Cutting iron shaft lengths

[wmblake2000]

Once you measure a single shaft length for an iron correctly, can you then simply measure and cut the rest based on it as a starting point (eg., assume 1/2" increment of finished shaft length)? Or do you need to remeasure each shaft seated in the club because of the impact of lie? As always, thanks.

[Hack Daddy]

Epoxy the heads, then measure each length, individually. Do not ever trust that hosel depths were all cut correctly.

[mogc60]

^^^^ This times 100!!! Do not trust the depths are consistent. News flash...they are not

[wmblake2000]

Ok thx... Rats!

[Hack Daddy]

> @wmblake2000 said:

> Ok thx... Rats!

 

Did you tip, then butt cut before gluing the heads?

[Hack Daddy]

If you already cut both ends of the shaft, you're still okay. Just glue the heads on, then add extensions to the ones that are too short. Extensions are very cheap, so you can save this build, if that's what happened.

[Buzzkill]

> @wmblake2000 said:

> Once you measure a single shaft length for an iron correctly, can you then simply measure and cut the rest based on it as a starting point (eg., assume 1/2" increment of finished shaft length)? Or do you need to remeasure each shaft seated in the club because of the impact of lie? As always, thanks.

 

I always pre-cut my iron lengths after verifying hosel depths.

[wmblake2000]

No haven’t started doing anything yet. I just want to (finally) reshaft a set where after the shafts are expoxied in I don’t need to recut or add extender. It just occurred to me last night that maybe cutting them based off initial measurements might not be reliable. It’s a pain to measure actual club... even though I built a measurement tool. That was why I wrote ‘rats.’ Sheer laziness.

[wmblake2000]

> @Buzzkill said:

> > @wmblake2000 said:

> > Once you measure a single shaft length for an iron correctly, can you then simply measure and cut the rest based on it as a starting point (eg., assume 1/2" increment of finished shaft length)? Or do you need to remeasure each shaft seated in the club because of the impact of lie? As always, thanks.

>

> I always pre-cut my iron lengths after verifying hosel depths.

How do you do that? Use a single shaft where you mark hosel depth and use it to validate others?

 

[KRW59]

You will get more accurate swingweight thru the set , if shafts are trimmed to length

prior to gluing during the dry fit process. Easier to adjust head weights , or adjust

length for tip weights that extend below tip of the shaft...For "real" swingweight based

on a 50 gram grip , build to an ungripped target weight of 9 points higher than your,

desired final , with grip weight. Example: ungripped E-1 = D-2 with grip..

[wmblake2000]

> @KRW59 said:

> You will get more accurate swingweight thru the set , if shafts are trimmed to length

> prior to gluing during the dry fit process. Easier to adjust head weights , or adjust

> length for tip weights that extend below tip of the shaft...For "real" swingweight based

> on a 50 gram grip , build to an ungripped target weight of 9 points higher than your,

> desired final , with grip weight. Example: ungripped E-3 = D-2 with grip..

 

Nice! Thx...

 

 

[KRW59]

> @wmblake2000 said:

> > @KRW59 said:

> > You will get more accurate swingweight thru the set , if shafts are trimmed to length

> > prior to gluing during the dry fit process. Easier to adjust head weights , or adjust

> > length for tip weights that extend below tip of the shaft...For "real" swingweight based

> > on a 50 gram grip , build to an ungripped target weight of 9 points higher than your,

> > desired final , with grip weight. Example: ungripped E-3 = D-2 with grip..

>

> Nice! Thx...

>

>

Just caught a mistake in my post , should have read. Build to ungripped E-1 if desired D-2

swingweight with grip......

 

[Buzzkill]

> @KRW59 said:

>**You will get more accurate swingweight thru the set , if shafts are trimmed to length**

> **prior to gluing during the dry fit process**. Easier to adjust head weights , or adjust

> length for tip weights that extend below tip of the shaft...For "real" swingweight based

> on a 50 gram grip , build to an ungripped target weight of 9 points higher than your,

> desired final , with grip weight. Example: ungripped E-1 = D-2 with grip..

 

That's why I pre-cut, my swing weights come out dead on!

 

[Buzzkill]

> @wmblake2000 said:

> > @Buzzkill said:

> > > @wmblake2000 said:

> > > Once you measure a single shaft length for an iron correctly, can you then simply measure and cut the rest based on it as a starting point (eg., assume 1/2" increment of finished shaft length)? Or do you need to remeasure each shaft seated in the club because of the impact of lie? As always, thanks.

> >

> > I always pre-cut my iron lengths after verifying hosel depths.

> How do you do that? Use a single shaft where you mark hosel depth and use it to validate others?

>

Normally, my hosel depths are the same or at least on my last few sets. I just do 1/2" increments once hosels have been verified.

[wmblake2000]

I verified hosel depth today... maybe 1/32 variance, mainly because I can't figure out how to get all the old epoxy off the perimeter at the base of the hosel. Irrelevant amount. So I am going to cut them all 1/2 from a base measure....thx.

[Howard_Jones]

Like already mentioned, NEVER trust ANY specs to be as stated....not one of them.

 

Measure Technic is of highly importance. The shaft seats on the sides, NOT the center of the hosel, so when we measure insert, hold the head "in address position" with one hand, and measure hosel dept on the hosels "heel side of the bore, then the toe side of the bore". Do this systematic and ALWAYS. If those numbers is different, inspect the hosel and measure again.

 

Depending on what quality level we are building, we should consider to either Tip trim, or Tip Shim to equalize hosel specs in sets we want the tightest tolerances.

1/8" is equal to 3.175 mm and we should try to keep a tolerance of < 1.0 mm on quality builds, on both "Insert" or more correct" the shaft above the hosel" and Play lengths.

 

This goes for both Parallels AND Taper tip shafts. Remember, whats down in the hosel is fixed and that part of the shaft can no longer flex. That means, the more of the tip section thats "blocked by been inserted", the less of the shaft can bend = stiffer. Since minimum insert is considered to be 1.0" we have some room to use tip SHIM both to equalize insert bore tolerances, AND to soften flex some.

 

Its only the part of the shaft ABOVE the hosel that can bend and flex, so when we duplicate clubs, or build sets where tip length progression matters (Flighted), its important that we make the shaft ABOVE the hosel as "correct" as we can.

 

Remember that when we use a tip weight, we "shim" that shaft UP, so keep that in mind when we do the calk for inserts end equalizing of insert dept.

 

NEVER trust any club spec to be as stated, Measure them all at least twice, for shafts measure at least 3 x, cut once.

 

If you follow the same "standards" when you measure (make routines for that), and take notes of all specs from you got the components, all modifications done, and specs on the play ready clubs, you got a easy job if repairs is needed or you later want to build another set or club based on this specs.

[wmblake2000]

@"Howard Jones" I *wish* I knew how to build within 1mm tolerance. That is way beyond my skill/tool level. Getting the mark on the shaft and then the cut introduces more variance that this. I just build my own clubs, and have no idea how to reduce this error rate. I actually am taking time before I cut this next set of shafts because I would like to measure and cut more precisely. I actually do measure at least 3x but that just confuses me as the 3 will often all be different.

 

PS: how do you remove old epoxy from the perimeter of the hosel base?

[KRW59]

> @wmblake2000

>

> PS: how do you remove old epoxy from the perimeter of the hosel base?

I use heat ( torch ) aimed directly down the hosel bore , for 5 to 10 seconds , then scrape

the residual epoxy off the 'seat ring' with a dental pick. For heads with a below bore

weight port I may or may not clean or drill material from below that area, depending on head

weight . Most of my builds are done with out the use of tip weights , and head weights

are adjusted in this area to 1/3 of a gram.( 5 grains ).

 

 

[HitaHouse]

For the last two sets I have assembled, tried to do more of the things HJ has talked about to reduce variation. I cut the shafts to the right length increments first. I mark the length on each one with tape, leave it long on the first cut with a cutoff saw, then use a belt sander for fine adjustments to get the lengths really close. Line all the shafts up in a row, tips on a flat surface, and you can see very small length variations. I weight sort grips and install all the ferrules to the same depth (after checking BBGMs). Swingweights come out really close too. It takes a while to measure, record in a spreadsheet, and recheck everything but the resulting set feels very solid. I use a 9mm drill to clean out taper tip hosels. I'm not at the HJ level of knowledge or craftsmanship but getting better.

[Pepperturbo]

Hosel depths can vary. It's an area where the more costly the clubs are the more likely they will be similar. Always glue first then butt cut to desired club length.

[Howard_Jones]

> @wmblake2000 said:

> @"Howard Jones" I *wish* I knew how to build within 1mm tolerance. T

 

Always do loft and lie as the absolute first stage. (if play specs is unknown, set to STD)

We can use 4* difference to Lie as 1 SWP (2* flat to 2* up).

 

1/8" = 0.75 SWP so 2 flat to 2 up is about 3/16 on play length, or about 4 mm, so 1* off on lie cant make it to a tolerance of < 1.0 mm, since 1* on lie is about 1 mm.

 

So we both mess up Play lengths AND our Dry-Fit Balance job if we forget Loft and Lie as Stage 1.

 

Make a routine for how the club shall lie on the ruler when you measure.

 

Measure and equalize hosel specs AND tip length to be inserted. Measure both

BBGM and Insert (at 2 sides of the bore)

/ dont forget tip weights if needed, and that tip weights "shim up" the shaft"./less part of the shaft tip inserted.

 

Use a measure "block" to set the cut mark at butt, remember to SUB 1/8" for the Grip Cap. Use a thin pen for the cut mark.

 

Cut using a Rotating Chopsaw (the type we bend the neck on to cut) Always cut on the LONG side of the cut mark.

 

Grind down butt to target - check length during grinding.

 

Build up tape NEVER over the butt end.

Only 1 layer of grip tape to close the shaft butt.

 

Make sure the grip are seated fully when you install. (push or knock the grip butt against the floor, like we do to check full insert)

 

Routines and "standards" for how you measure and progress in the job from Loft and lie to SW or balance is of highly importance, so make sure you always follow the same steps, especial the way you place the club on the ruler and measure.

[wmblake2000]

> @KRW59 said:

> > @wmblake2000

> >

> > PS: how do you remove old epoxy from the perimeter of the hosel base?

> I use heat ( torch ) aimed directly down the hosel bore , for 5 to 10 seconds , then scrape

> the residual epoxy off the 'seat ring' with a dental pick. For heads with a below bore

> weight port I may or may not clean or drill material from below that area, depending on head

> weight . Most of my builds are done with out the use of tip weights , and head weights

> are adjusted in this area to 1/3 of a gram.( 5 grains ).

>

>

 

Dental pick. Brilliant! I had been heating inside of hosel with torch but using a nail wasn’t fine enough. I had a dental pick once upon a time... wonder if I can find it... maybe

 

 

[wmblake2000]

> @HitaHouse said:

> For the last two sets I have assembled, tried to do more of the things HJ has talked about to reduce variation. I cut the shafts to the right length increments first. I mark the length on each one with tape, leave it long on the first cut with a cutoff saw, then use a belt sander for fine adjustments to get the lengths really close. Line all the shafts up in a row, tips on a flat surface, and you can see very small length variations. I weight sort grips and install all the ferrules to the same depth (after checking BBGMs). Swingweights come out really close too. It takes a while to measure, record in a spreadsheet, and recheck everything but the resulting set feels very solid. I use a 9mm drill to clean out taper tip hosels. I'm not at the HJ level of knowledge or craftsmanship but getting better.

 

Belt sander... ok that makes total sense. I have a good chop saw but could not for the life of me get things closer than 1/8” variance. Belt sander. Fabulous. Plus it’ll be a lot quicker to score the tips with it.

 

 

[wmblake2000]

> @"Howard Jones" said:

> > @wmblake2000 said:

> > @"Howard Jones" I *wish* I knew how to build within 1mm tolerance. T

>

> Always do loft and lie as the absolute first stage. (if play specs is unknown, set to STD)

> Make a routine for how the club shall lie on the ruler when you measure.

> Measure and equalize hosel specs / dont forget tip weights if needed, and that tip weights "shim up" the shaft". Use a measure "block" to set the cut mark at butt, remember to SUB 1/8" for the Grip Cap. Cut using a Rotating Chopsaw (the type we bend the neck on to cut) Always cut on the LONG side of the cut mark.

> Grind down butt to target - check length during grinding.

>

> Routines and "standards" for how you measure and progress in the job from Loft and lie to SW or balance is of highly importance, so make sure you always follow the same steps, especial the way you place the club on the ruler and measure.

 

 

I am slowly developing stds but first need to figure out what they should be! This thread really helps a lot. Thanks again for your input. Always appreciate your generosity in sharing your expertise.

[wmblake2000]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> Hosel depths can vary. It's an area where the more costly the clubs are the more likely they will be similar. Always glue first then butt cut to desired club length.

 

 

Others think it’s better to figure out any hosel variance first, build that into how you make dry cuts before gluing so you can do swing weights.

[Pepperturbo]

> @wmblake2000 said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > Hosel depths can vary. It's an area where the more costly the clubs are the more likely they will be similar. Always glue first then butt cut to desired club length.

>

>

> Others think it’s better to figure out any hosel variance first, build that into how you make dry cuts before gluing so you can do swing weights.

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear. That was the reason I started with hosel depths vary, then glue and cut. Anyway, good luck.

[giogolf]

My method of building irons are as follows:

After all heads and shafts are cleaned and prepped I:

1. Weight sort and label my grips

2. Dry fit my shafts, measure and cut

3. Swing weight my irons with cut shaft (unglued), add the grip based on weight sorting and tip weights where necessary based on what swing weight I want. (important Note: If my dry fit, shaft, grip, head and tip weight come out to say d2, I know when i glue it between the double sided tape and epoxy it will remain at D2 as these 2 apposing weights cancel each other out.)

4. Add ferrules "after" tip weights are chosen (tip weights will add about 1/32" to the tip length and will leave a gap between the ferrule and hosel if you install it prior to tip weight)

5. Re swing weight after ferrules are installed

6. Pay attention to total weight.. Sometime heads or shafts are so for off that after tip weighting the total weight will increase drastically.. I like to keep descending weights in my irons.. Meaning, my 3 iron should not be heavier in total weight than my 4 iron. etc... (If this occurs I double check my shafts then my heads to see where the weight is lost or gained)

7. Glue it all up

8. After glue drys turn the ferrules, install grips

9. re swing weight and add lead tape if Im off a little bit..

[wmblake2000]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> > @wmblake2000 said:

> > > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > Hosel depths can vary. It's an area where the more costly the clubs are the more likely they will be similar. Always glue first then butt cut to desired club length.

> >

> >

> > Others think it’s better to figure out any hosel variance first, build that into how you make dry cuts before gluing so you can do swing weights.

>

> Sorry, I wasn't clear. That was the reason I started with hosel depths vary, then glue and cut. Anyway, good luck.

 

I understood your point about varying hosel depth. I wasn’t clear...those suggesting cut before you glue take this into account first by measuring each hosel depth and vary cut length accordingly, if necessary. I measured mine and found only very slight hosel variance.

 

[mogc60]

I measure the depth and still glue before cutting. It’s peace of mind more than anything. I do all the homework but still don’t want to cut it til it’s finished and I measure it glued.

[wmblake2000]

> @mogc60 said:

> I measure the depth and still glue before cutting. It’s peace of mind more than anything. I do all the homework but still don’t want to cut it til it’s finished and I measure it glued.

 

Do you pay attention to swing weight? If so, how?