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Why Cant I develop Accuracy in my Driver?


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> @Exactice808 said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > Back swing shallower than down swing, getting too laid off w/ arm over run and false "depth". Nowhere to go but OTT. More vertical lift in arms to torso w/help of better forearm rotations are needed. See Arm/Swing Illusion thread.

> > A sense of retention and regaining & increasing body angles is needed (see Tommy Fleetwood or Rory) but the trigger for all that has to change too. Your arm/hand dominant and need to go shoulder/torso dominant and get right shoulder play a more prominent role, then you can unload all your arm speed at right point and get body more open at impact. The outcome of "turning the corner swinging more left" is telling that things are going in right direction.

> >

> > We're talking lots of reps and eating the elephant one bite at a time, but I was worse in every way. Monte or Dan would do you great, wish I went to them would have saved me a lot of wasted effort.

>

> Again So sorry as I think I am jumping too far ahead.... But if you can disect this "one bite of the elephant at a time"

There's a lot on the plate, it won't get done in 6 weeks.

 

> back swing shallower than down swing, so if I also got more vertical in my take away?

> "Arm over run" Sorry you guys typed this like 5 times and I still dont quite understand that, what does this mean?

> "Better forearm rotation"? When in the back swing, or the down swing? (checking the arm swing illusion thread)

>

"Arm over run", arms still going back but shoulder/torso has stopped turning.

Been very positive move for me to focus on getting right shoulder back & deep pointing at target and firing IT right back at the ball. Oddly this takes getting the left shoulder and side correct too.

Found that rotating right forearm CCW on back swing keeps things a bit more vertical on arm movement. You seem to be doing the opposite, as I used to. On right I now go full CCW on back, then full CW coming down. Left forearm, freely rotates CW from P2 up, then goes CCW in down. I'm starting to appreciate that left arm and side in 1st half of down swing is huge, it is Stage I, right side is Stage II. Monte talks of throwing a Frisbee w/left arm, this is spot on.

> Yups surely understand the body angles. Just by body rejects input LOL.

> The right should to me seems like another key. because it doesnt go down it goes shallow to me seems like a major body movement that is stuck?

>

> If you dont mind throwing out thoughts =)

It is a huge thing to get the shoulder plane in a proper place of depth and angle, to get good tilt of spine (left tilt going back, right tilt coming down).....to hold good angles and to regain and INCREASE them so to allow shoulders->arm->hands-> club to fire thru a rather small window of goodness. The visual I use is Hogan's sheet of glass laying on the shoulders. All the action and power happens under there. Your body is reacting to impulse to fire with the hands via the "yank the handle" thing. Swing steep, body stands up, get body more crunched you can then swing shallow. My swing was conditioned to be too body passive and too arm centric. Yours looks familiar. So body had to ascend to Boss status. This took me to spend lots of time on joints from knees to shoulder sockets to create the space abut as important hone the firing the of muscle groups that get all this done. It's a big elephant to eat but the filet is getting shoulder behavior correct. It's the linch pin to it all. Body has to answer to it and the arms will do the right thing at the right time if things are in order.

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Updates!!!!! Thoughts.....

Let me be clear.... this doesnt mean its fixed this just means something is clicking thats it....

 

1) Thanks for the person that suggested @glk Instagram video of the stick I think that was @copperjeff? That was easier to visualize and try. ( I think I have watched it like 50 times to understand the sequence and purpose)

2) The actual move, keeping the stick running down my leg REALLY feels like an "inside" take away. Two opposing feelings that I need to test on the actual range but at home I have 2 weird feelings. With the shaft more vertical and further behind me, yet much less arm over run, there are 2 things I can do.

2a) Start with my hands. but once I do that I feel the club coming over the top, since the club is so vertical, it only moves that way, BUT the face seems closed or more square,

2b) Start with my shoulders, and leave the hands alone. The shaft shallows better. BUT this opens the club face, because the shaft lays down naturally.

 

3) Moving in the down swing..... LOTS more weird thoughts start to pop up THIS WILL GO ON A SUPER TANGENT, so if you dont want to join me on this conversation please just ignore this.

 

understanding that when you actually contact the ball, there should be angles between the club and the wrist, the full release or extension is well past the moment of contact. BUT as we can see (and common with casting/flipping) the full extension happens at the ball). too which my real swing shows I have let go all the angles at the moment of contact.

 

OK moving on.

3a) with the shaft vertical, and on the down swing, lag happens naturally, shoulders keep turning. right shoulder drops, NOW here is the SCARY part that I GET, but I am actually afraid to try/see what happens. the club head is nearing the ground the right shoulder is very deep and under plane (as best as I can describe) IT almost feels like the club is going 2"-5" into the ground. I NEED to fight every NATURAL urge to stand up to avoid this... right? I actually have to trust that the club will contact the ball ever so slightly, while rotating and staying in "Spine angle tilt" and the release will happen well past my left/front leg. for years, I have put putting the full release at the ball, but in reality, the full release is about 1ft in front of my left leg right?

 

if my words suck let me try with pictures.

What really happens - club fully released at impact? (casted whatever you call it_) All angles gone, spine, hands hips legs whatevers lol

 

vkn6j0hzrde9.png

 

What should happen,

tga81ghnj4pp.png

Out side of club face for a moment, if WE cut the top half of my body (waist up)... Tilted it towards the ball to create better angles (this greater tilt would then close the face as well?, HELD THIS exact position, but rotated the whole shoulder, trunk, hand, arms toward the ball, that would "essentially" be the correct impact position right??

 

4) Some how mentally, like everyone prior stated, when I put the ball their Im hitting the ball. Does anyone have a better mental thought? Sweeping the ball? I need to overcome this fear that the shaft is going 6" into the ground when I get my right should so deep rather than flat? I need to fight the urge to stand up in the shot? OR is this just something that is going to come in time. I hate to say this feel so unnatural, but I guess I have had so much bad habits before....it WILL feel extremely foreign and unnatural?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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Start the backswing with the stick by moving the left shoulder down - you need side bend early to keep the stick to your side - load your core and right glute then start the downswing by a slight shift left and use your core/ glute, ie lower body which you have to load to use. No arms pull down or shoulder spin please. Need to learn the motorcycle move. Do slow swings with the alignment stick stuck into the grip - can hit balls at the range doing this but do it slowly otherwise you'll be bruised on your side from the stick hitting you - plus of the stick drill is it doesn't allow you to flip since if you flip you'll hit yourself at impact. Yes it will feel very different.

 

Take that lesson. Get Tyler Ferrell’s book - it is going to educate your more than post here will - take his 7 day free trail of his site - tons of videos broken down by swing phase, drill, concept, beginner, advanced, etc .

 

Here's a drill that can give you a sense of how the body lead/arms connect (mainly the trail arm) and the downswing pivot will bring the arms down to the delivery position where you can pour on the gas - get a hula hoop. Pull it around your body on the downswing like first photo - second photos shows pulling arms down so hoop hits your neck. Some feel it as pulling an arrow out of a quiver in the downswing, club should feel like it is behind you.

u7dsmk1wyysp.pngoymx8f5cda3u.png

 

 

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
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I still think you are still too hung up on what things should look like instead of fixing what is clearly the issue and seeing how it impacts the ball flight. I would also say learning to get over what feels weird/unnatural/bad is one of the toughest obstacles in golf. But if it didn't feel weird then that means you aren't actually changing anything and thus not improving. But yes, being super flat and steepening your shoulder plane will make you feel like you are going to drive the club into the ground.

 

I would start with this, and get an idea of what things should look like with the take away, left arm parallel, at the top, and early transition. If you build your swing in that sequence impact will largely take care of itself.

 

https://rebelliongolf.com/videos/efficient-swing/

 

 

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> @glk said:

> Start the backswing with the stick by moving the left shoulder down - you need side bend early to keep the stick to your side - load your core and right glute then start the downswing by a slight shift left and use your core/ glute, ie lower body which you have to load to use. No arms pull down or shoulder spin please. Need to learn the motorcycle move. Do slow swings with the alignment stick stuck into the grip - can hit balls at the range doing this but do it slowly otherwise you'll be bruised on your side from the stick hitting you - plus of the stick drill is it doesn't allow you to flip since if you flip you'll hit yourself at impact. Yes it will feel very different.

>

> Take that lesson. Get Tyler Ferrell’s book - it is going to educate your more than post here will - take his 7 day free trail of his site - tons of videos broken down by swing phase, drill, concept, beginner, advanced, etc .

>

> Here's a drill that can give you a sense of how the body lead/arms connect (mainly the trail arm) and the downswing pivot will bring the arms down to the delivery position where you can pour on the gas - get a hula hoop. Pull it around your body on the downswing like first photo - second photos shows pulling arms down so hoop hits your neck. Some feel it as pulling an arrow out of a quiver in the downswing.

> u7dsmk1wyysp.pngoymx8f5cda3u.png

>

>

 

yes started to get that feeling, I have "drive way markers" so I think they are a little longer than the actual alignment sticks so I know what you mean about whacking yourself. I have been doing it VERY slowly, to get the feeling. I do NOT flex my hands or wrist because if I do the stick comes of the left leg, so I hold it and rotate the core like you said. (edifying) essentially it feels like I am taking it "WAY inside" but in reality since the hands are more vertical its not its just the rotation feels more like I am pulling inside.

 

I have not gone to the range yet ... not sure if I really want to right now, as it is so uncomfortable or unnatural. I might hurt someone or myself, until I can either understand it better or my body better responds to the change. Im super patient at this point I am not striving to be a tour pro. So I have not due date to figure this out. If it take me 10 years so be it... But I have a lot of correcting before I can think that I got it to work. I was looking up another thread where you brought up the "motorcycle" move so I am watching that as we speak..... need to understand it though so again... another step... not there yet.... as copperjeff stated I need to at least get the back swing going first......

 

 

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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> @Krt22 said:

> I still think you are still too hung up on what things should look like instead of fixing what is clearly the issue and seeing how it impacts the ball flight. **_I would also say learning to get over what feels weird/unnatural/bad is one of the toughest obstacles in golf._** But if it didn't feel weird then that means you aren't actually changing anything and thus not improving. But yes, being super flat and steepening your shoulder plane will make you feel like you are going to drive the club into the ground.

>

> I would start with this, and get an idea of what things should look like with the take away, left arm parallel, at the top, and early transition. If you build your swing in that sequence impact will largely take care of itself.

>

> https://rebelliongolf.com/videos/efficient-swing/

>

>

Absolutely! This is why I think I am edifying why it feels so weird... I may be like you said hung up.... but I think its a cause and effect, just the simple drill is already affecting me.... its already forcing me to move in a position I never really have. of course Im not going to stop at the just the back swing, Im going to turn thus things feel really weird as well and sensations kick in. At this point Im a just asking question to further expand the thought?

 

Anyways...will check out the link and move from there, I think thats the monte video LOL!.... let me check it out!

 

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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> @Exactice808 said:

> Updates!!!!! Thoughts.....

> Let me be clear.... this doesnt mean its fixed this just means something is clicking thats it....

>

> 1) Thanks for the person that suggested @glk Instagram video of the stick I think that was @copperjeff? That was easier to visualize and try. ( I think I have watched it like 50 times to understand the sequence and purpose)

> 2) The actual move, keeping the stick running down my leg REALLY feels like an "inside" take away. Two opposing feelings that I need to test on the actual range but at home I have 2 weird feelings. With the shaft more vertical and further behind me, yet much less arm over run, there are 2 things I can do.

> 2a) Start with my hands. but once I do that I feel the club coming over the top, since the club is so vertical, it only moves that way, BUT the face seems closed or more square,

> 2b) Start with my shoulders, and leave the hands alone. The shaft shallows better. BUT this opens the club face, because the shaft lays down naturally.

>

> 3) Moving in the down swing..... LOTS more weird thoughts start to pop up THIS WILL GO ON A SUPER TANGENT, so if you dont want to join me on this conversation please just ignore this.

>

> understanding that when you actually contact the ball, there should be angles between the club and the wrist, the full release or extension is well past the moment of contact. BUT as we can see (and common with casting/flipping) the full extension happens at the ball). too which my real swing shows I have let go all the angles at the moment of contact.

>

> OK moving on.

> 3a) with the shaft vertical, and on the down swing, lag happens naturally, shoulders keep turning. right shoulder drops, NOW here is the SCARY part that I GET, but I am actually afraid to try/see what happens. the club head is nearing the ground the right shoulder is very deep and under plane (as best as I can describe) IT almost feels like the club is going 2"-5" into the ground. I NEED to fight every NATURAL urge to stand up to avoid this... right? I actually have to trust that the club will contact the ball ever so slightly, while rotating and staying in "Spine angle tilt" and the release will happen well past my left/front leg. for years, I have put putting the full release at the ball, but in reality, the full release is about 1ft in front of my left leg right?

>

> if my words suck let me try with pictures.

> What really happens - club fully released at impact? (casted whatever you call it_) All angles gone, spine, hands hips legs whatevers lol

>

> vkn6j0hzrde9.png

>

> What should happen,

> tga81ghnj4pp.png

> Out side of club face for a moment, if WE cut the top half of my body (waist up)... Tilted it towards the ball to create better angles (this greater tilt would then close the face as well?, HELD THIS exact position, but rotated the whole shoulder, trunk, hand, arms toward the ball, that would "essentially" be the correct impact position right??

>

> 4) Some how mentally, like everyone prior stated, when I put the ball their Im hitting the ball. Does anyone have a better mental thought? Sweeping the ball? I need to overcome this fear that the shaft is going 6" into the ground when I get my right should so deep rather than flat? I need to fight the urge to stand up in the shot? OR is this just something that is going to come in time. I hate to say this feel so unnatural, but I guess I have had so much bad habits before....it WILL feel extremely foreign and unnatural?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

@Exactice808

You've clearly been doing some thinking and experimenting! Love it! So lets unpack this a bit.......

 

Point 2) ..... you feel as though the takeaway is way more inside. In your "normal" swing, your hands move a bit away from you as you roll the clubhead inside. Ideally, the hands are moved inside via the pivot. So, no surprise there. Now, the shaft should not actually be "behind you" but more in front of your chest. It'd be great to see some video of you trying the drill to make sure you've got it.

 

2)a/b) Yes, pulling down with the hands will likely cause shaft to tip out early and lead to an OTT swing. And yes, shallowing the shaft is going to open the face. Many people need to consciously (at first) add a bowing of the left wrist/extending of the right wrist during transition to counteract the opening.

 

3) yes, at impact there will still be some angles retained. However, remember we are talking a dynamic motion not static positions. Through impact, many different angles are releasing, with full extension coming well past impact

 

3a) important bit about the right shoulder..... it shouldn't drop straight down from the top, but should move in a combination of down, towards the target line, and towards the target.... basically rotating back around. Having said that, YES the right shoulder will be closer to the ball than where you were before. Therefore, yes some angles NEED to be in the swing still in order to not bury the club a foot behind the ball. It is an adjustment, and you likely will hit it very fat the first few times. DON'T SWING AT ANYTHING NEAR FULL SPEED!! .... Swing your 7iron at a speed to hit the ball half as far as you normally would (as in you normally hit it 150, make a swing to hit it 75 yards)

 

 

4) In your "old" swing, you had to stand up and throw the angles to hit the ball. You are still hitting the ball, just in a new and different way :-) So YES it will feel all kinds of different and awkward, and probably awful. GOOD!!! If it doesn't feel unnatural (to start) then you didn't change a swing. Remember, swinging in a way that felt natural gave you the swing you currently have.

Golfing Ginger
So glad I picked an outside activity...

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> @copperjeff said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > Updates!!!!! Thoughts.....

> > Let me be clear.... this doesnt mean its fixed this just means something is clicking thats it....

> >

> > 1) Thanks for the person that suggested @glk Instagram video of the stick I think that was @copperjeff? That was easier to visualize and try. ( I think I have watched it like 50 times to understand the sequence and purpose)

> > 2) The actual move, keeping the stick running down my leg REALLY feels like an "inside" take away. Two opposing feelings that I need to test on the actual range but at home I have 2 weird feelings. With the shaft more vertical and further behind me, yet much less arm over run, there are 2 things I can do.

> > 2a) Start with my hands. but once I do that I feel the club coming over the top, since the club is so vertical, it only moves that way, BUT the face seems closed or more square,

> > 2b) Start with my shoulders, and leave the hands alone. The shaft shallows better. BUT this opens the club face, because the shaft lays down naturally.

> >

> > 3) Moving in the down swing..... LOTS more weird thoughts start to pop up THIS WILL GO ON A SUPER TANGENT, so if you dont want to join me on this conversation please just ignore this.

> >

> > understanding that when you actually contact the ball, there should be angles between the club and the wrist, the full release or extension is well past the moment of contact. BUT as we can see (and common with casting/flipping) the full extension happens at the ball). too which my real swing shows I have let go all the angles at the moment of contact.

> >

> > OK moving on.

> > 3a) with the shaft vertical, and on the down swing, lag happens naturally, shoulders keep turning. right shoulder drops, NOW here is the SCARY part that I GET, but I am actually afraid to try/see what happens. the club head is nearing the ground the right shoulder is very deep and under plane (as best as I can describe) IT almost feels like the club is going 2"-5" into the ground. I NEED to fight every NATURAL urge to stand up to avoid this... right? I actually have to trust that the club will contact the ball ever so slightly, while rotating and staying in "Spine angle tilt" and the release will happen well past my left/front leg. for years, I have put putting the full release at the ball, but in reality, the full release is about 1ft in front of my left leg right?

> >

> > if my words suck let me try with pictures.

> > What really happens - club fully released at impact? (casted whatever you call it_) All angles gone, spine, hands hips legs whatevers lol

> >

> > vkn6j0hzrde9.png

> >

> > What should happen,

> > tga81ghnj4pp.png

> > Out side of club face for a moment, if WE cut the top half of my body (waist up)... Tilted it towards the ball to create better angles (this greater tilt would then close the face as well?, HELD THIS exact position, but rotated the whole shoulder, trunk, hand, arms toward the ball, that would "essentially" be the correct impact position right??

> >

> > 4) Some how mentally, like everyone prior stated, when I put the ball their Im hitting the ball. Does anyone have a better mental thought? Sweeping the ball? I need to overcome this fear that the shaft is going 6" into the ground when I get my right should so deep rather than flat? I need to fight the urge to stand up in the shot? OR is this just something that is going to come in time. I hate to say this feel so unnatural, but I guess I have had so much bad habits before....it WILL feel extremely foreign and unnatural?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> @Exactice808

> You've clearly been doing some thinking and experimenting! Love it! So lets unpack this a bit.......

>

> Point 2) ..... you feel as though the takeaway is way more inside. In your "normal" swing, your hands move a bit away from you as you roll the clubhead inside. Ideally, the hands are moved inside via the pivot. So, no surprise there. Now, the shaft should not actually be "behind you" but more in front of your chest. It'd be great to see some video of you trying the drill to make sure you've got it.

>

> 2)a/b) Yes, pulling down with the hands will likely cause shaft to tip out early and lead to an OTT swing. And yes, shallowing the shaft is going to open the face. Many people need to consciously (at first) add a bowing of the left wrist/extending of the right wrist during transition to counteract the opening.

>

> 3) yes, at impact there will still be some angles retained. However, remember we are talking a dynamic motion not static positions. Through impact, many different angles are releasing, with full extension coming well past impact

>

> 3a) important bit about the right shoulder..... it shouldn't drop straight down from the top, but should move in a combination of down, towards the target line, and towards the target.... basically rotating back around. Having said that, YES the right shoulder will be closer to the ball than where you were before. Therefore, yes some angles NEED to be in the swing still in order to not bury the club a foot behind the ball. It is an adjustment, and you likely will hit it very fat the first few times. DON'T SWING AT ANYTHING NEAR FULL SPEED!! .... Swing your 7iron at a speed to hit the ball half as far as you normally would (as in you normally hit it 150, make a swing to hit it 75 yards)

>

>

> 4) In your "old" swing, you had to stand up and throw the angles to hit the ball. You are still hitting the ball, just in a new and different way :-) So YES it will feel all kinds of different and awkward, and probably awful. GOOD!!! If it doesn't feel unnatural (to start) then you didn't change a swing. Remember, swinging in a way that felt natural gave you the swing you currently have.

 

Sorry actually let me correct YES, The turning feels like I am more inside but since the shaft is more vertical its actually in the same place... or rather in the middle of my chest... it just feel MORE turn but less are over run. Funny how that alignment stick made the sensation stick pretty quick.

 

I am scared to post any more videos!!!! I caught so much rash from people LOL!........ in time HAHA!

 

I surely wont do full speed I am not even using a full size club, I have a club I cut down to swing in a confined space, As GLK said, really slow deliberate...as I did whack my ribs a couple times trying to swing faster with the alignment stick LOL!

 

Yes the down swing is just natural rotation maintaining the spine angle, so rotates down and around not a drop straight down, sorry not descriptive enough. Maybe I should take specifics to PM after this LOL.

 

 

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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> @buckeyefl said:

> > @Mikey5e said:

> > Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe also in all your irons.

>

> What?

 

 

The op asked this question:

Why Cant I develop Accuracy in my Driver?

I answered rationally and believe it is the main reason why people struggle with their drivers off the tee. Even the professionals struggle with these clubs more so than every other club in the bag. Basically you have a fishing pole with a club head on the end of it, and it makes it difficult to control for everybody. People think because they can't hit 14 out of 14 Fairways there's something wrong with their driving, but everybody struggles to hit the fairway for the most part. I don't understand why you don't understand what I said? Probably just trying to start controversy I would imagine.

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> @Mikey5e said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe also in all your irons.

> >

> > What?

>

>

> The op asked this question:

> Why Cant I develop Accuracy in my Driver?

> I answered rationally and believe it is the main reason why people struggle with their drivers off the tee. Even the professionals struggle with these clubs more so than every other club in the bag. Basically you have a fishing pole with a club head on the end of it, and it makes it difficult to control for everybody. People think because they can't hit 14 out of 14 Fairways there's something wrong with their driving, but everybody struggles to hit the fairway for the most part. I don't understand why you don't understand what I said? Probably just trying to start controversy I would imagine.

 

No I imagine that your comment needs an explanation because it made zero sense.

 

Lets try again.

 

"Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe

also in all your irons."

 

What?

 

As far as the OP the reason he can't hit it straight is painfully obvious and has been covered repeatedly.

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Give you credit putting yourself out there, there's a wealth of info here and other places to get a bearing on going true north with your swing, Found it real help[full to study breakdowns of how Pro's swing. There's differing flavors but in the end they are all doing the same thing and those commonalities are rarely seen in significance with am swings. Good luck.

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> @buckeyefl said:

> > @Mikey5e said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe also in all your irons.

> > >

> > > What?

> >

> >

> > The op asked this question:

> > Why Cant I develop Accuracy in my Driver?

> > I answered rationally and believe it is the main reason why people struggle with their drivers off the tee. Even the professionals struggle with these clubs more so than every other club in the bag. Basically you have a fishing pole with a club head on the end of it, and it makes it difficult to control for everybody. People think because they can't hit 14 out of 14 Fairways there's something wrong with their driving, but everybody struggles to hit the fairway for the most part. I don't understand why you don't understand what I said? Probably just trying to start controversy I would imagine.

>

> No I imagine that your comment needs an explanation because it made zero sense.

>

> Lets try again.

>

> "Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe

> also in all your irons."

>

> What?

>

> As far as the OP the reason he can't hit it straight is painfully obvious and has been covered repeatedly.

The way I see it you're questioning of my comment really doesn't make sense, because I think it directly applies to all people who struggle with a driver. It was a simple point I made, but a very valid point as well. It's a shame that you cannot understand that, but I guess you just want to be right. So I'll say it, you're right!

 

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> @Mikey5e said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > > Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe also in all your irons.

> > > >

> > > > What?

> > >

> > >

> > > The op asked this question:

> > > Why Cant I develop Accuracy in my Driver?

> > > I answered rationally and believe it is the main reason why people struggle with their drivers off the tee. Even the professionals struggle with these clubs more so than every other club in the bag. Basically you have a fishing pole with a club head on the end of it, and it makes it difficult to control for everybody. People think because they can't hit 14 out of 14 Fairways there's something wrong with their driving, but everybody struggles to hit the fairway for the most part. I don't understand why you don't understand what I said? Probably just trying to start controversy I would imagine.

> >

> > No I imagine that your comment needs an explanation because it made zero sense.

> >

> > Lets try again.

> >

> > "Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe

> > also in all your irons."

> >

> > What?

> >

> > As far as the OP the reason he can't hit it straight is painfully obvious and has been covered repeatedly.

> The way I see it you're questioning of my comment really doesn't make sense, because I think it directly applies to all people who struggle with a driver. It was a simple point I made, but a very valid point as well. It's a shame that you cannot understand that, but I guess you just want to be right. So I'll say it, you're right!

>

 

The fact that I've questioned your ridiculous point twice and you still are, either purposely or through a high level of disconnect, ignoring your epic dumb comment says more about you not understanding how wrong you are than me trying to be right.

One more time, "Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe also in all your irons."

 

So again, "What?"

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Driver shafts are as stiff or stiffer than a wedge shaft assuming proper fitting. What makes drivers less accurate than wedges has nothing to do with with shafts. You can nearly get away with murder with a wedge as it concerns with accurai and dispersion because of the loft and spin.

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> @Mikey5e said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > > Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe also in all your irons.

> > > >

> > > > What?

> > >

> > >

> > > The op asked this question:

> > > Why Cant I develop Accuracy in my Driver?

> > > I answered rationally and believe it is the main reason why people struggle with their drivers off the tee. Even the professionals struggle with these clubs more so than every other club in the bag. Basically you have a fishing pole with a club head on the end of it, and it makes it difficult to control for everybody. People think because they can't hit 14 out of 14 Fairways there's something wrong with their driving, but everybody struggles to hit the fairway for the most part. I don't understand why you don't understand what I said? Probably just trying to start controversy I would imagine.

> >

> > No I imagine that your comment needs an explanation because it made zero sense.

> >

> > Lets try again.

> >

> > "Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe

> > also in all your irons."

> >

> > What?

> >

> > As far as the OP the reason he can't hit it straight is painfully obvious and has been covered repeatedly.

> The way I see it you're questioning of my comment really doesn't make sense, because I think it directly applies to all people who struggle with a driver. It was a simple point I made, but a very valid point as well. It's a shame that you cannot understand that, but I guess you just want to be right. So I'll say it, you're right!

>

 

Hey @Mikey5e , Unfortunately as the OP I dont understand nor agree with the assessment either. I think you may need to justify your thoughts better or explore your thoughts to better validate.

 

here is why. Shaft flex MAY be a variable but ultimately it is how we deliver the club head to the ball. AS we can see my swing is so far off the mark, I add in so many variable per swing. THIS has nothing to do with the shaft and all to do with the person swinging the club.

 

dont believe me? check this out.

[

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZdSXkcjIYU?t=348")

 

Jamie Sadlowski, 2 time long champ, with a ridiculously flexible shaft has no issues. Its consistency of swing to deliver the club head in a consistent position. As per my point that I CAN get the FACE to the ball pretty consistently per my face pattern. I fail to do so so with the face angle. WHY? Because of the Early extension the cast. I need to over compensate. ITS very evident. NO Shaft flex even a lead pipe would fix my issues off EE, lost of angles, etc etc.

 

Shaft flex may help FINE tuning consistency, but if the swing is flawed as I have display in a horrid fashion. NO shaft flex will save me, be it graphite, steel, or Harry Potter's magic wand...

 

 

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OK back to the Thread.....

Im going to do more displaying of Ignorance..... BUT I thought this might be more to share... I have taken portions to PM.... but thought maybe this might help some others and even maybe a "future instructor" on difficult students (Like myself)

 

So I have been trying to impliment, @glk and @copperjeff suggestion and I have. I have purely isolated the drill for now, NO I have NOT gone to the range and fighting every urge to hit a ball. I want to get this fixed.

 

OK BIG time issues. ITs not working per say. I mentally and physically am not responding to which way I think I should be. The stick drill is getting me into positions. I am getting more vertical I am getting more shoulder turn and no arm run off..... So I probably do about 20 slow reps at a time, then I do 20 no alignment sticks. rinse and repeat. I say after about 100 total reps, I then try to take full swing through and ALL hell has breaks loose, I get in to good upper positions, BUT the body fights back, It still feels over the top, MORE so if feels like I am swiping. the head of the club is no where near behind me it feels STILL like I am casting....

 

SOOOOOOO......... I had to think.....remember how I said I am stubborn I accept it but I am also one that needs non traditional methods as we can see all these years and advice has not changed a thing......

 

I reversed it and wanted to go from "IMPACT" position backwards and this is WHAT I found.

 

 

PART 2 next

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
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Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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Part 2,

Ok so i know I early extend and loose all angles. THIS is a possible trigger, for me and what I see

v0f2mbq93j91.png

Address positions hands are down

Impact, hands are way higher, angles are all lost.

 

What happens if I force my hands DOWN back into the address position, the rest of the body has to hold the angles. the ONLY reason the body is standing up is because I am moving my ARMS out to the ball to "HIT" the ball with my hands, not the club head.

 

So I have been discussing in PM with another member, Why my Chipping techniques seems to hold the angles better but my full swing doesn't thats when it clicked, Because I get my hands DOWN back to address position.... I was trying to figure from the top yesterday what was wrong or the feeling. I started to watch "birds eye view" of golfers and thats when it clicked

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=birdes+eye+view+golf

 

More specifically this video

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=PW-Ur1_KzdY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW-Ur1_KzdY "https://youtube.com/watch?v=PW-Ur1_KzdY")

 

The club head is impacting the ball outside of the hands....... BUT I am bring the club head inline with my hands.... flipping extending losing angles. BUT if have a feeling that the club head is HITTING the ball out side of my hands I have to maintain the angles or I would never touch the ball right?

 

Remember in the very first conversation, you all said once I put the ball there. IN my mind I am trying to hit the ball. I hear you but I didnt process that thought. I personally am NOT trying to hit the ball. the "CLUB" head has to hit the ball. WHEN I try to personally hit the ball and the club head is moving all over the play in my back swing down swing etc etc. I HAVE TO ADJUST (compensate etc) to get the club head to the ball.

 

If I stop THIS get the body in a single set position I NEVER have to adjust... the club head hits the ball because the body is in the same position everytime? I dont have to move anything or compensate?

 

SO SORRY to @glk @copperjeff please stop me if I am wrong.... or bear with me as again I learn differently. If I reversed and started from impact, and backwards to the top of the swing? Your drill works better, because I am forcing my HANDS BACK down to address position. Rather then guessing "AFTER" I get to a proper takeaway/backswing... the body "WANTS" to do something else...? because its so used to coming over the top, even if I get to a good take away position the body moves that way.....

 

Anyways.... this is something I noticed that seem to be a better "trigger" response? does this make any sense, or am I going to make things worse?

 

 

 

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Your body standing up is it's way to compensate for everything happening before hand, go ahead and try to force your hands down and you will likely drop kick it and possibly break your driver.

 

You have yet to try to hit a single ball with and are already abandoning sage advice? This is not going to be easy, but your desire to find a quick magical fix just isnt there. I would highly suggest finding a solid instructor if you legitimately want to improve, all of these 2d static image comparisons is a huge waste of time.

 

The golf swing is a dynamic kinematic sequence, you have to have everything prior in a decent position if you want to get into a solid impact positions. You are essentially trying to build a very tall pyramid while skipping building the huge base required.

 

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Your way over thinking this. Few pros get their hands back to where they were at impact - most are a bit higher - this is due to body tilts and that the arms are extending at impact but have not yet fully extended.

That said, you need to work at slower speeds a lot and be more patient - nothing wrong with going the to range but hit balls at slow speed - your brain has learned how to hit the ball and it's going to take time to retrain it - baby steps - 1% better every day.

The stick drills will help your takeaway path, hopefully your side bend and pivot some, and your path from going to flat to steep - but your brain still knows how to transition and that is pulling the club down steep, etc - you need to "feel" a loop in your swing during transition - this is the club falling behind you and if you video'd it you won't see a loop cuase its a feel - that's going from steep to shallow - something you've most likely never felt - give yourself feedback aid - take 2 alignments stick and place at roughtly 45* angles off your trail toe , one point up and away the other back - go over the top one on your backs and over the back one your downswing.

All that said, I think it's a great idea to work on delivery position to impact cause your brain need to learn how to really release the club versus what it does now - and it's really tough, imo, to correct a release pattern doing full swing - so get into a good delivery position then simply extend your arms and hit the ball.

ua67quonqe3y.png23xvrrnqqxu3.png

Note his delivery position, right elbow bent and in front of his hip, right wrist extended, left wrist flexed, weight onto left foot, hips slightly open.

Hit from this static position, then you can do slow, short pumps and hit. Then start doing single right arm swings to hit a ball - short ones.

like this

Again, take a lesson or take free 7 day trial of Tyler Ferrell's website and buy his book. and be patient.

 

 

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

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> @buckeyefl said:

> > @Mikey5e said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > > > Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe also in all your irons.

> > > > >

> > > > > What?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The op asked this question:

> > > > Why Cant I develop Accuracy in my Driver?

> > > > I answered rationally and believe it is the main reason why people struggle with their drivers off the tee. Even the professionals struggle with these clubs more so than every other club in the bag. Basically you have a fishing pole with a club head on the end of it, and it makes it difficult to control for everybody. People think because they can't hit 14 out of 14 Fairways there's something wrong with their driving, but everybody struggles to hit the fairway for the most part. I don't understand why you don't understand what I said? Probably just trying to start controversy I would imagine.

> > >

> > > No I imagine that your comment needs an explanation because it made zero sense.

> > >

> > > Lets try again.

> > >

> > > "Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe

> > > also in all your irons."

> > >

> > > What?

> > >

> > > As far as the OP the reason he can't hit it straight is painfully obvious and has been covered repeatedly.

> > The way I see it you're questioning of my comment really doesn't make sense, because I think it directly applies to all people who struggle with a driver. It was a simple point I made, but a very valid point as well. It's a shame that you cannot understand that, but I guess you just want to be right. So I'll say it, you're right!

> >

>

> The fact that I've questioned your ridiculous point twice and you still are, either purposely or through a high level of disconnect, ignoring your epic dumb comment says more about you not understanding how wrong you are than me trying to be right.

> One more time, "Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe also in all your irons."

>

> So again, "What?"

 

no comment, you seem to be having trouble, plus you have to denigrate to get your point across. Please end this back and forth, I am, I'm not going to participate in it any more.

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> @glk said:

> Your way over thinking this. Few pros get their hands back to where they were at impact - most are a bit higher - this is due to body tilts and that the arms are extending at impact but have not yet fully extended.

> That said, you need to work at slower speeds a lot and be more patient - nothing wrong with going the to range but hit balls at slow speed - your brain has learned how to hit the ball and it's going to take time to retrain it - baby steps - 1% better every day.

> The stick drills will help your takeaway path, hopefully your side bend and pivot some, and your path from going to flat to steep - but your brain still knows how to transition and that is pulling the club down steep, etc - you need to "feel" a loop in your swing during transition - this is the club falling behind you and if you video'd it you won't see a loop cuase its a feel - that's going from steep to shallow - something you've most likely never felt.

> All that said, I think it's a great idea to work on delivery position to impact cause your brain need to learn how to really release the club versus what it does now - and it's really tough, imo, to correct a release pattern doing full swing - so get into a good delivery position then simply extend your arms and hit the ball.

> ua67quonqe3y.png23xvrrnqqxu3.png

> Note his delivery position, right elbow bent and in front of his hip, right wrist extended, left wrist flexed, weight onto left foot, hips slightly open.

> Hit from this static position, then you can do slow, short pumps and hit. Then start doing single right arm swings to hit a ball - short ones.

> like this

> Again, take a lesson or take free 7 day trial of Tyler Ferrell's website and buy his book. and be patient.

>

>

 

Man that guy in your Instagram link looks familiar. ?

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> @Nard_S said:

> The cliff notes on your impact is that your body is square to target line when hips & shoulders need to be opened quite a bit more. A lot more in fact. Relative to your body, your hands should not be in same position at impact as it is at address, they should be more inline with right side of body.

 

In a perfect world yes, but if he did all of that without fixing his wide open face, he would hit the ball a mile right. His body stalling and flipping the face closed is a result of everything else before that, cant just force those positions without addressing the face.

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> @Mikey5e said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > > > > Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe also in all your irons.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The op asked this question:

> > > > > Why Cant I develop Accuracy in my Driver?

> > > > > I answered rationally and believe it is the main reason why people struggle with their drivers off the tee. Even the professionals struggle with these clubs more so than every other club in the bag. Basically you have a fishing pole with a club head on the end of it, and it makes it difficult to control for everybody. People think because they can't hit 14 out of 14 Fairways there's something wrong with their driving, but everybody struggles to hit the fairway for the most part. I don't understand why you don't understand what I said? Probably just trying to start controversy I would imagine.

> > > >

> > > > No I imagine that your comment needs an explanation because it made zero sense.

> > > >

> > > > Lets try again.

> > > >

> > > > "Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe

> > > > also in all your irons."

> > > >

> > > > What?

> > > >

> > > > As far as the OP the reason he can't hit it straight is painfully obvious and has been covered repeatedly.

> > > The way I see it you're questioning of my comment really doesn't make sense, because I think it directly applies to all people who struggle with a driver. It was a simple point I made, but a very valid point as well. It's a shame that you cannot understand that, but I guess you just want to be right. So I'll say it, you're right!

> > >

> >

> > The fact that I've questioned your ridiculous point twice and you still are, either purposely or through a high level of disconnect, ignoring your epic dumb comment says more about you not understanding how wrong you are than me trying to be right.

> > One more time, "Plus you generally have a very flexible graphite shaft in the driver which you don't have in your wedges or maybe also in all your irons."

> >

> > So again, "What?"

>

> no comment, you seem to be having trouble, plus you have to denigrate to get your point across. Please end this back and forth, I am, I'm not going to participate in it any more.

 

Tactical retreat noted.

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> @Krt22 said:

> Your body standing up is it's way to compensate for everything happening before hand, go ahead and try to force your hands down and you will likely drop kick it and possibly break your driver.

>

> You have yet to try to hit a single ball with and are already abandoning sage advice? This is not going to be easy, but your desire to find a quick magical fix just isnt there. I would highly suggest finding a solid instructor if you legitimately want to improve, all of these 2d static image comparisons is a huge waste of time.

>

> The golf swing is a dynamic kinematic sequence, you have to have everything prior in a decent position if you want to get into a solid impact positions. You are essentially trying to build a very tall pyramid while skipping building the huge base required.

>

 

NO NO not at all, not abandoning as I stated.... in these last 3 days since we started I have force fed the instruction from @glk & @copperjeff . I think in all fairness in the house.. I think I have done the alignment drill about 1000+ times to re train the take away feeling.

 

I have not applied anything to the range/ball period. I am taking the advice for face value.

 

What I am implying as you all edified IT IS VERY weird and unnatural so it must be working but like you said. Its a kinematic sequence yet my stupid body "FEELS" like its going back to how it was before. So its easy to just take the back swing as describe, HOLD IT there. I have been doing it..... the next progressive move is what? Of course I am going to try and take a few full swings and that is what I am imply.... You said that my body responds in a way to the chain... But I have broken the chain, with this new move, YET my body is intentionally reverting (I hope you see where I am going basically saying I am going to have to forcefully move every facet as I think I have engraved such a bad swing period its reacting to replicate the bad swing as a whole even if I change one part?) does that make sense. So for me I may have to actually force every sequence and NOT just one part at a time?

 

OK So here is the next point as you have said it no less then 3 times and posted. Yes I should see an instructor. AT this very moment, I do not have at this moment the disposable income, nor the time or ability to do so. yes improving is important, but no where near as important as my life responsibility. If life said NO golf forever I would give it up for my children (this is currently where disposable income is being spent) . MY deepest apologies if I am coming off strong on this.... BUT I get that I SHOULD see an instructor. But the reality is its not for everyone and I just cant afford it right now. IF I can learn what I can from a public forum and youtube. that is my option. If the public forum and those participating dont want to "particpate' anymore then I have reached my limitation of what available means I have. Until that point I am at least going to try. I hope you understand?

 

Thanks again!

 

Cobra SZ - Rogue 60s
TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 60S
Sub70- 649mbs-PW-6 ,639 CBs-5-4   PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S200
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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$50 gets you an online lesson with iteach. So skip a round or two of golf.

http://dancarrahergolf.com/online-lessons/

 

Get a shag bag, find a field, hit your wedge. the delivery drill can be done in the backyard if you have one - you aren't hitting the ball more than 10 yards. Don't need to go to the range for every thing but you need feedback of hitting a ball - you've done a lot but with out video of you doing the drill you don't know if you are even doing the drill correctly.

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

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Totally understandable, just know it's not going to be an easy road. Time to fix fundamental flaws isnt going to happen in days, it can take weeks/months trying to "find it in the dirt". You can pound a 2 thousand balls and get almost no where. If you get range balls free, then have at it. If you are paying for range balls/time, factor that into your affordability equation.

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> @Krt22 said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > The cliff notes on your impact is that your body is square to target line when hips & shoulders need to be opened quite a bit more. A lot more in fact. Relative to your body, your hands should not be in same position at impact as it is at address, they should be more inline with right side of body.

>

> In a perfect world yes, but if he did all of that without fixing his wide open face, he would hit the ball a mile right. His body stalling and flipping the face closed is a result of everything else before that, cant just force those positions without addressing the face.

 

The face is a relative easy fix especially if hand action gets the demotion it well deserves.

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      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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