Why Cant I develop Accuracy in my Driver?

[Exactice808]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> IMO - If you're not squaring the face angle at impact, dispersion, for my expectations is probably too high. I see far too often people swinging out of their shoes on every hole as opposed to choosing the proper club off the tee. Also, it may be their driver isn't set up right them and or they're trying too hard to maximize distance, at any cost but then don't have the next shot in the bag from junk. Example, recently on the first tee, facing a dog-leg right Par 5, I chose 2 iron to reach the turn. My three playing partners each chose driver. Two hit it through the dog-leg and the other bit off more than he could chew over the inside dog-leg costing him a ball. I took Par, and one took 7 the other two took 8's. The result was a poor choice in a club, some lack of self-control and not having the next shot in the bag. They could have bogeyed the hole.

>

> I recently took back TS2 10.5 on account trajectory was too high and got a 9.5. Threw the OEM shaft in a barrel and when with my two after-market shafts options. Project X 6C12 tour issue is for when I am feeling really strong and want to swing as fast as possible. The other listed in my Sig "Fujikura Fuel Tour Spec 60" is my trustworthy low-dispersion fairway finder.

 

I’ve always heard this from playing partners. But it’s a misnomer because they older and I am just longer relative to them.

 

Anyways. Yeah slowing down is a mess. And I still have a gear if I wanted but don’t because that’s the double edge sword. Speeding up is a mess and slowing down is a mess. But I guess what I think is normal is a mess. Lol.

 

Something in regards to transition or tempo or something is off. Causing issues. Let me get a recent video and see what might be going down.

 

 

[Exactice808]

> @GungHoGolf said:

> How long is your driver? Cutting mine down 2” was the best thing I ever did equipment-wise. I’m 6’3” for reference.

 

 

I’m 5’8” little guy. Standard Titleist length so 45”

 

TM & Ping are a crap shoot at 45.5-45.75”

 

I like the shorter cuts but was thinking. Shorter. But I have 3 different shafts and a bonded driver cut shorter 44”. Tested choking up and found no discernible accuracy improvements

[FullOfBrushMan]

Ok. Let's get this out of the way. 100% it's mechanical. Take lessons in some shape or form and fully commit to it.

The PGA Tour leader is 75% to hit the fairway. So the BEST IN THE WORLD hits 3 out of 4. The lowest on Tour is typically 50% or 2 out of 4. You are not even close to tour average. If I hit 50% of my drivers in a round I am thrilled and if I miss I miss correctly on the correct side of the fairway/rough. Odds are you will miss the fairway more than 50% of the time so go for distance for the shorter second approach shot and be happy.

[sekrah]

I read this thread after coming to a realization this weekend -- after watching a Monte video -- that my shoulder turn is flat/shallow. Mind blowing.

 

My most consistent club has always been driver/woods/hybrids. Short/Mid Irons? Hit and miss. I must be consistently shallow on all clubs and just getting lucky when i hit a good short/mid iron.

 

I need to hit balls now. s***, it's raining.

 

I don't think too many mid-high cap amateurs think too much about their shoulder-to-spine tilt.

[Exactice808]

Remember Im not scratch, I am a mid handicap player so go easy on my LOL

 

these are the face over 2 range sessions probably close to 50 shots each driver.

45.25" Cobra Fly Z with 7M3 black tie stiff set at 10*

Choked up about 1", as I stated in the prior post some odd reason I seem to find the heel side of the face on when I setup visually center

 

915D3 Kuro Kage 60 Silver X-flex (I know I know, just trying something different) , 45" choke down about 1/2" ( usually have a Diamana D+ Stiff (In all honesty, it looks about the same face with the Diamana as the Kuro Kage), but was just trying something different for the last 3 rounds, since I was fed up) This one I seemed much more centered. but again I setup more on inner 1/3 of the ball so the head marking looks like its more on the inside of the ball rather than the center -

 

(Still uploading video will have shortly... but its not good) way more mechanical fixes than I thought.....) hooray for go-pros I guess LOL!

Regardless, Watching my damn swing again after almost 1 year of not checking, "Thinking" I fixed things.... not really.... Only major difference is my right elbow does NOT get away as much as it use to, but it still gets stuck then hangs back and then the stupid early extension is back........

 

Guess I should have videoed earlier... just never had a chance to set up the camera....

 

 

 

[Exactice808]

6iron Regular

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyz73jgr418](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyz73jgr418 "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyz73jgr418")

6iron slow

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94fcXI8gy0Q](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94fcXI8gy0Q "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94fcXI8gy0Q")

Driver Regular

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vuOiNBNF54](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vuOiNBNF54 "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vuOiNBNF54")

Driver Slow

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5mq25ynIKU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5mq25ynIKU "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5mq25ynIKU")

[Exactice808]

@jut111

@copperjeff

@glk

 

HELP!!!! I know its a mess..... Dont get me wrong at all, I have been just living through it...... I manage to get around the course good enough... But Im tired "of good enough"

 

HELP!!!! LOL! So you can see how bad the real swing is. PERIOD... regardless now of the practice swing and all.... The things I THINK I suffer from are....

1) Early extension and casting?

2) Over-rotating, the back swing

3) stuck right elbow

 

and then the mess inbtween....

 

What the heck do I do NOW LOL!!!!!! Drills, practice. Quit... what is it LOL!

 

[copperjeff]

> @Exactice808 said:

> @jut111

> @copperjeff

> @glk

>

> HELP!!!! I know its a mess..... Dont get me wrong at all, I have been just living through it...... I manage to get around the course good enough... But Im tired "of good enough"

>

> HELP!!!! LOL! So you can see how bad the real swing is. PERIOD... regardless now of the practice swing and all.... The things I THINK I suffer from are....

> 1) Early extension and casting?

> 2) Over-rotating, the back swing

> 3) stuck right elbow

>

> and then the mess inbtween....

>

> What the heck do I do NOW LOL!!!!!! Drills, practice. Quit... what is it LOL!

>

 

Start with getting a more vertical wrist set in the backswing. A good drill is to have an alignment stick in the end of a club (or hold one) and get the stick pointing inside the ball all the way up to left arm parallel.

 

This should help with the arm overrun as well, but some of that is also going to be proprioception.

 

Fixing the downswing will be almost impossible until you get your backswing squared away.

[Exactice808]

> @copperjeff said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > @jut111

> > @copperjeff

> > @glk

> >

> > HELP!!!! I know its a mess..... Dont get me wrong at all, I have been just living through it...... I manage to get around the course good enough... But Im tired "of good enough"

> >

> > HELP!!!! LOL! So you can see how bad the real swing is. PERIOD... regardless now of the practice swing and all.... The things I THINK I suffer from are....

> > 1) Early extension and casting?

> > 2) Over-rotating, the back swing

> > 3) stuck right elbow

> >

> > and then the mess inbtween....

> >

> > What the heck do I do NOW LOL!!!!!! Drills, practice. Quit... what is it LOL!

> >

>

> Start with getting a more vertical wrist set in the backswing. A good drill is to have an alignment stick in the end of a club (or hold one) and get the stick pointing inside the ball all the way up to left arm parallel.

>

> This should help with the arm overrun as well, but some of that is also going to be proprioception.

>

> Fixing the downswing will be almost impossible until you get your backswing squared away.

 

THANK YOU! Will do!!! At this point getting desperate...... so willing to go through some drastic re builds to do so! (Did the lessons locally while appreciated, they seemed not to want to revamp my swing?)

 

As for "Vertical wrist set" just to make sure, its because I lay the club down at the top right so if I take it more or hold it more vertical this should stop me from going wanting to go over the top and or EE???

 

Again thank you super open minded and willing to try anything at this point!

 

 

[copperjeff]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @copperjeff said:

> > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > @jut111

> > > @copperjeff

> > > @glk

> > >

> > > HELP!!!! I know its a mess..... Dont get me wrong at all, I have been just living through it...... I manage to get around the course good enough... But Im tired "of good enough"

> > >

> > > HELP!!!! LOL! So you can see how bad the real swing is. PERIOD... regardless now of the practice swing and all.... The things I THINK I suffer from are....

> > > 1) Early extension and casting?

> > > 2) Over-rotating, the back swing

> > > 3) stuck right elbow

> > >

> > > and then the mess inbtween....

> > >

> > > What the heck do I do NOW LOL!!!!!! Drills, practice. Quit... what is it LOL!

> > >

> >

> > Start with getting a more vertical wrist set in the backswing. A good drill is to have an alignment stick in the end of a club (or hold one) and get the stick pointing inside the ball all the way up to left arm parallel.

> >

> > This should help with the arm overrun as well, but some of that is also going to be proprioception.

> >

> > Fixing the downswing will be almost impossible until you get your backswing squared away.

>

> THANK YOU! Will do!!! At this point getting desperate...... so willing to go through some drastic re builds to do so! (Did the lessons locally while appreciated, they seemed not to want to revamp my swing?)

>

> As for "Vertical wrist set" just to make sure, its because I lay the club down at the top right so if I take it more or hold it more vertical this should stop me from going wanting to go over the top and or EE???

>

> Again thank you super open minded and willing to try anything at this point!

>

>

 

Not necessarily about laying the club down at the top, the shaft is very flat throughout most of the backswing. From the point of shaft parallel in the backswing, you hinge more away from target line as opposed to more towards the sky.

 

The entire motion of your backswing lends to yanking the handle and getting steep in the downswing. Depending on how you react to changing the backswing, there are a myriad of different "fixes" for the transition/downswing.

 

If it doesn't feel incredibly different and awkward as all get-out, you probably aren't changing anything.

[Exactice808]

> @copperjeff said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > > @copperjeff said:

> > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > @jut111

> > > > @copperjeff

> > > > @glk

> > > >

> > > > HELP!!!! I know its a mess..... Dont get me wrong at all, I have been just living through it...... I manage to get around the course good enough... But Im tired "of good enough"

> > > >

> > > > HELP!!!! LOL! So you can see how bad the real swing is. PERIOD... regardless now of the practice swing and all.... The things I THINK I suffer from are....

> > > > 1) Early extension and casting?

> > > > 2) Over-rotating, the back swing

> > > > 3) stuck right elbow

> > > >

> > > > and then the mess inbtween....

> > > >

> > > > What the heck do I do NOW LOL!!!!!! Drills, practice. Quit... what is it LOL!

> > > >

> > >

> > > Start with getting a more vertical wrist set in the backswing. A good drill is to have an alignment stick in the end of a club (or hold one) and get the stick pointing inside the ball all the way up to left arm parallel.

> > >

> > > This should help with the arm overrun as well, but some of that is also going to be proprioception.

> > >

> > > Fixing the downswing will be almost impossible until you get your backswing squared away.

> >

> > THANK YOU! Will do!!! At this point getting desperate...... so willing to go through some drastic re builds to do so! (Did the lessons locally while appreciated, they seemed not to want to revamp my swing?)

> >

> > As for "Vertical wrist set" just to make sure, its because I lay the club down at the top right so if I take it more or hold it more vertical this should stop me from going wanting to go over the top and or EE???

> >

> > Again thank you super open minded and willing to try anything at this point!

> >

> >

>

> Not necessarily about laying the club down at the top, the shaft is very flat throughout most of the backswing. From the point of shaft parallel in the backswing, you hinge more away from target line as opposed to more towards the sky.

>

> The entire motion of your backswing lends to yanking the handle and getting steep in the downswing. Depending on how you react to changing the backswing, there are a myriad of different "fixes" for the transition/downswing.

>

> If it doesn't feel incredibly different and awkward as all get-out, you probably aren't changing anything.

 

Im trying it already at home and it feels super weird and Im sure it suppose too. I going to drill it for tonight... I am one of those stubborn body guys gotta swing like 10,000 correctly to get one issue worked out LOL!....

[Exactice808]

@copperjeff, @jut111 , @glk , Second question.

Separate discussion. What is actually wrong with my Practice swing from the other thread?

positioning wise I feel that my practice swing is in "Better" positions than my Real swing?

I again understand the face open at impact.. Thats evident. But if the timing and sequence position wise seem normal. isnt the final piece of squaring the clubs either by hand or more body rotation?

 

What I am getting at is, is the practice swing positions correct or is it wrong as well? but just not as horribly wrong as the real swing??

 

I dont understand what is actually wrong with my practice swings, I can see whats wrong with my real swing.. what I am ultimately trying to get at with my question.

[glk]

Online with iteach or Monte. You need an quality golf instructor giving you feedback. Whoever you went to did you no favors. Flush the idea that somehow your practice swing is much better than when you have a ball in front of you - it’s pretty much the same swing (and this is true for all of us). Focus on taking steps to improve your swing. It’s not a rebuild, its just about making incremental changes over time.

 

[copperjeff]

> @Exactice808 said:

> @copperjeff, @jut111 , @glk , Second question.

> Separate discussion. What is actually wrong with my Practice swing from the other thread?

> positioning wise I feel that my practice swing is in "Better" positions than my Real swing?

> I again understand the face open at impact.. Thats evident. But if the timing and sequence position wise seem normal. isnt the final piece of squaring the clubs either by hand or more body rotation?

>

> What I am getting at is, is the practice swing positions correct or is it wrong as well? but just not as horribly wrong as the real swing??

>

> I dont understand what is actually wrong with my practice swings, I can see whats wrong with my real swing.. what I am ultimately trying to get at with my question.

 

@Exactice808 Really good question.

 

A lot of people won't ask these types of questions to have a better understanding of his/her swing. Changing your understanding of your swing can be a very big element to actually changing your swing.

 

To answer your question, in your practice swing, setting the open clubface aside, yes your rhythm and sequencing are pretty good. Yes you get the shaft in a nice looking "position" on the downswing. The problem is we are talking about positions versus the actual dynamic motion of your swing. We can't just insert a square clubface into the equation and solve everything. Take a look at your practice swing where the club shaft is along your forearm. The club face is wide open at this point. Your options to close it are to bow the left wrist or roll over the wrists/forearms, or cast the club out past the target line (options 2 and 3 basically being one in the same). If you look at your wrists at this point, your right wrist is already extended near to the limits of ROM. (at least for the average person) You literally can't just close the face. (also its possible that while looking at the video of your practice swing you might have whiffed had a ball been there)

 

 

Let me know if you have other questions, I'm happy to help

 

 

 

[copperjeff]

> @Exactice808 said:

> @copperjeff, @jut111 , @glk , Second question.

> isnt the final piece of squaring the clubs either by hand or more body rotation?

>

 

I realized I didn't answer the part about more body rotation squaring the clubhead. Basically, by the time you were to get square by adding body rotation, you would have to be so incredibly open with your body that it would be virtually impossible. Not to mention, by then the club would be moving so far left, and likely be so high off the ground, hitting a ball would likely be impossible/fruitless.

 

 

[Exactice808]

> @glk said:

> Online with iteach or Monte. You need an quality golf instructor giving you feedback. ** Whoever you went to did you no favors**. Flush the idea that somehow your practice swing is much better than when you have a ball in front of you - it’s pretty much the same swing (and this is true for all of us). Focus on taking steps to improve your swing. It’s not a rebuild, its just about making incremental changes over time.

>

 

I will take responsibility for that. As maybe my goal was not implied. Or I moved the goal post now. When I went for my first fitting it was to dial in distance gaps, So I had a lesson along with a wedge fitting. (this lesson focused on spin and getting a better AoA for irons)

The second time I went was because I had issues with dispersion across the board. The instructor zeroed in on TIMING is my primary issue. Never once did I say I wanted to play high level golf, so the instructor likely felt a swing revamp was not worth it and just zero in on what I was looking to achieve.

 

NOW I realize how bad my swing has been over the years. Its a self evaluation, realizing that I have been able to play the golf that I play now and "get away with it". I now "WANT" to play higher level golf, before I was not so hung up on average score, I just wanted to shoot the best I could that day. If I didnt, I just looked to shooting better the next week. Shooting higher level is putting down better scores on a consistent basis. That I have never done. one week I can shoot 79 the next 97... That can be fine in general. But again I am moving my goal post I dont want to do that anymore nor will I settle for that.

 

as for throwing out the "practice swing" I get it. BUT I really wanted to understand why. I am early extending bad in my real swing. But in my practice swing I am not. That means I am doing something right in my practice swing that I am NOT in my real swing. I want to understand the function, the cause and effect of what is causing my swing to go haywire. I have been putting band-aids on it for years as it seems. The best I can do is shoot scores 79-97... So the bandaids work to shoot 1 low score and then they come off....

 

Anyways, I appreciate your comments! I laugh as you said focus on taking step to improve your swing..... Sadly I feel that I cant "improve" the current swing because its riddled with so many bad habits..... I may just need that revamp LOL!.... But I agree... I need to make incremental changes. like @copperjeff stated... I need to address one part to get to the next... the first step..... getting the take away figured out so I can initiated the down swing? This road will be long and suck... but I am making that choice now, rather than excuses!

 

 

[Exactice808]

> @copperjeff said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > @copperjeff, @jut111 , @glk , Second question.

> > Separate discussion. What is actually wrong with my Practice swing from the other thread?

> > positioning wise I feel that my practice swing is in "Better" positions than my Real swing?

> > I again understand the face open at impact.. Thats evident. But if the timing and sequence position wise seem normal. isnt the final piece of squaring the clubs either by hand or more body rotation?

> >

> > What I am getting at is, is the practice swing positions correct or is it wrong as well? but just not as horribly wrong as the real swing??

> >

> > I dont understand what is actually wrong with my practice swings, I can see whats wrong with my real swing.. what I am ultimately trying to get at with my question.

>

> @Exactice808 Really good question.

>

> A lot of people won't ask these types of questions to have a better understanding of his/her swing. Changing your understanding of your swing can be a very big element to actually changing your swing.

>

> To answer your question, in your practice swing, setting the open clubface aside, yes your rhythm and sequencing are pretty good. Yes you get the shaft in a nice looking "position" on the downswing. The problem is we are talking about positions versus the actual dynamic motion of your swing. We can't just insert a square clubface into the equation and solve everything. Take a look at your practice swing where the club shaft is along your forearm. The club face is wide open at this point. Your options to close it are to bow the left wrist or roll over the wrists/forearms, or cast the club out past the target line (options 2 and 3 basically being one in the same). If you look at your wrists at this point, your right wrist is already extended near to the limits of ROM. (at least for the average person) You literally can't just close the face. (also its possible that while looking at the video of your practice swing you might have whiffed had a ball been there)

>

>

> Let me know if you have other questions, I'm happy to help

>

>

>

 

I think I had one of those moments LOL... you know that I thought I have been working on fixes for awhile but 7 years on this site and I am doing the EXACT same stuff I was doing from day one.... Its come full circle. I surely am PLAYING better golf than I was 7 years ago... But I am not play consistently........ I hope to under stand the cause and effect better so I can better address my faults... rather then just applying a change without why I needed to in the first place!

 

 

 

[Exactice808]

> @copperjeff said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > @copperjeff, @jut111 , @glk , Second question.

> > Separate discussion. What is actually wrong with my Practice swing from the other thread?

> > positioning wise I feel that my practice swing is in "Better" positions than my Real swing?

> > I again understand the face open at impact.. Thats evident. But if the timing and sequence position wise seem normal. isnt the final piece of squaring the clubs either by hand or more body rotation?

> >

> > What I am getting at is, is the practice swing position

>

> @Exactice808 Really good question.

>

> A lot of people won't ask these types of questions to have a better understanding of his/her swing. Changing your understanding of your swing can be a very big element to actually changing your swing.

>

> To answer your question, in your practice swing, setting the open clubface aside, yes your rhythm and sequencing are pretty good. Yes you get the shaft in a nice looking "position" on the downswing. The problem is we are talking about positions versus the actual dynamic motion of your swing. We can't just insert a square clubface into the equation and solve everything. Take a look at your practice swing where the club shaft is along your forearm. The club face is wide open at this point. Your options to close it are to bow the left wrist or roll over the wrists/forearms, or cast the club out past the target line (options 2 and 3 basically being one in the same). If you look at your wrists at this point, your right wrist is already extended near to the limits of ROM. (at least for the average person) You literally can't just close the face. (also its possible that while looking at the video of your practice swing you might have whiffed had a ball been there)

>

>

> Let me know if you have other questions, I'm happy to help

>

I do have more questions! Sorry!!! so bear with me. I really hope I am not trying to argue a dead point BUT understand it.

 

I am not trying to mimic a pro, but to obtain a quality swing, MOST pro's have a simlar impact position and likely due to mechanics.

Things I assume to understand,

Right arm under swing plane,

Right should lower,

right elbow bent pre impact,

Spine angle.

 

ALL things I lack in my actual swing, but have in my practice swing. YET everyone has said that even my practice swing is wrong. (Again excuse my ignorance, but if its a matter of squaring the face, would a stronger grip or bowed wrist, or if you look at my take away video I actually rotate open my club face on the takeaway, if I negated this on the takeaway, the face would be more close at the top and transition.

 

If my Practice swing is wrong and out side of the open faced near impact (which by the side by side as well TW & rickie have open faces pre impact SURELY not as open as mine but open?

 

HOW am I to imagine a correct swing or implement a correct swing? Im just so confused, As I assume we want to obtain optimal impact positions? these basics are all similar as I noted above? There is something inherent that is happening that I dont understand?

 

 

 

 

[glk]

Which one is the practice and the real?

These positions are practically identical - standing up without much spine angle at all, wide open club face.

You stand up and flip cause you have a steep shaft in the downswing and a wide open club face - as noted, your brain is doing everything it can to get you to hit the ball.

In your practice swing there is no ball to hit so the brain doesn't care and as noted if there was a ball there a good chance you swing right over the top of it -how could that possibly be better!

 

 

[copperjeff]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @copperjeff said:

> > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > @copperjeff, @jut111 , @glk , Second question.

> > > Separate discussion. What is actually wrong with my Practice swing from the other thread?

> > > positioning wise I feel that my practice swing is in "Better" positions than my Real swing?

> > > I again understand the face open at impact.. Thats evident. But if the timing and sequence position wise seem normal. isnt the final piece of squaring the clubs either by hand or more body rotation?

> > >

> > > What I am getting at is, is the practice swing position

> >

> > @Exactice808 Really good question.

> >

> > A lot of people won't ask these types of questions to have a better understanding of his/her swing. Changing your understanding of your swing can be a very big element to actually changing your swing.

> >

> > To answer your question, in your practice swing, setting the open clubface aside, yes your rhythm and sequencing are pretty good. Yes you get the shaft in a nice looking "position" on the downswing. The problem is we are talking about positions versus the actual dynamic motion of your swing. We can't just insert a square clubface into the equation and solve everything. Take a look at your practice swing where the club shaft is along your forearm. The club face is wide open at this point. Your options to close it are to bow the left wrist or roll over the wrists/forearms, or cast the club out past the target line (options 2 and 3 basically being one in the same). If you look at your wrists at this point, your right wrist is already extended near to the limits of ROM. (at least for the average person) You literally can't just close the face. (also its possible that while looking at the video of your practice swing you might have whiffed had a ball been there)

> >

> >

> > Let me know if you have other questions, I'm happy to help

> >

> I do have more questions! Sorry!!! so bear with me. I really hope I am not trying to argue a dead point BUT understand it.

>

>

> I am not trying to mimic a pro, but to obtain a quality swing, MOST pro's have a simlar impact position and likely due to mechanics.

> Things I assume to understand,

> Right arm under swing plane,

> Right should lower,

> right elbow bent pre impact,

> Spine angle.

>

> ALL things I lack in my actual swing, but have in my practice swing. YET everyone has said that even my practice swing is wrong. (Again excuse my ignorance, but if its a matter of squaring the face, would a stronger grip or bowed wrist, or if you look at my take away video I actually rotate open my club face on the takeaway, if I negated this on the takeaway, the face would be more close at the top and transition.

>

> If my Practice swing is wrong and out side of the open faced near impact (which by the side by side as well TW & rickie have open faces pre impact SURELY not as open as mine but open?

>

> HOW am I to imagine a correct swing or implement a correct swing? Im just so confused, As I assume we want to obtain optimal impact positions? these basics are all similar as I noted above? There is something inherent that is happening that I dont understand?

>

>

>

>

 

@Exactice808

 

The open club face is the most problematic thing in your swing right now. Comparing yourself to pros in still images can be difficult. Both TW and Rickie are viewed from different angles than you are. Also, their club face is going to be square to the path (within 2-3 degrees) In your practice swing, your clubface is probably 45 degrees open to the path.

 

Opening the club so much in the backswing is definitely an issue, hence the drill for the more vertical wrist set.

[Nard_S]

Back swing shallower than down swing, getting too laid off w/ arm over run and false "depth". Nowhere to go but OTT. More vertical lift in arms to torso w/help of better forearm rotations are needed. See Arm/Swing Illusion thread.

A sense of retention and regaining & increasing body angles is needed (see Tommy Fleetwood or Rory) but the trigger for all that has to change too. Your arm/hand dominant and need to go shoulder/torso dominant and get right shoulder play a more prominent role, then you can unload all your arm speed at right point and get body more open at impact. The outcome of "turning the corner swinging more left" is telling that things are going in right direction.

 

We're talking lots of reps and eating the elephant one bite at a time, but I was worse in every way. Monte or Dan would do you great, wish I went to them would have saved me a lot of wasted effort.

[Pepperturbo]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > IMO - If you're not squaring the face angle at impact, dispersion, for my expectations is probably too high. I see far too often people swinging out of their shoes on every hole as opposed to choosing the proper club off the tee. Also, it may be their driver isn't set up right them and or they're trying too hard to maximize distance, at any cost but then don't have the next shot in the bag from junk. Example, recently on the first tee, facing a dog-leg right Par 5, I chose 2 iron to reach the turn. My three playing partners each chose driver. Two hit it through the dog-leg and the other bit off more than he could chew over the inside dog-leg costing him a ball. I took Par, and one took 7 the other two took 8's. The result was a poor choice in a club, some lack of self-control and not having the next shot in the bag. They could have bogeyed the hole.

> >

> > I recently took back TS2 10.5 on account trajectory was too high and got a 9.5. Threw the OEM shaft in a barrel and when with my two after-market shafts options. Project X 6C12 tour issue is for when I am feeling really strong and want to swing as fast as possible. The other listed in my Sig "Fujikura Fuel Tour Spec 60" is my trustworthy low-dispersion fairway finder.

>

> I’ve always heard this from playing partners. But it’s a misnomer because they older and I am just longer relative to them.

>

> Anyways. Yeah slowing down is a mess. And I still have a gear if I wanted but don’t because that’s the double edge sword. Speeding up is a mess and slowing down is a mess. But I guess what I think is normal is a mess. Lol.

>

> Something in regards to transition or tempo or something is off. Causing issues. Let me get a recent video and see what might be going down.

>

>

 

Older age and distance have nothing to do with hitting the ball poorly. It's grooved mechanics that hit the ball with the sweet spot. You mention speeding up and slowing down as if they are two ends of a spectrum, not the case. There is NO normal to measure up to. Normal is what you're comfortable with when your equipment and mechanics properly match up to impact the ball. My normal transition and tempo are faster than most others, reason at my age I still play stiff tip tour shafts and hit the ball 240+ carry and almost 70 years old.

[Krt22]

Flat turn, lots of arm over run, club wide open at P6, EE/Stall/Flip as a result. Not at all the driver's fault, would also recommend sending the videos over to Monte or Dan

[jjmurry]

Anybody have any experience increasing driver accuracy via lowering angle of attack?

For reference - on trackman my AoA is about 3-4* up with my driver set to 7.5*. I have plenty of speed (110-112 mph) and was recently casually mentioned to that I could consider lowering AoA to 1-2*. Would it be prudent to reset my driver to 9* or so if doing this? I've tried it at the range with the feeling of staying down through the ball longer, but it resulted in quite a few toe hooks. Does anyone have any feels or drills to work on this?

 

Thanks!

[SNIPERBBB]

> @jjmurry said:

> Anybody have any experience increasing driver accuracy via lowering angle of attack?

> For reference - on trackman my AoA is about 3-4* up with my driver set to 7.5*. I have plenty of speed (110-112 mph) and was recently casually mentioned to that I could consider lowering AoA to 1-2*. Would it be prudent to reset my driver to 9* or so if doing this? I've tried it at the range with the feeling of staying down through the ball longer, but it resulted in quite a few toe hooks. Does anyone have any feels or drills to work on this?

>

> Thanks!

 

Lower the AoA, generally it's easier to control the driver. YMMV.

[jjmurry]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @jjmurry said:

> > Anybody have any experience increasing driver accuracy via lowering angle of attack?

> > For reference - on trackman my AoA is about 3-4* up with my driver set to 7.5*. I have plenty of speed (110-112 mph) and was recently casually mentioned to that I could consider lowering AoA to 1-2*. Would it be prudent to reset my driver to 9* or so if doing this? I've tried it at the range with the feeling of staying down through the ball longer, but it resulted in quite a few toe hooks. Does anyone have any feels or drills to work on this?

> >

> > Thanks!

>

> Lower the AoA, generally it's easier to control the driver. YMMV.

 

Would you suggest increasing loft on the driver from 7.5* to offset the decrease in dynamic loft? From your signature it looks like you dont - do you notice your drives going too low?

[Exactice808]

> @glk said:

> Which one is the practice and the real?

> These positions are practically identical - standing up without much spine angle at all, wide open club face.

> You stand up and flip cause you have a steep shaft in the downswing and a wide open club face - as noted, your brain is doing everything it can to get you to hit the ball.

> In your practice swing there is no ball to hit so the brain doesn't care and as noted if there was a ball there a good chance you swing right over the top of it -how could that possibly be better!

>

>

>

 

Hey GLK@ Thanks for the response. so Only I can answer the question I guess since I know the follow on and the flaw.

Top picture is practice swing, Bottom picture is real swing, BY the picture BOTH faces are wide open, the trail of photos though "I assumed" tell the greater story? **_BUT now I am starting to BETTER understand what you guys mean._** Thank you! With that let me try. The "at the top" still picture is a good "STOPPING" position,

 

Practice swing

Real swing

 

The middle of Swing

As you pointed (Thanks btw I know how much a pain it is to get stills so I appreciate your effort and response) , while my spine angle tilt is minimal in both and as assumed I am standing more upright in my practice swing than my real swing so surely that is why my practice swing seems like I am lacking spine angle.

 

Near impact

Practice

Real

 

All that is IMPORTANT is the "Real" swing right..... BUT as you stated mid swing/down swing.... is all similar "especially with the club face open on the down swing" THAT, is the reason why I HAVE to Early extend and flip to get the face close right?.... That means something in the down swing "At the top of the back swing "Looks" Good and pre impact "LOOKS" good artificially, but I would never be able to square the face at impact?

 

So I know I may be getting ahead of myself from copperjeff..... But if THE TOP of my swing in the practice is where I should be "stopping" what happens next? Again thank you I am trying to understand the "whole" process better rather than assume or just apply a change. It seems I have applied many changes but revert back because I dont understand the cause and effect.

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

> @jjmurry said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > @jjmurry said:

> > > Anybody have any experience increasing driver accuracy via lowering angle of attack?

> > > For reference - on trackman my AoA is about 3-4* up with my driver set to 7.5*. I have plenty of speed (110-112 mph) and was recently casually mentioned to that I could consider lowering AoA to 1-2*. Would it be prudent to reset my driver to 9* or so if doing this? I've tried it at the range with the feeling of staying down through the ball longer, but it resulted in quite a few toe hooks. Does anyone have any feels or drills to work on this?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> >

> > Lower the AoA, generally it's easier to control the driver. YMMV.

>

> Would you suggest increasing loft on the driver from 7.5* to offset the decrease in dynamic loft? From your signature it looks like you dont - do you notice your drives going too low?

 

> @jjmurry said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > @jjmurry said:

> > > Anybody have any experience increasing driver accuracy via lowering angle of attack?

> > > For reference - on trackman my AoA is about 3-4* up with my driver set to 7.5*. I have plenty of speed (110-112 mph) and was recently casually mentioned to that I could consider lowering AoA to 1-2*. Would it be prudent to reset my driver to 9* or so if doing this? I've tried it at the range with the feeling of staying down through the ball longer, but it resulted in quite a few toe hooks. Does anyone have any feels or drills to work on this?

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> >

> > Lower the AoA, generally it's easier to control the driver. YMMV.

>

> Would you suggest increasing loft on the driver from 7.5* to offset the decrease in dynamic loft? From your signature it looks like you dont - do you notice your drives going too low?

 

Not necessarily but odds are you will have to jump it up a bit. You'll have to practice to see if it works out not.

[Exactice808]

> @copperjeff said:

 

> @Exactice808

>

> The open club face is the most problematic thing in your swing right now. Comparing yourself to pros in still images can be difficult. Both TW and Rickie are viewed from different angles than you are. Also, their club face is going to be square to the path (within 2-3 degrees) In your practice swing, your clubface is probably 45 degrees open to the path.

>

> Opening the club so much in the backswing is definitely an issue, hence the drill for the more vertical wrist set.

 

GOTCHA!!!!! Its starting to click! You an @glk are starting to make my brain understand what is going on @jut111 as well made the point, but I had not grasp it.

 

The Open club face in the whole swing regardless of the good positioning by visual is meaningless. Because once the down swing starts with the open face, it has to do all the crazy stuff that I do. SO if I can think about the face on the down swing (not literally) but understand that cause and effect I can better improve the over all swing? (Artificially bowing or shutting the face would kill the consistency unless I had very high hand I coordination like say Mcilroy, which I grossly lack LOL)

 

So again I need to get everything proper and in motion first (that means the club face). REALLY all something is clicking! Thank you, PLEASE keep it coming as this is HUGE in my opinion. Something I think I was missing for a long time!

[glk]

Take that lesson and if you want to learn more about the swing - cause/effect, steeps/shallows - then buy Tyler Ferrell's Stock Tour Swing book.