Mizuno MP-18 SC Long-term reviews?

[Tree Levino]

Playing iBlade now. Like them but I'm finding the head/shaft combo is easy to overcook draws with. I have a hard time hitting a fade with them to be honest. I tried SC in the past but it was on a GCquad that I now know is broken but I wrote it off at the time. Tried it again today and wow... such good feel. No issue working the ball both ways, very high ball flight (37 yards) , good spin at just under 6k with sh*t ball and off mats (mine goes up like crazy outdoors), 49-51 descent angle with 7 iron off a good 180+ carry. The feel was Mizzy butter. I know the MPF numbers say that iBlade is much more forgiving but I thought there was nothing in it honestly. Anybody had both? I already have an MP 18 Fli Hi 4 iron that I could combo in... I've always gotten along with the KBS shaft as well so it's pulling me to change.

[revanant]

Before you take the plunge on the SC, I would note:

 

1) The VCOG is lower in the MP-18 MB (which itself isn’t so low—the MP-4 is lower still); and

 

2) Mizuno wasn't seeing a performance difference in the MP 18 MB vs the SC, which is why they aren’t offering the MP-20 in SC. See below:

 

Quote: "It’s with differentiation in mind that the company decided to scrap the SC. While cosmetically SC was appreciably different than the MP-18 (MB), performance differences were nearly non-existent. The forgiveness of the SC was only marginally better than the MP-18, and there wasn’t much in the way of ball flight difference either. The differences were mostly cosmetic, and that’s not enough reason for Mizuno to update the iron."

 

Source Link: https://****.com/mizuno-mp-20-iron-review/

 

That being said, if you like the MP 18 SC, that’s a good reason enough to consider them. : )

[Jtarno23]

I have had MP 18 for few months now and I’m not impressed. Wasn’t as soft a feel as what I’ve had in past (Mp 60, Mp67). I have a combo set of both MMC and SC. I would wait to try new MP 20

[theboyslater]

Have the SCs and as a 7 handicap I am not good enough to hit them consistently in the longer clubs. Miss hits lose 10 yards easily. I do love the feel though, but am looking to sell them

[Tree Levino]

The local fitter said he thought that iBlade is one of the least forgiving in this bracket and I might as well play blades at this point. I trust him - he wasn't trying to make a sale as he knows I buy used. I have no issue with the forgiveness of iBlade. Part of the issue I think is the S300 - it just doesn't hold up when I go after it. I picked up a set of PX 6.0 that I might throw in them to pull the spin back a bit and give me a bit more control. The SC did feel delicious.

[revanant]

On the PX 6.0, I don't have much to offer, other than the fact that they're in my irons and my scores are improving, so they aren't hurting me. : )

[Tree Levino]

> @revanant said:

> On the PX 6.0, I don't have much to offer, other than the fact that they're in my irons and my scores are improving, so they aren't hurting me. : )

 

I hit them back to back vs other shafts yesterday and peak height is around 5 yards lower with PX 6.0 for me vs KBS. Might be hurting your carry. Ball speed for 7 iron was 124 average with the Apex MB and X Forged I hit yesterday (34 yard PH and 49 descent spin was not accurate vs 39 PH and 51 descent with KBS both 7i). I actually thought the X Forged was noticeably softer than the MB on equivalent strikes. Further to that, I've read a few places that used PX that is too stout for you can actually increase spin but lower height and give you some undesirable ball flight conditions. It is a stout shaft so accuracy is quite good. The thing I loved about the MB was how easy it was to fade. With the iblades my "fade" is just a towering flight that goes straight. I can produce a proper fade still with good distance using the MB. I think I'm overpowering the S300 and something about the iBlade/shaft combo is making me close down the face at impact leading to pull draws.

[kkennedy]

I could not launch the long irons high enough and ended up going back to my AP2

[revanant]

> @balls_deep said:

> > @revanant said:

> > On the PX 6.0, I don't have much to offer, other than the fact that they're in my irons and my scores are improving, so they aren't hurting me. : )

>

> I hit them back to back vs other shafts yesterday and peak height is around 5 yards lower with PX 6.0 for me vs KBS. Might be hurting your carry. Ball speed for 7 iron was 124 average with the Apex MB and X Forged I hit yesterday (34 yard PH and 49 descent spin was not accurate vs 39 PH and 51 descent with KBS both 7i). I actually thought the X Forged was noticeably softer than the MB on equivalent strikes. Further to that, I've read a few places that used PX that is too stout for you can actually increase spin but lower height and give you some undesirable ball flight conditions. It is a stout shaft so accuracy is quite good. The thing I loved about the MB was how easy it was to fade. With the iblades my "fade" is just a towering flight that goes straight. I can produce a proper fade still with good distance using the MB. I think I'm overpowering the S300 and something about the iBlade/shaft combo is making me close down the face at impact leading to pull draws.

Tl;dr—I don’t find my carry is affected by my shaft choice, but I did find the Project X was about 3-5 yards lower in peak height and a few other metrics could be improved. So, to a degree, our experiences align. However, since I’m playing good golf and my home course is windy, I’m not rushing to tinker with my setup.

* * *

It probably won’t hurt to chat about my iron shafts. I have a lot of data points on the Project X 6.0 from my golf sim, as well as some limited trackman data, but I don’t have enough info to draw real conclusions that I should definitely make a shaft swap, so for now I’m keeping the Project X in and letting it ride. Plus, it saves me money. : )

 

The longer story is that, based on a 1.5 hour track man session back in January, I was hitting the Project X 6.0 between the “medium” and “high” categories of the ball flight optimizer, with a lot of numbers within the proper range. We did the fitting in the Apex MB. Fitter thought my numbers were good, and that a shaft change would be a marginal improvement and not necessarily a good use of funds. He liked my accuracy, and thought my numbers were in a healthy range for my swing speed. In other words—Project X 6.0 was playable and not going to hurt me. In project x, I fit into the mytrackman optimizer as having a “medium ballflight.”

 

We tried a few other shafts, and found the KBS Tour 90 and Aerotech i95 and i80 gave me between 10 and 15 feet of additional height and a bit of a higher launch (18 degrees vs 20) and steeper landing angle, but carry didn’t change much—it basically just pushed my flight from “medium” to “high.”

 

So, about 3 to 5 yards of additional height and a few degrees better descent angle (closer to 45/46 degrees) with a shaft change, but not the sort of thing that screams “fix me.”

 

Since that point, I swapped irons to the MP-4, which have a lower CG than the Apex MB, and I’ve added 716 CB in Steelfiber 95 and 1988 Hogan Redlines in Apex #4/Dynalite S300 (similar in flex to KBS Tour 90, but at 120 grams).

 

On my truegolf sim, I can hit very similar carry, launch, and spin numbers with any of the clubs—even though my MP-4s are 2 degrees strong (they came that way and I haven’t messed with them since I hit them fine), my Hogan Redlines are about 4 degrees weaker than my MP-4s, and my 716 CB are a mystery. I need to get the CBs checked for loft and lie, but I’ve assumed they’re a stock setup as they seem pretty close to my Hogan’s.

 

The more important story is that I’ve had about 6 months of practice with my MP-4s, so my comfort with them and ball striking have only gotten better since January.

 

Essentially, when I do my job, I reliably hit my yardages and gaps with the MP-4s in real course conditions and the ball goes where I want it to, so I’m hesitant to change anything.

 

I also play on a very windy course, so while I could do a relatively cheap shaft change into KBS Tour 90, I’m a bit afraid of what that will do to my ballflight in a 15 mph headwind. I already have days where my shots soar up on me and I need to take an extra club or two due to wind—going with a higher ball flight seems counterproductive for my current playing conditions.

 

I think I’m going to continue to let things ride for a while. I may take the 716 CB or 1988 Redlines out for a spin this summer to see if the higher ballflight negatively affects my game. But my next move is probably just to go for another club champion fitting in December when they do their 50% off sale and see where things sit with iron choice and shaft choice. A few things I’m mulling would be the Ping Blueprint in a power spec, as it’s got enough bounce to survive strengthening the loft and I was getting crazy spin numbers and launch on the 7 iron when I hit it stock (8000 rpm and 24 degrees of launch), at the expense of carry. The other thing to try would be the new MP-20s, and if I’m lucky, maybe some Vegas or Miura BBs. But that’s mostly for fun and vanity—I’m wary to mess with my MP-4s now that I’ve found a setup that’s letting me play better golf.

 

Edit: formatting

[revanant]

For discussion purposes, here are examples of what I mean. I can hit very similarly windows with very different club setups in dry ball testing, and my MP-4s are doing good work on actual course conditions. I’m putting these up in reference to the numbers in the current shot—the other numbers aren’t as useful, as they have a mix of different iron shots in them.

 

Titleist 716 CB 7 iron—Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff, loft of 35 degrees (assumed but not confirmed)

 

Hogan 1988 Apex Redlines—Apex #4 Shaft (Dynalite S300), 36 degrees loft (confirmed)

 

Mizuno MP-4—Project X 6.0, 32 degrees of loft (confirmed)

 

Long story short—there are differences in ballflight and spin—my Mizuno 7 iron realistically tends towards 18 degrees of launch and mid 6k of spin with about 135 carry and less than 10 yards of roll. But, while these irons do have small differences in performance tendencies, the real world difference is a bit marginal, which is why I’ve stopped worrying about equipment for a bit.

 

I think my setup is functional enough that I can leave tinkering on the back burner and focus on practice and playing better golf in real world conditions. Plus, I very much view my golfing, even during rounds, as an exercise in learning the game and practice, so I don’t get bent out of shape over mistakes or bad shots—in my mind, it’s just more practice so that I can be a better golfer down the road.

 

That being said, if something about the Project X and the iBlades gives you better ball flight @balls_deep , go for it. :)

 

Or better yet, go for the Apex MB’s. Your fitter gave you the green light. >:)

[dmeeksDC]

Higher flight is not always longer flight. If you see a real high flight and a very steep descent, you could be losing distance. For me PX Rifle 6.0 will be more penetrating, better in wind and go lower and longer than a KBS Tour, for example. But a KBS C Taper Lite X flex will go lower than the Tour and as far as the PX Rifle. My fitter said it is true that most golfers need more height, especially if ballspeed is average, but higher ballspeeds player often needs to lower their flight. It is all about optimizing flight for your ballspeed.

[Tree Levino]

> @dmeeksDC said:

> Higher flight is not always longer flight. If you see a real high flight and a very steep descent, you could be losing distance. For me PX Rifle 6.0 will be more penetrating, better in wind and go lower and longer than a KBS Tour, for example. But a KBS C Taper Lite X flex will go lower than the Tour and as far as the PX Rifle. My fitter said it is true that most golfers need more height, especially if ballspeed is average, but higher ballspeeds player often needs to lower their flight. It is all about optimizing flight for your ballspeed.

 

Absolutely. Lower spin/height players are usually playing for roll out or running it up on to the green as well. My issue is my spin can be erratic at times right now. Sometimes my 7 iron will be a dead stop, sometimes a few inches back, or I'll get a 10 foot suck back which is not ideal. I almost got my first ace on my birthday (last sunday) 185 par 3 I hit a hard 7, pitch mark was 4 inches from the cup but the ball sucked back 10 feet. There was no wind and the tee box was only elevated maybe 10 feet max. If I swing easy this setup is fine but I can't put any real speed into it without an overdraw or excessive spin. I had two instances yesterday where I spun my 5 iron backwards on a downwind shot around 195 carry.

[Holeoot]

I’ve had my combo set of MMC and SC for a few weeks now and absolutely love them. Feel great when flushed and to be honest I don’t see a massive drop off on less than centre strikes. I came from Xforged with px6.0 to the combo set with Modus 105x, distance is around the same but they feel softer than the callaways and my dispersion is better.

 

I haven’t hit iBlades so can’t really compare, however I really don’t view the SC is unforgiving (for reference I’m 3 hc and average to good ball striker).

 

Hope that helps

[Jaywh2]

Honestly I’m not sure why so many comments on the MP 18 forums say the SC is so unforgiving. I think they are just as forgiving as any forged CB including srixon z785, AP2s, J15 cb, etc. I don’t buy into the maltby ratings everyone references which by the way list the MP 18 MMC as even less forgiving. These are soft irons. Not MP 4, 5, or 69 soft but still feel very good for a forged iron. Just my two cents don’t overlook these. Unless you want the MP 20s which look phenomenal and have layers of feel apparently. Good luck

[koe]

> @Jaywh2 said:

> Honestly I’m not sure why so many comments on the MP 18 forums say the SC is so unforgiving. I think they are just as forgiving as any forged CB including srixon z785, AP2s, J15 cb, etc. I don’t buy into the maltby ratings everyone references which by the way list the MP 18 MMC as even less forgiving. These are soft irons. Not MP 4, 5, or 69 soft but still feel very good for a forged iron. Just my two cents don’t overlook these. Unless you want the MP 20s which look phenomenal and have layers of feel apparently. Good luck

 

I feel exactly the same...

 

I have them since beginning'18 and never felt the where an unforgiving iron, when I was fitted I tried Z765, AP2, Xforged... and I never felt MP18 SC less forgiving than the others, in fact, for me AP2 where the hardest to hit by a mile, I know it's not the general opinion but I just couldn't hit them, on the contrary with the MP18 SC I felt them very easy to hit and I never loose more than 3-5 yards on "mishits"...

[Tree Levino]

> @koe said:

> > @Jaywh2 said:

> > Honestly I’m not sure why so many comments on the MP 18 forums say the SC is so unforgiving. I think they are just as forgiving as any forged CB including srixon z785, AP2s, J15 cb, etc. I don’t buy into the maltby ratings everyone references which by the way list the MP 18 MMC as even less forgiving. These are soft irons. Not MP 4, 5, or 69 soft but still feel very good for a forged iron. Just my two cents don’t overlook these. Unless you want the MP 20s which look phenomenal and have layers of feel apparently. Good luck

>

> I feel exactly the same...

>

> I have them since beginning'18 and never felt the where an unforgiving iron, when I was fitted I tried Z765, AP2, Xforged... and I never felt MP18 SC less forgiving than the others, in fact, for me AP2 where the hardest to hit by a mile, I know it's not the general opinion but I just couldn't hit them, on the contrary with the MP18 SC I felt them very easy to hit and I never loose more than 3-5 yards on "mishits"...

 

I loved the feel of the X Forged. Quite soft and very nice flight. I agree to a point. My main issue with AP2 (and this could have been a shaft thing) was they were rather erratic in terms of flight window and I felt like I wasn’t as accurate with them. Srixons iblades 919 tour SC Cobra MB all more accurate and consistent flight and direction

[revanant]

Congrats on the almost ace.

> @Jaywh2 said:

> Honestly I’m not sure why so many comments on the MP 18 forums say the SC is so unforgiving. I think they are just as forgiving as any forged CB including srixon z785, AP2s, J15 cb, etc. I don’t buy into the maltby ratings everyone references which by the way list the MP 18 MMC as even less forgiving. These are soft irons. Not MP 4, 5, or 69 soft but still feel very good for a forged iron. Just my two cents don’t overlook these. Unless you want the MP 20s which look phenomenal and have layers of feel apparently. Good luck

 

Technically, the MP-18 MMC (371 MPF) were rated a bit better than the MP 18 SC (135 MPF). There is some difference in vertical center of gravity—with the SC at .906 vs. .845 for the MMC. The MP-18 MB come in at .849.

 

Anecdotally, when I hit the SC, I wasn’t in love. I found I had to work a bit harder to get a good shot compared to the MB, and neither compares favorably to my MP-4s for ease of launch in my hands (.762 VCOG, 397 MPF). Personally, for my swing, I find VCOG to be a good indicator for whether I’ll get along with an iron.

 

I agree with you that the Maltby stats don’t necessarily tell the story of how an iron will perform in your hands. While I do tend to find that irons with a lower VCOG perform better for me and are easier to launch well, I got along very well with the Apex MB and found them very easy to hit, despite a bottom of the barrel MPF score and high VCOG.

 

But, I did find the rank of the MP 18 broadly consistent with my personal experience—not as soft as the MP 18 MB or my MP-4s, and not as easy to hit well. But obviously, my results are true for me and my swing, so everyone needs to test for themselves.

 

On a side note, I know we all use the term forgiveness in different ways. In my mind, I’m not worried about feel when I think forgiveness—I don’t care if an iron stings my fingers on a bad hit or doesn’t bite me. I look more about how the iron performs on less-than-ideal strikes. Since I couldn’t really get the MP 18 SC to sing for me on my good strikes, they came out low on my subjective test of forgiveness. :)

[Holeoot]

In the last couple of years I’ve had AP2 (716), xforged and now the SC/MMC combo, I’ve hit a bunch of stuff in between as well (honma, taylormade, Mizuno JPX 909 range and Titleist) the AP2’s dug a lot for me and I really didn’t get on with them, I also found the distances were really short (even for traditional lofts) the X forged were really good clubs but if I was being picky the shape of the higher lofted clubs annoyed me.

 

For me the Mizuno get through the ground the best, give me the distance I want and look great down by the ball. I think with most of these clubs a miss is a miss, unless you go to Apex range (or any other type of players distance iron) your going to sacrifice a wee bit on misses.

[North Butte]

I must say as a lifelong wide-sole, high-bounce lover I think nowadays Mizuno does as good as anyone (even Ping) at letting me avoid the occasional digging disaster while still peeling off a lovely shallow divot and getting the ball up and flying when contact wasn't quite perfect. I remember 10+ years ago every time I tried a Mizuno iron I came away thinking I needed more sole.

[Tree Levino]

> @"North Butte" said:

> I must say as a lifelong wide-sole, high-bounce lover I think nowadays Mizuno does as good as anyone (even Ping) at letting me avoid the occasional digging disaster while still peeling off a lovely shallow divot and getting the ball up and flying when contact wasn't quite perfect. I remember 10+ years ago every time I tried a Mizuno iron I came away thinking I needed more sole.

 

I loved the 919T and SC sole but the Forged was too wide + low bounce for me. Felt like too much turf interaction through impact. I don't need the launch though.

[North Butte]

My only real Mizuno playing experience, other than brief demos, has been with 850 Forged and 900 Hot Metal. I guess both of those are the "wide + low bounce" which seems to work great for me. I need all the elevation help I can get though!

[Skhacker]

Played the iblade and 18 SC and currently have the MP20 MB. I find the iblade and MP20 to be almost identical distance and forgiveness wise, but prefer the feel of the Mizuno. I didn’t see much forgiveness difference in the 18 SC, but I put them away as they just launched too high, so they never really got an honest shot.  I still have a new 5-p set of SC18 heads that I’m going to put some heavy graphite shafts in when I find a decent pulled set and give them a real chance. 
This is of course, all purely anecdotal.