How to add Width and be on Plane

[Wedgefromhere]

So after practicing with the RA2 and Gravityfit, I'm now getting wider, but I find that I'm hitting a lot of pushes, pretty severe.....maybe around 20 degrees.

 

Any ideas why this could happen? Are my hands late because I'm not used to them being wide at the top? Do I need more rotation because before I might have stalled and flipped and now the flipping has diminished?

[97speedster]

> @Wedgefromhere said:

> So after practicing with the RA2 and Gravityfit, I'm now getting wider, but I find that I'm hitting a lot of pushes, pretty severe.....maybe around 20 degrees.

>

> Any ideas why this could happen? Are my hands late because I'm not used to them being wide at the top? Do I need more rotation because before I might have stalled and flipped and now the flipping has diminished?

 

Post a video so I can see, but it sounds like it's your release. If you’re hitting it right try making split grip practice swings then hitting a ball.

[dhc1]

> @Wedgefromhere said:

> I bought both the RA2 and Gravityfit earlier this week. If I was only going to get one, it would be the Gravityfit, but I like having both.

>

> My swing definitely feels shorter and wider with the RA2, so it's good to get the feeling, but you don't want to hit every practice shot with it on and compared to Gravityfit, it's a bit more of a pain to take it on and off periodically through the practice session. I also like the Gravityfit because it forces you to make the move to get wide and not something that just prevents you from bending the right elbow too much.

>

> I like starting the practice session with 5 to 10 swings with the RA2, then switching to the Gravitiyfit and making swings alternating between using it and swinging on my own.

 

You bought both after reading about them on GolfWRX? You're a loser.

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I've already received the RA2 and am waiting on the Gravityfit to get delivered.

[Wedgefromhere]

> @97speedster said:

> > @Wedgefromhere said:

> > So after practicing with the RA2 and Gravityfit, I'm now getting wider, but I find that I'm hitting a lot of pushes, pretty severe.....maybe around 20 degrees.

> >

> > Any ideas why this could happen? Are my hands late because I'm not used to them being wide at the top? Do I need more rotation because before I might have stalled and flipped and now the flipping has diminished?

>

> Post a video so I can see, but it sounds like it's your release. If you’re hitting it right try making split grip practice swings then hitting a ball.

I recorded a swing from when I played this morning. This is the first time I've seen my swing since I started working on it. I'm still moving off the ball and the arms break down at the top, so I still have a lot to work on. This shot was pushed right like I've been seeing in my practice.

 

 

[97speedster]

@wedgefromhere From that angle you definitely need width and to shorten the backswing for consistency. It’s tough to see the plane and clubface, but you really should seek someone out that’s a good teacher. Too tough to do it in a forum when it’s not a simple fix.

[Deadaimz]

Great thread thanks for sharing 97speedster!

[gsea33]

Speedster just wondering what grip type does Butch advocate neutral, weak, strong ? As a sidebar I widen my stance per your advice, keep the club more in front as you advised. Working out well. The reason I ask about the grip is because I found with the new wide stance etc a little strong left hand position and a weak right hand position really helps for me. Definitely keeps my backswing from getting flat. I also still use the glove for practice which helps tremendously. The RA2 is tempting lol.

[97speedster]

> @gsea33 said:

> Speedster just wondering what grip type does Butch advocate neutral, weak, strong ? As a sidebar I widen my stance per your advice, keep the club more in front as you advised. Working out well. The reason I ask about the grip is because I found with the new wide stance etc a little strong left hand position and a weak right hand position really helps for me. Definitely keeps my backswing from getting flat. I also still use the glove for practice which helps tremendously. The RA2 is tempting lol.

 

Get the Right Angle 2, it's great. He advocates a stronger left hand 2.5 knuckles showing. I wouldn't go strong then weak with the right, make sure the hands oppose each other instead. Which glove? These gloves work great to put your hands on the club how Butch wants them:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Butch-Harmon-Right-Grip-Golf-Gloves-Right-Handed-Training-Aid-6-Sizes-Available/323726879845

[JeffreySpicoli]

> @97speedster said:

> > @gsea33 said:

> > Speedster just wondering what grip type does Butch advocate neutral, weak, strong ? As a sidebar I widen my stance per your advice, keep the club more in front as you advised. Working out well. The reason I ask about the grip is because I found with the new wide stance etc a little strong left hand position and a weak right hand position really helps for me. Definitely keeps my backswing from getting flat. I also still use the glove for practice which helps tremendously. The RA2 is tempting lol.

>

> Get the Right Angle 2, it's great. He advocates a stronger left hand 2.5 knuckles showing. I wouldn't go strong then weak with the right, make sure the hands oppose each other instead. Which glove? These gloves work great to put your hands on the club how Butch wants them:

>

> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Butch-Harmon-Right-Grip-Golf-Gloves-Right-Handed-Training-Aid-6-Sizes-Available/323726879845

 

I recently picked up a copy of Butch’s “About Golf” DVD set. (Good deals on lightly used copies.)

 

Speedster is spot on as far as grip.

 

For anyone wanting to understand Butch’s basic approach (and more), this DVD set would be a great buy.

[gsea33]

> @97speedster said:

> > @gsea33 said:

> > Speedster just wondering what grip type does Butch advocate neutral, weak, strong ? As a sidebar I widen my stance per your advice, keep the club more in front as you advised. Working out well. The reason I ask about the grip is because I found with the new wide stance etc a little strong left hand position and a weak right hand position really helps for me. Definitely keeps my backswing from getting flat. I also still use the glove for practice which helps tremendously. The RA2 is tempting lol.

>

> Get the Right Angle 2, it's great. He advocates a stronger left hand 2.5 knuckles showing. I wouldn't go strong then weak with the right, make sure the hands oppose each other instead. Which glove? These gloves work great to put your hands on the club how Butch wants them:

>

> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Butch-Harmon-Right-Grip-Golf-Gloves-Right-Handed-Training-Aid-6-Sizes-Available/323726879845

 

Thank you just by luck that's what I found works well for me. Left 2.5 knuckles, right is is opposed I call it weak. Don't let this thread die. Great stuff and really helping me, ball striking and ctrl has improved tremendously. Few guys would take the time and effort to maintain and answer all these questions.

[97speedster]

One thing I'm constantly working on is my release. I see too many golfers that think the head stays down until well after impact; this move in the golf swing causes a lot of lower back injuries and golfers hanging back. Butch Harmon wants the eyes to release through impact and follow the ball to the target with your eyes... the better your eyes track the ball down the target line, the easier and better your club and body will release through impact. A few of the best players at doing this are Henrik Stenson, Jim Furyk and Annika Sorestam; back in the day when he could play, David Duval also did this well and when he tried to change it in the early 2000's, he lost his game.

 

Here is Tiger's release from 2000 when he ruled the golfing world.

 

 

 

 

 

Below here is David Duval in 1999 through the ball after he won the British Open and before he tried to change his swing...

 

 

Three of the best releases all track the ball with their eyes through impact: Henrik Stenson, Aniika Sorenstam and Jim Furyk. Jim has always had a funky back swing, but on the down and through swing he does a lot of great things in his swing.

 

 

 

 

 

When I practice I have to consciously work on trying to track the ball with my eyes after impact, but I also like to work on this more statically indoors with an impact bag where I take my normal address position with the grip pointing at my sternum, then I lean the shaft forward into the impact bag (without taking a back swing) while I let my head rotates left towards the target; don't work on leaning the shaft left while looking down with your head. I'll do 10-25 reps of this and then another 10-25 reps of full back swings and downswings into the impact bag with forward shaft lean and feeling like my eyes are tracking down the target line before my shaft even reaches the impact bag.

 

 

 

 

[Ezgolfer]

Tracking the ball with your eyes a great fundamental puts you in good positions..

[peepee]

So when using the RA2 do you guys hit full shots at half setting?

[Wedgefromhere]

> @peepee said:

> So when using the RA2 do you guys hit full shots at half setting?

 

Yes

[97speedster]

> @peepee said:

> So when using the RA2 do you guys hit full shots at half setting?

 

Yes, even with a driver

 

 

[jc4birdie]

Speedster, thanks so much for recommending RA2. I’m not an aide guy in general, but this thing is legit. Flat right arm has been a haunting bugaboo for me for a long time, but RA2 does so much more. Helps left shoulder coil, keeps the elbows down as you gain width, makes you improve your footwork and pressure shift, and best of all, when you take it off, you can repeat what it trains (most aides don’t do that, in reality). I’m stunned at the improvements, and I’m nowhere close to having it grooved. I’m 6 holes on, 6 holes lose it, find it again for a few holes, inconsistent.

 

One question though, how many reps will it take to ingrain that width and good right arm position at the top of the backswing? And your suggestion of how best to structure range sessions w/ it both on and off so that I can assure that I’m actually improving my move and that it’s not just the RA2 doing it for me?

[jc4birdie]

Oh, and I’m 55 yrs. old, so 300 ball range sessions aren’t in the cards. I do 60-75 balls 2x a week at the range. Plus I have a 70 yd long driveway and about 35-40 Pelz “Almost Golf” balls and BirdieBalls and a nice RealFeel mat, so I can hit short irons, SW-8i, after work in the driveway....but usually I just chip and pitch there, to be honest.

[97speedster]

> @jc4birdie said:

> Speedster, thanks so much for recommending RA2. I’m not an aide guy in general, but this thing is legit. Flat right arm has been a haunting bugaboo for me for a long time, but RA2 does so much more. Helps left shoulder coil, keeps the elbows down as you gain width, makes you improve your footwork and pressure shift, and best of all, when you take it off, you can repeat what it trains (most aides don’t do that, in reality). I’m stunned at the improvements, and I’m nowhere close to having it grooved. I’m 6 holes on, 6 holes lose it, find it again for a few holes, inconsistent.

>

> One question though, how many reps will it take to ingrain that width and good right arm position at the top of the backswing? And your suggestion of how best to structure range sessions w/ it both on and off so that I can assure that I’m actually improving my move and that it’s not just the RA2 doing it for me?

 

3,000 reps, I love it! I use mine a ton indoors then like to feel it outside. I do a lot of indoor work, I have a great golf room and indoor green.

 

[jc4birdie]

Cool, so basically I’m looking at 90 days/13 weeks....figuring 230 reps a week (2 75 ball sessions & an 80 ball session at home w/ the “Almost “ balls (feel pretty real, btw), driveway, & RealFeel mat, w/ it on.

 

I love the goofy-looking thing. Today, in my after-round session, I could actually see my club’s shadow in the afternoon sun at the top. Plane is perfect at the top.....it’s just so liberating, in a sense. My arc is just so much more true. And the club is truly in front of me, beginning to end.

[97speedster]

> @jc4birdie said:

> Cool, so basically I’m looking at 90 days/13 weeks....figuring 230 reps a week (2 75 ball sessions & an 80 ball session at home w/ the “Almost “ balls (feel pretty real, btw), driveway, & RealFeel mat, w/ it on.

>

> I love the goofy-looking thing. Today, in my after-round session, I could actually see my club’s shadow in the afternoon sun at the top. Plane is perfect at the top.....it’s just so liberating, in a sense. My arc is just so much more true. And the club is truly in front of me, beginning to end.

 

That's all the things it's supposed to help with, so it's already working for you.

[salmon2]

This a great thread and I’ve been working with the RA2 and just received my medicine ball today. Mind posting a video of your practice swing/drill with the medicine ball?

[97speedster]

@salmon2 I’ll try, but it’s pretty easy... just hold both handles and make swings getting the body to work like you want it to in the golf swing.

[97speedster]

Tiger's driver swing sequence from multiple angles in 2000 when he dominated the golfing world. I drew lines on it emphasize some key points he moves in the swing that are all spot on. The closest current swing to this one on Tour is Adam Scott. Frame 2 shows what awesome right arm width he had back then and his impact position shows how square his shoulders were in comparison to his open hips.

 

 

 

 

 

[salmon2]

> @97speedster said:

> @salmon2 I’ll try, but it’s pretty easy... just hold both handles and make swings getting the body to work like you want it to in the golf swing.

 

Do you keep your arms relatively straight the whole time or do you allow the elbows to fold up towards top of backswing as they would in a more complete swing?

[97speedster]

> @salmon2 said:

> > @97speedster said:

> > @salmon2 I’ll try, but it’s pretty easy... just hold both handles and make swings getting the body to work like you want it to in the golf swing.

>

> Do you keep your arms relatively straight the whole time or do you allow the elbows to fold up towards top of backswing as they would in a more complete swing?

 

From waist high to the top of the backswing the right elbow folds, but never passed 90*.... the Right Angle 2 helps groove the width and shorter backswing with less right elbow flexion. After waist high on the follow through the left elbow folds.

 

 

[salmon2]

> @97speedster said:

> > @salmon2 said:

> > > @97speedster said:

> > > @salmon2 I’ll try, but it’s pretty easy... just hold both handles and make swings getting the body to work like you want it to in the golf swing.

> >

> > Do you keep your arms relatively straight the whole time or do you allow the elbows to fold up towards top of backswing as they would in a more complete swing?

>

> From waist high to the top of the backswing the right elbow folds, but never passed 90*.... the Right Angle 2 helps groove the width and shorter backswing with less right elbow flexion. After waist high on the follow through the left elbow folds.

>

>

 

I should have been more specific. I meant do you allow the arms to fold when using the medicine ball or keep them relatively straight and focus more on body motion?

[DonRSD]

> @97speedster said:

> Tiger's driver swing sequence from multiple angles in 2000 when he dominated the golfing world. I drew lines on it emphasize some key points he moves in the swing that are all spot on. The closest current swing to this one on Tour is Adam Scott. Frame 2 shows what awesome right arm width he had back then and his impact position shows how square his shoulders were in comparison to his open hips.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

@97speedster - Tiger's right elbow is WAY PAST 1/2 setting on the RA2 and also he is wide and parallel. Maybe the RS2 should be set to full to allow a full backswing, not a 1/2 short backswing ala Finau.

[TIM929]

****77> @97speedster said:

> One thing I'm constantly working on is my release. I see too many golfers that think the head stays down until well after impact; this move in the golf swing causes a lot of lower back injuries and golfers hanging back. Butch Harmon wants the eyes to release through impact and follow the ball to the target with your eyes... the better your eyes track the ball down the target line, the easier and better your club and body will release through impact. A few of the best players at doing this are Henrik Stenson, Jim Furyk and Annika Sorestam; back in the day when he could play, David Duval also did this well and when he tried to change it in the early 2000's, he lost his game.

>

> Here is Tiger's release from 2000 when he ruled the golfing world.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Below here is David Duval in 1999 through the ball after he won the British Open and before he tried to change his swing...

>

>

>

> Three of the best releases all track the ball with their eyes through impact: Henrik Stenson, Aniika Sorenstam and Jim Furyk. Jim has always had a funky back swing, but on the down and through swing he does a lot of great things in his swing.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> When I practice I have to consciously work on trying to track the ball with my eyes after impact, but I also like to work on this more statically indoors with an impact bag where I take my normal address position with the grip pointing at my sternum, then I lean the shaft forward into the impact bag (without taking a back swing) while I let my head rotates left towards the target; don't work on leaning the shaft left while looking down with your head. I'll do 10-25 reps of this and then another 10-25 reps of full back swings and downswings into the impact bag with forward shaft lean and feeling like my eyes are tracking down the target line before my shaft even reaches the impact bag.

>

>

>

>

 

Thank you @97speedster. This move really helps me release my whole body through the swing and prevents hooks(when I use too much arms/hands). After transition, a full body release(including head turn) through the ball is my feel now and really holds up on the course, thanks again!

[97speedster]

> @salmon2 said:

> > @97speedster said:

> > > @salmon2 said:

> > > > @97speedster said:

> > > > @salmon2 I’ll try, but it’s pretty easy... just hold both handles and make swings getting the body to work like you want it to in the golf swing.

> > >

> > > Do you keep your arms relatively straight the whole time or do you allow the elbows to fold up towards top of backswing as they would in a more complete swing?

> >

> > From waist high to the top of the backswing the right elbow folds, but never passed 90*.... the Right Angle 2 helps groove the width and shorter backswing with less right elbow flexion. After waist high on the follow through the left elbow folds.

> >

> >

>

> I should have been more specific. I meant do you allow the arms to fold when using the medicine ball or keep them relatively straight and focus more on body motion?

 

I exaggerate it with the medicine ball to a comfortable level.

 

[97speedster]

> @DonRSD said:

> @97speedster - Tiger's right elbow is WAY PAST 1/2 setting on the RA2 and also he is wide and parallel. Maybe the RS2 should be set to full to allow a full backswing, not a 1/2 short backswing ala Finau.

 

Butch ONLY wants it set on HALF and with it set to HALF I also get to parallel, but I do it by increasing my shoulder coil, not my arm swing. Only use it on the HALF setting, trust me, it makes a huge difference to width and shoulder rotation, I’ve video taped it both ways AND Butch has been ranked as the top instructor for 26 years for a reason ?.

 

This is with The Right Angle 2 set on half....