Angry parents effective coaches?

[Noles]

Whether it has been helping my son with golf or the 23 seasons of HS basketball that I coached, I have always found that the more specific I was, the more effective I was and the better the message was received by my son, my players and their parents.

[RmoorePE]

 

 

Quote

Whether it has been helping my son with golf or the 23 seasons of HS basketball that I coached, I have always found that the more specific I was, the more effective I was and the better the message was received by my son, my players and their parents.

 

This one is the key. Emotional response to your athlete(s) without prior thought or effort does little good. You can be angry, or uplifting, quiet or loud as long as what you are doing addresses the issue you are trying to address. In the way that the target audience responds to.

 

I have seen aimless, screaming, yelling halftime speeches that scared kids and caused them to close up and I have seen and heard thundering, angry, halftime speeches that inspired a team to rally and grind out wins. 

 

Good parents know what works, and what doesn't. If your child responds better to stick than carrot, then use the stick. My golfer puts so much pressure on herself that any negative feedback is a no-no except in very specific practice situations.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by RmoorePE

[ChipNRun]

On 5/19/2021 at 8:57 AM, kelpie said:

Yelling might work in sports like football, etc.,  but I've never seen it work in golf. We are supposed to encourage players, not chew them out. When a kid is playing bad or struggling with a swing change that the kid is not doing it on purpose, they are trying their best.

 

Reminds me of a situation with big kids, specifically young female pros on the Symetra Tour (LPGA developmental). I was a volunteer caddie at one event in 2017.

 

The pre-cut threesomes for the first two days were the same. Two of us caddies were volunteers on decades' old experience as high school caddies. Third was a regular caddie/coach for player Alpha. The other two caddies were old enough to be the father of their player, and I was old enough to be the grandfather.

 

The regular caddie was borderline abusive to Alpha. If she put a drive into the rough, or missed a putt, he would get in her face and berate her in a loud voice with angry facial expressions. She was struggling with putts, and the lectures were frequent. Us other two caddies and the spectators could hear it. My wife complained to post-round about the guy.

 

After Round 1, the other caddie and I discussed whether we should give the pro caddie a talking to about whether he was doing more harm than good. We decided to stay out of it. Not sure the yelling helped Alpha with her scoring.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Post script. Anyway, all three missed the cut. For the final round, Alpha stepped in and caddied for a friend of hers who had made the cut. We stayed and watched the final round. On the final hole, Alpha's player took out a LW for a greenside shot. Alpha talked to her, and suggested she go with a 7i. The Alpha's player switched clubs, and sank a chip-and-run for a birdie.

Edited June 22, 2021 by ChipNRun

[leezer99]

 

 

 

 

[Bizzle80]

On 9/1/2019 at 6:00 PM, leezer99 said:

I learned about a player that grew up playing golf with a very strict dad that really ground on his kid. Kid would shoot great scores but Dad wouldn't mention any of the great shots and only focus on the one bad shot. He went to a top D1 school and is now on tour.

 

...and also hates his dad. I think for every story of "parent pushed super hard and kid is now a pro" there are 100x of that where the kid quit golf/sport and now resents their parents. In SoCal alone we have watched a half dozen really good junior girl golfers quit in the last 18 months from overbearing parents with a few more on the way...

[Bizzle80]

You should all go read the book Range by David Epstein. It kind of dispels the myth of Tiger and this singular focus as the path to greatness. The story of a Tiger Woods is an easy one to tell...but the majority of great athletes actually do the opposite and have played a range of sports. The book makes the case that having a range of expertise is often a better predictor of future success in any field rather than a singular focus.

 

The Tiger/Williams sisters story is sexier but a less likely outcome.

[killer21]

Often joke that the craziest parents raise the best golfers - maybe there is some truth to that. 

[Bizzle80]

On 1/2/2024 at 10:11 AM, killer21 said:

Often joke that the craziest parents raise the best golfers - maybe there is some truth to that. 

 

There is no truth to that and we should discourage that behavior as much as possible. All that does is create flawed and broken human beings - take Tiger as an example. He was most likely going to be a great golfer once introduced to the sport. Elite athlete is going to be an elite athlete. As much as I (we) all love Tiger, the dude was a completely broken human being and most likely a miserable, lonely and severely depressed person which is why he broke so badly. Like a misbehaving child, he was desperately looking for some attention and was openly trying to self-destruct.

 

If you offered me the ability to make my kid the greatest player of all time but being a miserable/depressed/terrible human was part of the deal - I turn that down 100 out of 100 times. If you would even consider that as an option you should rethink your parenting approach.

[Trafford_CC]

I think the Venn diagram of parents who teach their kids in a respective sport AND know how and when to use volume and intensity to recognize an important point and drive it home AND a kid who sincerely loves that sport is incredibly small and possibly non-existent.

 

I say this as a tennis parent who is on the tail end of raising a very successful player and used a lot of intensity and volume in the early years.  I realize now that the things I thought were so important were not all that important.  But boy, was I convinced at the time if we didn't get that toss exactly 6" to the right on that serve (or 1000 other things) we weren't going home that day.  

 

I realize now, that the single most important factor was her absolute love of the game.  And the fact that she wanted it and asked for it, and loved it and still does.  In 13 years she never asked for a day off even when I did.  She schedules herself now and is on court 5 hours a day.  Smiling.  (I had no tennis background).

 

My only real contributions were finding a way for us to hit every single day.  No matter what.  Not letting any financial, weather, work etc related issues get in the way.  And then just feeding ball after ball.  And being so naive, I told her the only thing I saw every elite player doing, "Hit the @#$% out of the ball.  Always finding more pace.  But that's it.  Nothing else.

 

And as she got older, she didn't want to hear Dad's opinions on footwork or shot selection or straight arm FH's.  And she definitely didn't want to hear it loud.  I thank God everyday, I was smart enough to recognize that, and get the heck out of the way.  "Did you have fun today?  You need anything? I love to watch you hit." 

And our relationship not only survived but we have a bond I couldn't be prouder of.  

 

I would never advocate a parent using anger at a kid in sports, especially a sport the parent probably chose.  We just aren't that skilled to do it. 

I lurk on here because I also am now raising a young golfer.  Again, he chose.  And I know next to nothing.  But using these forums and other resources, I'm getting there, so THANKS!

 

But this time, I'm doing it much calmer from the beginning.  But I'm still definitely telling him to hit the @#$% out of it.  Golf or tennis that's just the price of admission.  

Edited January 14 by Trafford_CC
Paragraphs!

[mshills]

6 hours ago, Trafford_CC said:

I think the Venn diagram of parents who teach their kids in a respective sport AND know how and when to use volume and intensity to recognize an important point and drive it home AND a kid who sincerely loves that sport is incredibly small and possibly non-existent.

 

I say this as a tennis parent who is on the tail end of raising a very successful player and used a lot of intensity and volume in the early years.  I realize now that the things I thought were so important were not all that important.  But boy, was I convinced at the time if we didn't get that toss exactly 6" to the right on that serve (or 1000 other things) we weren't going home that day.  

 

I realize now, that the single most important factor was her absolute love of the game.  And the fact that she wanted it and asked for it, and loved it and still does.  In 13 years she never asked for a day off even when I did.  She schedules herself now and is on court 5 hours a day.  Smiling.  (I had no tennis background).

 

My only real contributions were finding a way for us to hit every single day.  No matter what.  Not letting any financial, weather, work etc related issues get in the way.  And then just feeding ball after ball.  And being so naive, I told her the only thing I saw every elite player doing, "Hit the @#$% out of the ball.  Always finding more pace.  But that's it.  Nothing else.

 

And as she got older, she didn't want to hear Dad's opinions on footwork or shot selection or straight arm FH's.  And she definitely didn't want to hear it loud.  I thank God everyday, I was smart enough to recognize that, and get the heck out of the way.  "Did you have fun today?  You need anything? I love to watch you hit." 

And our relationship not only survived but we have a bond I couldn't be prouder of.  

 

I would never advocate a parent using anger at a kid in sports, especially a sport the parent probably chose.  We just aren't that skilled to do it. 

I lurk on here because I also am now raising a young golfer.  Again, he chose.  And I know next to nothing.  But using these forums and other resources, I'm getting there, so THANKS!

 

But this time, I'm doing it much calmer from the beginning.  But I'm still definitely telling him to hit the @#$% out of it.  Golf or tennis that's just the price of admission.  

This is on point. Son #2 is not a golfer….he’s an accomplished athlete in what might be the most high-commitment / sacrifice sport. (Hint: combat sport.) It lends itself to lots of intensity and volume and so-called “toughness” from Dad. 
 

That is not the way.  Coaches coach. Parents parent.

 

My role is commitment, attitude, and holding him back just enough so he does not burn out. The sport is hard. Incredibly hard. You have to be built different to commit to it. Good coaches provide the fire to unlock something in kids who have it, but a parent who thinks he can program it or mandate it is delusional. 

[MB19]

On 1/2/2024 at 1:11 PM, killer21 said:

Often joke that the craziest parents raise the best golfers - maybe there is some truth to that. 

Crazy parents in every sport.  My money is on tennis parents, if you're going to hold a gun to my head.

 

No offense to Trafford_CC, as I read his post after I typed this.  The first-account Mary Pierce father stories I have heard--wow!

Edited January 15 by MB19
clarity

[Trafford_CC]

2 hours ago, MB19 said:

Crazy parents in every sport.  My money is on tennis parents, if you're going to hold a gun to my head.

 

No offense to Trafford_CC, as I read his post after I typed this.  The first-account Mary Pierce father stories I have heard--wow!

None taken. Actually in my experience, baseball, football have both been worse than tennis. There are just a few huge nuts that everyone knows about in tennis. 

[Dpavs]

21 hours ago, mshills said:

"Coaches coach. Parents parent."

 

 

 

 

You keep up that kind of crazy talk and the next thing you will be saying is that teachers should only educate\teach.

[MB19]

7 hours ago, Trafford_CC said:

None taken. Actually in my experience, baseball, football have both been worse than tennis. There are just a few huge nuts that everyone knows about in tennis. 

I've seen them in all sports.

 

Girls LAX here has been right up there with baseball and basketball parents, or worse, in my area.

[st1800e]

What's the key to getting kids into the game?

Johnny Miller: The key is to encourage them. My dad said the secret of getting kids to get good is that you want to compliment them, not fake compliments but tell them that you’re improving, this is what we’ve got to do to get to the next level, you’re doing great, I’m really proud of you, and then every once in a while throw in a little bit of, not criticism, but got to make a few changes, you’ve got to make a change here but then add more compliments.

A lot of parents just look at the negative things they’re doing instead of trying to accentuate the positive. I take people out to my ranches after I finish them and show them around and say, “What did you think of the ranch?” and they say, “Those are the biggest cow turds I’ve ever seen in my life.” That’s what some people see. They just see the cow turds, including with their kids. I’ll say, “You really need to focus on the good parts of every person and sort of develop those things.” And just love them; that’s the main thing.

[_chris]

I've been coaching sports for 16 years on the rec level and only more recently for middle school/HS. That said, I don't think I am a very effective coach. I have always focused on the kids having fun and making sure they go home remembering that I was proud of them. And I will say that I am not always the most skilled in teaching fundamentals or skills. I currently have a rec soccer league with 75% of the players on my team having been with me for at least two seasons. They average 11 years old. Almost every parent tells me that their boys love me. That means an enormous amount to me. I have one kid who cries when we lose(most times). He is the best on the team by far. I feel badly, like I've let him down. I hope all the kids I've coached, including my own, remember that we had fun first. 

Edited March 6 by _chris

[AC168]

For golf, I don’t think anger is very helpful beyond the short term.  I won’t say who this is but one of my female relatives likes to yell at her kid.  Pretty much everything gets better in the short-run, and her kid quits every thing in the long run.

[kiawah]

 

This was a favorite of my college team's on the van ride to tournaments. I think that when parents yell at their kids they think they sound like Nick Saban. Really, they sound more like this