New Tour Championship Format

[DavePelz4]

> @Lefty96 said:

> I would like to see the playoffs turn away from the idea of rewarding “season long” performance and turn into an actual playoffs like any other sport.

>

> At the end of the season take the top 125 players and let them play the first event. Then take the top 70 and ties and let them play in the second event. Then take the top 30 and ties and let them play the championship, winner take all without a handicap.

>

> The reward for playing well in the regular season should be making the playoffs. Once you’re in you should have to win it just like every other sport. I’d watch that start to finish.

 

This is a really good idea.

[farmer]

The whole playoff thing is to try and get a late season ratings bump. It's serious money, but outside golf nerds and shut ins I doubt there's a lot of playoff interest.

[Shilgy]

> @DavePelz4 said:

> > @Lefty96 said:

> > I would like to see the playoffs turn away from the idea of rewarding “season long” performance and turn into an actual playoffs like any other sport.

> >

> > At the end of the season take the top 125 players and let them play the first event. Then take the top 70 and ties and let them play in the second event. Then take the top 30 and ties and let them play the championship, winner take all without a handicap.

> >

> > The reward for playing well in the regular season should be making the playoffs. Once you’re in you should have to win it just like every other sport. I’d watch that start to finish.

>

> This is a really good idea.

 

It is a great idea but would never fly. On this forum we already have guys whining that the season long results do not matter enough. Then a Koepka could get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs? Sacrilege!!

Personally I like the idea. We have the same discussions of this forum year after year after year about the FedEx Cup. You would think guys would learn it is the playoffs and not just a continuation of the regular season. Other sports do handicap the field through byes and home field advantage. Nothing wrong with golf doing the same.

[Lefty96]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @DavePelz4 said:

> > > @Lefty96 said:

> > > I would like to see the playoffs turn away from the idea of rewarding “season long” performance and turn into an actual playoffs like any other sport.

> > >

> > > At the end of the season take the top 125 players and let them play the first event. Then take the top 70 and ties and let them play in the second event. Then take the top 30 and ties and let them play the championship, winner take all without a handicap.

> > >

> > > The reward for playing well in the regular season should be making the playoffs. Once you’re in you should have to win it just like every other sport. I’d watch that start to finish.

> >

> > This is a really good idea.

>

> It is a great idea but would never fly. On this forum we already have guys whining that the season long results do not matter enough. Then a Koepka could get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs? Sacrilege!!

> Personally I like the idea. We have the same discussions of this forum year after year after year about the FedEx Cup. You would think guys would learn it is the playoffs and not just a continuation of the regular season. Other sports do handicap the field through byes and home field advantage. Nothing wrong with golf doing the same.

 

 

So maybe you reward the top 5 guys on the points list with a bye until the second round, and maybe let number 1 all the way into the tour championship. Personally I’d rather see them play for it but your right it would suck to see the top guy go down in the first round. I don’t like the current format for the finish. The ”winner” likely won’t have actually won.

 

[OBbogey5]

JT has to win by three or more. Anything other than that and someone got screwed out of a win. The odds are that someone will get screwed out of a win.

[Kale_m]

Why not play all year to seed yourself in the top 30 and then the tour championship is match play. Give the top guys a bye through the first round or something

[BiggErn]

> @Kale_m said:

> Why not play all year to seed yourself in the top 30 and then the tour championship is match play. Give the top guys a bye through the first round or something

 

Match play is the worst possible way to find the best individual player.

[lchang]

> @OBbogey5 said:

> JT has to win by three or more. Anything other than that and someone got screwed out of a win. The odds are that someone will get screwed out of a win.

 

Even if he wins by 3, if the second place guy started more than 3 back (which is 90% of the field), that second place guy would have won if it were a regular tourney.

[Mick Douglas]

How about if you had:

4 wins you start on X under par

3 wins you start on X under par

And so on.

Reward the winners for the season not just the guy who wins 2/3 weeks before the finale.

[Golfjack]

> @SkiSchoolPro said:

> FWIW, I think Cantlay now has the lowest scoring average on Tour this year, just ahead of Rory.

> Haven't done the research, but I would bet that the year Haas or another one of the dark horses won the FEC, they beat the #1 guy by 7-10+ shots. How many shots did JT beat BK by last week? Point is, there very well could be a winner from outside the top 5 (but the guy who shoots the low score for the week may not win).

> Is the OWGR going to ignore this tournament?

 

Where did you get that? He's 17th.

https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.35450.patrick-cantlay.html

[imakaveli]

This FedEx Cup thing finds a way to disappoint us every year :D

[MountainGoat]

> @"Mick Douglas" said:

> How about if you had:

> 4 wins you start on X under par

> 3 wins you start on X under par

> And so on.

> Reward the winners for the season not just the guy who wins 2/3 weeks before the finale.

 

There's already a tournament that features winners. It's called the "Tournament of Champions", and it's played in Hawaii every January. The present format factors in tournament winners by giving them more FedEx points. It also factors Majors by giving those tournaments more points. As for favoring the guy who gets hot late, all tournament championships in all sports favor the guy/team that gets hot at the right time. Just look at the Super Bowl.

[ray9898]

The Tour is on the right path. There are endless complaints on here about the process but it gives us the top 30 performers all season in a final showdown. In an effort to recognize those at the top you now have handicapped scoring, golf is unable to recognize them in ways other sports do such as seeding, byes or home-field advantage.

[buckeye440]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @buckeye440 said:

> > It is flat out dumb, at least from American sports perspective. NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and MLS do not handicap their playoffs other than a bye. Seriously could you imagine if the 16-0 Pats team got like 3 TD lead against the wildcard Giants years back? Yeah, did not think so and it is because Americans love their underdogs. The current format is un-American. The tour could adjust the prizes to give more money to the regular season winner and less to the playoff winner if they want to emphasize the regular season. Could always make it like the EPL and have no playoffs (I think) but then no ability for that sweet FedEx sponsorship money.

>

> Well, you do know that golf is not a team sport, it's an individual sport and not to be compared with others. It's played over four days not one. First you have to make the playoffs then you can make something happen because the points are quadrupled. Nothing is guaranteed because there is no Bye, nor is there a home field advantage.....just ask Brooks about losing his #1 seed......Let's see how this plays out. Been pretty exciting for me so far. Golf would like to have it's own identity, not follow some other sports format.

 

Being a team sport has nothing to do about it/my point. Other than the NFL, all those league playoffs are 3-7 games (excluding MLS because I do not know their format but champions league are 2 games) so again not sure your point on this one. All these teams have to make the playoffs to make something happen. Top players can skip first round and still advance (I think it has been done before) a la NFL (other sports do not have byes to my knowledge). I will ask again, should the Patriots/Golden State Warriors get spotted 21 points to start a game? Once you make the playoffs, there should be a tabula rosa. That is the American way. You did the dirty work (season), you should get a fair shot for the glory (playoffs).

 

 

[buckeye440]

> @aabcuue said:

> > @buckeye440 said:

> > It is flat out dumb, at least from American sports perspective. NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and MLS do not handicap their playoffs other than a bye....

> > The tour could adjust the prizes to give more money to the regular season winner and less to the playoff winner if they want to emphasize the regular season. Could always make it like the EPL and have no playoffs (I think) but then no ability for that sweet FedEx sponsorship money.

>

> You forgot or didn't know there was a Wyndham regular season award? Brooks got $2mil for #1. Rory got #2 1.5mil over Kuch #3 by a few pts & 1.2mil.

>

> Only notable about presentation was Rors roasted Kuch over mexico caddy incident.

> https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/rory-mcilroy-delivered-absolutely-vicious-000115036.html

 

No I did not. Pretty poor comprehension of what I wrote. If you read my post you would realize I actually know there is a regular season payout hence me saying if we want to emphasize past performance i.e. from the regular season, as this format does by giving players stroke advantage in the tour championship; why not make the regular season winner a higher payout? In the English Premier League, the winner of the regular season is the winner of the league (I think).

[FairwaysToHeaven]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @Kale_m said:

> > Why not play all year to seed yourself in the top 30 and then the tour championship is match play. Give the top guys a bye through the first round or something

>

> Match play is the worst possible way to find the best individual player.

 

i agree....but its fairly obvious who the best individual player is right now. The overall best player for the season is rewarded with the title 'player of the year'.

Match play involving 8-16 of the top guys would be entertaining. The fedex needs to move towards entertaining rather than pretending this is some kind of championship similar to other sports. golf is different as the majors will always be more important.

[jdl]

Playoffs for team sports are great. Trying to have them for an individual sport like golf gives you idiocy like this.

[umassgolfer]

Sorry to be this guy and not read the whole thread but I have been thinking about this a lot lately and wanted to share my idea.

 

FedEx Cup playoffs would start handicapped for the top-100 (not 125). Top-10 begin at -10, next 10 at -9, and so on. That's your incentive for playing the best during the regular season. Much like seeding in a traditional playoff. From there, it is a three-week aggregate playoff. After Northern Trust (no cut), the top-70 advance. So the #35 player could start at -7, finishes the tournament at -16 after shooting -9 for the week. The #1 player would start at -10. If they are +2 for the week they are at -8 playoff score. Is that enough to advance? Who knows...

 

Scores do not re-set going into BMW. That #35 player going into Northern Trust enters BMW at aggregate -16, and the #1 ranked player from regular season enters BMW (or not) at -8. After BMW, the top 30 (or maybe expand to 40) move on to Tour Championship. And then at the end of the Tour Championship, the winner is determined based on the three week leaderboard. Prize money for FedEx Cup is pooled - purses + FEC bonus - and paid out according to final FEC playoff standings.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

> @ray9898 said:

> The Tour is on the right path. There are endless complaints on here about the process but it gives us the top 30 performers all season in a final showdown. In an effort to recognize those at the top you now have handicapped scoring, golf is unable to recognize them in ways other sports do such as seeding, byes or home-field advantage.

 

the problem with handicapped scoring is it brings in the likelihood the player who plays best this week won't actually win the fedex. it would be similar to playing in a neutral ballpark and giving the team who had the better season record a few extra runs to start the game. the fedex attempts to create drama. its tough to have it both ways. reward the season performances while still maintaining the playoff formula that allows others a chance to win.

 

we're going to end up with one of two scenarios. one guy like JT running away with the tournament....or a lower ranked player shooting the best 4 round score of the week yet still losing the tournament. you can't hide their actual weeks score even though thats what they're trying to do by giving guys a starting advantage relative to par.

 

 

[SkiSchoolPro]

> @Golfjack said:

> > @SkiSchoolPro said:

> > FWIW, I think Cantlay now has the lowest scoring average on Tour this year, just ahead of Rory.

> > Haven't done the research, but I would bet that the year Haas or another one of the dark horses won the FEC, they beat the #1 guy by 7-10+ shots. How many shots did JT beat BK by last week? Point is, there very well could be a winner from outside the top 5 (but the guy who shoots the low score for the week may not win).

> > Is the OWGR going to ignore this tournament?

>

> Where did you get that? He's 17th.

> https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.35450.patrick-cantlay.html

Check again...PGATour.com was having some issues showing old data on individual player pages.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats.html

Pretty sure he is #1 adjusted and #2 actual PGA Tour scoring for the season.

Also, the Sagarin/Golf Week rankings, which are more based on head to head scoring aves and consistency rather than big tournament wins has him #1 for the past year http://rankings.golfweek.com/rankings/default.asp?T=world

With Rory #2

[Titleist99]

> @buckeye440 said:

> > @Titleist99 said:

> > > @buckeye440 said:

> > > It is flat out dumb, at least from American sports perspective. NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and MLS do not handicap their playoffs other than a bye. Seriously could you imagine if the 16-0 Pats team got like 3 TD lead against the wildcard Giants years back? Yeah, did not think so and it is because Americans love their underdogs. The current format is un-American. The tour could adjust the prizes to give more money to the regular season winner and less to the playoff winner if they want to emphasize the regular season. Could always make it like the EPL and have no playoffs (I think) but then no ability for that sweet FedEx sponsorship money.

> >

> > Well, you do know that golf is not a team sport, it's an individual sport and not to be compared with others. It's played over four days not one. First you have to make the playoffs then you can make something happen because the points are quadrupled. Nothing is guaranteed because there is no Bye, nor is there a home field advantage.....just ask Brooks about losing his #1 seed......Let's see how this plays out. Been pretty exciting for me so far. Golf would like to have it's own identity, not follow some other sports format.

>

> Being a team sport has nothing to do about it/my point. Other than the NFL, all those league playoffs are 3-7 games (excluding MLS because I do not know their format but champions league are 2 games) so again not sure your point on this one. All these teams have to make the playoffs to make something happen. Top players can skip first round and still advance (I think it has been done before) a la NFL (other sports do not have byes to my knowledge). I will ask again, should the Patriots/Golden State Warriors get spotted 21 points to start a game? Once you make the playoffs, there should be a tabula rosa. That is the American way. You did the dirty work (season), you should get a fair shot for the glory (playoffs).

>

>

In other sports there is a big difference between the #1 and the #20,,,,,,in golf the difference is marginal between the #1 and the #20. Point #2....Home court advantage is HUGE in team sports. Point #3......The PGA Tour do not want players skipping tournaments that's why they went to three. Point #4......This is golf, they want their own playoffs, not other sports playoffs…...If you know the rules at the beginning of the year you should play more and play better, So you don't miss Eastlake like Tiger Woods did.

 

[Titleist99]

> @ray9898 said:

> The Tour is on the right path. There are endless complaints on here about the process but it gives us the top 30 performers all season in a final showdown. In an effort to recognize those at the top you now have handicapped scoring, golf is unable to recognize them in ways other sports do such as seeding, byes or home-field advantage.

 

We are in total agreement.....It would seem that we have a have a host of WRXers on this board that would like to have golf's playoffs look like other sports, when golf is unique. Golf wants it's own playoffs and I think that they're on the right track. People forget that giving strokes is the one thing golf brags about. Now the Wrxers is poo pooing all over it.....LOL!

[LICC]

> @lchang said:

> > @OBbogey5 said:

> > JT has to win by three or more. Anything other than that and someone got screwed out of a win. The odds are that someone will get screwed out of a win.

>

> Even if he wins by 3, if the second place guy started more than 3 back (which is 90% of the field), that second place guy would have won if it were a regular tourney.

 

But this isn't exact either. JT will play differently based on his lead. If he as a two-shot lead on Cantlay with 4 holes left, he will play differently than if he was one-shot down with 4 holes left. You can't know exactly how the results would have differed if they all started even.

[manku]

I love all the people complaining about this format and the event hasn't even begun! Why not wait until Sunday night to see how it all pans out.

FWIW, I haven't heard any pros complaining....yet.

 

[Titleist99]

> @jdl said:

> Playoffs for team sports are great. Trying to have them for an individual sport like golf gives you idiocy like this.

 

Exactly! ….. golf is unique. The best player doesn't always win, especially in golf.

[BiggErn]

> @HoosierMizuno said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @Kale_m said:

> > > Why not play all year to seed yourself in the top 30 and then the tour championship is match play. Give the top guys a bye through the first round or something

> >

> > Match play is the worst possible way to find the best individual player.

>

> i agree....but its fairly obvious who the best individual player is right now. The overall best player for the season is rewarded with the title 'player of the year'.

> Match play involving 8-16 of the top guys would be entertaining. The fedex needs to move towards entertaining rather than pretending this is some kind of championship similar to other sports. golf is different as the majors will always be more important.

 

If the point is to play all year is to get into a handicapped tournament then what’s the point in having it? I’m sure guys on the bottom end feel like they’re just wasting their time.

[SkiSchoolPro]

> @Titleist99 said:

> > @jdl said:

> > Playoffs for team sports are great. Trying to have them for an individual sport like golf gives you idiocy like this.

>

> Exactly! ….. golf is unique. The best player doesn't always win, especially in golf.

 

I think the biggest issue is more related to the fact that the golf world already recognizes the 4 majors as the pinnacle of success, not that it is a team sport. The fact that any of the 30 in the TC could have the lowest score for the week does compound things, but even if you had 30 teams of golfers, this might be the case...fact of the matter is that golfer results tend to be less consistent than many other results.

[Titleist99]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @HoosierMizuno said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Kale_m said:

> > > > Why not play all year to seed yourself in the top 30 and then the tour championship is match play. Give the top guys a bye through the first round or something

> > >

> > > Match play is the worst possible way to find the best individual player.

> >

> > i agree....but its fairly obvious who the best individual player is right now. The overall best player for the season is rewarded with the title 'player of the year'.

> > Match play involving 8-16 of the top guys would be entertaining. The fedex needs to move towards entertaining rather than pretending this is some kind of championship similar to other sports. golf is different as the majors will always be more important.

>

> If the point is to play all year is to get into a handicapped tournament then what’s the point in having it? I’m sure guys on the bottom end feel like they’re just wasting their time.

And I'm sure Tiger would trade places with any one of them and still think that he could win it...

 

[JDCON]

Wait... handicap? FedEx points?

 

I’m so out of touch with the PGA Tour.

 

They should have a Muni Championship. Play a municipal course in terrible condition. They must also drink until they are on the verge of puking and smoke a cigar. Rounds must be played at least 5 1/2 hours long. They’ll also have a bev cart girl to interrupt their shots randomly. Also, they must get swing tips from a bogey golfer on each nine.

[Titleist99]

> @manku said:

> I love all the people complaining about this format and the event hasn't even begun! Why not wait until Sunday night to see how it all pans out.

> FWIW, I haven't heard any pros complaining....yet.

>

 

Because they love to complain!