Playing and betting etiquette with club pro

[Swisstrader98]

So today the pro from our club joins us for a friendly round and we decide to play a small match with partners. Before we tee off, we all agree that we will cover the pros bet just as a courtesy.

 

Fast forward to end of round and pro and his partner win it. I go to pay my bet to the pro and his partner then says to me “give me the money”. I say “no, pro earned it, our deal was to cover his bet in case he lost”. He argues that the money is his.

 

What say you?

[LeoLeo99]

Why would you cover the pro's bet? When I was a member of a private club, we used to bristle at the pro claiming he was only a 4 handicapper and wanting strokes from some of the guys. Let him man up.

Pay your loss to the other team and let them figure it out. No need for you get into the middle.

[SNIPERBBB]

Don't know why you would cover his bet. But as to other guy demanding the pros money, that's between the pro and the partner. It's the pros money to me.

[LeoLeo99]

After some time to think. I'm confused.

 

For example, if the bet was $100 a man. Who is covering the pro? Is his partner putting up $200 if they lost? Then he gets all the winnings since he took on full liability.

[SNIPERBBB]

Way I read it is they all are kicking in a third of the pros buy-in.

[LeoLeo99]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> Way I read it is they all are kicking in a third of the pros buy-in.

 

I don't disagree but why would you make a 1 to 2 bet against the pros team? You're betting $133 to win $66. I need more details.

[caniac6]

Pro shouldn't be betting with the members.

[buckeyefl]

> @caniac6 said:

> Pro shouldn't be betting with the members.

 

That's up to the club.

[buckeyefl]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> Don't know why you would cover his bet. But as to other guy demanding the pros money, that's between the pro and the partner. It's the pros money to me.

 

It's not uncommon.

[Swisstrader98]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> Way I read it is they all are kicking in a third of the pros buy-in.

Just for clarity, the only guy putting up money for the pro is his playing partner and this was agreed prior to teeing off.

 

[LeoLeo99]

> @Swisstrader98 said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > Way I read it is they all are kicking in a third of the pros buy-in.

> Just for clarity, the only guy putting up money for the pro is his playing partner and this was agreed prior to teeing off.

>

Then he gets the full pot.

[Augster]

> @LeoLeo99 said:

> > @Swisstrader98 said:

> > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > Way I read it is they all are kicking in a third of the pros buy-in.

> > Just for clarity, the only guy putting up money for the pro is his playing partner and this was agreed prior to teeing off.

> >

> Then he gets the full pot.

 

This.

 

 

[Tocgolfer]

The pro could take the money but give it to his partner later.

[dpb5031]

Our pro and assistant pros used to play with us occasionally to round out our foursomes if needed. They got their full strokes and always paid up in our $40 throw-in. If they lost in a four-ball Nassau, they fully expected to pay, though many of us would give them a "haircut" on the bet. We always appreciated that if we needed one of them, they'd drop everything and join us last minute.

[bigmoneyp]

> @Swisstrader98 said:

> Before we tee off, **we all agree that we will cover the pros bet** just as a courtesy.

 

How can "we" cover the pros bet if "we" didn't pay anything. The guy who put up the money wins the pot. Your rules need to be more clear when you set the terms.

 

 

[2bGood]

The guy covering the pros bet, gets the pros winnings. It is up to him if he gives the pro anything.

 

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

Doesn't matter who covers the Pro's portion of the bet. The Pro deserves his portion of the winner's pot. Ask him.

[dpb5031]

> @2bGood said:

> The guy covering the pros bet, gets the pros winnings. It is up to him if he gives the pro anything.

>

>

>

 

Pot game or match? If the pro wins the pot, even if I had agreed in advance to throw-in for him, in my view, the pot is his. In a match, it's up to whoever lost. If I'm the pro's partner and we lose, maybe I cover his bet. If we win, he gets paid same as me, period.

[farmer]

I can see so many ways that a pro gambling with members will wind up poorly. Maybe very small stakes, anything else has the potential for a wreck.

[Clambake]

What you were really doing is “ tipping” the pro for playing with you by agreeing to cover his losses, and in that agreement it was implicit that if he won he’d get a little something for his trouble. This would be a common courtesy, and you probably got a few playing tips or help along the way. And when you say you all agreed to cover the pro’s losses, you’re all agreeing that together you’ll share the liability for that gratuity. That’s all good and quite appropriate.

 

I’m sure the pro contributed to the win, but even if none of his shots did help his team (impossible to imagine), for the pro’s playing partner to then claim he gets the pro’s share of the winning is utter asinine greed. He’s denying the pro the little something extra that the pro earned from all of you. Such cheating greed would guarantee that guy would never have a game with my group ever again.

[2bGood]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @2bGood said:

> > The guy covering the pros bet, gets the pros winnings. It is up to him if he gives the pro anything.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Pot game or match? If the pro wins the pot, even if I had agreed in advance to throw-in for him, in my view, the pot is his. In a match, it's up to whoever lost. If I'm the pro's partner and we lose, maybe I cover his bet. If we win, he gets paid same as me, period.

 

I don't have to think too hard on it for my own dealings but there are lots of dynamics at play. I play with our assistant pros a fair bit. I would never personally dream of keeping their share of winnings as they make next to nothing. I always cover the entry fee for them and they can keep what they win.

 

Our head pro is bit different as he makes more than I do some years, so I never feel compelled to cover his bets.

[LeoLeo99]

> @Clambake said:

> What you were really doing is “ tipping” the pro for playing with you by agreeing to cover his losses, and in that agreement it was implicit that if he won he’d get a little something for his trouble. This would be a common courtesy, and you probably got a few playing tips or help along the way. And when you say you all agreed to cover the pro’s losses, you’re all agreeing that together you’ll share the liability for that gratuity. That’s all good and quite appropriate.

>

> I’m sure the pro contributed to the win, but even if none of his shots did help his team (impossible to imagine), for the pro’s playing partner to then claim he gets the pro’s share of the winning is utter asinine greed. He’s denying the pro the little something extra that the pro earned from all of you. Such cheating greed would guarantee that guy would never have a game with my group ever again.

 

This makes no sense to me. If the bet is $100 a man and I'm the pro's partner then I either lose $200 or win $100? Why would i want to be partners with the pro? Is the match set up that I'd win 2 out of 3 times?

[Augster]

I guess I’m with Leo that I misunderstood. It’s a hustle. The guy playing with the pro is more than 70% sure they will win. They, the pro and his partner, are playing suckers that don’t mind losing. They want the challenge of overcoming great odds and are willing to pay for the experience.

 

In that light, then yes, pay the $100 to the pro. Basically, “I’ll cover you “if we lose (wink, wink)”, and when we win you’ll make $100.” The pro isn’t just out there for funsies.

 

It’s like that with any ringer brought in. They expect to play for free in case they take an unlikely loss (usually due to an exceptionally bad day by the ringer’s partner) and collect 1/2 of anything won.

[bladehunter]

> @caniac6 said:

> Pro shouldn't be betting with the members.

 

Al depends on which members. Our pro is probably around a 3 handicap. lol. But extremely consistent. He will shoot 69-74 like clockwork. He plays money games with plenty of scratch and plus players. And loses regularly.

[Jack Daniels]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @caniac6 said:

> > Pro shouldn't be betting with the members.

>

> Al depends on which members. Our pro is probably around a 3 handicap. lol. But extremely consistent. He will shoot 69-74 like clockwork. He plays money games with plenty of scratch and plus players. And loses regularly.

 

A 3 handicap doesn't shoot 69-74 like clockwork. Might be a 3 if the course rating was 65.

[bladehunter]

> @"Jack Daniels" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @caniac6 said:

> > > Pro shouldn't be betting with the members.

> >

> > Al depends on which members. Our pro is probably around a 3 handicap. lol. But extremely consistent. He will shoot 69-74 like clockwork. He plays money games with plenty of scratch and plus players. And loses regularly.

>

> A 3 handicap doesn't shoot 69-74 like clockwork. Might be a 3 if the course rating was 65.

 

71.2 is the rating from the tees we play. Maybe hed be closer to a 1.5 ( rounds up to 2). For reference. My current scoring average is 72.8. With a current listed low round of 68. And I haven’t broken into plus territory. Ever. Yet. Lol. Hover from 0.3 to 1.8 ish. Both of us playing well. He just doesn’t beat me anymore. I have to card a double or triple for him to get ahead.

[Pepperturbo]

@bladehunter - People easily overlook a simple reality, though not regularly, anyone (regardless of index) can swing up to 10 strokes in either direction. Whether they do that during a game depends on how comfortable they are playing under pressure.
I watched a 2 handi buddy, in stroke play, have a sub-par round and beat a +4. Also saw a 1 handi in-stroke play beat a +6. My buddy and I have played against many scratch and better golfers, even up too; knowing we're likely to lose. However, sometimes we win because we love the challenge of stepping up our game under pressure move over we don't fear losing. Though my current index due to lack of play, is more 4-5, not long ago I was a 2 with lowest round at 68 on Par 72, 72.5/131 back tees. This 70 yr old just played that same course the other day and carded a 77. My health is back so I am going for my age... lol

[ArtMBgolf]

If the pro's partner wants to collect it all, was he going to pay double if they lost?

If pro's team wins $20, they either get $20 each or partner gets $40.

If pro team loses $20, you could cover his loss, by his partner paying each of your team $10 each.

A deal like this might work better if it was individual, like skins, where the pro can win $, but not lose anything.

[charli]

Pros partner took all the risk of covering the bet. Guy gets all the winnings and up to him if he gives the pro anything

[TerpFangolfer]

sorry I missed this thread when it was 1st posted...there only 1 person I would trust to answer this question

go to Twitter and ask @ClubProGuy