

 

I essentially have two green side wedges for all possibilities, you need them for Orlando.

 

The bump and run is too unpredictable and inconsistency when it comes to the terrain.

[GolfChannel]

> @Chuck905 said:

> Some good points, especially paying attention to down grain vs into the grain shots.

>

> I utilize the bounce in my SW and LW as much as possible. I’ve learn carrying a SW with medium bounce (10*) and LW with high bounce (14*), I also have my wedges weakened 2* to reduce the offset and added precision.

>

> I essentially have two green side wedges for all possibilities, you need them for Orlando.

>

> The bump and run is too unpredictable and inconsistency when it comes to the terrain.

 

He’a not kidding, course knowledge is so important in Central Florida. I am a picker so bounce/grind means little to me, but if I am on a course with tight or bare lies in I just bump and run, chip it, or the majority of the time putt it. If there is some reason I can’t do any of the above I will baby lob it (for example if short sided myself or there are too many humps and bumps from dead bare areas to putt them).

 

[breakfree40]

I like the high bounce lob in this situation. Play ball back of stance and forward press.

[Pepperturbo]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > Alluding to someone not being able to make a certain club work in diverse conditions is NOT a personal assault. IF anything it's stating a helpful factual condition that should change to improve one's game. Besides, nobody can buy a game. And just because Titleist makes all sorts of wedge configurations doesn't automatically mean if you can't hit one you should buy another and another. Titleist is like most other company's, wants to merchandise. Remember, if we have multiple clubs with differing configurations, each requires extensive practice time.

> >

> > Learning how to be an effective ball striker with all the clubs in our bag, regardless of conditions, IS, IMO, the goal ALL golfers should chase. Tour players have different sets of clubs for different conditions, as part of their equipment contract. Example, many tour players have sets designed just for Augusta conditions. Notwithstanding when we go to a course, we never know what we're going to face. I use to play interclub team golf at my last club where we visited all sorts of courses. Those conditions required us to be able to play what's in our bag, wherever.

>

> I generally agree with what you are saying. I do think certain wedge grind/bounce characteristics can help you a bit depending on your technique and the kind of turf you play on. I previously used a low bounce lob wedge but the turf I play on now is very soft so switched to some old club I had lying around with a wide sole/high bounce.

>

> But no matter what clubs we put in the bag there is never anything that works perfectly all of the time, and you are correct that we need to hit shots with whatever we have. The fact is, some shots are extremely difficult regardless of whether you could change the club, and knowing when to just hit it 15 feet past the hole is probably better for most than trying to change your wedges because of a few bad shots on certain conditions.

>

> I have the same issues/questions in the 4 Hybrid/high lofted wood/long iron spot. Given certain specifics of the shot I may prefer one over the other. But they all have their drawbacks too, and I've found that just sticking with one club and knowing how it will react / its limitations seems to be working better than playing musical chairs based on the 1 shot that didn't work out last round.

>

 

I am all about having the correct tools for the job. But like most golfers, I play different course conditions multiple times per week and don't often know what bunkers, fairway's or surrounding green conditions are going to be like. Yesterday, I played a fast challenging course that is normally on the soft side but had tight fairways and tournament sand depth in bunkers, which put a premium on my low bounce wedges. I loved it because I can pick the ball and scrap a divot. However, my buddy has wide sole high bounce irons and wedges so he ran into a few too many thin missed shots as the face bounced off the turf into the ball. He wasn't a happy camper. :neutral: Last week I played a relatively soft, well-conditioned course that had soft sand bunkers, tomorrow I am playing a fast, dry and tight course. Fortunately, being comfortable opening the face on my chosen wedges to create more effective bounce was not a problem. The point is low bounce irons or high bounce, if the golfer isn't skilled with his chosen clubs he'll face problems. Like golf balls, I tell friends to play one so you know how it will behave under all conditions.

[Celebros]

> @mrbh said:

> For those looking for low bounce/wider sole earlier in the thread, try the Cobra King lob wedge in the "wide/low" option - 4* of bounce but wider sole. It's worked very well for me and the width means it still works well out of bunkers.

>

 

I love that grind. I play the both the regular KING 56* (7* bounce) and KING Pur 60* (4* bounce) in the WideLow grind. The LW really reminds me of my old 60* 588 RTG.

[Dan Drake]

This exact shot, the into the grain, tight bermuda lie (often made even tougher by being a little soggy in FL!), is the perfect case study/proof of concept as to why you MUST assess the lie first to see what shots the lie will allow you to play!

 

This, of course, goes for all non-tee shots, but it is so clearly shown by this lie!

 

As a golfer, we have to understand, of our inventory of shots that we can reasonably produce, which ones are usable in a given situation. Just as you wouldn't try to hit a Texas wedge from a nestled-down, gnarly lie in knee deep rough, you have to become skilled at looking at a lie and situation and deciding which shots just won't work. From there you can determine which ones will work and then determine which ones of those you actually can pull off a reasonable percentage of the time and with a reasonable average score! It does no good to use a shot where you get up and down 50% of the time, but you make double the other 50% of the time. Much better to chip, belly, putt, bump a hybrid, or whatever you need to do to allow yourself 10 out of 10 putts at par and then go make a few of them.

 

As others before me have stated, go record and watch the Thursday & Friday rounds of golf during the PGA Tour's Florida swing or when they travel to the Bahamas. The best players in the world, who control low point and shaft lean like we only dream about, are choosing to putt when possible, bump it when necessary, and pitch it only when the situation leaves them no other choice. And, even then, when the pitch shot is the only choice, you can almost see them just commit to the bogey and hit the shot. If they get lucky and whiff it a bit, it flops to 4' and they look like the star they are. But, much more commonly, they hit it to 15' and go try to make a putt.

[ALIF]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> Ideally you would like a low bounce wedge to deal with the firm turf especially hard pan. However, if the bunkers are soft you might also want a wide sole to provide more effective bounce when laid open. That combination is hard to find. I think the wide sole would also help with the gnarly birds nest bermuda around the greens. Other than a full custom I am not sure where to get such a wedge. I am looking for the same if you find one.

 

I use Ping Eye SW bent to 55 deg for bunkers and Cleveland low bounce 60 deg for other short game and wedge stuff. Best of both worlds.

 

 

[Jake0331]

Don’t be a coward, Vokey L Grind.

[BearQ]

> @"Dan Drake" said:

> This exact shot, the into the grain, tight bermuda lie (often made even tougher by being a little soggy in FL!), is the perfect case study/proof of concept as to why you MUST assess the lie first to see what shots the lie will allow you to play!

>

> This, of course, goes for all non-tee shots, but it is so clearly shown by this lie!

>

> As a golfer, we have to understand, of our inventory of shots that we can reasonably produce, which ones are usable in a given situation. Just as you wouldn't try to hit a Texas wedge from a nestled-down, gnarly lie in knee deep rough, you have to become skilled at looking at a lie and situation and deciding which shots just won't work. From there you can determine which ones will work and then determine which ones of those you actually can pull off a reasonable percentage of the time and with a reasonable average score! It does no good to use a shot where you get up and down 50% of the time, but you make double the other 50% of the time. Much better to chip, belly, putt, bump a hybrid, or whatever you need to do to allow yourself 10 out of 10 putts at par and then go make a few of them.

>

> As others before me have stated, go record and watch the Thursday & Friday rounds of golf during the PGA Tour's Florida swing or when they travel to the Bahamas. The best players in the world, who control low point and shaft lean like we only dream about, are choosing to putt when possible, bump it when necessary, and pitch it only when the situation leaves them no other choice. And, even then, when the pitch shot is the only choice, you can almost see them just commit to the bogey and hit the shot. If they get lucky and whiff it a bit, it flops to 4' and they look like the star they are. But, much more commonly, they hit it to 15' and go try to make a putt.

 

A great post. Funny how golfs advanced chapters are cost analysis and perfecting basic shots

 

[aussieb]

When I lived in Florida, I found the Cleveland DSG was the best LW. A sharpish leading edge that sits low opened up, narrow sole, medium to high camber with heaps of trailing, toe and heel relief and variable effective bounce. The wide soles stick on into the grain pitches. When I play in the Melbourne Sand Belt, it's ultra firm and tight so you have to adjust your wedges and putt from off the green. Use a 3w for running chips.

Vokey V is a good choice with a high degree of bounce for straight-faced shots.

Callaway C and R grind. Ping TS is also good.

Order heavy heads if you can and grind them to suit.

[GolfTurkey]

Another vote for the Vokey V Grind. The bounce angle at the front helps with the grabby and the heel and toe relief helps with the tight and keeping the leading edge down when you open it up.

 

IMO wide soles like K grind / Sure Out etc. offer the worst of both worlds on Bermuda. They have a low actual bounce angle when sitting square (otherwise the lead edge would be way up in the air) and if you open them up the leading edge sits too high.

 

IMO buy the wedge that is more useful more often and accept that you will duff some shots, especially into the grain. As others mentioned, Bermuda even makes PGA Tour pro's look like Word not allowedes at times.