How to add Width and be on Plane

[iteachgolf]

Keeping your back to the target was a “fix” because of how your lower body worked. It’s not something most should think about if they fix the root cause of the issue.

 

 

And man their camera angles weren’t consistent or accurate back then

[redraider1685]

> @garyt said:

> > @97speedster said:

> > @redraider1685 keeping the shoulders closed might not work for you, but it can help stop the shoulders from opening too soon and forcing the plane steep and over the top AND get the sequencing correct. It’s a very slight move that definitely shallows the shaft when done correctly.

> >

> > I don’t mean this in a bad way, but I’d love to see your swing so I can visualize why you might not like or need that feel in your game?

>

> I'm betting no video is forthcoming ?

 

Oh I'll post my swing I'm on a flight back home I'll post it later tonight

 

However rotating your shoulders does not cause the club to steepen. The back to the target works for you because of your lower body movement pattern and how square to Target your hips are at impact

 

In proper sequencing the hips fire milliseconds before the shoulders in the downswing. So can the feel help some? Yes but it can destroy people's swings because it is mostly a band aid not the truth

 

The shoulders should be open at impact

 

[97speedster]

Removed

[redraider1685]

> @97speedster said:

> > @redraider1685 said:

> >

> > However rotating your shoulders does not cause the club to steepen. The back to the target works for you because of your lower body movement pattern and how square to Target your hips are at impact

> >

>

> Opening your shoulders too soon in the downswing definitely steepens the shaft... actually my hips start moving towards the target before I even complete my backswing. Butch Harmon has a pretty good track record of teaching.

>

>

>

 

I'm not doubting butch's track record this is just discussion nothing personal or life threatening. I appreciate that you got on here and posted your thoughts it's not easy to do.

 

My question is, what does your hips firing before you complete your backswing have to do with your shoulders staying closed in transition?

 

[wmblake2000]

> @97speedster said:

> Removed

 

Wow...you removed all your posts. Shame. Oh well...

[TIM929]

What just happened? why is everything removed.... this thread was GOLD.

[Krt22]

> @TIM929 said:

> What just happened? why is everything removed.... this thread was GOLD.

 

It had a hint of infomercial to it, enough to make me wonder if the OP was benefiting from sales of the swing aid mentioned....just my initial feeling from the OP

[TIM929]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @TIM929 said:

> > What just happened? why is everything removed.... this thread was GOLD.

>

> It had a hint of infomercial to it, enough to make me wonder if the OP was benefiting from sales of the swing aid mentioned....just my initial feeling from the OP

 

oh wow... it was really good info though, width.. the book he mentioned " be the target" is really well written and easy to understand as well.

 

it's kind of sad because of the all good information this thread was building, I was looking forward to his post while it was going on and learned a lot during that short period of time.

 

Im thankful I was able to read while it lasted..

[lchang]

What just happened?!

[TIM929]

> @lchang said:

> What just happened?!

 

Apparently, everyone just saw a shooting star that is no more.

[97speedster]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @TIM929 said:

> > What just happened? why is everything removed.... this thread was GOLD.

>

> It had a hint of infomercial to it, enough to make me wonder if the OP was benefiting from sales of the swing aid mentioned....just my initial feeling from the OP

 

I own a real estate company. The Right Angle 2 is owned by Golf Around the World. If you saw my DM’s you might understand, but I got better things to do with my time than argue my golf swing or Butch being wrong LOL. My apologies

 

 

[jut111]

> @97speedster said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @TIM929 said:

> > > What just happened? why is everything removed.... this thread was GOLD.

> >

> > It had a hint of infomercial to it, enough to make me wonder if the OP was benefiting from sales of the swing aid mentioned....just my initial feeling from the OP

>

> I own a real estate company. The Right Angle 2 is owned by Golf Around the World. If you saw my DM’s you might understand, but I got better things to do with my time than argue my golf swing or Butch being wrong LOL. My apologies

>

>

 

No one was arguing about your golf swing. You obviously have a great one. It was mentioned that a feel that helped you might not be right for everyone. How dare they!

 

Edit missed the dms reference. Obviously don’t know what’s going on there

 

 

[JDFish]

Sad. This is why we can't have nice things. Appreciate the info you provided in both threads @97Speedster, both of which have now denigrated into others having to argue they are right and there is apparently only one way to swing a golf club. It is a discussion group people, not a pissing match. If you don't agree with what is being discussed, just move on.

[commoditybroker]

So much good info that has helped me a ton.... Thank you for participating and your help DJ...

 

Too bad for dumb people messing up such a good thing....

[97speedster]

I’m just an amateur, not a teacher, that tries to help others get better too. I have nothing to gain financially or otherwise, I just love golf.... that’s it.

[Hilts1969]

Removing the posts was a bit OTT to be honest. I think if people don’t want debate on what they are posting they should state it from the offset so posters needn’t waste their time. And I believe speedster gave a lot of good info but taking your ball home to the detriment of people who were positive about the posts ain’t good.

[parmark]

Thanks for all your suggestions and ideas.

[lchang]

So some nasty DMs were sent to you, which made you remove everything?! That sucks. For you and for us. I don’t suppose you’d reconsider?

[Krt22]

> @TIM929 said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @TIM929 said:

> > > What just happened? why is everything removed.... this thread was GOLD.

> >

> > It had a hint of infomercial to it, enough to make me wonder if the OP was benefiting from sales of the swing aid mentioned....just my initial feeling from the OP

>

> oh wow... it was really good info though, width.. the book he mentioned " be the target" is really well written and easy to understand as well.

 

Yes, it was a pretty good thread with> @97speedster said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @TIM929 said:

> > > What just happened? why is everything removed.... this thread was GOLD.

> >

> > It had a hint of infomercial to it, enough to make me wonder if the OP was benefiting from sales of the swing aid mentioned....just my initial feeling from the OP

>

> I own a real estate company. The Right Angle 2 is owned by Golf Around the World. If you saw my DM’s you might understand, but I got better things to do with my time than argue my golf swing or Butch being wrong LOL. My apologies

>

>

 

All good, I did not have a problem with your post either way, good info and great improvement on your part.

[redraider1685]

I was just engaging in discussion I never sent a dm or anything else

 

I would not personally attack someone over golf swing theory

 

Sad that we cannot have an open discussion

[LyinEye]

> @redraider1685 said:

> I was just engaging in discussion I never sent a dm or anything else

>

> I would not personally attack someone over golf swing theory

>

> Sad that we cannot have an open discussion

 

Ok then, let's discuss this:

 

> @redraider1685 said:>

> The shoulders should be open at impact

>

Universally true?

 

 

[redraider1685]

> @"Ping's Duck" said:

> > @redraider1685 said:

> > I was just engaging in discussion I never sent a dm or anything else

> >

> > I would not personally attack someone over golf swing theory

> >

> > Sad that we cannot have an open discussion

>

> Ok then, let's discuss this:

>

> > @redraider1685 said:>

> > The shoulders should be open at impact

> >

> Universally true?

>

>

 

Universal truths are rare in golf but I would say having the shoulders open at impact is important

 

[MK7Golf21]

> @97speedster said:

> I’m just an amateur, not a teacher, that tries to help others get better too. I have nothing to gain financially or otherwise, I just love golf.... that’s it.

 

I enjoyed your posts, very cool to see how Butch worked with a golfer back in Tigers prime. I thought there was some good discussion here even the ones who challenged some of the teachings. I haven’t been in your other Ballard thread so I’m guessing that caused it.

[Hawkeye77]

Saw the thread title, looked in here - weird is all that comes to mind.

[wmblake2000]

> @97speedster said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @TIM929 said:

> > > What just happened? why is everything removed.... this thread was GOLD.

> >

> > It had a hint of infomercial to it, enough to make me wonder if the OP was benefiting from sales of the swing aid mentioned....just my initial feeling from the OP

>

> I own a real estate company. The Right Angle 2 is owned by Golf Around the World. If you saw my DM’s you might understand, but I got better things to do with my time than argue my golf swing or Butch being wrong LOL. My apologies

>

As someone who saw several similarities between what you described and what I am doing (although I am not nearly as skilled as you) I enjoyed the discussion. I also did not see any disrespectful posts by others (and can’t know about private messages) but actually thought the other ideas were also worth considering and was looking forward to the debate about different points so I might better understand pros and cons.

 

I am disappointed that you removed your post.

 

 

[ebrasmus21]

This thread was titts. Hit the undo button, OP.

[puresurfr]

I for one loved this thread and am sad that I only read a few pages, the information was brilliant and I rushed out and got a right angle 2 !!!!! If anything I learned that width is my friend and that keeping the right arm straight as long as possible will increase width. A lot of thought and work was posted by the OP.

 

I guess ill just unbox the right angle 2 and set it at half and start whacking away....if any body here wants to continue the great tips on using this tool as well as the golf theory of the OP that would be great

 

 

[97speedster]

> @redraider1685 said:

>

> Universal truths are rare in golf but I would say having the shoulders open at impact is important

>

 

Universal? You must try to hit a fade and swing left after impact, not release the club down the line like I try to do? I really want to see your release through the ball for myself, so kindly post a video.

 

Generally a good player that prefers to fade the ball will be SLIGHTLY open with his shoulders and slightly closed to draw the ball. The key is to match the ball flight preference with the swing plane, shoulder alignment and release that complement one another, but to say it's universal, I wouldn't go that far. In golf, nothing is universal... just look at Dustin Johnson who defies a lot of teaching philosophies. Really good players (I have no idea if you fit this category until you post that video) tend to match their body rotation through impact with their grip; a player with a strong left hand grip will have their shoulders SLIGHTLY open at impact, BUT if the shoulders are TOO open you can't release the club and will wipe it all day long!

 

I have very slow hips through the ball so I can't afford to open my shoulders at impact and therefore my belt buckle and shoulders face the ball and my right foot stays on the ground into impact. This used to bother me, but I have had two really good PGA Tour players compliment me on that which I started to realize might be more of a blessing than a curse because too much hip speed makes synchronisation extremely difficult in the golf swing, that is why Tiger is always working on slowing his hips down.... there is an old saying, "if you spin, you will never win."!

 

I'm a player, not a teacher and don't pretend to know every method known to mankind, BUT I do know my own swing better than anyone and that is all I'm sharing here, nothing UNIVERSAL about it!

 

 

**Sam Snead**

 

 

 

**Ben Hogan**

 

 

 

**Tiger Woods**

 

 

 

**Dustin Johnson**

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jut111]

Wow

[Hawkeye77]

Now crawled back out of his hole (his words) and added back a few new and selected posts? Not getting this at all, but seems a little attention driven more than educational. Sounds like some others were enjoying the thread so yes, I agree with some above, kind of disappointing OP took his toys and went home - but now he's back, lol, due to popular demand. Hope it works out from here.