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Thorbjorn Olsen Arrested on Flight


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> @MattyO1984 said:

> > @golfandfishing said:

> > He could play Asia, S Africa, Korn Ferry, PGA Tour, etc. Lots of options if he wants to play, but he might want to lay low.

> >

> > > @MattyO1984 said:

> > > A Trial date has now been fixed for May next year. Thorbjorn will remain suspended by the European Tour until that time. That is a long time without competitive golf for him.

> >

> >

>

> I wonder how his application for membership to those tours would go down? I guess that he could get exemptions for them but I cannot imagine that many tournament organisers would want him teeing it up until this is all sorted out.

 

It's possible since he is suspended from the ET the other major tours (PGA Tour/KF/Asian/Japan/Australia/South Africa) would recognize his ET suspension and not allow him to compete on their tours. The tours may have reciprocal agreements for situations like this.

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> @bladehunter said:

> > @brew4eagle said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > So you say low, I say none. Why argue? Are you under the impression that there is some sort of penalty for me if he does 1 day in jail and you win a prize of some variety?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > What would you like to wager?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > No way he does any time in a jail cell. Maybe, maybe a very slight chance of a brief home sentence. There is zero chance he goes to prison. None.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if you're being serious or not, or how you could think this. He's being charged with sexual assault. Of course he could do jail time if he is convicted of something in that realm unless I don't understand something about the charges? Now, I'm not predicting that but I don't see how there isn't a chance greater than 0% that it could happen.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I literally wrote I'm not predicting it. That doesn't mean I think there's a 0% chance, lol .

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Because there's a huge difference between someone saying 0% chance of something happening and there being a chance of it happening, which is why I asked if you knew something about the legal system, etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Of course you know when someone says “ none “ that’s hyperbole. There’s no such thing as 100 or 0% when talking criminal charges. So ? Also a large difference between being charged with something and it making it to trial.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's exactly my point that there's no such thing as 0%.> @"Mick Douglas" said:

> > > > > > > Field out for Switzerland the week after his court case and he's not in the field, going to be a stressful time right now we have to assume practicing golf won't be a high priority and if found guilty or not I doubt he'll play before Wentworth or Dunhill the following week.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Suspended

> > > > >

> > > > > But you knew that 0 is word used for very unlikely. Right ?

> > > > >

> > > > > That being said. In a court in the UK. He’s likely screwed. He’d fare far better in the states. In my humble opinion.

> > > >

> > > > He’s not the victim here. And I say that as a fan of his.

> > >

> > > I didn’t say he was a victim. I’m just saying we don’t know any facts about the case. Not enough To even claim there is a victim. I just prefer to make an opinion based on info. Not headlines.

> >

> > If an arrest was made for sexual assault charges, then by definition there is a victim.

>

> Alleged victim.

>

> You still have to prove the case yes ?

>

> This is the problem with today’s social media world. It’s guilty until proven innocent.

 

dangerous times for due process...

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> @cardoustie said:

> it will be pills and booze mix defense...

 

I think you're probably right. Ambien+alcohol=blackout. Toss in an a-hole personality and you have yourself a proper mess.

[size=2][i]"I see the distorted swings, the hurried rounds, and now the electric carts tae ruin the course and rob us of our exercise...we have gone off the mark, gone after the wrong things, forgotten what it's all about"[/i][/size]

[size=2]-Dr. Julian Sands, Golf in the Kingdom[/size]

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> @lowheel said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @brew4eagle said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > So you say low, I say none. Why argue? Are you under the impression that there is some sort of penalty for me if he does 1 day in jail and you win a prize of some variety?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > What would you like to wager?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > No way he does any time in a jail cell. Maybe, maybe a very slight chance of a brief home sentence. There is zero chance he goes to prison. None.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if you're being serious or not, or how you could think this. He's being charged with sexual assault. Of course he could do jail time if he is convicted of something in that realm unless I don't understand something about the charges? Now, I'm not predicting that but I don't see how there isn't a chance greater than 0% that it could happen.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I literally wrote I'm not predicting it. That doesn't mean I think there's a 0% chance, lol .

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Because there's a huge difference between someone saying 0% chance of something happening and there being a chance of it happening, which is why I asked if you knew something about the legal system, etc.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Of course you know when someone says “ none “ that’s hyperbole. There’s no such thing as 100 or 0% when talking criminal charges. So ? Also a large difference between being charged with something and it making it to trial.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That's exactly my point that there's no such thing as 0%.> @"Mick Douglas" said:

> > > > > > > > Field out for Switzerland the week after his court case and he's not in the field, going to be a stressful time right now we have to assume practicing golf won't be a high priority and if found guilty or not I doubt he'll play before Wentworth or Dunhill the following week.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Suspended

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But you knew that 0 is word used for very unlikely. Right ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That being said. In a court in the UK. He’s likely screwed. He’d fare far better in the states. In my humble opinion.

> > > > >

> > > > > He’s not the victim here. And I say that as a fan of his.

> > > >

> > > > I didn’t say he was a victim. I’m just saying we don’t know any facts about the case. Not enough To even claim there is a victim. I just prefer to make an opinion based on info. Not headlines.

> > >

> > > If an arrest was made for sexual assault charges, then by definition there is a victim.

> >

> > Alleged victim.

> >

> > You still have to prove the case yes ?

> >

> > This is the problem with today’s social media world. It’s guilty until proven innocent.

>

> dangerous times for due process...

 

I agree.

 

So far, all we know for sure is that as the result of the evidence/accounts provided to law enforcement and their investigation , he was charged with committing these crimes on a plane. I’m not sure if they have a grand jury system in the U.K. or exactly how they determine that the charges by law enforcement have sufficient merit to take it to trial, but I assume that the evidence was substantial enough for a prosecutor to feel confident in bringing a conviction.

 

He will have his day in court but I think this gets some kind of deal before hand.

 

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> @bscinstnct said:

> > @lowheel said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @brew4eagle said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > So you say low, I say none. Why argue? Are you under the impression that there is some sort of penalty for me if he does 1 day in jail and you win a prize of some variety?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > What would you like to wager?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No way he does any time in a jail cell. Maybe, maybe a very slight chance of a brief home sentence. There is zero chance he goes to prison. None.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if you're being serious or not, or how you could think this. He's being charged with sexual assault. Of course he could do jail time if he is convicted of something in that realm unless I don't understand something about the charges? Now, I'm not predicting that but I don't see how there isn't a chance greater than 0% that it could happen.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I literally wrote I'm not predicting it. That doesn't mean I think there's a 0% chance, lol .

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Because there's a huge difference between someone saying 0% chance of something happening and there being a chance of it happening, which is why I asked if you knew something about the legal system, etc.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Of course you know when someone says “ none “ that’s hyperbole. There’s no such thing as 100 or 0% when talking criminal charges. So ? Also a large difference between being charged with something and it making it to trial.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > That's exactly my point that there's no such thing as 0%.> @"Mick Douglas" said:

> > > > > > > > > Field out for Switzerland the week after his court case and he's not in the field, going to be a stressful time right now we have to assume practicing golf won't be a high priority and if found guilty or not I doubt he'll play before Wentworth or Dunhill the following week.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Suspended

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But you knew that 0 is word used for very unlikely. Right ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That being said. In a court in the UK. He’s likely screwed. He’d fare far better in the states. In my humble opinion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > He’s not the victim here. And I say that as a fan of his.

> > > > >

> > > > > I didn’t say he was a victim. I’m just saying we don’t know any facts about the case. Not enough To even claim there is a victim. I just prefer to make an opinion based on info. Not headlines.

> > > >

> > > > If an arrest was made for sexual assault charges, then by definition there is a victim.

> > >

> > > Alleged victim.

> > >

> > > You still have to prove the case yes ?

> > >

> > > This is the problem with today’s social media world. It’s guilty until proven innocent.

> >

> > dangerous times for due process...

>

> I agree.

>

> So far, all we know for sure is that as the result of the evidence/accounts provided to law enforcement and their investigation , he was charged with committing these crimes on a plane. I’m not sure if they have a grand jury system in the U.K. or exactly how they determine that the charges by law enforcement have sufficient merit to take it to trial, but I assume that the evidence was substantial enough for a prosecutor to feel confident in bringing a conviction.

>

> He will have his day in court but I think this gets some kind of deal before hand.

>

 

The way the UK Justice system works (and in my mind it's still the best in the world) is as follows:

Alleged crime is committed

Police will pass evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service who will decide if there is sufficient evidence to proceed with a prosecution

Depending on the severity of the crimes charged, the accused will either appear before a Magistrates court (which consists of 3 Magistrates - you can think of it like Judge Judy, but times 3) first - they can hand out lower tariffed fines and up to 6 months custodial sentences). If they feel the punishment that may be handed out is too severe for them to hand out then they will refer it to the Crown Court, which is a Judge and 12 Jurors.

To my knowledge, we don't have the concept of 'deals' - the accused's cooperation and any early guilty plea will be taken into account, but you cannot 'buy' your way out of serious crimes. The alleged victim(s) can also file for civil damages separately.

As the latter is what has happened in this case, then I think it is absolutely right that he has been suspended, and I say that as a huge TBO fan.

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> @Bingo1976 said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @lowheel said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @brew4eagle said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > So you say low, I say none. Why argue? Are you under the impression that there is some sort of penalty for me if he does 1 day in jail and you win a prize of some variety?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would you like to wager?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No way he does any time in a jail cell. Maybe, maybe a very slight chance of a brief home sentence. There is zero chance he goes to prison. None.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if you're being serious or not, or how you could think this. He's being charged with sexual assault. Of course he could do jail time if he is convicted of something in that realm unless I don't understand something about the charges? Now, I'm not predicting that but I don't see how there isn't a chance greater than 0% that it could happen.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I literally wrote I'm not predicting it. That doesn't mean I think there's a 0% chance, lol .

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Because there's a huge difference between someone saying 0% chance of something happening and there being a chance of it happening, which is why I asked if you knew something about the legal system, etc.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Of course you know when someone says “ none “ that’s hyperbole. There’s no such thing as 100 or 0% when talking criminal charges. So ? Also a large difference between being charged with something and it making it to trial.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > That's exactly my point that there's no such thing as 0%.> @"Mick Douglas" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Field out for Switzerland the week after his court case and he's not in the field, going to be a stressful time right now we have to assume practicing golf won't be a high priority and if found guilty or not I doubt he'll play before Wentworth or Dunhill the following week.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Suspended

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But you knew that 0 is word used for very unlikely. Right ?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > That being said. In a court in the UK. He’s likely screwed. He’d fare far better in the states. In my humble opinion.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > He’s not the victim here. And I say that as a fan of his.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I didn’t say he was a victim. I’m just saying we don’t know any facts about the case. Not enough To even claim there is a victim. I just prefer to make an opinion based on info. Not headlines.

> > > > >

> > > > > If an arrest was made for sexual assault charges, then by definition there is a victim.

> > > >

> > > > Alleged victim.

> > > >

> > > > You still have to prove the case yes ?

> > > >

> > > > This is the problem with today’s social media world. It’s guilty until proven innocent.

> > >

> > > dangerous times for due process...

> >

> > I agree.

> >

> > So far, all we know for sure is that as the result of the evidence/accounts provided to law enforcement and their investigation , he was charged with committing these crimes on a plane. I’m not sure if they have a grand jury system in the U.K. or exactly how they determine that the charges by law enforcement have sufficient merit to take it to trial, but I assume that the evidence was substantial enough for a prosecutor to feel confident in bringing a conviction.

> >

> > He will have his day in court but I think this gets some kind of deal before hand.

> >

>

> The way the UK Justice system works (and in my mind it's still the best in the world) is as follows:

> Alleged crime is committed

> Police will pass evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service who will decide if there is sufficient evidence to proceed with a prosecution

> Depending on the severity of the crimes charged, the accused will either appear before a Magistrates court (which consists of 3 Magistrates - you can think of it like Judge Judy, but times 3) first - they can hand out lower tariffed fines and up to 6 months custodial sentences). If they feel the punishment that may be handed out is too severe for them to hand out then they will refer it to the Crown Court, which is a Judge and 12 Jurors.

> To my knowledge, we don't have the concept of 'deals' - the accused's cooperation and any early guilty plea will be taken into account, but you cannot 'buy' your way out of serious crimes. The alleged victim(s) can also file for civil damages separately.

> As the latter is what has happened in this case, then I think it is absolutely right that he has been suspended, and I say that as a huge TBO fan.

 

Bingo! THank you.

 

I'm pretty sure that the "plea bargain", where the prosecution and defendant agree to a guilty plea on a lesser charge for lesser sentence (usually due to difficulty in proving the the more severe charge but wanting some punishment), is accepted practice in the UK legal system.

 

 

 

 

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> @bscinstnct said:

> > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @brew4eagle said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > So you say low, I say none. Why argue? Are you under the impression that there is some sort of penalty for me if he does 1 day in jail and you win a prize of some variety?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would you like to wager?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No way he does any time in a jail cell. Maybe, maybe a very slight chance of a brief home sentence. There is zero chance he goes to prison. None.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if you're being serious or not, or how you could think this. He's being charged with sexual assault. Of course he could do jail time if he is convicted of something in that realm unless I don't understand something about the charges? Now, I'm not predicting that but I don't see how there isn't a chance greater than 0% that it could happen.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I literally wrote I'm not predicting it. That doesn't mean I think there's a 0% chance, lol .

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Because there's a huge difference between someone saying 0% chance of something happening and there being a chance of it happening, which is why I asked if you knew something about the legal system, etc.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Of course you know when someone says “ none “ that’s hyperbole. There’s no such thing as 100 or 0% when talking criminal charges. So ? Also a large difference between being charged with something and it making it to trial.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > That's exactly my point that there's no such thing as 0%.> @"Mick Douglas" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Field out for Switzerland the week after his court case and he's not in the field, going to be a stressful time right now we have to assume practicing golf won't be a high priority and if found guilty or not I doubt he'll play before Wentworth or Dunhill the following week.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Suspended

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > But you knew that 0 is word used for very unlikely. Right ?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > That being said. In a court in the UK. He’s likely screwed. He’d fare far better in the states. In my humble opinion.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > He’s not the victim here. And I say that as a fan of his.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I didn’t say he was a victim. I’m just saying we don’t know any facts about the case. Not enough To even claim there is a victim. I just prefer to make an opinion based on info. Not headlines.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If an arrest was made for sexual assault charges, then by definition there is a victim.

> > > > >

> > > > > Alleged victim.

> > > > >

> > > > > You still have to prove the case yes ?

> > > > >

> > > > > This is the problem with today’s social media world. It’s guilty until proven innocent.

> > > >

> > > > dangerous times for due process...

> > >

> > > I agree.

> > >

> > > So far, all we know for sure is that as the result of the evidence/accounts provided to law enforcement and their investigation , he was charged with committing these crimes on a plane. I’m not sure if they have a grand jury system in the U.K. or exactly how they determine that the charges by law enforcement have sufficient merit to take it to trial, but I assume that the evidence was substantial enough for a prosecutor to feel confident in bringing a conviction.

> > >

> > > He will have his day in court but I think this gets some kind of deal before hand.

> > >

> >

> > The way the UK Justice system works (and in my mind it's still the best in the world) is as follows:

> > Alleged crime is committed

> > Police will pass evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service who will decide if there is sufficient evidence to proceed with a prosecution

> > Depending on the severity of the crimes charged, the accused will either appear before a Magistrates court (which consists of 3 Magistrates - you can think of it like Judge Judy, but times 3) first - they can hand out lower tariffed fines and up to 6 months custodial sentences). If they feel the punishment that may be handed out is too severe for them to hand out then they will refer it to the Crown Court, which is a Judge and 12 Jurors.

> > To my knowledge, we don't have the concept of 'deals' - the accused's cooperation and any early guilty plea will be taken into account, but you cannot 'buy' your way out of serious crimes. The alleged victim(s) can also file for civil damages separately.

> > As the latter is what has happened in this case, then I think it is absolutely right that he has been suspended, and I say that as a huge TBO fan.

>

> Bingo! THank you.

>

> I'm pretty sure that the "plea bargain", where the prosecution and defendant agree to a guilty plea on a lesser charge for lesser sentence (usually due to difficulty in proving the the more severe charge but wanting some punishment), is accepted practice in the UK legal system.

>

>

>

>

 

Oh, it absolutely is, I just don’t see it happening in this case - the time for a plea bargain would have been before the magistrates court. It usually only applies when there is insufficient evidence to convict on a higher charge, or when there is a co defendant who you are testifying against. I am not a lawyer, however the attached is a decent summary of the UK process vis a vis plea bargaining.

 

https://www.inbrief.co.uk/court-proceedings/plea-bargaining/

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> @Bingo1976 said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @brew4eagle said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you say low, I say none. Why argue? Are you under the impression that there is some sort of penalty for me if he does 1 day in jail and you win a prize of some variety?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would you like to wager?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No way he does any time in a jail cell. Maybe, maybe a very slight chance of a brief home sentence. There is zero chance he goes to prison. None.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if you're being serious or not, or how you could think this. He's being charged with sexual assault. Of course he could do jail time if he is convicted of something in that realm unless I don't understand something about the charges? Now, I'm not predicting that but I don't see how there isn't a chance greater than 0% that it could happen.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I literally wrote I'm not predicting it. That doesn't mean I think there's a 0% chance, lol .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Because there's a huge difference between someone saying 0% chance of something happening and there being a chance of it happening, which is why I asked if you knew something about the legal system, etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Of course you know when someone says “ none “ that’s hyperbole. There’s no such thing as 100 or 0% when talking criminal charges. So ? Also a large difference between being charged with something and it making it to trial.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > That's exactly my point that there's no such thing as 0%.> @"Mick Douglas" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Field out for Switzerland the week after his court case and he's not in the field, going to be a stressful time right now we have to assume practicing golf won't be a high priority and if found guilty or not I doubt he'll play before Wentworth or Dunhill the following week.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Suspended

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But you knew that 0 is word used for very unlikely. Right ?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > That being said. In a court in the UK. He’s likely screwed. He’d fare far better in the states. In my humble opinion.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > He’s not the victim here. And I say that as a fan of his.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I didn’t say he was a victim. I’m just saying we don’t know any facts about the case. Not enough To even claim there is a victim. I just prefer to make an opinion based on info. Not headlines.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If an arrest was made for sexual assault charges, then by definition there is a victim.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Alleged victim.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You still have to prove the case yes ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is the problem with today’s social media world. It’s guilty until proven innocent.

> > > > >

> > > > > dangerous times for due process...

> > > >

> > > > I agree.

> > > >

> > > > So far, all we know for sure is that as the result of the evidence/accounts provided to law enforcement and their investigation , he was charged with committing these crimes on a plane. I’m not sure if they have a grand jury system in the U.K. or exactly how they determine that the charges by law enforcement have sufficient merit to take it to trial, but I assume that the evidence was substantial enough for a prosecutor to feel confident in bringing a conviction.

> > > >

> > > > He will have his day in court but I think this gets some kind of deal before hand.

> > > >

> > >

> > > The way the UK Justice system works (and in my mind it's still the best in the world) is as follows:

> > > Alleged crime is committed

> > > Police will pass evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service who will decide if there is sufficient evidence to proceed with a prosecution

> > > Depending on the severity of the crimes charged, the accused will either appear before a Magistrates court (which consists of 3 Magistrates - you can think of it like Judge Judy, but times 3) first - they can hand out lower tariffed fines and up to 6 months custodial sentences). If they feel the punishment that may be handed out is too severe for them to hand out then they will refer it to the Crown Court, which is a Judge and 12 Jurors.

> > > To my knowledge, we don't have the concept of 'deals' - the accused's cooperation and any early guilty plea will be taken into account, but you cannot 'buy' your way out of serious crimes. The alleged victim(s) can also file for civil damages separately.

> > > As the latter is what has happened in this case, then I think it is absolutely right that he has been suspended, and I say that as a huge TBO fan.

> >

> > Bingo! THank you.

> >

> > I'm pretty sure that the "plea bargain", where the prosecution and defendant agree to a guilty plea on a lesser charge for lesser sentence (usually due to difficulty in proving the the more severe charge but wanting some punishment), is accepted practice in the UK legal system.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Oh, it absolutely is, I just don’t see it happening in this case - the time for a plea bargain would have been before the magistrates court. It usually only applies when there is insufficient evidence to convict on a higher charge, or when there is a co defendant who you are testifying against. I am not a lawyer, however the attached is a decent summary of the UK process vis a vis plea bargaining.

>

> https://www.inbrief.co.uk/court-proceedings/plea-bargaining/

 

 

Trials can be risky. You don’t know how witness testimony will come across or exactly how things are going until the trial is in process. Although, I can see how a jury, if that’s the right term in the U.K., of judges would be more predictable and less prone to being swayed. Especially if you know the judges records prior. Can the attorneys for the defendant have any input on which judges are selected?

 

 

 

 

 

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> @bscinstnct said:

> > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @brew4eagle said:

> > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Bingo1976 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you say low, I say none. Why argue? Are you under the impression that there is some sort of penalty for me if he does 1 day in jail and you win a prize of some variety?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would you like to wager?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @golfandfishing said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No way he does any time in a jail cell. Maybe, maybe a very slight chance of a brief home sentence. There is zero chance he goes to prison. None.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure if you're being serious or not, or how you could think this. He's being charged with sexual assault. Of course he could do jail time if he is convicted of something in that realm unless I don't understand something about the charges? Now, I'm not predicting that but I don't see how there isn't a chance greater than 0% that it could happen.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I literally wrote I'm not predicting it. That doesn't mean I think there's a 0% chance, lol .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because there's a huge difference between someone saying 0% chance of something happening and there being a chance of it happening, which is why I asked if you knew something about the legal system, etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course you know when someone says “ none “ that’s hyperbole. There’s no such thing as 100 or 0% when talking criminal charges. So ? Also a large difference between being charged with something and it making it to trial.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > That's exactly my point that there's no such thing as 0%.> @"Mick Douglas" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Field out for Switzerland the week after his court case and he's not in the field, going to be a stressful time right now we have to assume practicing golf won't be a high priority and if found guilty or not I doubt he'll play before Wentworth or Dunhill the following week.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Suspended

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But you knew that 0 is word used for very unlikely. Right ?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > That being said. In a court in the UK. He’s likely screwed. He’d fare far better in the states. In my humble opinion.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > He’s not the victim here. And I say that as a fan of his.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I didn’t say he was a victim. I’m just saying we don’t know any facts about the case. Not enough To even claim there is a victim. I just prefer to make an opinion based on info. Not headlines.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If an arrest was made for sexual assault charges, then by definition there is a victim.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Alleged victim.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You still have to prove the case yes ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This is the problem with today’s social media world. It’s guilty until proven innocent.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > dangerous times for due process...

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree.

> > > > >

> > > > > So far, all we know for sure is that as the result of the evidence/accounts provided to law enforcement and their investigation , he was charged with committing these crimes on a plane. I’m not sure if they have a grand jury system in the U.K. or exactly how they determine that the charges by law enforcement have sufficient merit to take it to trial, but I assume that the evidence was substantial enough for a prosecutor to feel confident in bringing a conviction.

> > > > >

> > > > > He will have his day in court but I think this gets some kind of deal before hand.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The way the UK Justice system works (and in my mind it's still the best in the world) is as follows:

> > > > Alleged crime is committed

> > > > Police will pass evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service who will decide if there is sufficient evidence to proceed with a prosecution

> > > > Depending on the severity of the crimes charged, the accused will either appear before a Magistrates court (which consists of 3 Magistrates - you can think of it like Judge Judy, but times 3) first - they can hand out lower tariffed fines and up to 6 months custodial sentences). If they feel the punishment that may be handed out is too severe for them to hand out then they will refer it to the Crown Court, which is a Judge and 12 Jurors.

> > > > To my knowledge, we don't have the concept of 'deals' - the accused's cooperation and any early guilty plea will be taken into account, but you cannot 'buy' your way out of serious crimes. The alleged victim(s) can also file for civil damages separately.

> > > > As the latter is what has happened in this case, then I think it is absolutely right that he has been suspended, and I say that as a huge TBO fan.

> > >

> > > Bingo! THank you.

> > >

> > > I'm pretty sure that the "plea bargain", where the prosecution and defendant agree to a guilty plea on a lesser charge for lesser sentence (usually due to difficulty in proving the the more severe charge but wanting some punishment), is accepted practice in the UK legal system.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Oh, it absolutely is, I just don’t see it happening in this case - the time for a plea bargain would have been before the magistrates court. It usually only applies when there is insufficient evidence to convict on a higher charge, or when there is a co defendant who you are testifying against. I am not a lawyer, however the attached is a decent summary of the UK process vis a vis plea bargaining.

> >

> > https://www.inbrief.co.uk/court-proceedings/plea-bargaining/

>

>

> Trials can be risky. You don’t know how witness testimony will come across or exactly how things are going until the trial is in process. Although, I can see how a jury, if that’s the right term in the U.K., of judges would be more predictable and less prone to being swayed. Especially if you know the judges records prior. Can the attorneys for the defendant have any input on which judges are selected?

>

>

>

>

>

 

The Crown Court consists of a Judge and a Jury of 12 - pretty similar to a US system. The judges are usually appointed at random, or because they may have a special knowledge of the law as it relates to that case as it is charged (serious cases will have a High Court Judge for example). The Jury will be 12 lay people. The verdict will be driven by the jury, with the judge doing the sentencing in the case of a guilty verdict.

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  • 2 months later...

Alleged sexual assault, the details of which I'm not sure have been disclosed, but its been a while since this has been in the news so i might be wrong about that

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But did Poulter. Ever. Wake. Up?

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  • 4 months later...

Seems a very serious situation in terms of what evidence must be getting discussed behind closed doors for them to have suspended him until this is resolved. The norm has been that suspensions only get handed down on the front end when the circumstances are clear in most other sports. This is also a very serious allegation for the Tour to take as true if the evidence isn't there given the earnings he's missing and the lawsuit they'd open themselves up to.

Stranger things have happened so I won't make assumptions as to actual guilt or innocence, but on the surface that BA called the authorities--I mean Britain isn't exactly known for a lack of slightly wild drinking behavior nor are first class sections with easy access to booze enhanced by the effects of altitude, so I don't think they'd involve the police lightly--and that he was given a full suspension does not bode well.

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To me it seems like the ET reacted to the pressure of the moment (MeToo) and the potential for ongoing negative PR of him playing in events while he awaited his right to due process regardless of guilt or innocence. Much easier to hide him via suspension than for the ET to get in front of a camera say he is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

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The more likely scenario is the ET gathered what facts they could, came to the conclusion that he really screwed up, and made the wise decision to suspend him to protect their brand. ET's decision doesn't have to hinge on presumed innocent vs proven guilty since ET isn't convicting him of a crime. Employment isn't a right, it's a privilege.

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I suppose I am on the conservative side of the fence with this one.

Notwithstanding an inability to forumulate legal intent, which I think is his best if not only hope of being found not guilty, I find it hard to forget the actual events that by all reasonable accounts occurred.

I think the ET simply recognized that a good percentage of the population might feel the same, or worse, be completely outraged with what occurred and acted appropriately under the circumstances.

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      2022 Callaway Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS

       
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    • Titleist Vokey SM9 Link on Wedge Works Coming Soon- UPDATED Pics Added Pg 4
      Looks like there is a link on Titleist Wedge Works for the new Vokey SM9, but doesn't show any photos yet.
       
      https://www.vokey.com/product/WM137.html#start=4
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      • 237 replies

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