How to add Width and be on Plane

[DonRSD]

> @97speedster said:

> > @DonRSD said:

> > @97speedster - Tiger's right elbow is WAY PAST 1/2 setting on the RA2 and also he is wide and parallel. Maybe the RS2 should be set to full to allow a full backswing, not a 1/2 short backswing ala Finau.

>

> Butch ONLY wants it set on HALF and with it set to HALF I also get to parallel, but I do it by increasing my shoulder coil, not my arm swing. Only use it on the HALF setting, trust me, it makes a huge difference to width and shoulder rotation, I’ve video taped it both ways AND Butch has been ranked as the top instructor for 26 years for a reason ?.

>

> This is with The Right Angle 2 set on half....

>

>

>

>

>

 

Didint notice you had it on until you mentioned it!

Going to hit some balls later today at the range......Im a range warrior and fold like a cheap suit on the course lol

[lenman73]

After reading this thread I purchased one and it arrived today. Took it out in the yard for a few swings. All I can saw is wow. I finally got the feel of what I was trying to fix for a while now. I am not saying I am fixed already, but can see with diligence this can and will help. Much more work to do but at least now I know what the move I was working for feels like. Thanks for starting this thread.

[jc4birdie]

Having used RA2, I think the half setting is recommended by Butch to ingrain the short, wide FEEL. I've not seen 1 in 100 golfers who actually swing as compact as they FEEL they do. I myself have videoed myself trying to do half-swing drills and I NEVER keep it to truly half swings...it's always a 3/4 when I see the video proof in the pudding.

[ALIF]

> @Wedgefromhere said:

> > @97speedster said:

> > > @Wedgefromhere said:

> > > So after practicing with the RA2 and Gravityfit, I'm now getting wider, but I find that I'm hitting a lot of pushes, pretty severe.....maybe around 20 degrees.

> > >

> > > Any ideas why this could happen? Are my hands late because I'm not used to them being wide at the top? Do I need more rotation because before I might have stalled and flipped and now the flipping has diminished?

> >

> > Post a video so I can see, but it sounds like it's your release. If you’re hitting it right try making split grip practice swings then hitting a ball.

> I recorded a swing from when I played this morning. This is the first time I've seen my swing since I started working on it. I'm still moving off the ball and the arms break down at the top, so I still have a lot to work on. This shot was pushed right like I've been seeing in my practice.

>

>

>

 

Shoulder turn is too flat and no left lateral band at the top of your backswing. Your only choices are to push it or flip it or if timed perfectly, hit a decent shot.

 

[97speedster]

@jc4birdie said:

> Having used RA2, I think the half setting is recommended by Butch to ingrain the short, wide FEEL. I've not seen 1 in 100 golfers who actually swing as compact as they FEEL they do. I myself have videoed myself trying to do half-swing drills and I NEVER keep it to truly half swings...it's always a 3/4 when I see the video proof in the pudding.

 

Exactly right! Short backswing doesn't mean less power and in many cases it means more power due to better sequencing.

 

[blehnhard]

Ordered RA2 today. Due in early next week.

DJ, quick question on your release. Do you feel it release naturally (free hinge) or do you feel muscular effort? Also your thoughts on Stenson's sitting on his right hip as starting move of his backswing?

[97speedster]

My review of the GravityFit Golf Kit; I’m not a fan and I think the Right Angle 2 is much better. The elasticity of the GravityFit pulls the left arm plane too low at the top of the backswing.

 

With the GravityFit

 

 

 

A couple of days ago after lots of practice with the Right Angle 2

 

 

The Right Angle 2 blows the GravityFit Tpro away in my opinion; I like how the RA2 keeps the right arm extended whereas the tension of the GravityFit does the opposite. It has some merit as far as helping get the posture good and it might be good for the short game, but I definitely don’t like it for width on full swings, especially in comparison to the Right Angle 2 which is great for width.

 

[97speedster]

> @blehnhard said:

> Ordered RA2 today. Due in early next week.

> DJ, quick question on your release. Do you feel it release naturally (free hinge) or do you feel muscular effort? Also your thoughts on Stenson's sitting on his right hip as starting move of his backswing?

 

I don’t work hard to release the club, it happens naturally if my plane and body sequence is good.

 

That’s just Stenson’s own swing trigger, just like Jack Nicklaus cocked his head. He has a great swing, but that trigger isn’t what makes it great, it just puts him in motion.

 

[North Butte]

> @Wedgefromhere said:

> I recorded a swing from when I played this morning. This is the first time I've seen my swing since I started working on it. I'm still moving off the ball and the arms break down at the top, so I still have a lot to work on. This shot was pushed right like I've been seeing in my practice.

>

>

>

 

Wow, if you mirrored that video to make it look lefty I'd think it was me. I had a buddy video a couple of my swings recently and it's spooky how alike we look.

 

FWIW, I also suffer from (lefty) big blocks when I swing like that.

[LyinEye]

> @Wedgefromhere said:

>

>

Numerous issues at setup but extreme tension stood out first, so much so a phlebotomist would smack you but silly. It's a relaxing game, don't fight it.

 

 

[TMoakley1547]

> @97speedster said:

> My review of the GravityFit Golf Kit; I’m not a fan and I think the Right Angle 2 is much better. The elasticity of the GravityFit pulls the left arm plane too low at the top of the backswing.

>

> With the GravityFit

>

>

>

>

> A couple of days ago after lots of practice with the Right Angle 2

>

>

>

> The Right Angle 2 blows the GravityFit Tpro away in my opinion; I like how the RA2 keeps the right arm extended whereas the tension of the GravityFit does the opposite. It has some merit as far as helping get the posture good and it might be good for the short game, but I definitely don’t like it for width on full swings, especially in comparison to the Right Angle 2 which is great for width.

>

 

That GravityFit looks like a narrow trainer, rather than a width trainer.

[iteachgolf]

> @TMoakley1547 said:

> > @97speedster said:

> > My review of the GravityFit Golf Kit; I’m not a fan and I think the Right Angle 2 is much better. The elasticity of the GravityFit pulls the left arm plane too low at the top of the backswing.

> >

> > With the GravityFit

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > A couple of days ago after lots of practice with the Right Angle 2

> >

> >

> >

> > The Right Angle 2 blows the GravityFit Tpro away in my opinion; I like how the RA2 keeps the right arm extended whereas the tension of the GravityFit does the opposite. It has some merit as far as helping get the posture good and it might be good for the short game, but I definitely don’t like it for width on full swings, especially in comparison to the Right Angle 2 which is great for width.

> >

>

> That GravityFit looks like a narrow trainer, rather than a width trainer.

 

Couldn’t be more opposite. Requires you to do the work to maintain the width rather than be passive which results more retention and more width when not using it.

 

His backswing wouldn’t be any lower if he applied the outward force required to maintain the same width. The fact that it’s harder is the whole point.

[iteachgolf]


 

Can maintain width perfectly fine with GravityFit. It forces YOU to do it rather than passively making it happen. The tension is there to make it harder and as a result only gets better when taken off. It will only make you narrow if you don’t apply enough extensor action, which will require you do get better at it.

[jgonz69]

Guess he wasn't leaving this thread

[97speedster]

> @iteachgolf said:

> 

>

> Can maintain width perfectly fine with GravityFit. It forces YOU to do it rather than passively making it happen. The tension is there to make it harder and as a result only gets better when taken off. It will only make you narrow if you don’t apply enough extensor action, which will require you do get better at it.

 

What about arm length? I’m 6’3” with a 5’11” arm span. I’m sticking with Butch’s recommendation of the Right Angle 2 set on half. While it might work for some, I’m not a fan of of that feel of resisting the band pulling you in when the Right Angle 2 pushes you away. We all got opinions, but what’s right for some isn’t always right for all.

 

 

[vernon]

C'mon man - the guy's a GREAT instructor and teaches some of the best players in the world. A lot of us would like to hear to what he has to say whether or not everybody agrees with it or even if it doesn't work for you, me or whomever.

More information and more discussion/debate is always a good thing no matter the topic.

Too many valuable contributors have left this forum because they got tired of being ridiculed just for trying to help.

For FREE.

[jgonz69]

The man said he would leave the thread. A man’s word means a lot.

[97speedster]

> @vernon said:

> C'mon man - the guy's a GREAT instructor and teaches some of the best players in the world. A lot of us would like to hear to what he has to say whether or not everybody agrees with it or even if it doesn't work for you, me or whomever.

> More information and more discussion/debate is always a good thing no matter the topic.

> Too many valuable contributors have left this forum because they got tired of being ridiculed just for trying to help.

> For FREE.

 

I never said he wasn’t a good instructor. My first interaction with him was him telling me how bad Butch’s camera angles were etc....

 

Either way, I’m not here to argue the golf swing, camera angles, Butch or anything else.... just trying to share my experiences learning from a well regarded instructor without being belittled for the information.

 

I have no agenda other than to share some information that might help others. He’s welcome to start his own thread on how HE believes width should be grooved if he doesn’t agree the information here.

 

[iteachgolf]

> @jgonz69 said:

> The man said he would leave the thread. A man’s word means a lot.

 

Actually I didn’t. I said I wouldn’t post period anymore. And it was obviously sarcastic.

 

 

[Krt22]

> @jgonz69 said:

> The man said he would leave the thread. A man’s word means a lot.

 

Why would you not want input/free information from someone who teaches PGA tour pros?

[iteachgolf]

Yep > @97speedster said:

> > @vernon said:

> > C'mon man - the guy's a GREAT instructor and teaches some of the best players in the world. A lot of us would like to hear to what he has to say whether or not everybody agrees with it or even if it doesn't work for you, me or whomever.

> > More information and more discussion/debate is always a good thing no matter the topic.

> > Too many valuable contributors have left this forum because they got tired of being ridiculed just for trying to help.

> > For FREE.

>

> I never said he wasn’t a good instructor, I never heard of him before. But I do know he came here before and was pretty condescending. My first interaction with him was him telling me how bad Butch’s camera angles were etc... I don’t know if Butch knows who Dan is, but I’m pretty sure Dan knows that Butch has been the number rated instructor for decades.

>

> Either way, I’m not here to argue the golf swing, camera angles, Butch or anything else.... just trying to share my experiences learning from a well regarded instructor without being belittled for the information.

>

> The posts might be free, but the lessons he’s given WRX members from his 16,000 posts weren’t. I have no agenda or alternative motive other than to share my own information that might help others which is truly free.

>

 

Nobody belittled you at all. All I said was camera angles were poor, and they were as the player was aimed decent amount left of the camera. Those camera angles will skew how the swings looks and isn’t an accurate representation of what is happening. Pointed it out because when comparing 2D stills accurate and consistent camera angles are very important. Funny thing is I’ve posted about feeling right arm feeling straight and width for 13 years on here. You think I’m arguing when I agree with most of what you’ve posted.

 

I didn’t say anything negative about Butch as an instructor and I have a ton of respect for what he has done for all instructors. I didn’t even say anything negative about you.

[97speedster]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @jgonz69 said:

> > The man said he would leave the thread. A man’s word means a lot.

>

> Why would you not want input/free information from someone who teaches PGA tour pros?

 

I have a good teacher who teaches plenty of PGA Tour winners, not PGA Tour players.

 

I’m moving on, I have no desire to argue.

 

 

[Krt22]

> @97speedster said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @jgonz69 said:

> > > The man said he would leave the thread. A man’s word means a lot.

> >

> > Why would you not want input/free information from someone who teaches PGA tour pros?

>

> I have a good teacher who teaches plenty of PGA Tour winners, not PGA Tour players. I’m fine with discussions when then it doesn’t come off as condescending or as a know it all. You’re only as good as the horses in your stable.

>

>

 

Absolutely silly metric IMO. The difference between a good tour player and a winner is honestly extremely small. Much smaller difference than your average pro vs your average amateur.

 

If you really want to judge an instructor, look at their junior/college players.

 

And most students (even of elite coaches) still are not subject matter experts

[golfho50]

What is best/recommended place to purchase the Right Angle 2 device.

[DonRSD]

@97speedster - quick question about transition / hips......

While I am ending my backswing with the wrists cocking, should my front hip go forward due to the weight being transferred on the left leg OR should my left hip rotate behind my body?

 

[97speedster]

> @golfho50 said:

> What is best/recommended place to purchase the Right Angle 2 device.

 

They are the owner, they make them and sell them. https://www.golftrainingaids.com/products/right-angle-2

 

[97speedster]

> @DonRSD said:

> @97speedster - quick question about transition / hips......

> While I am ending my backswing with the wrists cocking, should my front hip go forward due to the weight being transferred on the left leg OR should my left hip rotate behind my body?

>

 

First, I’m not intentionally cocking my wrists and before you even complete the backswing your weight is shifting back to the target from the ground up. This is subtle, not forced... if you force it you will get early extension and lose your spine angle.

[buckeyefl]

> @97speedster said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > 

> >

> > Can maintain width perfectly fine with GravityFit. It forces YOU to do it rather than passively making it happen. The tension is there to make it harder and as a result only gets better when taken off. It will only make you narrow if you don’t apply enough extensor action, which will require you do get better at it.

>

> What about arm length? I’m 6’3” with a 5’11” arm span. Either way, I’ll let you use it with your students, but I’m sticking with Butch’s recommendation of the Right Angle 2 set on half. While it might work for some, I’m not a fan of of that feel when the Right Angle 2 pushes you away versus pulling towards. We all got opinions, but what’s right for some isn’t always right for all.

>

>

 

It would be good if everyone remembered that because it is true although some things are right for everyone. That is where good teachers excel because they know that saying something like "keep your back to the target longer" or any of a thousand other one liners can help one person and be complete poison for another. Butch and every other great teacher knows this and chooses their words wisely. That is why blindly following random strangers tips when you physically have nothing in common, know nothing of their background and abilities are at different levels is a path that usually leads to just more compensations and new problems.

[97speedster]

> @jut111 said:

> > @97speedster said:

> > > @jut111 said:

> > > Your only allowed to praise op and ooh and aww at the pretty tiger stills. Otherwise he nukes the whole thing. Didn’t y’all get the memo?

> >

> > Wow, another condescending pr!ck decided to chime in!

> >

> >

> Just gonna quote that cause I know your fond of editing and deleting after the fact.

>

 

You might want to edit it yourself so it includes the stuff I added after you quoted it. Now carry on to a thread you might have something to add to.

 

 

[97speedster]

> @iteachgolf said:

> Yep > @97speedster said:

> > > @vernon said:

> > > C'mon man - the guy's a GREAT instructor and teaches some of the best players in the world. A lot of us would like to hear to what he has to say whether or not everybody agrees with it or even if it doesn't work for you, me or whomever.

> > > More information and more discussion/debate is always a good thing no matter the topic.

> > > Too many valuable contributors have left this forum because they got tired of being ridiculed just for trying to help.

> > > For FREE.

> >

> > I never said he wasn’t a good instructor, I never heard of him before. But I do know he came here before and was pretty condescending. My first interaction with him was him telling me how bad Butch’s camera angles were etc... I don’t know if Butch knows who Dan is, but I’m pretty sure Dan knows that Butch has been the number rated instructor for decades.

> >

> > Either way, I’m not here to argue the golf swing, camera angles, Butch or anything else.... just trying to share my experiences learning from a well regarded instructor without being belittled for the information.

> >

> > The posts might be free, but the lessons he’s given WRX members from his 16,000 posts weren’t. I have no agenda or alternative motive other than to share my own information that might help others which is truly free.

> >

>

> Nobody belittled you at all. All I said was camera angles were poor, and they were as the player was aimed decent amount left of the camera. Those camera angles will skew how the swings looks and isn’t an accurate representation of what is happening. Pointed it out because when comparing 2D stills accurate and consistent camera angles are very important. Funny thing is I’ve posted about feeling right arm feeling straight and width for 13 years on here. You think I’m arguing when I agree with most of what you’ve posted.

>

> I didn’t say anything negative about Butch as an instructor and I have a ton of respect for what he has done for all instructors. I didn’t even say anything negative about you.

 

Well forgive me then. The great thing about Butch (and maybe yourself too) is he fixes the cancer. Most teachers would of changed Dustin’s severely bowed wrist, but Butch made it an asset.

 

My issues are I have short arms and slow hips and therefore I use both to help me hit it straight, not long. Maybe long for a 52 year old, but not for my size. I’d love to have arms that could reach for the sky like that student, but I couldn’t get there even if I wanted to. I’d also love to see 2 cheeks at impact, but with all my injuries that ain’t happening either so I just dance with the date I bought.