New Tour Championship Format

[umassgolfer]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @HoosierMizuno said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @Kale_m said:

> > > > Why not play all year to seed yourself in the top 30 and then the tour championship is match play. Give the top guys a bye through the first round or something

> > >

> > > Match play is the worst possible way to find the best individual player.

> >

> > i agree....but its fairly obvious who the best individual player is right now. The overall best player for the season is rewarded with the title 'player of the year'.

> > Match play involving 8-16 of the top guys would be entertaining. The fedex needs to move towards entertaining rather than pretending this is some kind of championship similar to other sports. golf is different as the majors will always be more important.

>

> If the point is to play all year is to get into a handicapped tournament then what’s the point in having it? I’m sure guys on the bottom end feel like they’re just wasting their time.

 

I've got about 395,000 reasons why I bet they don't feel that way...

 

As in... they earn more to be dead last at the Tour Championship than t-4 at 3M or solo 5th at The Memorial, almost as good as this year's 4-way T-5 at the Masters, better than solo-7th at the US Open, etc...

[c7015]

Hard to see JT not winning

 

I mean with 30 players how big will the spread of first to last be ... then again looking at last week t7 was 10 shots back ...

[bigred90gt]

> @HoosierMizuno said:

>** the problem with handicapped scoring is it brings in the likelihood the player who plays best this week won't actually win the fedex. **it would be similar to playing in a neutral ballpark and giving the team who had the better season record a few extra runs to start the game. the fedex attempts to create drama. its tough to have it both ways. reward the season performances while still maintaining the playoff formula that allows others a chance to win.

>

> we're going to end up with one of two scenarios. one guy like JT running away with the tournament....or a lower ranked player shooting the best 4 round score of the week yet still losing the tournament. you can't hide their actual weeks score even though thats what they're trying to do by giving guys a starting advantage relative to par.

>

>

 

That happened last year, and has happened a few other years.

 

I personally don’t like the idea of handicapping the event, but I don’t have any better ideas to weight the fedex so that season long performance is still a factor. I do think the 4x points should be for a major and not the two playoff events. Maybe 2x for a WGC, 3x for a playoff event and 4x for a major?

 

I think the system was fine as it was. If the intent is to have one person win both, then once the field is set, get rid of the points and make it a winner takes all. But don’t give a guy strokes to start the week.

 

[BiggErn]

> @umassgolfer said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @HoosierMizuno said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @Kale_m said:

> > > > > Why not play all year to seed yourself in the top 30 and then the tour championship is match play. Give the top guys a bye through the first round or something

> > > >

> > > > Match play is the worst possible way to find the best individual player.

> > >

> > > i agree....but its fairly obvious who the best individual player is right now. The overall best player for the season is rewarded with the title 'player of the year'.

> > > Match play involving 8-16 of the top guys would be entertaining. The fedex needs to move towards entertaining rather than pretending this is some kind of championship similar to other sports. golf is different as the majors will always be more important.

> >

> > If the point is to play all year is to get into a handicapped tournament then what’s the point in having it? I’m sure guys on the bottom end feel like they’re just wasting their time.

>

> I've got about 395,000 reasons why I bet they don't feel that way...

>

> As in... they earn more to be dead last at the Tour Championship than t-4 at 3M or solo 5th at The Memorial, almost as good as this year's 4-way T-5 at the Masters, better than solo-7th at the US Open, etc...

 

Yes, showing up for a check with virtually no chance to win.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

the new format isn't all that different compared to the previous years. the major difference is they tried to simplify the system transferring the points system into actual strokes. for example...instead of JT having a 450 points lead on someone to start the tournament, its now 3 shots. in this way i like the change as it won't require a calculator and a whiteboard to explain who needs to do what to win. golf dot com ran a story showing that of all the fed ex finals, this new system would've resulted in a different winner only twice. i still dislike the overall format and prefer we end with a small field squaring off in match play, but i do think its an improvement to past years.

[stanger37]

> @HoosierMizuno said:

> the new format isn't all that different compared to the previous years. the major difference is they tried to simplify the system transferring the points system into actual strokes. for example...instead of JT having a 450 points lead on someone to start the tournament, its now 3 shots. in this way i like the change as it won't require a calculator and a whiteboard to explain who needs to do what to win. golf dot com ran a story showing that of all the fed ex finals, this new system would've resulted in a different winner only twice. i still dislike the overall format and prefer we end with a small field squaring off in match play, but i do think its an improvement to past years.

 

when you mention the need to no longer do any explaining. I am going to enjoy not seeing GREEN and RED boxes all over the place all day long, after a putt, on each drive, on every leaderboard, every commercial break. that will be nice.

[jmkenn0]

> @HoosierMizuno said:

> the new format isn't all that different compared to the previous years. the major difference is they tried to simplify the system transferring the points system into actual strokes. for example...instead of JT having a 450 points lead on someone to start the tournament, its now 3 shots. in this way i like the change as it won't require a calculator and a whiteboard to explain who needs to do what to win. golf dot com ran a story showing that of all the fed ex finals, this new system would've resulted in a different winner only twice. i still dislike the overall format and prefer we end with a small field squaring off in match play, but i do think its an improvement to past years.

 

Yep, this is the lens everyone should be viewing this as. Its not the silly green and red boxes, its just whoever has the lowest score wins it. I would agree that it should be adjusted to give more weight to the regular season. I also liked the thought of having a running aggregate score over the playoffs as well, with the handicap mixed in for the regular season results.

 

I applaud them for trying something different to try to garner more interest, because ultimately this is just an entertainment product.

[SkiSchoolPro]

> @c7015 said:

> Hard to see JT not winning

>

> I mean with 30 players how big will the spread of first to last be ... **then again looking at last week t7 was 10 shots back** ...

Yes, and don't forget that last year BDC came in #1 and finished in 19th place, 10 back of Tiger (who came in #20).

 

Obviously, if JT shoots multiple course records like he did last week, the tournament will be a real snooze-fest, but winners on the PGA Tour tend to miss the cut the next week more often than winning 2 in a row (but obviously, there will be no missed cuts this week). Looking at the odds online, you can get better than 2-1 on JT, meaning the bookies see him winning less than 1 out of 3 times.

 

[ray9898]

> @HoosierMizuno said:

> > @ray9898 said:

> > The Tour is on the right path. There are endless complaints on here about the process but it gives us the top 30 performers all season in a final showdown. In an effort to recognize those at the top you now have handicapped scoring, golf is unable to recognize them in ways other sports do such as seeding, byes or home-field advantage.

>

> the problem with handicapped scoring is it brings in the likelihood the player who plays best this week won't actually win the fedex. it would be similar to playing in a neutral ballpark and giving the team who had the better season record a few extra runs to start the game. the fedex attempts to create drama. its tough to have it both ways. reward the season performances while still maintaining the playoff formula that allows others a chance to win.

>

> we're going to end up with one of two scenarios. one guy like JT running away with the tournament....or a lower ranked player shooting the best 4 round score of the week yet still losing the tournament. you can't hide their actual weeks score even though thats what they're trying to do by giving guys a starting advantage relative to par.

>

>

 

.....but golf is not a team sport and most of the ways of recognizing the top performers that are used in other sports are not workable. It is a unique process.

[golfgirlrobin]

I don’t mind the handicap angle for the FedEx Cup, it just means that I don’t have to listen to Steve Sands, and that’s fine by me.

 

What I don’t like is the end of the Tour Championship as a separate event. I have no issue with the guy with the most points being the FedEx champion, obviously, but you haven’t won the four day Tour Championship unless you had the lowest score over four days. Were people really so confused by having a tournament winner and a FedEx Champion that they had to sacrifice the tour championship as a stand alone tournament? When they list the guys who won the Tour Championship, are they really going to add a name that didn’t take the fewest strokes in the actual tournament?

[BiggErn]

> @golfgirlrobin said:

> I don’t mind the handicap angle for the FedEx Cup, it just means that I don’t have to listen to Steve Sands, and that’s fine by me.

>

> What I don’t like is the end of the Tour Championship as a separate event. I have no issue with the guy with the most points being the FedEx champion, obviously, but you haven’t won the four day Tour Championship unless you had the lowest score over four days. Were people really so confused by having a tournament winner and a FedEx Champion that they had to sacrifice the tour championship as a stand alone tournament? When they list the guys who won the Tour Championship, are they really going to add a name that didn’t take the fewest strokes in the actual tournament?

 

Exactly. The Tour Championship winner and FedEx Cup winner should be 2 separate things. The pga tour setup has officially became worse than nascar.

[jlbos83]

In a way "they" are trying to have it both ways. Have "playoffs", and yet have the FedEx Cup be based on the whole season. I'm not sure you can really do both, which is what things like last year proved. How can the winner of the playoffs not be the winner of the last event. But, if you want to have the rest of the year mean something more than just qualification for the playoffs, were do you end up? Kind of where we are. I am half tempted to say that if you qualify for the last event, you all start even, and it's a 72 hole drag race. It's not like there are any chumps in the top 30, so any winner will be deserving.

[Body_Visions]

Does anyone know if the tournament will count as an official win?

 

I don’t see how it could, and if so, makes the format even more of a joke.

[WidespreadPanic]

I’m actually really looking forward to watching this. Of course that is mostly because it’s so incredibly outrageous that this is how the FedEx Cup is decided - a net championship. I expect the guys at the bottom half of the board to go and play as aggressive as they can, which at East Lake can mean either fire or flames. It should be interesting to watch if you can embrace how absurd it is. There’s a chance it could quickly just turn into another tournament where some guys can win and some can’t, but I hope it stays weird.

[Titleist99]

> @WidespreadPanic said:

> I’m actually really looking forward to watching this. Of course that is mostly because it’s so incredibly outrageous that this is how the FedEx Cup is decided - a net championship. I expect the guys at the bottom half of the board to go and play as aggressive as they can, which at East Lake can mean either fire or flames. It should be interesting to watch if you can embrace how absurd it is. There’s a chance it could quickly just turn into another tournament where some guys can win and some can’t, but I hope it stays weird.

 

Every year half the teams in the NBA make the championship playoffs tournament......Now that's outrageous!

 

Some don't stand a chance but the NBA is doing just fine...

[SkiSchoolPro]

> @Body_Visions said:

> Does anyone know if the tournament will count as an official win?

>

> I don’t see how it could, and if so, makes the format even more of a joke.

 

Yes, with a 5 year exemption per https://www.pgatour.com/news/2019/08/18/how-it-works-tour-championship-fedexcup-playoffs.html

However, according to the comments section at https://www.pgatour.com/tour-insider/2019/08/07/new-tour-championship-format-aims-provide-excitement-fedexcup-playoffs-east-lake-golf-club.html

the OWGR will award points WITHOUT the pre-tournament handicaps. So, as far as OWGR goes, there is still a tournament within a tournament. I couldn't find this on the OWGR.com site, but did find https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2019/04/16/pga-tours-tour-championship-will-award-official-world-golf-ranking-points-with-separate-leaderboard-113031/

[grm24]

> @c7015 said:

> Hard to see JT not winning

>

> I mean with 30 players how big will the spread of first to last be ... then again looking at last week t7 was 10 shots back ...

 

Last year the first/last place stroke difference at The Tour Championship was 24 shots. Tiger -11/Phil +13

[dalehead]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @golfgirlrobin said:

> > I don’t mind the handicap angle for the FedEx Cup, it just means that I don’t have to listen to Steve Sands, and that’s fine by me.

> >

> > What I don’t like is the end of the Tour Championship as a separate event. I have no issue with the guy with the most points being the FedEx champion, obviously, but you haven’t won the four day Tour Championship unless you had the lowest score over four days. Were people really so confused by having a tournament winner and a FedEx Champion that they had to sacrifice the tour championship as a stand alone tournament? When they list the guys who won the Tour Championship, are they really going to add a name that didn’t take the fewest strokes in the actual tournament?

>

> Exactly. The Tour Championship winner and FedEx Cup winner should be 2 separate things. The pga tour setup has officially became worse than nascar.

 

Bingo! What was wrong with having two winners? One who was the winner of the last tournament of the season and one who was the top performer of the year based on points? Maybe they are trying to live up to the “Tour Championship “ name. Calling the tournament that implies the winner is the champion, the top player, on tour that year. In reality he is the winner of one limited field tournament. Maybe the solution is to drop the Tour Championship name. Call it the East Lake Classic Presented by Fed Ex and continue with dual winners if that’s how things work out.

[80sFredriksson]

Make it match play and let ranking determine seed and give a couple of holes with a max of say 3 depending on difference in ranking

[BiggErn]

> @80sFredriksson said:

> Make it match play and let ranking determine seed and give a couple of holes with a max of say 3 depending on difference in ranking

 

Matchplay is the worst possible method of identifying the best golfer that week and that’s what a tournament is supposed to do. The handicap deal is absurd as well. They should’ve kept the tour championship and fedex cup separate where the best golfer this week wins the tournament and the most consistent for the year wins the FedEx cup.

[Hankshank]

Having a Tour Championship winner and a FedEx winner, I had no problems with that.

But we'll se sunday how the new format turns out. Kind of hard to say beforehand.

[aliikane]

> @Bingo1976 said:

> Change it to top 32 matchplay. Winner takes it all.

 

I think match play format for FedEx Cup makes more sense. Then as an incentive, top rank players can be exempt from first rounds (like in tennis) or perhaps give top players a stroke advantage for matches based on their ranking just to make it interesting. However, I like the money breakdown as they have now. It would be much more interesting.

[Body_Visions]

> @SkiSchoolPro said:

> > @Body_Visions said:

> > Does anyone know if the tournament will count as an official win?

> >

> > I don’t see how it could, and if so, makes the format even more of a joke.

>

> Yes, with a 5 year exemption per https://www.pgatour.com/news/2019/08/18/how-it-works-tour-championship-fedexcup-playoffs.html

> However, according to the comments section at https://www.pgatour.com/tour-insider/2019/08/07/new-tour-championship-format-aims-provide-excitement-fedexcup-playoffs-east-lake-golf-club.html

> the OWGR will award points WITHOUT the pre-tournament handicaps. So, as far as OWGR goes, there is still a tournament within a tournament. I couldn't find this on the OWGR.com site, but did find https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2019/04/16/pga-tours-tour-championship-will-award-official-world-golf-ranking-points-with-separate-leaderboard-113031/

 

> @SkiSchoolPro said:

> > @Body_Visions said:

> > Does anyone know if the tournament will count as an official win?

> >

> > I don’t see how it could, and if so, makes the format even more of a joke.

>

> Yes, with a 5 year exemption per https://www.pgatour.com/news/2019/08/18/how-it-works-tour-championship-fedexcup-playoffs.html

> However, according to the comments section at https://www.pgatour.com/tour-insider/2019/08/07/new-tour-championship-format-aims-provide-excitement-fedexcup-playoffs-east-lake-golf-club.html

> the OWGR will award points WITHOUT the pre-tournament handicaps. So, as far as OWGR goes, there is still a tournament within a tournament. I couldn't find this on the OWGR.com site, but did find https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2019/04/16/pga-tours-tour-championship-will-award-official-world-golf-ranking-points-with-separate-leaderboard-113031/

 

> @SkiSchoolPro said:

> > @Body_Visions said:

> > Does anyone know if the tournament will count as an official win?

> >

> > I don’t see how it could, and if so, makes the format even more of a joke.

>

> Yes, with a 5 year exemption per https://www.pgatour.com/news/2019/08/18/how-it-works-tour-championship-fedexcup-playoffs.html

> However, according to the comments section at https://www.pgatour.com/tour-insider/2019/08/07/new-tour-championship-format-aims-provide-excitement-fedexcup-playoffs-east-lake-golf-club.html

> the OWGR will award points WITHOUT the pre-tournament handicaps. So, as far as OWGR goes, there is still a tournament within a tournament. I couldn't find this on the OWGR.com site, but did find https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2019/04/16/pga-tours-tour-championship-will-award-official-world-golf-ranking-points-with-separate-leaderboard-113031/

 

Thanks for that information. I still don’t like it, but what do I know.

[Body_Visions]

Been thinking about this.....couldn’t the same thing have been accomplished by having two separate leaderboards, instead of all the formulas?

[umassgolfer]

My (not super serious) conspiracy theory is the TOUR was tired of the purists bagging on the old FedEx Cup / TOUR Championship format, and figured "We'll make them miss the way it was" by going with the most off the wall concept they could think of. I think until this year, everyone thought that system was terrible, yet now many, even the most vocal TOUR critics, are saying it should go back to that format. There were ALWAYS cries of "this is too complicated" and "how can this be a playoff if the winner of the TOUR Championship doesn't win the FedEx Cup?" Well guess what? That is solved now.

 

I'm guessing this will last for a year or two, get tweaked and evolve as it has every couple years since FedEx Cup began. Golf is too slow moving to adopt to any kind of radical change. So many say they want innovation but really only want it as long as that innovation is a slight tweak on the accepted norms. Let's maybe be open minded about this and see how it goes this year before panning it as the worst thing that happened to golf since rounds over 3 hours.

 

But then again, I was one of the few who realized the FedEx Cup original format, overly sponsored and cash-grabby as it was, provided a net positive of 3 or 4 weeks of stacked leaderboards in weeks that used to be much weaker. I also realize for many the TOUR will never be able to do right until all sponsorships are banned, every shot is aired and every week has a Major-Caliber field.

 

 

[Titleist99]

The format is fine....the only way to make this better, is have this.... five rounds with a Monday finish for a whopping $20M. It could be billed as The Battle Of The Fittest.

[Titleist99]

> @umassgolfer said:

> My (not super serious) conspiracy theory is the TOUR was tired of the purists bagging on the old FedEx Cup / TOUR Championship format, and figured "We'll make them miss the way it was" by going with the most off the wall concept they could think of. I think until this year, everyone thought that system was terrible, yet now many, even the most vocal TOUR critics, are saying it should go back to that format. There were ALWAYS cries of "this is too complicated" and "how can this be a playoff if the winner of the TOUR Championship doesn't win the FedEx Cup?" Well guess what? That is solved now.

>

> I'm guessing this will last for a year or two, get tweaked and evolve as it has every couple years since FedEx Cup began. Golf is too slow moving to adopt to any kind of radical change. So many say they want innovation but really only want it as long as that innovation is a slight tweak on the accepted norms. Let's maybe be open minded about this and see how it goes this year before panning it as the worst thing that happened to golf since rounds over 3 hours.

>

> But then again, I was one of the few who realized the FedEx Cup original format, overly sponsored and cash-grabby as it was, provided a net positive of 3 or 4 weeks of stacked leaderboards in weeks that used to be much weaker. I also realize for many the TOUR will never be able to do right until all sponsorships are banned, every shot is aired and every week has a Major-Caliber field.

>

>

 

LOL! The fans that you refer to wants to be progressive but also yearns for their fathers PGA Tour. Can't have 'em both...LOL!

 

The main story after the first round should be.....Who closed the gap.

[BostonWRX]

My issue with it is it does not reward the best golfer during the season. Playoff tournaments give out way to many points. No way should JT be ranked above Koepka going into the final tournament

Koepka has earned almost 9.7 mil this year with 3 wins(1 major) and 8 top 10s(2 2nds in majors)

JT has earned a little over 5 Million and has 6 top 10s and 1 win

 

[Shilgy]

> @TrueWRX said:

> My issue with it is it does not reward the best golfer during the season. Playoff tournaments give out way to many points. No way should JT be ranked above Koepka going into the final tournament

> Koepka has earned almost 9.7 mil this year with 3 wins(1 major) and 8 top 10s(2 2nds in majors)

> JT has earned a little over 5 Million and has 6 top 10s and 1 win

>

 

But at least Koepka is still playing. In any other sport the team that led the regular season can get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.

[BostonWRX]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @TrueWRX said:

> > My issue with it is it does not reward the best golfer during the season. Playoff tournaments give out way to many points. No way should JT be ranked above Koepka going into the final tournament

> > Koepka has earned almost 9.7 mil this year with 3 wins(1 major) and 8 top 10s(2 2nds in majors)

> > JT has earned a little over 5 Million and has 6 top 10s and 1 win

> >

>

> But at least Koepka is still playing. In any other sport the team that led the regular season can get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.

 

Its not an elimination sport so not sure how that relates to golf. Its the Year long Fed Ex cup.

 

Playoff tournaments should be worth more points then regular but just because you win 1 tournament shouldnt jump you past a guy who has won double the money as you.