Where are you playing tomorrow - Chicago (Round 3)

[geochitown]

23 minutes ago, mci711 said:

If anyone is looking for a weekend getaway to a great new course I highly suggest checking out the Pfau Course at Indiana University. It is top notch. It definitely competes with the French Lick courses. It is also BRUTAL. My buddy and I played Sultan's run last night and shot 69 (him) 75 (me). And neither of us broke 80 today at IU. Will be interesting to see when they start hosting division 1 tournaments. 

 

Read about it last year, and saw photos, looks to be a very impressive place.

[geochitown]

5 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

It's happened a couple of times, but it still irks me. 'Just not a lot of quality courses on the road to Toledo. I've played Blackthorn and Warren several times. I was in Toledo a few years ago and checked off the best of the bunch there. Probably should have headed to Cleveland, and backtracked. The Cleveland area has quite a few of the best Ohio courses within 15 miles. 

 

 

Is Island Hills anything like Mistwood?

 

I only ask because I believe Ray Hearn designed both, and also the Flossmoor renovation, which most probably know.

[geochitown]

5 hours ago, DavePelz4 said:

 

Flossmoor is the most under-rated private club in Chicago. Amazing layout, with perfect greens and some really tough holes.  17 has to be in the top 10 toughest holes in Chicago.  Great advice on staying below the hole, too.  Looking forward to your review.

 

There was exactly such a list back in the 1920's and Flossmoor's 17th was on it.

[geochitown]

6 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

Change of plan. Flossmoor tomorrow instead. Never been there. Looking forward to it.

 

If you like to read about courses, this is a good write-up on the Flossmoor work and history of the course...

 

Golf Club AtlasOhlendorf, Greg M. – Flossmoor Country Club | Golf Club Atlas

 

[B-Man]

43 minutes ago, geochitown said:

 

If you like to read about courses, this is a good write-up on the Flossmoor work and history of the course...

 

Golf Club AtlasOhlendorf, Greg M. – Flossmoor Country Club | Golf Club Atlas

 

That's an expansive article. I'll read it after tomorrow's round. Thanks.

[geochitown]

44 minutes ago, B-Man said:

That's an expansive article. I'll read it after tomorrow's round. Thanks.

enjoy your round!

[TheBear95]

Last night, I stopped by PGA Tour Store in Vernon Hills for a putter grip change. I can't buy a putt outside 8 feet at the minute, so I'm searching, lol. 

 

Anyway, I saw their swing grip section, good lord. Pretty much out of everything. I know the OEMs are dealing with issues on custom orders, but I was somewhat shocked to see a major retailer that out of stock. I also laughed about how many SKUs Golf Pride currently has with their MCC teams series. All these SKUs and none in stock.

[ldchristopher]

I played an early round at Aberdeen today. First time there in a few years. The course was in very good shape considering the rain NWI has had. The bunkers were washed out or being pumped and the area in front of the 12th green (the one with the huge marsh and blind iron shot where all players can see is the top of the pin) was swampy but everything else was very good sans a few uneven tee boxes. It’s a flat rate to walk or ride but $38 is tough to beat for that layout. It’s an easy, albeit longish 7 mile walk as well. I played in my usual 2:40. Hitting 11 greens helped immensely. I drove the ball really well and also had my 3 wood really working. I made one birdie putt on 7 but should have had a lot more. Burned edges or was one rotation short on way too many putts. Still, a good 73. I appreciate that Aberdeen is another course that doesn’t even put the markers out for the tips. I’m seeing more sub-7000 yard courses do that to encourage improved pace of play. 

[mci711]

2 hours ago, TheBear95 said:

Last night, I stopped by PGA Tour Store in Vernon Hills for a putter grip change. I can't buy a putt outside 8 feet at the minute, so I'm searching, lol. 

 

Anyway, I saw their swing grip section, good lord. Pretty much out of everything. I know the OEMs are dealing with issues on custom orders, but I was somewhat shocked to see a major retailer that out of stock. I also laughed about how many SKUs Golf Pride currently has with their MCC teams series. All these SKUs and none in stock.

 

Container ship tipped with a massive shipment of grips to the US. Grips will be hard to come by for a while. Also part of that shipment was ping equipment and shafts. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by mci711

[chisag]

Just now, mci711 said:

 

Container ship tipped with a massive shipment of grips to the US. Grips will be hard to come by for a while. Also part of that shipment was ping equipment and shafts. 

 

... This is a HUGE pet peeve from OEM's. Order a club and it is on a 2-3 month back order. Take a close look at a sight like TM and you see :

Head can ship 7/20
Shaft can ship 7/20
Grip can ship 9/25 ... WTF?!?!? Just let the customer know which grips you have in stock that can can ship on 7/20. 

[geochitown]

golf galaxy at vernon hills has a decent amount of grips.

I heard that they were short and expecting a bunch over a month back

[TheBear95]

1 hour ago, geochitown said:

golf galaxy at vernon hills has a decent amount of grips.

I heard that they were short and expecting a bunch over a month back

Yeah, I should have added that. I was in the Golf Galaxy in Vernon Hills about three weeks ago, they had plenty of grips. You would never know there was a grip shortage. That's partly why I was so surprised by what I saw at the Tour Store.

Edited July 8, 2021 by TheBear95

[psygolf]

6 hours ago, TheBear95 said:

Last night, I stopped by PGA Tour Store in Vernon Hills for a putter grip change. I can't buy a putt outside 8 feet at the minute, so I'm searching, lol. 

 

Anyway, I saw their swing grip section, good lord. Pretty much out of everything. I know the OEMs are dealing with issues on custom orders, but I was somewhat shocked to see a major retailer that out of stock. I also laughed about how many SKUs Golf Pride currently has with their MCC teams series. All these SKUs and none in stock.

I’ll throw a heads up to everyone that wears the Players glove...Titleist is out of stock until Oct eta, load up now.

[MountainKing]

PGA SS in Downers had a decent amount of grips in stock.  I picked up half a dozen new decades the other day.  What was shocking is how picked over the equipment section was.  Almost no used clubs and a ton of empty racks.  Looked like a perfect storm of not being able to get equipment from OEM's and new golfers coming in and buying up things.

 

Played a solo round yesterday at Village Greens of Woodridge.  Figure I'd take advantage of that membership I have since I have the week off and wanted to play yesterday.  I normally am not a fan of flying solo when I know I'm getting paired up, but you only live once.  Ended up with two retired guys who were great, as I get older I am slightly jealous of those who no longer need to work.

 

Course was in shockingly good shape considering it's generally been a goat trail for many years.  Fairways were nice and filling in, greens were smooth and decent paced, tee boxes were better than most high end courses I've played this year.  With all the mention of ball marks, their greens were absent of them, I dunno if it's cause the level of golfer that plays there isn't hitting many greens or with the "membership" the guys going out there are taking care of the course, but it's nice to see.  Pace on the other the other hand, 4:30, but that seemed lightning quick compared to my almost 6 hour trek the other day.

 

My game was interesting.  Had a bad case of the snap hooks off the tee, but I was able to manage it and still keep the ball in play  and not get killed by it.  Hit the irons really well.  Came in with a 38 on the front thanks to a stupid double bogey on a stupid easy hole.  Back 9 I went on a tear with 4 birdies, then screwed it all up on 18.  I played for the snap and it went straight into mounds through the fairway.  I attempted to go for it anyway despite the ball being hip high, had the thinking with a birdie I could finish the back with a 31.  Nope, dead shank into the trees and ended up with a double bogey.  Still happy with the 34 and even par round.  Just need to figure this damn driver out.  

[MountainKing]

14 hours ago, psygolf said:

I’ll throw a heads up to everyone that wears the Players glove...Titleist is out of stock until Oct eta, load up now.

 

If anybody wants a good glove on the cheap hit up MGgolf.com.  The elite glove is $7.50 and it's as good as the gloves you get from the big names.  

[propman]

15 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

 

If anybody wants a good glove on the cheap hit up MGgolf.com.  The elite glove is $7.50 and it's as good as the gloves you get from the big names.  

Totally agree. Also get on their email listing, price is $6.99. Shipping is one set price ($3.50) no matter how many gloves one buys.

[MountainKing]

Just now, propman said:

Totally agree. Also get on their email listing, price is $6.99. Shipping is one set price ($3.50) no matter how many gloves one buys.

 

I think the price just recently jumped up.  I order a summers worth every year to maximize that shipping and they were $6.99.  I sweat a lot in the warmer weather and go through gloves like crazy so it was nice finding a good glove this cheap.

[DavePelz4]

30 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

 

If anybody wants a good glove on the cheap hit up MGgolf.com.  The elite glove is $7.50 and it's as good as the gloves you get from the big names.  

 

MK...just stop at your nearby Costco and you can pick up 4 high quality gloves for under $20.00.  And you can get 17 pounds of turkey tenders and a 4 ton floor jack while you're there, too.

[VNutz]

12 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

 

I think the price just recently jumped up.  I order a summers worth every year to maximize that shipping and they were $6.99.  I sweat a lot in the warmer weather and go through gloves like crazy so it was nice finding a good glove this cheap.

As @DavePelz4 says, the Costco gloves are legit and one of the best bargains in the game. As good as about anything IMO and without the velcro issues I've had with MG in the past.

[MountainKing]

7 minutes ago, DavePelz4 said:

 

MK...just stop at your nearby Costco and you can pick up 4 high quality gloves for under $20.00.  And you can get 17 pounds of turkey tenders and a 4 ton floor jack while you're there, too.

 

I can almost walk to the Costco in Oak Brook, but I hate going into stores and not sure I can instacart the gloves.  You have me curious tho.  Their website has them at $26.99?  Are they cheaper in store?

[TheBear95]

57 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

PGA SS in Downers had a decent amount of grips in stock.  I picked up half a dozen new decades the other day.  What was shocking is how picked over the equipment section was.  Almost no used clubs and a ton of empty racks.  Looked like a perfect storm of not being able to get equipment from OEM's and new golfers coming in and buying up things.

 

Played a solo round yesterday at Village Greens of Woodridge.  Figure I'd take advantage of that membership I have since I have the week off and wanted to play yesterday.  I normally am not a fan of flying solo when I know I'm getting paired up, but you only live once.  Ended up with two retired guys who were great, as I get older I am slightly jealous of those who no longer need to work.

 

Course was in shockingly good shape considering it's generally been a goat trail for many years.  Fairways were nice and filling in, greens were smooth and decent paced, tee boxes were better than most high end courses I've played this year.  With all the mention of ball marks, their greens were absent of them, I dunno if it's cause the level of golfer that plays there isn't hitting many greens or with the "membership" the guys going out there are taking care of the course, but it's nice to see.  Pace on the other the other hand, 4:30, but that seemed lightning quick compared to my almost 6 hour trek the other day.

 

My game was interesting.  Had a bad case of the snap hooks off the tee, but I was able to manage it and still keep the ball in play  and not get killed by it.  Hit the irons really well.  Came in with a 38 on the front thanks to a stupid double bogey on a stupid easy hole.  Back 9 I went on a tear with 4 birdies, then screwed it all up on 18.  I played for the snap and it went straight into mounds through the fairway.  I attempted to go for it anyway despite the ball being hip high, had the thinking with a birdie I could finish the back with a 31.  Nope, dead shank into the trees and ended up with a double bogey.  Still happy with the 34 and even par round.  Just need to figure this damn driver out.  

That is shocking about Village Greens of Woodridge. The course was directly in the path of that tornado that hit a few weeks ago.

[MountainKing]

17 minutes ago, TheBear95 said:

That is shocking about Village Greens of Woodridge. The course was directly in the path of that tornado that hit a few weeks ago.

 

It was a little eye opening seeing the houses in person behind the course.  The south end of the course lost a lot of trees. The most noticeable was the big tree that used to be in the front right of the 16th green, most of the others weren't really in play.  The 17th tee is also on what looks to be a temporary tee box.  I guess they had the course closed for a week to clean it up.  It looks like a lot of the trees/cleanup ended up in that area between the 17th green and 18th fairway.

[mci711]

I've used both the MG and Kirkland gloves. I think the MG may be better. The Kirklands i've had all felt different - like the sizes aren't perfect in the package. My biggest issue with both is they seem to stretch more than other gloves. After a few rounds they feel loose. I've found the maxfli elite glove is great for the cost. GG has them 2 for $30 and I have no sizing or stretching issues. 

[B-Man]

On 7/7/2021 at 7:47 PM, geochitown said:

enjoy your round!

 

FLOSSMOOR (7/8/21)

 

Well that was an interesting day. A July day that barely reached the 70s in the afternoon, heavily clouded with bad light and periods of light misty rain.

 

First time out at Flossmoor. We played off the Whites mainly and the Blues for the par 3s and 5s. I hit the ball great and on the lines I chose mostly but they were not always the right ones. Got me into trouble a few times but I can handle that playing there for the first time.

 

Condition-wise the course was fairly good. Greens were super slick with a lot of tightly-mown areas around them. Many different types of grasses on the green surrounds led to some interesting plays and shots. Whilst they were quite firm for bumping and running chip shots they weren't really puttable as even though they were tight, the grass would grab the ball and slow it down quickly. Bunkers were generally okay but not much sand in them and a few were baked mud and hadn't been maintained for a while. Rough was generally short but still deadly in terms of getting a decent lie to work with.

 

Regarding the course itself, it has a decent layout and kind of fun starting and finishing with par 5s. My first thoughts were that the 8th was a Mickey Mouse par-4 and also the 13th wasn't much of a great hole and after reading some history, these were the main changes on the recent renovation. The 8th is just brutal even were we played at 420 up about 50yrds from the tips. Not the best green shape with the pond in front for such a long hole. The 13th just seemed blah and stuck in the middle.

 

My main comment would be that for Flossmoor, and the two other courses in the area (Ravisloe and Midlothian), is that the shape of the most of the green complexes of 60-100 years ago cannot stand up to the green speeds of today. It has to be one or the other. Some of the green shapes for Flossmoor were quite odd for the type of hole. The 1st is a short par 5 with a massive green that slopes left to right consistently whereas the 6th is a long par 4 with a miniscule green that is extremely small and narrow with many undulations. The 12th green doesn't work as a par 4 green for that length of hole. The 14th green is too severe for the green speeds of today, and the 10th and 16th were similar. For example, the 16th hole was cut front left and I hit my best shot of the day to 2-feet behind the hole. If I was 2 feet below the hole, no chance of it staying on the green. Glad I could leave the flag in as I "rammed" it and smashed it into the flagstick. One of my playing partners was 4 feet above the hole and barely tapped it and it never lost speed until it almost rolled into the bunker. I had two downhill putts on 10 and 14 from 3-feet and missed both 15-footers for coming back up the slope.

 

Best hole on the course was the 15th, with the 2nd, 11th, 16th and 18th being great as well. The green for the 15th is almost too much though. Worst hole on the course is the 8th. The 17th gets great raves apparently but when you're forced to lay-up on a par 4 leaving you 190 out uphill, it didn't do much for me.

 

Many articles I've read is that the ownership want to make this course more accessible to all and less of a country club feel and leaning into a more open membership style, but the 4 of us who played yesterday didn't get that vibe at all and they have a long way to go if they want to achieve that.

 

Score-wise I hit a 5-iron on the 1st to 15' and just missed the eagle. Hit every green except the 3rd on the front 9 and didn't make any putts. Back nine was not so good. 5 bogeys and a double on 14. 35-42 for 77.

 

Overall, course and playing conditions 8/10, course routing/layout 7/10, course set-up (hole shapings/rough lines/green surrounds) 5/10. Now I'll get some popcorn whilst you guys fire back.  😄

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by B-Man

[Shriner]

Wow, all this talk of gloves makes me feel like I have saved quite a few dollars over the years!  I'm 40 and have never played with a glove, never liked the feel of it.

[Symphonize]

A buddy gave me a Kirkland glove earlier this year, and I’ve tried it multiple times, and I just can’t get to liking the feel of it. 

[DavePelz4]

2 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

FLOSSMOOR (7/8/21)

 

Well that was an interesting day. A July day that barely reached the 70s in the afternoon, heavily clouded with bad light and periods of light misty rain.

 

First time out at Flossmoor. We played off the Whites mainly and the Blues for the par 3s and 5s. I hit the ball great and on the lines I chose mostly but they were not always the right ones. Got me into trouble a few times but I can handle that playing there for the first time.

 

Condition-wise the course was fairly good. Greens were super slick with a lot of tightly-mown areas around them. Many different types of grasses on the green surrounds led to some interesting plays and shots. Whilst they were quite firm for bumping and running chip shots they weren't really puttable as even though they were tight, the grass would grab the ball and slow it down quickly. Bunkers were generally okay but not much sand in them and a few were baked mud and hadn't been maintained for a while. Rough was generally short but still deadly in terms of getting a decent lie to work with.

 

Regarding the course itself, it has a decent layout and kind of fun starting and finishing with par 5s. My first thoughts were that the 8th was a Mickey Mouse par-4 and also the 13th wasn't much of a great hole and after reading some history, these were the main changes on the recent renovation. The 8th is just brutal even were we played at 420 up about 50yrds from the tips. Not the best green shape with the pond in front for such a long hole. The 13th just seemed blah and stuck in the middle.

 

My main comment would be that for Flossmoor, and the two other courses in the area (Ravisloe and Midlothian), is that the shape of the most of the green complexes of 60-100 years ago cannot stand up to the green speeds of today. It has to be one or the other. Some of the green shapes for Flossmoor were quite odd for the type of hole. The 1st is a short par 5 with a massive green that slopes left to right consistently whereas the 6th is a long par 4 with a miniscule green that is extremely small and narrow with many undulations. The 12th green doesn't work as a par 4 green for that length of hole. The 14th green is too severe for the green speeds of today, and the 10th and 16th were similar. For example, the 16th hole was cut front left and I hit my best shot of the day to 2-feet behind the hole. If I was 2 feet below the hole, no chance of it staying on the green. Glad I could leave the flag in as I "rammed" it and smashed it into the flagstick. One of my playing partners was 4 feet above the hole and barely tapped it and it never lost speed until it almost rolled into the bunker. I had two downhill putts on 10 and 14 from 3-feet and missed both 15-footers for coming back up the slope.

 

Best hole on the course was the 15th, with the 2nd, 11th, 16th and 18th being great as well. The green for the 15th is almost too much though. Worst hole on the course is the 8th. The 17th gets great raves apparently but when you're forced to lay-up on a par 4 leaving you 190 out uphill, it didn't do much for me.

 

Many articles I've read is that the ownership want to make this course more accessible to all and less of a country club feel and leaning into a more open membership style, but the 4 of us who played yesterday didn't get that vibe at all and they have a long way to go if they want to achieve that.

 

Score-wise I hit a 5-iron on the 1st to 15' and just missed the eagle. Hit every green except the 3rd on the front 9 and didn't make any putts. Back nine was not so good. 5 bogeys and a double on 14. 35-42 for 77.

 

Overall, course and playing conditions 8/10, course routing/layout 7/10, course set-up (hole shapings/rough lines/green surrounds) 5/10. Now I'll get some popcorn whilst you guys fire back.  😄

 

 

 

 

Interesting thoughts. Regarding the greens, it's as much the grass that is used now and the maintenance equipment as it is the design/slope.  Back in days of yore, they couldn't mow greens as tight because the grass would die and the mowers didn't have that cut variability. Being above the hole then wasn't as big of a deal as it is now. Having golfed for as many years as I have, course designers in those days didn't think about green size relevant to the approach shot. Think about the equipment played, and ball used, when Flossmoor was built relative to the length.  No one was hitting 280 yard tee shots and hitting a 5 iron for a second shot into any par 5. Older courses that haven't been fully redesigned have that trait. It's why Medinah went through an extensive redesign so that it could deal with modern golfers, their ability, the ball, and such improved equipment.

 

Not sure anyone said 17 was a good hole but rather a B of a hole for the exact reasons you detailed.  Being more or less forced to lay up with a long iron to an elevated green is just beyond difficult.

 

Personally I like 8 for the exact reasons you shared.  You don't see a lot of holes like that in Chicago. To play that hole properly, you need to shape the shot left to right and it's still going to leave a tough second shot but you have a bail out long and left.

 

Agree completely, 13 is just out of place and nothing about it fits with the rest of the course.  They tried to trick the green up a bit but not much else they could do.

 

Respect your thoughts completely but you see Flossmoor as it is, I see it as it was and as it is now.  

[B-Man]

37 minutes ago, DavePelz4 said:

 

Interesting thoughts. Regarding the greens, it's as much the grass that is used now and the maintenance equipment as it is the design/slope.  Back in days of yore, they couldn't mow greens as tight because the grass would die and the mowers didn't have that cut variability. Being above the hole then wasn't as big of a deal as it is now. Having golfed for as many years as I have, course designers in those days didn't think about green size relevant to the approach shot. Think about the equipment played, and ball used, when Flossmoor was built relative to the length.  No one was hitting 280 yard tee shots and hitting a 5 iron for a second shot into any par 5. Older courses that haven't been fully redesigned have that trait. It's why Medinah went through an extensive redesign so that it could deal with modern golfers, their ability, the ball, and such improved equipment.

 

Not sure anyone said 17 was a good hole but rather a B of a hole for the exact reasons you detailed.  Being more or less forced to lay up with a long iron to an elevated green is just beyond difficult.

 

Personally I like 8 for the exact reasons you shared.  You don't see a lot of holes like that in Chicago. To play that hole properly, you need to shape the shot left to right and it's still going to leave a tough second shot but you have a bail out long and left.

 

Agree completely, 13 is just out of place and nothing about it fits with the rest of the course.  They tried to trick the green up a bit but not much else they could do.

 

Respect your thoughts completely but you see Flossmoor as it is, I see it as it was and as it is now.  

Agree with you on the the state of what it was and how it was designed back in the day. That was the point I was trying to get across. With slower greens back in the day due to equipment etc., the greens have great shape to them with good use of slopes etc. Nowadays those greens cannot deal with the faster speeds that greens can be cut too. Whereas Medinah renovated for such, Flossmoor has not. Take some slopes out of the greens or don't cut them so short.

[DavePelz4]

Our group's comp was at Redtail today.  Will post tomorrow about the course but need to first post a couple of "other things."

 

First, there was a 7some playing.  Seriously.  Fortunately they were behind us.

 

Second, and just when you think you've seen it all, making the turn, several groups in front of us decided to drink vs golf after 9.  But after a few beverages apparently, they decided to finish their round.  Our first group was on the 10th tee and had just hit when they rolled up.  Our second group got on to the box as the first group walked to their shots.  Apparently the laggers or would that be lagers, decided to go ahead to where they thought they should be.  They passed the first group in the fairway and went to the 11th tee.

 

Our first group finished 10, walked to 11 and found the "lagers" sitting with a ranger.  Our group decided to stay in their place, teed off and walked down the fairway. The "lagers" had enough and decided to jump in, which was apparently supported by the ranger. Needless to say, they slowed the pace down dramatically because of their AH move and the alcohol consumed. 

 

Oh wait, but there's more.  The 3 some immediately in front of our first group took the starter's words literally on each hole.  On the first tee the starter apparently said, "Wait until they get on the green until you tee off" so they literally waited, on each hole, including par 5s for the group in front of them to reach the green before they teed off. 

 

Apparently it was a new group of golfers courtesy of COVID19.  Hopefully they are reading this and wondering if this is about them.   Yes, it is and you need to have some respect for the players, the course and your liver.

[chisag]

... If any of you were jealous about Phoenix golf in the winter, payback is a bich. 115* yesterday and 116* today with close to 20% humidity. Just going into a Whole Foods and coming back to the car I almost burnt my fingers touching the door handle.  I am amazed at the difference between 8% and 18% humidity. Couple more days of this and then back to a "cool" 106*.