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Other than TOC, what is a must play in Scotland


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> @imafishermn said:

> Tomorrow I’m torn between getting up early and another round on TOC or making the short drive to Car-NASTY! I ‘d really like another shot at TOC when I’m better rested but I’d also like to see Carnoustie. Ok gang, voice your opinion once again. I love reading all the comments!

I love being able to play a great golf course a couple of times in a short period, I'd really consider trying the Old Course again. You'll see new angles, different approaches, probably different winds, to me its fascinating. But Carnoustie is a really outstanding course too, just one that I didn't find to be picturesque or charming in the same way TOC is. There's not a bad answer, but I'd probably stay in St Andrews.

 

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The only must play (that is don't miss for any reason) in Scotland is TOC. The next closest thing (plan a significant trip around this course) are North Berwick, Muirfield & Prestwick. Since Mui

> @Chanceman said: > I would rate Royal Dornoch as the most enjoyable course in Scotland, if not the best, and for me would be the first course to play. Having said that, TOC is **naturally an

Well I was so fortunate yesterday - I showed up around 5 am and was 14th in line. After everyone registered and got their guaranteed time, most went back to their hotel for either breakfast or to go b

@imafishermn - Do you have a time at Carnoustie already? Or they have said they have openings and you can just come around?

If you want another bash at TOC, then do that! Depending on the time you get, you could easily pop down the road to play Elie as a 2nd or 1st round of the day and have yourself a wonderful two round day out.

You've been really fortunate to get this run of good weather, especially after the start of the week. Best take advantage of it :-)

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Carnoustie is great. Just dont expect any glamour. Its a tough beast but really enjoyable in a very Scottish kind of way. Personally I loved the grittiness of it, the feeling that you are scrambling all the time and that every hole has to be grappled with to make any kind of score. I played it on a cold, misty day when you could barely see 200 yards - I thought enjoy the ride, you are playing golf in Scotland, where the game was invented.

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Well I was so fortunate yesterday - I showed up around 5 am and was 14th in line. After everyone registered and got their guaranteed time, most went back to their hotel for either breakfast or to go back to bed for a couple hours (some had been there since 1 am). Well I stuck around thinking I might get a few photos of me in front of the R&A clubhouse before anyone got there...and did that pay off! The gentleman checking us in just happened to be one of the guys I got out with Wed evening and the caddie master phoned him right as I was about to walk out. He motioned for me to wait and after about a min phone call he hung up and said “the first time 6:30 just cancelled, would you like it?” - can you believe my luck! I was first off TOC with two other gentlemen who were the last to show up right after I did! We finished in 3:30 hrs, played really well, except for the par 5 on the back which I found two bunkers and an unplayable...that hole killed me both rounds! So after putting out for par in 18, I had a late breakfast and checked checked out of the Scores. I still wanted Carnoustie but they said it was unlikely I would get on so I decided to call Kingsbarns and they paired me up. I know it’s not like by most but I must admit I really liked it...but I’m not sure I’d play it again unless part of a package. Overall one of the best golfing days I’ve had - hard to beat being first off TOC I’m near perfect conditions.913d2vxefn40.jpeg

 

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You should do everything you can to play Dornoch ... you should do everything you can to play 36 ... you should do everything you can to stay out of those bunkers ... just played 36 there on Sunday after 18 at stuart on Saturday ... castle stuart’s a neat course ... Dornoch is a classic, in every way ...

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> @tiderider said:

> You should do everything you can to play Dornoch ... you should do everything you can to play 36 ... you should do everything you can to stay out of those bunkers ... just played 36 there on Sunday after 18 at stuart on Saturday ... castle stuart’s a neat course ... Dornoch is a classic, in every way ...

 

Most important, you should plan to go back as often as you possibly can.

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> @davep043 said:

> > @tiderider said:

> > You should do everything you can to play Dornoch ... you should do everything you can to play 36 ... you should do everything you can to stay out of those bunkers ... just played 36 there on Sunday after 18 at stuart on Saturday ... castle stuart’s a neat course ... Dornoch is a classic, in every way ...

>

> Most important, you should plan to go back as often as you possibly can.

 

If I played every time I went to the the Highlands I'd be broke! My in-laws live on the west coast and we visit quite a few times a year; just an 8 hour drive from home. I haven't played yet but I've got a tee time on 6th August and having read WRXer's reviews and seen some recent photos I'm very excited to say the least.

 

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I won't tell anyone that Dornoch isn't worth the effort, but I played Crail last weekend and it was in A1 shape, lots of US guys in the clubhouse who admitted they "had never really heard of it" before missing out on their ballot.

 

The guys over at NLU do a great job of sign posting what alot of us already know. Great links courses aren't always the ones you saw in a magazine or a brochure last month. If I was in the Fife area and trying to get a time on the Old lady then I'd also consider Crail, Elie, Kingbarns, Lundin Links, Leven or as far south as Muirfield/North Berwick. You won't be disappointed.

 

I've put together this thread and @davep043 has also added his invaluable insights, I'd take a look. If you don't get up to Dornoch then it's a great excuse for another trip. You'll need FIVE trips to complete the Scottish Grand Slam of links golf anyway lol.

 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1504576/scotland-golf-trip-101-the-compass-guide/p1

 

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> @jonnymc44 said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @tiderider said:

> > > You should do everything you can to play Dornoch ... you should do everything you can to play 36 ... you should do everything you can to stay out of those bunkers ... just played 36 there on Sunday after 18 at stuart on Saturday ... castle stuart’s a neat course ... Dornoch is a classic, in every way ...

> >

> > Most important, you should plan to go back as often as you possibly can.

>

> If I played every time I went to the the Highlands I'd be broke! My in-laws live on the west coast and we visit quite a few times a year; just an 8 hour drive from home. I haven't played yet but I've got a tee time on 6th August and having read WRXer's reviews and seen some recent photos I'm very excited to say the least.

>

 

I envy you a bit for that, although we have plenty of great options in the States too. But I know lots of guys who plan their first trip to Scotland as if they'll never have a chance to go back. They plan to race around the country, playing every "famous" course, and missing out on some of the not-so-famous great courses in Scotland, spending all of their non-golf time either sleeping or seeing the country from a moving vehicle. If they were to slow down a little, knowing that they have more chances to visit, I think they'd enjoy it more. Just my opinion, of course.

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> @davep043 said:

> > @jonnymc44 said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @tiderider said:

> > > > You should do everything you can to play Dornoch ... you should do everything you can to play 36 ... you should do everything you can to stay out of those bunkers ... just played 36 there on Sunday after 18 at stuart on Saturday ... castle stuart’s a neat course ... Dornoch is a classic, in every way ...

> > >

> > > Most important, you should plan to go back as often as you possibly can.

> >

> > If I played every time I went to the the Highlands I'd be broke! My in-laws live on the west coast and we visit quite a few times a year; just an 8 hour drive from home. I haven't played yet but I've got a tee time on 6th August and having read WRXer's reviews and seen some recent photos I'm very excited to say the least.

> >

>

> I envy you a bit for that, although we have plenty of great options in the States too. But I know lots of guys who plan their first trip to Scotland as if they'll never have a chance to go back. They plan to race around the country, playing every "famous" course, and missing out on some of the not-so-famous great courses in Scotland, spending all of their non-golf time either sleeping or seeing the country from a moving vehicle. If they were to slow down a little, knowing that they have more chances to visit, I think they'd enjoy it more. Just my opinion, of course.

 

I agree. The best course I've played to date in Scotland would not get remotely close to a "once in a lifetime trip"- Southerness https://southernessgolfclub.com/the-course/gallery/

As the name suggests it's on the south (west) coast. It's such a difficult course; par 69, course rating 73.2, slope 148, but very fair and incredibly enjoyable. It's length isn't the test but the course design itself. For the returners to Scotland, please play this course. It's also a steal at £60 a round weekday.

You can then hop across to Silloth Golf Club in Cumbria, England, which has been voted as the best course to play under £100 in Great Britain. You can see the course from Southerness. At £55 a round it's incredible. I could play these two courses all day every day, and most people will have never heard of them.

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> @davep043 said:

> > @jonnymc44 said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @tiderider said:

> > > > You should do everything you can to play Dornoch ... you should do everything you can to play 36 ... you should do everything you can to stay out of those bunkers ... just played 36 there on Sunday after 18 at stuart on Saturday ... castle stuart’s a neat course ... Dornoch is a classic, in every way ...

> > >

> > > Most important, you should plan to go back as often as you possibly can.

> >

> > If I played every time I went to the the Highlands I'd be broke! My in-laws live on the west coast and we visit quite a few times a year; just an 8 hour drive from home. I haven't played yet but I've got a tee time on 6th August and having read WRXer's reviews and seen some recent photos I'm very excited to say the least.

> >

>

> I envy you a bit for that, although we have plenty of great options in the States too. But I know lots of guys who plan their first trip to Scotland as if they'll never have a chance to go back. They plan to race around the country, playing every "famous" course, and missing out on some of the not-so-famous great courses in Scotland, spending all of their non-golf time either sleeping or seeing the country from a moving vehicle. If they were to slow down a little, knowing that they have more chances to visit, I think they'd enjoy it more. Just my opinion, of course.

 

You need to plan better: Ayr, East Lothian, and Fife are super easy to string together and you can have as much non-golfing time as you'd want. Granted Inverness is a bit of a hike. But someone doing a 'bucket list' trip can do so easily do all the Southern ones and still have plenty of time left for afters... unless of course they are playing 36 every day and only want a meal, a pint, and some sleep.

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

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> @jonnymc44 said:

> I agree. The best course I've played to date in Scotland would not get remotely close to a "once in a lifetime trip"- Southerness https://southernessgolfclub.com/the-course/gallery/

> As the name suggests it's on the south (west) coast. It's such a difficult course; par 69, course rating 73.2, slope 148, but very fair and incredibly enjoyable. It's length isn't the test but the course design itself. For the returners to Scotland, please play this course. It's also a steal at £60 a round weekday.

> You can then hop across to Silloth Golf Club in Cumbria, England, which has been voted as the best course to play under £100 in Great Britain. You can see the course from Southerness. At £55 a round it's incredible. I could play these two courses all day every day, and most people will have never heard of them.

 

Have you gotten round to Seascale? Thought that was a cracking course. Apart from the first two and the one hole leading up to Sellafield, it's a ton of fun :-) And would round out a nice hat trick of links courses in that neck of the woods.

 

 

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

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> @thecraw said:

> > @Chanceman said:

> > I would rate Royal Dornoch as the most enjoyable course in Scotland, if not the best, and for me would be the first course to play. Having said that, TOC is **naturally an experience** not to miss.

>

> I highlight part of your post as that is spot on in my opinion, there are FAR BETTER courses in Scotland than St Andrews but it is a phenomenal experience. The history and aura are frightening, you can feel the ghosts of yesteryear on that first tee and when you head for home.

>

 

Loved the Old Course. Fantastic experience!!!

 

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> @TheInfidel said:

> I won't tell anyone that Dornoch isn't worth the effort, but I played Crail last weekend and it was in A1 shape, lots of US guys in the clubhouse who admitted they "had never really heard of it" before missing out on their ballot.

>

> The guys over at NLU do a great job of sign posting what alot of us already know. Great links courses aren't always the ones you saw in a magazine or a brochure last month. If I was in the Fife area and trying to get a time on the Old lady then I'd also consider Crail, Elie, Kingbarns, Lundin Links, Leven or as far south as Muirfield/North Berwick. You won't be disappointed.

>

> I've put together this thread and @davep043 has also added his invaluable insights, I'd take a look. If you don't get up to Dornoch then it's a great excuse for another trip. You'll need FIVE trips to complete the Scottish Grand Slam of links golf anyway lol.

>

> https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1504576/scotland-golf-trip-101-the-compass-guide/p1

 

That thread plus all the input from you, Dave, Duffer and others, including some PMs over time were a huge help in addition to just doing some homework in putting together ideas for our trip last year and still a reference when putting together the list of courses for the trip upcoming to two different regions than last time.

 

Lots of good stuff on here for the finding!

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> @"Schley " said:

> > @thecraw said:

>

> >

> > I highlight part of your post as that is spot on in my opinion, there are FAR BETTER courses in Scotland than St Andrews but it is a phenomenal experience. The history and aura are frightening, you can feel the ghosts of yesteryear on that first tee and when you head for home.

>

> Far better??????? Can you actually read what you wrote and believe it? It is THE classic links course.

>

>

>

>

 

Yes I did read what I typed thanks and I stand by my assessment 101%. Name a great hole on St Andrews Old Course?

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> @Cwing said:

> > @thecraw said:

> > > @Chanceman said:

> > > I would rate Royal Dornoch as the most enjoyable course in Scotland, if not the best, and for me would be the first course to play. Having said that, TOC is **naturally an experience** not to miss.

> >

> > I highlight part of your post as that is spot on in my opinion, there are FAR BETTER courses in Scotland than St Andrews but it is a phenomenal experience. The history and aura are frightening, you can feel the ghosts of yesteryear on that first tee and when you head for home.

> >

>

> Loved the Old Course. Fantastic experience!!!

>

 

100% agree the experience is phenomenal.

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> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @TheInfidel said:

> > I won't tell anyone that Dornoch isn't worth the effort, but I played Crail last weekend and it was in A1 shape, lots of US guys in the clubhouse who admitted they "had never really heard of it" before missing out on their ballot.

> >

> > The guys over at NLU do a great job of sign posting what alot of us already know. Great links courses aren't always the ones you saw in a magazine or a brochure last month. If I was in the Fife area and trying to get a time on the Old lady then I'd also consider Crail, Elie, Kingbarns, Lundin Links, Leven or as far south as Muirfield/North Berwick. You won't be disappointed.

> >

> > I've put together this thread and @davep043 has also added his invaluable insights, I'd take a look. If you don't get up to Dornoch then it's a great excuse for another trip. You'll need FIVE trips to complete the Scottish Grand Slam of links golf anyway lol.

> >

> > https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1504576/scotland-golf-trip-101-the-compass-guide/p1

>

> That thread plus all the input from you, Dave, Duffer and others, including some PMs over time were a huge help in addition to just doing some homework in putting together ideas for our trip last year and still a reference when putting together the list of courses for the trip upcoming to two different regions than last time.

>

> Lots of good stuff on here for the finding!

 

Really glad it helped you. I'm even closer now to ticking off the top 100 courses in Scotland, and I'll probably do a write up when I'm finished. The real takeaway has been that the very best golf experiences don't always come from the top 10 or 20. If you ever need help in the future shoot me a PM! Any excuse to help a member out.

 

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> @thecraw said:

> > @"Schley " said:

> > > @thecraw said:

> >

> > >

> > > I highlight part of your post as that is spot on in my opinion, there are FAR BETTER courses in Scotland than St Andrews but it is a phenomenal experience. The history and aura are frightening, you can feel the ghosts of yesteryear on that first tee and when you head for home.

> >

> > Far better??????? Can you actually read what you wrote and believe it? It is THE classic links course.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Yes I did read what I typed thanks and I stand by my assessment 101%. Name a great hole on St Andrews Old Course?

 

It sounds as if you are not willing to concede even one TOC hole is great. In which case this is unlikely to be a fruitful discussion. However, the back nine is justly famous and revered in large part because of three great holes, 11, 14 and 17. 16 too should be great if the fairway line was widened on the left. There are other holes to consider as well but that is plenty for now. At some point, the wonderful greens would come into the conversation. Then there is the matter of the near perfect terrain... awkward lies and stances with no hill climbing. The sum of these parts plus at least three great holes puts TOC in any conversation as one of the best courses in GB&I.

 

Ciao

 

 

 

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> @jonnymc44 said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @jonnymc44 said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > @tiderider said:

> > > > > You should do everything you can to play Dornoch ... you should do everything you can to play 36 ... you should do everything you can to stay out of those bunkers ... just played 36 there on Sunday after 18 at stuart on Saturday ... castle stuart’s a neat course ... Dornoch is a classic, in every way ...

> > > >

> > > > Most important, you should plan to go back as often as you possibly can.

> > >

> > > If I played every time I went to the the Highlands I'd be broke! My in-laws live on the west coast and we visit quite a few times a year; just an 8 hour drive from home. I haven't played yet but I've got a tee time on 6th August and having read WRXer's reviews and seen some recent photos I'm very excited to say the least.

> > >

> >

> > I envy you a bit for that, although we have plenty of great options in the States too. But I know lots of guys who plan their first trip to Scotland as if they'll never have a chance to go back. They plan to race around the country, playing every "famous" course, and missing out on some of the not-so-famous great courses in Scotland, spending all of their non-golf time either sleeping or seeing the country from a moving vehicle. If they were to slow down a little, knowing that they have more chances to visit, I think they'd enjoy it more. Just my opinion, of course.

>

> I agree. The best course I've played to date in Scotland would not get remotely close to a "once in a lifetime trip"- Southerness https://southernessgolfclub.com/the-course/gallery/

> As the name suggests it's on the south (west) coast. It's such a difficult course; par 69, course rating 73.2, slope 148, but very fair and incredibly enjoyable. It's length isn't the test but the course design itself. For the returners to Scotland, please play this course. It's also a steal at £60 a round weekday.

> You can then hop across to Silloth Golf Club in Cumbria, England, which has been voted as the best course to play under £100 in Great Britain. You can see the course from Southerness. At £55 a round it's incredible. I could play these two courses all day every day, and most people will have never heard of them.

 

Totally agree, there are quite a few hidden gems near Dumfries, only issue is you really need to stay in Dumfries and drive to the courses, there's about 5 or 6 all within about 20 miles, but such a beautiful part of Scotland, actually going in October on my way back from St Andrews

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> @"El Gringo" said:

> > @thecraw said:

> > > @"Schley " said:

> > > > @thecraw said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > I highlight part of your post as that is spot on in my opinion, there are FAR BETTER courses in Scotland than St Andrews but it is a phenomenal experience. The history and aura are frightening, you can feel the ghosts of yesteryear on that first tee and when you head for home.

> > >

> > > Far better??????? Can you actually read what you wrote and believe it? It is THE classic links course.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Yes I did read what I typed thanks and I stand by my assessment 101%. Name a great hole on St Andrews Old Course?

>

> It sounds as if you are not willing to concede even one TOC hole is great. In which case this is unlikely to be a fruitful discussion. However, the back nine is justly famous and revered in large part because of three great holes, 11, 14 and 17. 16 too should be great if the fairway line was widened on the left. There are other holes to consider as well but that is plenty for now. At some point, the wonderful greens would come into the conversation. Then there is the matter of the near perfect terrain... awkward lies and stances with no hill climbing. The sum of these parts plus at least three great holes puts TOC in any conversation as one of the best courses in GB&I.

>

> Ciao

>

>

>

 

So the 11th a par 3 with 2 bunkers at the front of it equates to a great hole? Please enlighten me as to how you come to that conclusion? Its not even as good a par 3 as the 7th at Western Gailes or even the 4th hole at Kilmarnock Barassie. Then you have absolute classics such as Redan at North Berwick and The Postage Stamp at Troon which really blow the 11th out of the water. Of course I will concede these are just my views.

 

Again the 14th is a wide open fairway with a couple of bunkers that require to be taken into account, hardly a design masterpiece. Is it as good as the12th at Kingsbarns? Not in my opinion. 18th at Trump Aberdeen? Again not in my opinion.

 

17th is marmite, I have to ask would a designer have a hole nowadays where you hit over the corner of a building? Would it even be allowed, I very much doubt it. I don't decry that it is "unique" and "iconic" however is it as good as the 18th at Moray Old? 1st at Machrihanish etc etc?

 

As for the ground conditions, turf, complexes, green sites etc, I guess we are spoiled in Scotland as we have numerous amazing courses dotted around the coast with equally as good conditions if not better.

 

I 100% agree that St Andrews is a must play, its iconic and has an amazing aura. As a course, nowhere near the best in Scotland, but as I say just my opinion.

Cobra Speedzone driver - Evenflow Riptide  :  Honma TW747 3 wood- Diamana Tensei Blue 70 :  Callaway Rogue 7 wood- Diamana Blueboard 70 :  Ping i500 4-U - Recoil ES  :  Ping Glide 3.0 wedges 54 + 58 :  Ping Vault Ketsch 

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> @"El Gringo" said:

> > @thecraw said:

> > > @"Schley " said:

> > > > @thecraw said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > I highlight part of your post as that is spot on in my opinion, there are FAR BETTER courses in Scotland than St Andrews but it is a phenomenal experience. The history and aura are frightening, you can feel the ghosts of yesteryear on that first tee and when you head for home.

> > >

> > > Far better??????? Can you actually read what you wrote and believe it? It is THE classic links course.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Yes I did read what I typed thanks and I stand by my assessment 101%. Name a great hole on St Andrews Old Course?

>

> It sounds as if you are not willing to concede even one TOC hole is great. In which case this is unlikely to be a fruitful discussion. However, the back nine is justly famous and revered in large part because of three great holes, 11, 14 and 17. 16 too should be great if the fairway line was widened on the left. There are other holes to consider as well but that is plenty for now. At some point, the wonderful greens would come into the conversation. Then there is the matter of the near perfect terrain... awkward lies and stances with no hill climbing. The sum of these parts plus at least three great holes puts TOC in any conversation as one of the best courses in GB&I.

>

> Ciao

>

>

>

 

So the 11th a par 3 with 2 bunkers at the front of it equates to a great hole? Please enlighten me as to how you come to that conclusion? Its not even as good a par 3 as the 7th at Western Gailes or even the 4th hole at Kilmarnock Barassie. Then you have absolute classics such as Redan at North Berwick and The Postage Stamp at Troon which really blow the 11th out of the water. Of course I will concede these are just my views.

 

Again the 14th is a wide open fairway with a couple of bunkers that require to be taken into account, hardly a design masterpiece. Is it as good as the12th at Kingsbarns? Not in my opinion.

 

17th is marmite, I have to ask would a designer have a hole nowadays where you hit over the corner of a building? Would it even be allowed, I very much doubt it. I don't decry that it is "unique" and "iconic" however is it as good as the 18th at Moray Old? 1st at Machrihanish etc etc?

 

As for the ground conditions, turf, complexes, green sites etc, I guess we are spoiled in Scotland as we have numerous amazing courses dotted around the coast with equally as good conditions if not better.

 

I 100% agree that St Andrews is a must play, its iconic and has an amazing aura. As a course, nowhere near the best in Scotland.

Cobra Speedzone driver - Evenflow Riptide  :  Honma TW747 3 wood- Diamana Tensei Blue 70 :  Callaway Rogue 7 wood- Diamana Blueboard 70 :  Ping i500 4-U - Recoil ES  :  Ping Glide 3.0 wedges 54 + 58 :  Ping Vault Ketsch 

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> @thecraw said:

> Again the 14th is a wide open fairway with a couple of bunkers that require to be taken into account, hardly a design masterpiece. Is it as good as the12th at Kingsbarns? Not in my opinion.

>

> 17th is marmite, I have to ask would a designer have a hole nowadays where you hit over the corner of a building? Would it even be allowed, I very much doubt it. I don't decry that it is "unique" and "iconic" however is it as good as the 18th at Moray Old? 1st at Machrihanish etc etc?

>

> As for the ground conditions, turf, complexes, green sites etc, I guess we are spoiled in Scotland as we have numerous amazing courses dotted around the coast with equally as good conditions if not better.

>

> I 100% agree that St Andrews is a must play, its iconic and has an amazing aura. As a course, nowhere near the best in Scotland.

You are lucky to have all these choices in your backyard, we only get to experience by crossing the ocean or taking a drive up the A1(M) :-)

 

Obviously we all have our preferences, but do you like 12 at KB because it is along the water and pretty?

It doesn't have that much going for it otherwise IMHO, stay right - stay right - pitch...

 

And TOC 17 vs Moray Old 18? Sure they both have OB, but otherwise it's angles vs straight and multiple approach options vs one. 18 at Moray is cool , but it's not 17 at TOC. And I could care either way about the shed, they could knock it down and it's still a class hole.

 

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

F.T.

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> @duffer987 said:

> > @thecraw said:

 

> > I 100% agree that St Andrews is a must play, its iconic and has an amazing aura. As a course, nowhere near the best in Scotland.

> You are lucky to have all these choices in your backyard, we only get to experience by crossing the ocean or taking a drive up the A1(M) :-)

>

 

Hope you don't drive up the A/M 1 you won't get near St Andrews!!!

 

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> @scott_Donald said:

> > @duffer987 said:

> > > @thecraw said:

>

> > > I 100% agree that St Andrews is a must play, its iconic and has an amazing aura. As a course, nowhere near the best in Scotland.

> > You are lucky to have all these choices in your backyard, we only get to experience by crossing the ocean or taking a drive up the A1(M) :-)

> >

>

> Hope you don't drive up the A/M 1 you won't get near St Andrews!!!

>

 

Ha! Well not once you cross the border of course ;-) but coming up from Herts for example, M6/M1/A1(M) is all much of muchness depending on where you want to play along the way.

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

F.T.

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If I do get back to Scotland again then I would make a definite b-line to Royal Dornoch as #1 on my list and TOC #2. My actual route would be Crail, TOC, TNC, Carnoustie, Royal Aberdeen, Fraserburgh, Nairn, RD, Boat of Garten, North Berwick, Muirfield and home. A beautiful 2 weeks. Of these I would be playing RD, TOC, Carnoustie and NB for the second time - the others are bucket list.

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> @thecraw said:

> > @"El Gringo" said:

> > > @thecraw said:

> > > > @"Schley " said:

> > > > > @thecraw said:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I highlight part of your post as that is spot on in my opinion, there are FAR BETTER courses in Scotland than St Andrews but it is a phenomenal experience. The history and aura are frightening, you can feel the ghosts of yesteryear on that first tee and when you head for home.

> > > >

> > > > Far better??????? Can you actually read what you wrote and believe it? It is THE classic links course.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Yes I did read what I typed thanks and I stand by my assessment 101%. Name a great hole on St Andrews Old Course?

> >

> > It sounds as if you are not willing to concede even one TOC hole is great. In which case this is unlikely to be a fruitful discussion. However, the back nine is justly famous and revered in large part because of three great holes, 11, 14 and 17. 16 too should be great if the fairway line was widened on the left. There are other holes to consider as well but that is plenty for now. At some point, the wonderful greens would come into the conversation. Then there is the matter of the near perfect terrain... awkward lies and stances with no hill climbing. The sum of these parts plus at least three great holes puts TOC in any conversation as one of the best courses in GB&I.

> >

> > Ciao

> >

> >

> >

>

> So the 11th a par 3 with 2 bunkers at the front of it equates to a great hole? Please enlighten me as to how you come to that conclusion? Its not even as good a par 3 as the 7th at Western Gailes or even the 4th hole at Kilmarnock Barassie. Then you have absolute classics such as Redan at North Berwick and The Postage Stamp at Troon which really blow the 11th out of the water. Of course I will concede these are just my views.

>

> Again the 14th is a wide open fairway with a couple of bunkers that require to be taken into account, hardly a design masterpiece. Is it as good as the12th at Kingsbarns? Not in my opinion.

>

> 17th is marmite, I have to ask would a designer have a hole nowadays where you hit over the corner of a building? Would it even be allowed, I very much doubt it. I don't decry that it is "unique" and "iconic" however is it as good as the 18th at Moray Old? 1st at Machrihanish etc etc?

>

> As for the ground conditions, turf, complexes, green sites etc, I guess we are spoiled in Scotland as we have numerous amazing courses dotted around the coast with equally as good conditions if not better.

>

> I 100% agree that St Andrews is a must play, its iconic and has an amazing aura. As a course, nowhere near the best in Scotland.

 

Craw

 

I suggest you do some reading on the subject. Far better writers than myself have expounded on the greatness of of TOC, especially #s 11,14, 16 & 17.

 

CB. Macdonald chose Eden as a template hole because of it's special qualities. Naming other great par 3s from lesser known courses in no way dimishes the qualities of Eden.

 

14 is famed for its options, those options you call a field.

 

17 may be marmite, but divisive opinions on holes should be welcomed as a sign of something special.

 

The greens, talk to me about another course in Scotland with greens remotely as interesting and varied as TOC's. Same for the terrain. The only course I know of which is similar is Deal. And like TOC, it's remarkable greens and low lying rumbling terrain mixed with flat holes are two main reasons for it's brilliance.

 

Ciao

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> @"El Gringo" said:

> > @thecraw said:

> > > @"El Gringo" said:

> > > > @thecraw said:

> > > > > @"Schley " said:

> > > > > > @thecraw said:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I highlight part of your post as that is spot on in my opinion, there are FAR BETTER courses in Scotland than St Andrews but it is a phenomenal experience. The history and aura are frightening, you can feel the ghosts of yesteryear on that first tee and when you head for home.

> > > > >

> > > > > Far better??????? Can you actually read what you wrote and believe it? It is THE classic links course.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes I did read what I typed thanks and I stand by my assessment 101%. Name a great hole on St Andrews Old Course?

> > >

> > > It sounds as if you are not willing to concede even one TOC hole is great. In which case this is unlikely to be a fruitful discussion. However, the back nine is justly famous and revered in large part because of three great holes, 11, 14 and 17. 16 too should be great if the fairway line was widened on the left. There are other holes to consider as well but that is plenty for now. At some point, the wonderful greens would come into the conversation. Then there is the matter of the near perfect terrain... awkward lies and stances with no hill climbing. The sum of these parts plus at least three great holes puts TOC in any conversation as one of the best courses in GB&I.

> > >

> > > Ciao

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > So the 11th a par 3 with 2 bunkers at the front of it equates to a great hole? Please enlighten me as to how you come to that conclusion? Its not even as good a par 3 as the 7th at Western Gailes or even the 4th hole at Kilmarnock Barassie. Then you have absolute classics such as Redan at North Berwick and The Postage Stamp at Troon which really blow the 11th out of the water. Of course I will concede these are just my views.

> >

> > Again the 14th is a wide open fairway with a couple of bunkers that require to be taken into account, hardly a design masterpiece. Is it as good as the12th at Kingsbarns? Not in my opinion.

> >

> > 17th is marmite, I have to ask would a designer have a hole nowadays where you hit over the corner of a building? Would it even be allowed, I very much doubt it. I don't decry that it is "unique" and "iconic" however is it as good as the 18th at Moray Old? 1st at Machrihanish etc etc?

> >

> > As for the ground conditions, turf, complexes, green sites etc, I guess we are spoiled in Scotland as we have numerous amazing courses dotted around the coast with equally as good conditions if not better.

> >

> > I 100% agree that St Andrews is a must play, its iconic and has an amazing aura. As a course, nowhere near the best in Scotland.

>

> Craw

>

> I suggest you do some reading on the subject. Far better writers than myself have expounded on the greatness of of TOC, especially #s 11,14, 16 & 17.

>

> CB. Macdonald chose Eden as a template hole because of it's special qualities. Naming other great par 3s from lesser known courses in no way dimishes the qualities of Eden.

>

> 14 is famed for its options, those options you call a field.

>

> 17 may be marmite, but divisive opinions on holes should be welcomed as a sign of something special.

>

> The greens, talk to me about another course in Scotland with greens remotely as interesting and varied as TOC's. Same for the terrain. The only course I know of which is similar is Deal. And like TOC, it's remarkable greens and low lying rumbling terrain mixed with flat holes are two main reasons for it's brilliance.

>

> Ciao

 

> @"El Gringo" said:

> > @thecraw said:

> > > @"El Gringo" said:

> > > > @thecraw said:

> > > > > @"Schley " said:

> > > > > > @thecraw said:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I highlight part of your post as that is spot on in my opinion, there are FAR BETTER courses in Scotland than St Andrews but it is a phenomenal experience. The history and aura are frightening, you can feel the ghosts of yesteryear on that first tee and when you head for home.

> > > > >

> > > > > Far better??????? Can you actually read what you wrote and believe it? It is THE classic links course.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes I did read what I typed thanks and I stand by my assessment 101%. Name a great hole on St Andrews Old Course?

> > >

> > > It sounds as if you are not willing to concede even one TOC hole is great. In which case this is unlikely to be a fruitful discussion. However, the back nine is justly famous and revered in large part because of three great holes, 11, 14 and 17. 16 too should be great if the fairway line was widened on the left. There are other holes to consider as well but that is plenty for now. At some point, the wonderful greens would come into the conversation. Then there is the matter of the near perfect terrain... awkward lies and stances with no hill climbing. The sum of these parts plus at least three great holes puts TOC in any conversation as one of the best courses in GB&I.

> > >

> > > Ciao

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > So the 11th a par 3 with 2 bunkers at the front of it equates to a great hole? Please enlighten me as to how you come to that conclusion? Its not even as good a par 3 as the 7th at Western Gailes or even the 4th hole at Kilmarnock Barassie. Then you have absolute classics such as Redan at North Berwick and The Postage Stamp at Troon which really blow the 11th out of the water. Of course I will concede these are just my views.

> >

> > Again the 14th is a wide open fairway with a couple of bunkers that require to be taken into account, hardly a design masterpiece. Is it as good as the12th at Kingsbarns? Not in my opinion.

> >

> > 17th is marmite, I have to ask would a designer have a hole nowadays where you hit over the corner of a building? Would it even be allowed, I very much doubt it. I don't decry that it is "unique" and "iconic" however is it as good as the 18th at Moray Old? 1st at Machrihanish etc etc?

> >

> > As for the ground conditions, turf, complexes, green sites etc, I guess we are spoiled in Scotland as we have numerous amazing courses dotted around the coast with equally as good conditions if not better.

> >

> > I 100% agree that St Andrews is a must play, its iconic and has an amazing aura. As a course, nowhere near the best in Scotland.

>

> Craw

>

> I suggest you do some reading on the subject. Far better writers than myself have expounded on the greatness of of TOC, especially #s 11,14, 16 & 17.

>

> CB. Macdonald chose Eden as a template hole because of it's special qualities. Naming other great par 3s from lesser known courses in no way dimishes the qualities of Eden.

>

> 14 is famed for its options, those options you call a field.

>

> 17 may be marmite, but divisive opinions on holes should be welcomed as a sign of something special.

>

> The greens, talk to me about another course in Scotland with greens remotely as interesting and varied as TOC's. Same for the terrain. The only course I know of which is similar is Deal. And like TOC, it's remarkable greens and low lying rumbling terrain mixed with flat holes are two main reasons for it's brilliance.

>

> Ciao

 

Thankfully I don't need to do any "reading" I am more than capable of making up my own mind and don't require books to influence my thinking or "understanding" when I play golf nor do I need a book to tell me what to enjoy.

 

I have conceded that St Andrews is a must play, its iconic and the history and aura make it. The golf course itself isn't a great test IN MY OPINION. You are welcome to have a differnt view which is fine. I will go as far as to say the New Course is a better test.

 

In order to talk "greens" maybe you should quantify what excites you about TOC greens, is it the size? Is it the fact that they are double greens? Do huge greens excite you? Have you ever considered that others may like a smaller green? Sometimes life is easier to respect others opinions instead of belittling.

 

I have never once said that I am correct, I am telling you that I believe there are far better tests of golf in Scotland.

 

Cobra Speedzone driver - Evenflow Riptide  :  Honma TW747 3 wood- Diamana Tensei Blue 70 :  Callaway Rogue 7 wood- Diamana Blueboard 70 :  Ping i500 4-U - Recoil ES  :  Ping Glide 3.0 wedges 54 + 58 :  Ping Vault Ketsch 

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