Caddies - Tips - Double Bagging - and Questions

[23golfnut]

> @Argonne69 said:

> > @Rohlio said:

> > > @Par5overWater said:

> > > I think you're just as likely to have a good experience with a double caddy or a single.

> >

> >

> > Funny thing I just got back from Scotland... My dad and I Played 5 rounds with caddies and not once was there ever a question that everyone in the group got their own caddie. How come the economics work on that side of the pond?

> >

>

> That was my experience in St Andrews as well. 'Never saw a double bagging caddie. I mentioned it to my caddie on ToC, and he was aghast. 'Just doesn't happen there.

 

Also had a senior/single caddie when I played the Old Course, Kingsbarns, Old Head and RCD. I guess this is the norm in Europe? I believe I gave the caddie fee + tips directly to caddie so don't think the club gets any cut from the fees.

[23golfnut]

> @dcmidnight said:

> > @Par5overWater said:

> > Surprised at all the people that don't want a caddy double-bagging

>

> What exactly surprises you about this? The last time I played with a buddy and we had a double bagging caddy it was miserable - for both of us frankly. His tee balls are normally in the 230 range, off to the left. Mine are in the 275 range, off to the right.

>

> Part of the enjoyment for me of walking with caddies is just walking to my ball and enjoying the walk. Not waiting around for the guy to help my buddy, then grab the bags and rush to my ball. My buddy told me he felt rushed all day and he could tell I wasnt enjoying the double bag situation either - to absolutely no fault of his. The caddies arent slow per se but it is in no way as enjoyable for the player as having a single. So to say a double bagging caddy wont cause you any issues is...more than a little bit optimistic. Although I do understand where you are coming from.

>

> As the customer, I am not going to make a decision on my enjoyment of the round based on whether or not the caddy himself wants to do something else. And believe me - I'm happy to pay for it. But for example, I'm not going to play 36x4 next year at Bandon dealing with double bagging all day.

>

> Anyway, like I said, I obviously get where you are coming from as a caddy. But I have no idea why you think its so strange people would rather have the attention a single bag.

>

>

And sometimes you are forced to play with the wrong club because your double-bagged caddie is nowhere near you and you just can't wait any longer.

 

Single-bag caddie is definitely better for the player, but unfortunately double bagging seems to be the norm in most US golf courses/resorts. If I remember it right, I shared a caddie with another player when I played Whistling Straits and Erin Hills although I had a single-bag caddie when I played Pebble Beach.

[tad950]

> @Argonne69 said:

> > @Rohlio said:

> > > @Par5overWater said:

> > > I think you're just as likely to have a good experience with a double caddy or a single.

> >

> >

> > Funny thing I just got back from Scotland... My dad and I Played 5 rounds with caddies and not once was there ever a question that everyone in the group got their own caddie. How come the economics work on that side of the pond?

> >

>

> That was my experience in St Andrews as well. 'Never saw a double bagging caddie. I mentioned it to my caddie on ToC, and he was aghast. 'Just doesn't happen there.

 

I observed the same thing in Scotland. All single loops. I was traveling with a large group (40+ players) and I carried my own bag, except for the Old Course. Where our group was required to have caddies. I did want a caddie for Cruden Bay, but my request was too late for the caddy master to accommodate me. Even though there 3 caddies in in our foursome. I was told that they would help with green reading, but I would have to carry my own bag. And just offer a tip at the end with no bag fee.

 

At Royal Aberdeen, one of the caddies was kid from the accounting department. Because our group caused a caddy shortage at the course. He was a nice guy, but a terrible caddy with absolutely no knowledge of the course. So once again no double loops.

 

Ireland was the exact opposite. Every course was a double. It might have been because we were another large group (28 players). Most of the caddies were very capable. My friend and I would always tip above the recommended amount, since my miss is high right, and my friend’s is hard left. The only caddy that I was not overly generous with was a supposed full time caddy at Old Head. I guess he figured that since I was spraying the ball around, it wasn’t that necessary to give me full service. When I was packing that night for my flight home, I noticed I was missing my 6 iron. I called down to my buddie’s room. The caddy ended up putting my 6 iron in my friend’s bag. Not intentionally, I’m sure. But a proper caddy counts the clubs in your bag while he is wiping them down. Kind of made me wish that I didn’t buy him lunch at the turn ?. My buddy was traveling on to France for 2 weeks with his family. So I would have been without a full set for 2 weeks.

 

 

 

 

[Firethorn50]

Heading to Whistling this weekend and I’ll be requesting a single. Last time I was there my caddy was doubling and I carried my own bag on several occasions because he had to go way on the other side into the rough with the other guy. I’ll never allow a double again. I didn’t get too filled about, but my playing partners were furious about it..lol.

[vallygolf]

19 minutes ago, Firethorn50 said:

Heading to Whistling this weekend and I’ll be requesting a single. Last time I was there my caddy was doubling and I carried my own bag on several occasions because he had to go way on the other side into the rough with the other guy. I’ll never allow a double again. I didn’t get too filled about, but my playing partners were furious about it..lol.

Caddies work hard and earn their keep for sure.  After years of taking caddies at every course that offered them, I now only take them at courses I am playing for the first time.  I actually find I enjoy the round more.  Most are great. But I was kind of done with the commentary on my game, mechanics, energy level or whatever caught their eye that day.  Im on vacation playing golf.  I just want to stroll along play my shots and enjoy the course.  Many caddies added to that, but the number that detracted have made me enjoy more playing without. Double looping actually helps this IMO as the focus is spread out and I can just plan ahead and enjoy.

Edited August 26, 2021 by vallygolf

[Firethorn50]

Makes perfect sense to me. My caddy last time cost me several strokes with terrible aim points off the tee and on the green. After about the 4th hole I told him I’ve got the green reading from here (and went on the have a phenomenal day of putting).

 

I called Whistling today and they told me you can’t actually ask for a single loop caddy anymore. They’re contracted out and they’re contracted out as double loop only. But, there’s only 3 in our group although the reservation says 4. The guy in the pro shop said he’ll leave it as 4 so someone *cough cough* in our group will have a single loop 🙂

[Argonne69]

6 minutes ago, Firethorn50 said:

Makes perfect sense to me. My caddy last time cost me several strokes with terrible aim points off the tee and on the green. After about the 4th hole I told him I’ve got the green reading from here (and went on the have a phenomenal day of putting).

 

I called Whistling today and they told me you can’t actually ask for a single loop caddy anymore. They’re contracted out and they’re contracted out as double loop only. But, there’s only 3 in our group although the reservation says 4. The guy in the pro shop said he’ll leave it as 4 so someone *cough cough* in our group will have a single loop 🙂

 

Scr-w that. I'd carry my own bag rather than having a double bagging caddie. 

 

[DavePelz4]

Have had double baggers quite a few times, never bothered me.  If it means sometimes I need to grab the bag and walk to my ball on the other side of the fairway, no biggie.  Either that or grab a couple of clubs and a rangefinder.

[ND2005]

21 hours ago, vallygolf said:

But I was kind of done with the commentary on my game, mechanics, energy level or whatever caught their eye that day.  Im on vacation playing golf.  I just want to stroll along play my shots and enjoy the course.  Many caddies added to that, but the number that detracted have made me enjoy more playing without. 

 

Call the resort the week you're arriving, ask to talk to the caddie master. Tell him/her what you want and don't want in a caddie, and the general skill level of your group. 

 

You can also lay out your expectations to a caddy directly at the beginning of the round...

 

Oh, and all of the major golf resorts have massive caddie shortages. Single bagging is just not tenable for them. I can't imagine why people would have such a problem with double bagging. 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by ND2005

[raynorfan1]

I feel alone in this...but I vastly prefer a double caddie to a single. Maybe it comes down to what you want...but I don't want a PGA tour experience - I need a guy who will carry my bag so I don't have to, and will help me find balls in the rough. I find the single bag to be a super weird rent-a-friend experience.

[Argonne69]

4 hours ago, ND2005 said:

 

Call the resort the week you're arriving, ask to talk to the caddie master. Tell him/her what you want and don't want in a caddie, and the general skill level of your group. 

 

You can also lay out your expectations to a caddy directly at the beginning of the round...

 

Oh, and all of the major golf resorts have massive caddie shortages. Single bagging is just not tenable for them. I can't imagine why people would have such a problem with double bagging. 

 

 

Because I don't want my caddie standing  75 yards over in the left rough when I'm in the right rough standing around waiting for a club. Or raking a greenside bunker for my playing partner when I'm standing on the green waiting for my putter.  I had a double bagging caddie at Erin Hills, and it was simply the worst experience. I've had single caddies at Erin Hills (previously), Streamsong, St Andrews, Old St Andrews Castle, Kingsbarns, Pebble Beach, Chambers Bay, Whistling Straits, and The Ocean course at Kiawah.

 

High end courses have been able to provide single caddies for decades. I simply don't believe it can't be done now. 

 

 

[ND2005]

49 minutes ago, raynorfan1 said:

I feel alone in this...but I vastly prefer a double caddie to a single. Maybe it comes down to what you want...but I don't want a PGA tour experience - I need a guy who will carry my bag so I don't have to, and will help me find balls in the rough. I find the single bag to be a super weird rent-a-friend experience.

 

I had a great experience with a single caddie, I've had a great experience with a double caddie, I've had a bad experience with a single caddie, I've had a bad experience with a double caddie. 

 

Bottom line a good caddie can handle two bags and still provide good service and a good experience for the players. It is similar to someone who knows how to play ready golf - they anticipate, they get you your clubs before running off to your partner, they stay ahead of the game. 

[golfday]

If you're requesting a single caddie - tip them big. It's not an easy way to make a living and only taking one bag isn't sustainable for them at most places.

 

People will say "well $100 for 4 hours on the course is $25 / hour, and that's enough"... but that's the only 4 hours the caddy may get to work that day, and at some places their day involved getting there at 7 am to help set things up and then waiting all day for a group - so much more than 4 hours. Then you factor in off season days where you don't get a bag, bad weather days with no bag, the fact that these guys typically have no benefits (i.e. insurance) provided, etc. and you quickly realize single bagging isn't going to pay a living wage unless - so show some respect to the human lugging your bag and give a healthy tip. 

 

My personal caddy pet peeves:

- When a caddie hands me a club for the next tee while we're on the green, then get to the tee and he's 200 yards away and I have the wrong club (this happens first time playing a course)

- Caddies tend to under read all putts, making me prefer reading my own most of the time

- Bad aiming lines off the tee or on blind shots

- Not knowing where the miss spots are

- Not knowing if a pin is back, middle, front

[DavePelz4]

Quick list of things I really appreciate from a caddie:

 

1. Spending 10 minutes on the range to pick up my ball flight.

2. Sharing the speed they're looking at when suggesting a line. Recent caddie said every read is with the ball just falling into the hole.

3. Sharing options like, "If you really want to get aggressive here..."

4. Not reading putts when not needed.

5. Telling me "their" job is to rake the bunker.

6. Being comfortable on a putt to say "I'm not really sure."

7. Not assuming the chip shot is always with a wedge.

8. Asking questions as opposed to assuming.

9. Sharing why you want to aim 50 yards right of the green instead of just saying hit it here.

10. Laughing softly at "those" shots.

 

[raynorfan1]

IMO you guys expect too much from caddies. I blame what you see on TV.

 

I play almost all my rounds with caddies, and I expect them to:

(1) carry my bag;

(2) offer a second opinion on putt line;

(3) be offended when you rake the bunker yourself.

 

I've never found double-bagging to be an issue (assuming two caddies in the group). If the caddies work together and know the course, you should never find yourself waiting on them.

 

Just like marriage...having low expectations keeps everybody happy in the long run.

[Firethorn50]

2 hours ago, DavePelz4 said:

Quick list of things I really appreciate from a caddie:

 

1. Spending 10 minutes on the range to pick up my ball flight.

2. Sharing the speed they're looking at when suggesting a line. Recent caddie said every read is with the ball just falling into the hole.

3. Sharing options like, "If you really want to get aggressive here..."

4. Not reading putts when not needed.

5. Telling me "their" job is to rake the bunker.

6. Being comfortable on a putt to say "I'm not really sure."

7. Not assuming the chip shot is always with a wedge.

8. Asking questions as opposed to assuming.

9. Sharing why you want to aim 50 yards right of the green instead of just saying hit it here.

10. Laughing softly at "those" shots.

 

Good list! Number-1 is so important! A quality caddy will hang with you at the range and the practice green. Number-7 is a good one too. Last time every shot around the green was “sand wedge?”..lol. I’m like, nope, 60 or 8i.

[Firethorn50]

3 hours ago, raynorfan1 said:

IMO you guys expect too much from caddies. I blame what you see on TV.

 

I play almost all my rounds with caddies, and I expect them to:

(1) carry my bag;

(2) offer a second opinion on putt line;

(3) be offended when you rake the bunker yourself.

 

I've never found double-bagging to be an issue (assuming two caddies in the group). If the caddies work together and know the course, you should never find yourself waiting on them.

 

Just like marriage...having low expectations keeps everybody happy in the long run.

Pretty much my thought process as well. But I now have to add: (4) don’t make me carry my own bag 😂 I know I had a newbie.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Firethorn50

[raynorfan1]

1 hour ago, Firethorn50 said:

Pretty much my thought process as well. But I now have to add: (4) don’t make me carry my own bag 😂 I know I had a newbie.

 

I would argue that a caddie should feel the same shame if I pick up and carry my bag as if I rake a trap. I'm going to do it if it fits the scenario on the ground...but it shouldn't feel great if you're the caddie.

[StudentGolfer4]

Caddie here... I’ve mentioned most of this is various threads before but short version. 

 

1. communicate expectations with your caddy!  I do my best to read all putts the first few holes but don’t give input unless asked. If you want help around the greens mention it to your caddy. If you are wanting yardages to factor in wind or slope let them know. You enjoy fixing your own ball marks? Works for me. Just tell me that and they’re all yours. First hole this summer, had a guest look at me and say “I’m waiting, are you going to help me with this putt or not?” I had no idea he wanted any help at all. By hole 4 he wasn’t even reading them himself and just trusted my lines. A lot of people like to read their own putts but will commonly say “take a look at this one for me.” Not a problem. Just let me know what you need. My job is to make your round more enjoyable. Most problems can be solved by simply communicating with them.  
 

2. Help your caddy out a bit. If I give you a line off the tee and then ask you to wait a second so I can get in position to see the landing area don’t hit when I’m 20 yards off the box. If you hit a green and I'm carrying 2 bags be willing to take the putter. If you always use the same club around the greens please take your wedge. Forecaddie up ahead and you spray one off the tee? A point left or right can make all the difference. 90% off the time your caddy will be tracking the ball anyway, but backdrop sun, clouds, weather can all add wrinkles that complicate it a bit more. 
 

3. Be realistic about your own abilities. If we are on the back 9 and you’re 200+ from the green, I really don’t need to confirm if you are 198 or 202. When you are putting birdie from 70 ft there’s no reason for us to spend 5 minutes discussing if it breaks 2ft 6 inches or 2ft 8 inches. Lag it close and make par. (Yes I know there are exceptions to this). 
 

4. You are hitting the shots and making the decisions. Not your caddie. Own your shots. It’s not the caddies fault you hit a bad shot. You like 7 but they suggest 8 because of xyz. It’s your call. Don’t hook an 8 then blame your caddie or comment that you should have hit the 7. To avoid this I talk in numbers and not clubs. Player, “think it’s 7 or 8 here?” Me, “I think 165 is a good number.” A lot of times when people ask me which club they think it is, after mentioning yardage, I will say “I think either will put you on the green here.” I want to instill confidence in my player. Not have them second guessing. You’re in charge. You make the final decision and need to own the result. 
 

5. Reread number 1. Communicate your expectations and preferences with your caddie. 

[2bGood]

Interesting thread.

 

I kind of view caddies as a bit of wild card. through many rounds with them I have landed on preferring not to have one in the group at all. 

 

Sounds weird to say - but I am there having a good time (typically on vacation) and the caddie is their acting like it is work🤨 (it is). It kind of kills the vibe.

 

I have however had some great caddies. I had one that was straight out of "an American Caddie at St Andrews". It was not at St Andrews, but the kid was a scratch golfer who took the summer to go Caddie at this world class course. He was as excited to be there as I was, so it was a good time. A few other stand out in my mind.

 

I am low single digit handicap golfer who carry my bag for 120 rounds a year, I don't really need a caddie and even it was free there is not many times I would take one now unless I really needed guidance around the course layout. Not that I have has many bad experiences, just that the caddie did not enhance the experience more than half the time.

 

Truth be told I love 'discovering the course' and enjoy reading a good yardage book.

[Roody]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:24 PM, raynorfan1 said:

I feel alone in this...but I vastly prefer a double caddie to a single. Maybe it comes down to what you want...but I don't want a PGA tour experience - I need a guy who will carry my bag so I don't have to, and will help me find balls in the rough. I find the single bag to be a super weird rent-a-friend experience.

 

I think I am the opposite on this, at least a little. My wife and I were just at Pebble last week. For my round at Spanish Bay, I got a single-bag caddie who was exceptional. So much so that I asked him to loop for me a couple days later at Spyglass. We spent both rounds sharing stories, I got a lot of detailed advice, and it was just a really great time. 

For the round at Pebble, my wife played with me and we got a double-bagger. That experience was fine, but he just wasn't able to focus like the dedicated caddie. And that's to be expected, I don't blame him because after all he's gotta do double the work. But if you give me the choice, I would take the single-bagger. 

[StudentGolfer4]

As the caddie I’m always a little torn when I know I have a double. Partially excited to make more (usually double) money but also a little bummed. Some of it depends on the weather, but the hot and humid days of summer I always say that a double bag takes the enjoyment out of it. It requires a ton more work and hustling to do a good job for both players. 
 

If you are at a course that traditionally double bags and you make a special request for a single, I would advise tipping them a but more than usual. Depending on the culture of the caddie program it may be possible for the caddie to decline and give it to the next guy, but I assume them taking the single is money from their pocket. 

[rooski]

When I caddied in high school/college at Bandon I couldn't stand double bagging. The best part about caddying was forming a relationship with somebody out there for a great trip. I remember the conversations, some great shots, my favorite loops, etc when I was single bagging.

 

I have absolutely no memory of anything when I double bagged. All you do all day is power walk as fast as possible making sure you're not holding anything up. No chance I could tell you the name, job, hobbies, or golf game of any person I double bagged for back then. Was a miserable experience imo.

Edited September 10, 2021 by rooski

[MountainKing]

Going through this thread is interesting.  I find it really interesting so many golfers rely on somebody they just met to offer up clubs, lines they should take, or reading a green for them.  I just want the guy/gal to carry my clubs, rake a bunker and take care of the divots.  I'm good with giving me some local knowledge, but I'll figure out the rest from there.  I feel like too many here are expecting way too much out of caddies.  

[thezinfan]

So someone rolling into Bandon the first or second time should know the driving lines and putting reads better than the caddies who loop 2-3 times a day there?

[ND2005]

On 9/11/2021 at 12:27 PM, MountainKing said:

Going through this thread is interesting.  I find it really interesting so many golfers rely on somebody they just met to offer up clubs, lines they should take, or reading a green for them.  I just want the guy/gal to carry my clubs, rake a bunker and take care of the divots.  I'm good with giving me some local knowledge, but I'll figure out the rest from there.  I feel like too many here are expecting way too much out of caddies.  

 

I don't expect a caddie I've just met to offer me clubs. I do expect them to give me yardages, and I ask fairly early in the round that they give me "true" yardage not adjusted yardage (I've seen a number of resort caddies who tell you the yardage they want you to hit not the actual yardage they shot with the laser). 

 

Sight lines off the tee are huge and probably one of the biggest benefits of a caddie, especially at courses with blind tee shots, forced carries, difficult angles, etc. 

 

Any round with a new caddie I will feel out how they are at reading the greens over the first couple of holes. If they are a good caddie I will have them keep reading my putts, if it seems like they aren't any better than my judgment (or plain bad/wrong) I'll just do my own thing after the first couple. 

[me05501]

I got invited to play Shoal Creek as a guest once and my buddy and I were assigned a caddie named Budweiser. He somehow carried both bags upright, with the openings in front of each shoulder. Over the course of the round he gradually rearranged our clubs to the point that all of both players' irons were in one bag and all the woods, wedges and putters were in the other. At the end of the round he sorted them back into the correct bags. 

 

It was a long day. 

 

The Honors Course is local to me and I've been fortunate enough to play as a guest several times. They have a great caddie program and I have yet to draw a caddie that I didn't enjoy playing with. 

 

Normally for a walking foursome you'll have two caddies double-bagging.

 

One way they maintain the strength of their caddie program is by discouraging carts most of the time. You may take a cart if you prefer, but the cart fee and the caddie fee are the same so most members choose to walk (with Peyton Manning being one notable exception). 

 

If you tee off after about 2pm they'll put you in golf carts for pace of play reasons, and generally they'll put one forecaddie on the whole group. That works pretty well. 

 

I can't think of another club near here with a caddie program of any kind. 

[italianstallion]

Every single-bag caddy I’ve had made the experience pleasurable. Reading greens, giving lines off the tees, and the fun stories some of them had all made for a good time. My experience with caddies at top tier clubs/resorts is that they know you’re there maybe once, and they work hard to make that experience enjoyable. I’ve gotten bum yardages and trusted reads they gave which didn’t end up being right, but they’ve also given the right yardages and made great reads just as much. Nobody is perfect. 
 

I got a double bag caddy for the first time in my life a few weeks ago and I’ll elect to carry my bag on my own if that’s the only option offered. It’s a hard gig I understand, but they’re only there to carry the bag and give clubs. Getting yardages, green reads, replacing divots, and lines off the tee were all on me. At the end of the round I asked the caddy the standard price per bag for a double loop, and he replied with $100-120. Probably should have checked with the caddiemaster because that seemed high for what I got. 

[Argonne69]

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

I got invited to play Shoal Creek as a guest once and my buddy and I were assigned a caddie named Budweiser. He somehow carried both bags upright, with the openings in front of each shoulder. Over the course of the round he gradually rearranged our clubs to the point that all of both players' irons were in one bag and all the woods, wedges and putters were in the other. At the end of the round he sorted them back into the correct bags. 

 

It was a long day. 

 

The Honors Course is local to me and I've been fortunate enough to play as a guest several times. They have a great caddie program and I have yet to draw a caddie that I didn't enjoy playing with. 

 

Normally for a walking foursome you'll have two caddies double-bagging.

 

One way they maintain the strength of their caddie program is by discouraging carts most of the time. You may take a cart if you prefer, but the cart fee and the caddie fee are the same so most members choose to walk (with Peyton Manning being one notable exception). 

 

If you tee off after about 2pm they'll put you in golf carts for pace of play reasons, and generally they'll put one forecaddie on the whole group. That works pretty well. 

 

I can't think of another club near here with a caddie program of any kind. 

 

Sigh. Every time I hear "carts" and "pace of play" used together I want to scream. 'Spent a frustrating morning following four clowns riding when us walkers waited on every shot. Sadly it happens all too regularly.

 

'Definitely believe one should be required to take an annual exam on how to properly use a cart before they'll give someone the keys.

 

[me05501]

Just now, Argonne69 said:

 

Sigh. Every time I hear "carts" and "pace of play" used together I want to scream. 'Spent a frustrating morning following four clowns riding when us walkers waited on every shot. Sadly it happens all too regularly.

 

'Definitely believe one should be required to take an annual exam on how to properly use a cart before they'll give someone the keys.

 

 

That's the club's policy so in this case you'd have to take it up with them. I know they don't allow carts to go out without a forecaddie in the group, so I assume that maintaining appropriate pace is one of his responsibilities. 

 

It's an extremely well-run club. There are definitely rules, traditions and expectations, but they also make every guest feel right at home.