Another golf myth? Bent right elbow for more power.

[Hackinator]

I am starting to believe the bent right elbow is actually a power reducer because it reduces the arc.

Maintaining a bent right elbow until late in the downswing seems pretty dicey and if timed perfect maybe it does work, but is a dicey proposition.

 

At the very start of the downswing I am now straightening the right arm and creating a wide arc , I think the right arm straightening forces my left arm to straighten as well .

So I am I crazy.. should I be straightening my right arm early in the downswing?

Again, I am finding I am hitting it further this way.

 

 

[Unteachable]

Im not sure about the down swing, but i seem to hit the ball way better with the driver when i try to feel like my right arm stays straight for as long as i can on the way back. I guess it helps sync me up better. The downswing is so quick I dont even feel like I could straighten it faster if i tried

[Fireballer]

Theres a great thread on here where iteach explains the importance of the trail elbow straightening as soon as possible. Posts 15 and 16 are the nuggets.

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1102099/some-ideas-about-the-trail-arm-straightening/p1

[glk]

Another good take on right arm. Or just do Justin rose.

[MK7Golf21]

You want some bend at impact and straightening through the shot.

[Ghost of Snead]

> @Hackinator said:

> I am starting to believe the bent right elbow is actually a power reducer because it reduces the arc.

> Maintaining a bent right elbow until late in the downswing seems pretty dicey and if timed perfect maybe it does work, but is a dicey proposition.

>

> At the very start of the downswing I am now straightening the right arm and creating a wide arc , I think the right arm straightening forces my left arm to straighten as well .

> So I am I crazy.. should I be straightening my right arm early in the downswing?

> Again, I am finding I am hitting it further this way.

>

>

Not sure it's a power reducer as Phil has always had plenty of distance straightening later in the downswing but straightening sooner eliminates the need to dump the club closer to impact.

 

[Hackinator]

> @glk said:

> Another good take on right arm. Or just do Justin rose.

 

Thanks.. this helps!!

[Hackinator]

> @"Ghost of Snead" said:

> > @Hackinator said:

> > I am starting to believe the bent right elbow is actually a power reducer because it reduces the arc.

> > Maintaining a bent right elbow until late in the downswing seems pretty dicey and if timed perfect maybe it does work, but is a dicey proposition.

> >

> > At the very start of the downswing I am now straightening the right arm and creating a wide arc , I think the right arm straightening forces my left arm to straighten as well .

> > So I am I crazy.. should I be straightening my right arm early in the downswing?

> > Again, I am finding I am hitting it further this way.

> >

> >

> Not sure it's a power reducer as Phil has always had plenty of distance straightening later in the downswing but straightening sooner eliminates the need to dump the club closer to impact.

>

That's true, you feel like you have to dump the club at the last instant if you keep the right arm bent for too long.

 

 

[David C]

Bent right elbow allows you to swing or throw any object faster by reducing the radius. Best to achieve it through pivoting and swinging your arms better whilst extending the right arm; and not holding it rigid through muscle contraction.

[Hackinator]

 

> @"David C" said:

> Bent right elbow allows you to swing or throw any object faster by reducing the radius. Best to achieve it through pivoting and swinging your arms better whilst extending the right arm; and not holding it rigid through muscle contraction.

 

Right, but a lot of instruction will tell you to maintain about 90 degree angle ( in the elbow right until close to impact.

 

Also, trying to achieve a 90 deg angle will cause many amateurs to lose the width in the right arm mainly because they are not extending the arm, while getting the bend.

 

I was looking at videos of pga pros, and some do keep that elbow bent for a long time, but most of them are straightening earlier. Not an expert, but in my layman's observation most of the pros are straightening the right arm earlier than you might believe.

 

[J13]

> @Fireballer said:

> Theres a great thread on here where iteach explains the importance of the trail elbow straightening as soon as possible. Posts 15 and 16 are the nuggets.

> https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1102099/some-ideas-about-the-trail-arm-straightening/p1

 

But he's not saying it should be straight at the start of the downswing. He's saying the straightening is happening because of shoulders stalling out (not a good thing for consistency/golf). There should be some slight elbow bend in the rear arm just before impact then extension through the ball.

 

OP if you post a video I think it would be more clear about what exactly you mean when you say you are straightening your arms.

[Hackinator]

> @J13 said:

> > @Fireballer said:

> > Theres a great thread on here where iteach explains the importance of the trail elbow straightening as soon as possible. Posts 15 and 16 are the nuggets.

> > https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1102099/some-ideas-about-the-trail-arm-straightening/p1

>

> But he's not saying it should be straight at the start of the downswing. He's saying the straightening is happening because of shoulders stalling out (not a good thing for consistency/golf). There should be some slight elbow bend in the rear arm just before impact then extension through the ball.

>

> OP if you post a video I think it would be more clear about what exactly you mean when you say you are straightening your arms.

 

My feeling is I am straightening the right arm pretty early in the downswing. MUCH earlier than I used to. Also the back shoulder is "staying back" a split second more to allow the straightening and also allowing the arms to drop.

 

I was looking at the mirror with the old swing, and noticed there was very little width in my arms, so this is what I am trying to fix.

 

 

[Fireballer]

> @J13 said:

> > @Fireballer said:

> > Theres a great thread on here where iteach explains the importance of the trail elbow straightening as soon as possible. Posts 15 and 16 are the nuggets.

> > https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1102099/some-ideas-about-the-trail-arm-straightening/p1

>

> But he's not saying it should be straight at the start of the downswing. He's saying the straightening is happening because of shoulders stalling out (not a good thing for consistency/golf). There should be some slight elbow bend in the rear arm just before impact then extension through the ball.

Nobody is saying to have a straight trail arm or stall the shoulders. If you pivot correctly, you can try till the cows come home, and not have a straight arm. Just because straightening of the trail arm is the intent, does not mean its the result.

 

 

[ferrispgm]

A bent right arm is purely dependent on your physical makeup and not something you have to have. Some people with long arms and shorter stature will have a bunch....Others like me who are tall and have shorter arms will have much less. If I tried to have a bunch of arm bend my back would give out eventually as I would also need an excessive amount of right side bend to reach the ball.

[glk]

Tour average at impact is 138*. But it can look like a lot more. Yet another video illusion.

[David C]

> @Hackinator said:

>

> > @"David C" said:

> > Bent right elbow allows you to swing or throw any object faster by reducing the radius. Best to achieve it through pivoting and swinging your arms better whilst extending the right arm; and not holding it rigid through muscle contraction.

>

> Right, but a lot of instruction will tell you to maintain about 90 degree angle ( in the elbow right until close to impact.

>

> Also, trying to achieve a 90 deg angle will cause many amateurs to lose the width in the right arm mainly because they are not extending the arm, while getting the bend.

>

> I was looking at videos of pga pros, and some do keep that elbow bent for a long time, but most of them are straightening earlier. Not an expert, but in my layman's observation most of the pros are straightening the right arm earlier than you might believe.

>

 

90 degrees? Who has said that? It’s not about forcing it in my opinion, it’s about achieving a bent right elbow. Because if one is present it’s a sign other things worked well.

[David C]

> @ferrispgm said:

> A bent right arm is purely dependent on your physical makeup and not something you have to have. Some people with long arms and shorter stature will have a bunch....Others like me who are tall and have shorter arms will have much less. If I tried to have a bunch of arm bend my back would give out eventually as I would also need an excessive amount of right side bend to reach the ball.

 

 

Not true at all. People don’t have such wildly different proportions in upper and lower arm length + torso and leg length. And even so, the more open you get, more your right shoulder gets through, with normal leg flexing, geometry says the right arm had to be bent. It’s garbage the long arm thing. Especially as if you are long armed then you will probably have flatter lie angles. I think the whole deal with the arm length thing is that people are trying to force themselves into this position by holding it with their arms, and simply do not buy into the fact that a better pivot, being more open, perhaps bein more flexible and athletic creates it. People don’t want to hear it. Saying it is a body proportion thing is just an reasonable sounding, effective sounding way of getting people to stop doing something really hurtful to their games.

 

Even Ben Hogan, whom I suspect many people try to copy his bent right arm, and whom people say ‘well he had really long arms’ said not to force this position.

 

His pivot speed and getting open are probably just as alien to the average golfer as his super long arms.

[MonteScheinblum]

The 90* guideline is the top of the swing so you don’t over bend it. No one says 90* downswing.

[TMoakley1547]

Could the intent to straighten the trail arm sooner in the downswing help those who pin their lead arm across their chest in the downswing? And also get hands more forward and shoulders more open at impact?

[smashdn]

Don;t you need it bent on the downswing to create lag? I try to feel like I am pulling the right elbow to my right hip then releasing the club past the bottom of the arc.

 

I would think true, a wider arc produces more speed than a narrower one, but that it is not as much speed as what is created by the hands/wrists getting to near full extension just past impact.

[MonteScheinblum]

> @smashdn said:

> Don;t you need it bent on the downswing to create lag? I try to feel like I am pulling the right elbow to my right hip then releasing the club past the bottom of the arc.

>

> I would think true, a wider arc produces more speed than a narrower one, but that it is not as much speed as what is created by the hands/wrists getting to near full extension just past impact.

 

> @smashdn said:

> Don;t you need it bent on the downswing to create lag? I try to feel like I am pulling the right elbow to my right hip then releasing the club past the bottom of the arc.

>

> I would think true, a wider arc produces more speed than a narrower one, but that it is not as much speed as what is created by the hands/wrists getting to near full extension just past impact.

 

No

 

 

[musclefront]

Straighten right arm not right wrist on downswing while turning.

[Gamble Gamble]

> @Hackinator said:

> I am starting to believe the bent right elbow is actually a power reducer because it reduces the arc.

> Maintaining a bent right elbow until late in the downswing seems pretty dicey and if timed perfect maybe it does work, but is a dicey proposition.

>

> At the very start of the downswing I am now straightening the right arm and creating a wide arc , I think the right arm straightening forces my left arm to straighten as well .

> So I am I crazy.. should I be straightening my right arm early in the downswing?

> Again, I am finding I am hitting it further this way.

>

>

 

Usually having a straight Arm at impact is a sign of the shoulders stalling and the person throwing their arms at the ball to actually make contact.

 

Also, in regards to speed, having the arms fully extended would leave less leverage for acceleration through the ball.

[wkuo3]

Tour arm fold and unfold because of relative distance between your hands and the core changes with the rotation.

because the hands and the arms turn more than the core, for the right handed golfer the right elbow must fold /bend more than the left on the take away and to the top position. naturally reverse this passing the impact to the follow up position. If we want to reach the top position, we must have a shorter right side then the left.

There is no myth about it if you're built the same way as all of the mortal human beings.

Same thing with swinging a baseball bat, Would you consciously bend your elbow to allow the swing motion or do you swing the baseball bat with rms straight all the time ?

Keeping the right elbow in the bend position as long as the motion allows, is to store the energy until you unleash it .

Since we all played baseball at one time or the other, the right hand kind of like the pitcher's throwing arm. You'll never see a straight arm back and through while a pitcher throws a baseball.

The bending of the arm / folding of the elbow, should be a move that's happening naturally with the golf swing , hitting a target with a stick.

We should be mindful of moving the club head back and return it to the golf ball. In between, we'll figure out a way to create the maximum momentum our body allows to propel the golf ball as far as we could, while not messing up our body.

 

 

 

[smashdn]

> @MonteScheinblum said:

> > @smashdn said:

> > Don;t you need it bent on the downswing to create lag? I try to feel like I am pulling the right elbow to my right hip then releasing the club past the bottom of the arc.

> >

> > I would think true, a wider arc produces more speed than a narrower one, but that it is not as much speed as what is created by the hands/wrists getting to near full extension just past impact.

>

> > @smashdn said:

> > Don;t you need it bent on the downswing to create lag? I try to feel like I am pulling the right elbow to my right hip then releasing the club past the bottom of the arc.

> >

> > I would think true, a wider arc produces more speed than a narrower one, but that it is not as much speed as what is created by the hands/wrists getting to near full extension just past impact.

>

> No

>

>

 

So Hogan was wrong in trying to connect the right elbow to the right hip?

 

 

[Hackinator]

> @smashdn said:

> > @MonteScheinblum said:

> > > @smashdn said:

> > > Don;t you need it bent on the downswing to create lag? I try to feel like I am pulling the right elbow to my right hip then releasing the club past the bottom of the arc.

> > >

> > > I would think true, a wider arc produces more speed than a narrower one, but that it is not as much speed as what is created by the hands/wrists getting to near full extension just past impact.

> >

> > > @smashdn said:

> > > Don;t you need it bent on the downswing to create lag? I try to feel like I am pulling the right elbow to my right hip then releasing the club past the bottom of the arc.

> > >

> > > I would think true, a wider arc produces more speed than a narrower one, but that it is not as much speed as what is created by the hands/wrists getting to near full extension just past impact.

> >

> > No

> >

> >

>

> So Hogan was wrong in trying to connect the right elbow to the right hip?

>

>

>

 

In his demo, he right elbow is glued to his side which makes you believe that is what the right elbow should do.

But when he swings his real swing , his elbow is nothing like it was in his demo.

 

My main question is "WHEN" should the right elbow start to straighten.

When I have started straightening it from the top, instead of waiting, I feel my striking is much better.

 

 

 

[smashdn]

If your left arm is straight, how are you able to straighten your right elbow any at or near the top? Wouldn't all of your movement be confined to your wrists? Seems as though at the top the choice is bent elbow more under the club (both elbows relatively close together) or let the right one fly out behind you a bit and the right arm is flatter as compared to more up and down.

 

I'm not arguing I just need help visualizing this. Like I said in my post up above, I try to feel like I keep my right elbow pulled down to my right hip and the club head laid back behind my back a bit. I don't have a down the line shot of Hogan but he dropped the clubhead back behind him into that spot. I fought a hook so I looked to him and his methods to tame mine. Thus far it has worked well. I am still in the middle of developing the habits and the consistency in ball flight however.

[glk]

Starts during or shortly after transition. One example.

[Zitlow]

If you lock your right elbow to your right side then your club head speed is limited.

[cardoustie]

All I know, as a lower capper, from a video lesson with @iteach, I had way too much right arm bend coming down

Dan showed me side by sides with pro's and their right arms were incredibly straighter than mine halfway down, eye opener for sure

I am playing near the best golf of my life this season by "releasing the right side angles" as fast as I can from the top ... Nicklaus used to speak of this

Turn to the top, leave right shoulder where it is and fire arms and hands hard targetwards, YMMV of course

For me .. holding the lag, hitting down swing thoughts etc are DEATH moves