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Poll - The Masters: 1986 or 2019


OBbogey5
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To me, it was 2019. Simply because watching Tiger win in 97 is what got me really into golf. So to see my golfing hero come back to his former glory was really special.

 

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Purely looking at the two Masters in isolation, and in particular the Sundays, I think 1986 was better, as it was a much bigger surprise on the day itself, the number JN shot on the back nine was fabulous, his win really came from nowhere. Think about the Sunday morning in '86. What would have been the odds for JN ?

TW in 2019 was playing (very) well the entire week, hit quality shots throughout, played it safe (impressive FW% hit, GIR%), and just was last man standing while others imploded or couldn't sustain a charge by hitting bad drives (Cantlay) rinsing balls (everybody except DJ?) or missing puts (BK).

But looking at the significance for the protagonist (TW or JN), his career, golf in general, there is just no comparison possible. It's 2019 all night long.

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It's like trying to compare whether an IPA is better than a Stout. Both were great tournaments in their own right, but which was better is a matter of personal preference.

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Look at the way Tiger has changed the game. Look at the leaderboard in 1997 and the men he had to beat then: Tom Kite, Tom Watson, Rocca, Couples, Langer, to name a few. No slouches either. Picture these men. Now look at the men that Woods beat in 2019. Fit, athletic, dominant physical specimens - Koepka is an easy example, but DJ, Xander, and Rickie are also similar athletes.

 

That being said, I think the 2019 win is bigger than 1986, not only because of how the game has changed since then, but for that the winner was the one who changed it.

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It’s a legitimate question. Jack shot 65 with no pressure. Nobody really to play against. Kind of like Spieth last year. Posting a score then going to clubhouse for a Samich isn’t quite the same.

 

Tiger has to stare down 2 contenders.

 

That being said I’d vote jack by a whisker for respect. But when tiger gets #18 my mind may change. As this will be the one that opened the gates.

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Saw both, Jack for me he was 4 shots back after 9. Jack was playing horrible and missing cuts before the masters. Tiger was 2 back with 18 to play and has been playing very good for well over a year. I think the Tiger comeback was spectacular especially playing with a back surgery that nobody knows how long it will hold up. Don’t understand the his coming back from the deepest darkest depths of despair comments. To my knowledge he and he alone was responsible for those depths.

The noise for both golfers was very similar. Biggest difference to me is in 1986 there was no internet, 24/7 news, social media...so no where near as overblown in those days. Didn’t replay the 1986 round, unlike 2019 round that has been replayed 5 times so far by my account. Took many months before a VHS tape was available of the 1986 tournament. Certainly with all this news coverage Tiger has been the hero, the golden child, the ultimate family man, a complete pariah, and finally back to the conquering hero last Sunday. Jack had to deal with nothing like that, on the other hand he never gave them anything to wave in his face like a Tiger did..

 

Jack won $144,000, Tiger won $2,000,000. Obviously the Tiger effect on purses since 1997.

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'86 is an easy call for me. Nobody was talking about Nicklaus then. If former champions didn't have a lifetime exemption I don't think he would have qualified for the event.

 

That last round was so epic. He birdied 9,10 and 11 which are all tough holes. The bogey at 12 seemed to take him out of it. It was absolute bedlam when he eagled 15 and almost aced 16. Never seen a golf crowd erupt like that.

 

Tigers comeback has been great but he was one of the favorites coming in. Not the same feeling for me.

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Jack in '86 and it's not even close. I think people need to go back and watch that final round broadcast on youtube and see how Jack took it! A few observations that sound out about 86 vs 19:

* I can't prove it, but the greens were faster in 86 than in 19

* Jack was really a part-time player at the time. Played only a few events outside the majors. And he was 3 years older at 46.

* Nicklaus hit a perfect drive on 13 and had 210.....Tiger had 168 (3 iron vs 8 iron)....so I think the course was playing harder even though the total yardage of AN was shorter then

* Norman and Seve were the 2 best players in the world at that time....probably say the leader board was maybe a hair better in '86 in total. (With Rose and McIlroy out of it it's hard to say 19 was better)

* I will always feel that Molinari lost this Masters vs Tiger won it (If Molinari plays to the center of the green on 12 I don't think Tiger wins)

* While Norman made 5 on 18, and Seve had a few mistakes, there mistakes NEVER took them out of the tournament like Molinari

* Nicklaus TOOK that tournament....birdies at 9, 10, 11, 13, 15 (eagle), 16, 17. (Woods had 3 birdies in that same stretch)

 

GO WATCH IT......86 the world shook!

 

With that being said, I was so happy for Tiger! It was awesome! What a great thread!

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> @OBbogey5 said:

> Can we get a poll around here... Can I see the desktop site on my iPhone? Is there a desktop site on my iPhone..? Anyways...love the update, guys...

>

>

> Which is better?

>

> Jack in 1986, at age 46

> Or

> Tiger in 2019, and completely, utterly finished...in every possible way...

>

> ???

>

> What’ya got, y’all?!

 

Im a Jack fan but Id have to say Tiger only because of all his health issues heck his pain was so bad 1.5 years ago he couldnt move was on floor or bed. He never knew if hed play golf again I equate Tigers ocmeback to Hogans. Now both of the voctories there was certain amount of luck involved due to Norman imploding on 18 on 86 and Molinari on 12 and 13 this year. Tigers may well be greatest comeback in sports.

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'86 Masters. Jack shoots 30. Tiger wins with multiple players making double on 12. Tiger has been playing well as of late and I was happy to see him win but to fire a final 9 of 30 to win takes it for me. Norman Breathing down his neck bridies 14 15 16 17. If he doesn't bogey 18 there may not be a poll question. I give TW a lot of credit as guys were throwing darts this past Sunday and the leaderboard changed more times than a politicians viewpoint. He stayed resilient. Kudos to both but Jack is the GOAT.

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> @wildcatden said:

> Seve choked, which was such a shame because his dad had passed about a month (?) before the '86 Masters. 2019 Tiger takes it for me. Tiger takes control on the 15th hole for his 15th Major. Too bad he didn't finish at -15 to cap it off.

 

> @wildcatden said:

> Seve choked, which was such a shame because his dad had passed about a month (?) before the '86 Masters. 2019 Tiger takes it for me. Tiger takes control on the 15th hole for his 15th Major. Too bad he didn't finish at -15 to cap it off.

 

And Norman famously choked with that fanned 4 iron in the crowd on 18.

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Jack's 86 performance picked up on the back nine , and he never looked back, he finished with a 65 and waited for the results. Tiger finished with a uncharacteristic bogey, rather bland. Its a win, but not the statement that his game usually makes



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> @puttingmatt said:

> Jack's 86 performance picked up on the back nine , and he never looked back, he finished with a 65 and waited for the results. Tiger finished with a uncharacteristic bogey, rather bland. Its a win, but not the statement that his game usually makes

 

Seve bogeyed two holes on the back 9 and finished 2 back. Waiting on the 15th tee, he heard people yelling "hit it in the water".

 

65 was dope. But just like when Molinari hit the water balls, Jack had some help there.

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Tiger 2019 in a close one. I didn’t read every post so this may have been said, but the fields today are much deeper thanks to equipment. Both Jack and Tiger have their fair shares of competition. However, Jack’s era and the equipment of that time could more easily weed out a poor shot or player who didn’t belong at that level.

 

Tiger’s era is much different thanks in large part to equipment. Yes, the equipment helps him, and others, hit it longer but remember ANGC played between 7400-7500 yards in 2019. Plus, the modern equipment allows players who have no business contending, not only contending but actually winning golf tournaments, including majors. Obviously, I’m not a tour player and do not claim to be that caliber of player. Even so, I’m certain there are players on tour today who have won that with 1986 equipment would be in the 2nd flight at their local country country club.

 

Both those victories have great elements to them. I just think it’s tougher to beat the entire field now.

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I watched bott years on TV to me they are equal. Jack winning his 6th green jacket with one of his sons cadding. Jack was not in the lead when the final round started and no one thought of a a 46 year old winning. On the back 9 he started rolling in putts and climbing the leaderboard. with about three hole to go, eveyone sensed all of a sudden. He can win this tournament. the rest is history. In 2019 Tiger was up near the top of the leader board. When tiger won the final Fedex Tournament last year, the thought was can Tiger hold on and Win. In 2019 Masters tiger was solid as a rock all day! Tee to green for the week 81% GIR. He was the tiger of old. On the back nine as the holes past it was evident that he would win and no one could catch him!.

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> @wildcatden said:

> Seve choked, which was such a shame because his dad had passed about a month (?) before the '86 Masters. 2019 Tiger takes it for me. Tiger takes control on the 15th hole for his 15th Major. Too bad he didn't finish at -15 to cap it off.

 

> @wildcatden said:

> Seve choked, which was such a shame because his dad had passed about a month (?) before the '86 Masters. 2019 Tiger takes it for me. Tiger takes control on the 15th hole for his 15th Major. Too bad he didn't finish at -15 to cap it off.

 

And Norman famously choked with that fanned 4 iron in the crowd on 18.> @RobotDoctor said:

> What most people here don’t know is that Jack’s business empire (MacGregor and other interests) were near financial ruin. Nicklaus wasn’t doing outstanding financially. He had that pressure underlying his degraded golf game. Maybe this had quite a bit to do with the poor play because Nicklaus was focusing on his businesses and not playing much golf. To merely dismiss Nicklaus’ accomplishment because Tiger Woods’ issues has been put into the forefront thanks to social media isn’t quite fair to this discussion.

 

He didnt own McGregor did he? His golf equipment co never did anything. Clothing didnt sell much his biggest success has been the design work. And the ice cream :)

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> @ssfranny said:

> > @wildcatden said:

> > Seve choked, which was such a shame because his dad had passed about a month (?) before the '86 Masters. 2019 Tiger takes it for me. Tiger takes control on the 15th hole for his 15th Major. Too bad he didn't finish at -15 to cap it off.

>

> > @wildcatden said:

> > Seve choked, which was such a shame because his dad had passed about a month (?) before the '86 Masters. 2019 Tiger takes it for me. Tiger takes control on the 15th hole for his 15th Major. Too bad he didn't finish at -15 to cap it off.

>

> And Norman famously choked with that fanned 4 iron in the crowd on 18.

 

> @RobotDoctor said:

> > What most people here don’t know is that Jack’s business empire (MacGregor and other interests) were near financial ruin. Nicklaus wasn’t doing outstanding financially. He had that pressure underlying his degraded golf game. Maybe this had quite a bit to do with the poor play because Nicklaus was focusing on his businesses and not playing much golf. To merely dismiss Nicklaus’ accomplishment because Tiger Woods’ issues has been put into the forefront thanks to social media isn’t quite fair to this discussion.

>

> He didnt own McGregor did he? His golf equipment co never did anything. Clothing didnt sell much his biggest success has been the design work. And the ice cream :)

 

MacGregor did pretty well selling golf clubs back in the 70s and 80s. Of course a few other companies starting taking a larger piece of the iron pie (Mizuno, Spaulding, Hogan, to name three). I believe that the course MacGregor set with Brunswick probably started the slow death of MacGregor. Nicklaus' foray into MacGregor was probably a labor of love for the company that did well for him and what it once was. On a side note, my first set of irons I purchased after getting my first real job (after graduating from college) was a set of MacGregor Muirfield 20th irons (1, 3-PW) and I absolutely loved them. Very solid. This was essentially the model and grind Nicklaus played since the mid 60s, just refined a bit to modern standards.

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Honestly, this Masters doesn't make my top-10. So yeah, 1986...by a long shot.

 

My top-10 Masters are (in chronological order):

 

1960

1965

1975

1978

1986

1987

1997

1998

2004

2011

 

But, just to give a comparison of '86 vs. '19.

 

One had a 43-year old who was trailing by 2-shots going into Sunday and he shot 70 and won outright in a round where the average score was 71.46

 

The other was a 46-year old who was trailing by 4-strokes going into Sunday and he played the last 10-holes at 7-under par (and came so close to playing them 10-under par), shot 65 and won outright.

 

 

 

RH

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> @titzercm said:

> Jack in '86 and it's not even close. I think people need to go back and watch that final round broadcast on youtube and see how Jack took it! A few observations that sound out about 86 vs 19:

> * I can't prove it, but the greens were faster in 86 than in 19

> * Jack was really a part-time player at the time. Played only a few events outside the majors. And he was 3 years older at 46.

> * Nicklaus hit a perfect drive on 13 and had 210.....Tiger had 168 (3 iron vs 8 iron)....so I think the course was playing harder even though the total yardage of AN was shorter then

> * Norman and Seve were the 2 best players in the world at that time....probably say the leader board was maybe a hair better in '86 in total. (With Rose and McIlroy out of it it's hard to say 19 was better)

> * I will always feel that Molinari lost this Masters vs Tiger won it (If Molinari plays to the center of the green on 12 I don't think Tiger wins)

> * While Norman made 5 on 18, and Seve had a few mistakes, there mistakes NEVER took them out of the tournament like Molinari

> * Nicklaus TOOK that tournament....birdies at 9, 10, 11, 13, 15 (eagle), 16, 17. (Woods had 3 birdies in that same stretch)

>

> GO WATCH IT......86 the world shook!

>

> With that being said, I was so happy for Tiger! It was awesome! What a great thread!

 

The golfing world shook in '86, the entire sports/media industry shook in '19. I can guarantee Bruce Jenner(or the likes) weren't 12 steps away from Jack on any tee shots in '86. His accomplishment transcends the very sport, and the entire globe is witness too it.

 

 

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> @"A.Princey" said:

> > @titzercm said:

> > Jack in '86 and it's not even close. I think people need to go back and watch that final round broadcast on youtube and see how Jack took it! A few observations that sound out about 86 vs 19:

> > * I can't prove it, but the greens were faster in 86 than in 19

> > * Jack was really a part-time player at the time. Played only a few events outside the majors. And he was 3 years older at 46.

> > * Nicklaus hit a perfect drive on 13 and had 210.....Tiger had 168 (3 iron vs 8 iron)....so I think the course was playing harder even though the total yardage of AN was shorter then

> > * Norman and Seve were the 2 best players in the world at that time....probably say the leader board was maybe a hair better in '86 in total. (With Rose and McIlroy out of it it's hard to say 19 was better)

> > * I will always feel that Molinari lost this Masters vs Tiger won it (If Molinari plays to the center of the green on 12 I don't think Tiger wins)

> > * While Norman made 5 on 18, and Seve had a few mistakes, there mistakes NEVER took them out of the tournament like Molinari

> > * Nicklaus TOOK that tournament....birdies at 9, 10, 11, 13, 15 (eagle), 16, 17. (Woods had 3 birdies in that same stretch)

> >

> > GO WATCH IT......86 the world shook!

> >

> > With that being said, I was so happy for Tiger! It was awesome! What a great thread!

>

> The golfing world shook in '86, the entire sports/media industry shook in '19. I can guarantee Bruce Jenner(or the likes) weren't 12 steps away from Jack on any tee shots in '86. His accomplishment transcends the very sport, and the entire globe is witness too it.

>

>

 

Completely agree.

 

Sure, Jack Nicklaus had a better individual performance in '86, but Tiger climbing his way back to the Pinnacle of the sport from a point where just walking was difficult is on another level entirely.

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> @"A.Princey" said:

> > @titzercm said:

> > Jack in '86 and it's not even close. I think people need to go back and watch that final round broadcast on youtube and see how Jack took it! A few observations that sound out about 86 vs 19:

> > * I can't prove it, but the greens were faster in 86 than in 19

> > * Jack was really a part-time player at the time. Played only a few events outside the majors. And he was 3 years older at 46.

> > * Nicklaus hit a perfect drive on 13 and had 210.....Tiger had 168 (3 iron vs 8 iron)....so I think the course was playing harder even though the total yardage of AN was shorter then

> > * Norman and Seve were the 2 best players in the world at that time....probably say the leader board was maybe a hair better in '86 in total. (With Rose and McIlroy out of it it's hard to say 19 was better)

> > * I will always feel that Molinari lost this Masters vs Tiger won it (If Molinari plays to the center of the green on 12 I don't think Tiger wins)

> > * While Norman made 5 on 18, and Seve had a few mistakes, there mistakes NEVER took them out of the tournament like Molinari

> > * Nicklaus TOOK that tournament....birdies at 9, 10, 11, 13, 15 (eagle), 16, 17. (Woods had 3 birdies in that same stretch)

> >

> > GO WATCH IT......86 the world shook!

> >

> > With that being said, I was so happy for Tiger! It was awesome! What a great thread!

>

> The golfing world shook in '86, the entire sports/media industry shook in '19. I can guarantee Bruce Jenner(or the likes) weren't 12 steps away from Jack on any tee shots in '86. His accomplishment transcends the very sport, and the entire globe is witness too it.

>

>

Was the ladies room 13 steps away?

 

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> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @"A.Princey" said:

> > > @titzercm said:

> > > Jack in '86 and it's not even close. I think people need to go back and watch that final round broadcast on youtube and see how Jack took it! A few observations that sound out about 86 vs 19:

> > > * I can't prove it, but the greens were faster in 86 than in 19

> > > * Jack was really a part-time player at the time. Played only a few events outside the majors. And he was 3 years older at 46.

> > > * Nicklaus hit a perfect drive on 13 and had 210.....Tiger had 168 (3 iron vs 8 iron)....so I think the course was playing harder even though the total yardage of AN was shorter then

> > > * Norman and Seve were the 2 best players in the world at that time....probably say the leader board was maybe a hair better in '86 in total. (With Rose and McIlroy out of it it's hard to say 19 was better)

> > > * I will always feel that Molinari lost this Masters vs Tiger won it (If Molinari plays to the center of the green on 12 I don't think Tiger wins)

> > > * While Norman made 5 on 18, and Seve had a few mistakes, there mistakes NEVER took them out of the tournament like Molinari

> > > * Nicklaus TOOK that tournament....birdies at 9, 10, 11, 13, 15 (eagle), 16, 17. (Woods had 3 birdies in that same stretch)

> > >

> > > GO WATCH IT......86 the world shook!

> > >

> > > With that being said, I was so happy for Tiger! It was awesome! What a great thread!

> >

> > The golfing world shook in '86, the entire sports/media industry shook in '19. I can guarantee Bruce Jenner(or the likes) weren't 12 steps away from Jack on any tee shots in '86. His accomplishment transcends the very sport, and the entire globe is witness too it.

> >

> >

> Was the ladies room 13 steps away?

>

Maybe she can take you on the course, from the t**s, I mean tips.... :D

 

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      That's it! @labgolf and GolfWRX will choose the testers in about 2 weeks! This testing event is for good-standing members in the USA only!
       
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      • 435 replies
    • 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Discussion and Links
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #1
      2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club - Tuesday #2
       
       
      Adam Scott - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
      Justin Rose - WITB - 2021 CJ Cup at The Summit Club
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      Gary Woodland's new Cameron putter - 2021 CJ Cup @ The Summit Club
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      • 6 replies
    • 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open WITB Photos- Discussion & Links
      Please put any questions or comments here...
       
      Links:
       
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Ian Poulter - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Harry Higgs - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Matt NeSmith - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      Doug Ghim - WITB - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Cameron Las Vegas covers - 2021 Shriners Hospitals for Children Open
      New Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX shafts - 2021 Shriners Hospitals doe Children Open
       
       

       
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